Quick-what do I tell my sons?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 566
transform,
What great input you have here. I don't really have anything to add except that it sounds like you did a wonderful job of responding to your kids--they are so fortunate to have you showing up for them!
Cheering for you,
posie
What great input you have here. I don't really have anything to add except that it sounds like you did a wonderful job of responding to your kids--they are so fortunate to have you showing up for them!
Cheering for you,
posie
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Wizard Land Downunder
Posts: 2,615
If my knee wasn't so painful, and I knew I would get up again....I would be on knees thanking God that I was NOT burdened with having to care for my girls and go out to work to feed, clothe and house them, AND cope with a selfish and poor excuse for a father as well.
I admire those single parents who carry the can for an ex partner, who drinks their life away, and treats visitation as a "when I feel like it" proposition. I have seen the "working mum", put all she has into her kids, and luxuries like feet up during the day are non-existant.
Believe me, a mum or dad, who takes time off work to attend school events is appreciated by the kids, as is the parent who, unable to keep employment that gives flexibility for kids, leaves and goes into something new, scary and strange.
Transform...you managed to get your work done, and take kids to the swim meet, grab pizza and home to chomp it down and the kids are happy as it turned out.
Better than stuck with a smelly, garbled and drinking dad, or dumped by him for a chance to try out a barstool or two, instead of being with them.
How about telling him that, if he grows up and matures into a man, and can go for more than an hour without guggling alcohol down his throat....you will look at visitation with the boys, but til then he can do what he obviously wants to do....drink til he drops.
Friend from Alanon said she cried when her son finally refused to go on visitation and was mad at both drunk dad and his mum. Kid wanted to know why he had to see dad? Told "you needed him in your life", and he yelled, "For what, you didn't want him in yours, wouldn't let him in the house, so why make me see him when I hated it?"
I don't honestly know a long term answer to this, other than a bullet....and that's out.
I hope it sure gets easier for you, and you can sort it.
God bless
I admire those single parents who carry the can for an ex partner, who drinks their life away, and treats visitation as a "when I feel like it" proposition. I have seen the "working mum", put all she has into her kids, and luxuries like feet up during the day are non-existant.
Believe me, a mum or dad, who takes time off work to attend school events is appreciated by the kids, as is the parent who, unable to keep employment that gives flexibility for kids, leaves and goes into something new, scary and strange.
Transform...you managed to get your work done, and take kids to the swim meet, grab pizza and home to chomp it down and the kids are happy as it turned out.
Better than stuck with a smelly, garbled and drinking dad, or dumped by him for a chance to try out a barstool or two, instead of being with them.
How about telling him that, if he grows up and matures into a man, and can go for more than an hour without guggling alcohol down his throat....you will look at visitation with the boys, but til then he can do what he obviously wants to do....drink til he drops.
Friend from Alanon said she cried when her son finally refused to go on visitation and was mad at both drunk dad and his mum. Kid wanted to know why he had to see dad? Told "you needed him in your life", and he yelled, "For what, you didn't want him in yours, wouldn't let him in the house, so why make me see him when I hated it?"
I don't honestly know a long term answer to this, other than a bullet....and that's out.
I hope it sure gets easier for you, and you can sort it.
God bless
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,335
Quote:
Originally Posted by hello-kitty
Dad's drunk and mom's working. It's so sad when neither parent has the time to take care of their children.
I feel for your boys. I hope they don't take it too personally.
That seems a little unfair.
Originally Posted by hello-kitty
Dad's drunk and mom's working. It's so sad when neither parent has the time to take care of their children.
I feel for your boys. I hope they don't take it too personally.
That seems a little unfair.
So maybe you are reading a little too much into what I wrote. I know what I'm talking about and it comes from personal experience. In the end, it's the kids that matter.
Take what you want and leave the rest.
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
It's easy to say what an a$$ he is and curse him etc but when it comes down to it, focusing on his behavior and being angry about it is a waste of our precious energy. It is best to accept reality for what it is (he is an alcoholic and likely was an alcoholic when you decided to have children with him) and own our side of the street (reach out for help with how to handle this situation, just like you did T). It is good that we have eachother to talk about our frustrations and share our viewpoints.
I Love Who I Am
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,210
Aw Jadmack, you're such a gem. I hope your foot is doing better.
Jen
My AH totally loves his boys in the best ways he knows how.
Thank you for sharing the mixed bag of having an A father for your chldren. To be fair, I can't remember the last time this has happened. AH has been working 16 days straight, and still picked them up every day I wanted so I can work. It's on me to be surprised that he bailed drunk. The guys an alcoholic! What did I expect. He can't take too much stress or he HAS to go drink. It's bizarre, like he's impaired in some way.
And he IS a good dad, in his own way. The kids love him. But he's not the kind of dad I ideally want for my kids. He's not consistent. Example: He said he would take our oldest running, hasn't happened. I"m not perfect either, but to me that means I need a dad for those guys or a partner that makes up for my failures, and vice versa. But what do I know about relationships? Not much, except that guy at the pool last night isn't an alcoholic.
Thanks to everyone for the support and stories. So many great things here
Thumper I love this! What a great attitude toward childhood and play. Thank you! Anvil I did too. My parents hated us, made that clear much of the time. it sucked. I have to work extra hard to not let Mommy Dearest poke her ugly head out. Thank you for reminding me to not pass that one on down to my kids..
He's coming to get them now for the night. I;ve already explained I'll be stopping by (he lives very close) and if he's drunk it'll be the last time he takes them, that he'll need a lawyer.
I think I"m being realistic. He has recently been able to keep his drinking separate from them, but as we all know this is a progressive disease and he either gets sober or it gets worse. I sent him an email last night that was very clear but not very nice. He kept calling.
That made me feel better, even if it falls on deaf ears.
Jen
Their father feels incredible love for them, and they love him just as a child does love their father. His love for them, however, does not appear to translate into consistently putting aside his wants and needs to give them time, especially when it comes to alcohol/socializing. he has canceled 8 out of the last 10 unsupervised Saturday visitations. yet I know he loves them
Thank you for sharing the mixed bag of having an A father for your chldren. To be fair, I can't remember the last time this has happened. AH has been working 16 days straight, and still picked them up every day I wanted so I can work. It's on me to be surprised that he bailed drunk. The guys an alcoholic! What did I expect. He can't take too much stress or he HAS to go drink. It's bizarre, like he's impaired in some way.
And he IS a good dad, in his own way. The kids love him. But he's not the kind of dad I ideally want for my kids. He's not consistent. Example: He said he would take our oldest running, hasn't happened. I"m not perfect either, but to me that means I need a dad for those guys or a partner that makes up for my failures, and vice versa. But what do I know about relationships? Not much, except that guy at the pool last night isn't an alcoholic.
Thanks to everyone for the support and stories. So many great things here
Thumper I love this! What a great attitude toward childhood and play. Thank you!
Picnic in the yard, slumber party in the living room, cooking something together, some weird craft project you rarely do. My kids are happy to put baking soda in vinegar and every other damn thing in the kitchen half the night, lol.
just try not to let it come across like they are in the way or a pain....i grew up feeling that way, like just being there i was a HUGE inconvenience and ANYTHING was more important.
He's coming to get them now for the night. I;ve already explained I'll be stopping by (he lives very close) and if he's drunk it'll be the last time he takes them, that he'll need a lawyer.
I think I"m being realistic. He has recently been able to keep his drinking separate from them, but as we all know this is a progressive disease and he either gets sober or it gets worse. I sent him an email last night that was very clear but not very nice. He kept calling.
I am furious about what happened tonight and I do not want to engage. I know better than to try to talk to you about your drinking, I was stupid enough to do it for a long time. You will only deny, blame me, twist things around, minimize or agree to do what I want for a little while until the heat is off then resume the massive drinking.
I will figure out and create boundaries I"m comfortable with.
I will figure out and create boundaries I"m comfortable with.
I Love Who I Am
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,210
Hey LTD, I didn't even see that this next page and your post, but it's true. I had a solar flare of anger, but for the most part have absolute acceptance of what I can and cant expect from him. Ultimately we have a pretty good relationship, mainly because I am detached and take care of me and the kids.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: minneapolis, mn
Posts: 2,762
transform,
console yourself, and buoy up yourself, with this:
according to Daniel J. Siegel, author of "The Developing Mind", boys "learn" love from their mothers, discipline from their fathers. (The reverse is true for girls.)
In light of this, your sons are going to be more stable in the giving and receiving love, department, and be able to nurture their own children, far better than if you were the absentee parent. Now, if this statement is true, they may have a tough time in the work ethic, responsibility, etc. department, but if I had to choose, I'd choose Love any day. Keep givin it to them.
console yourself, and buoy up yourself, with this:
according to Daniel J. Siegel, author of "The Developing Mind", boys "learn" love from their mothers, discipline from their fathers. (The reverse is true for girls.)
In light of this, your sons are going to be more stable in the giving and receiving love, department, and be able to nurture their own children, far better than if you were the absentee parent. Now, if this statement is true, they may have a tough time in the work ethic, responsibility, etc. department, but if I had to choose, I'd choose Love any day. Keep givin it to them.
I Love Who I Am
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,210
Thanks CD, that means I'm TOTALLY SCREWED if girls learn love from their fathers! No wonder I picked a raging alcoholic..
But it does encourage me to be MORE loving to those little guys. I know I totally screwed up my 25 year old, before I emerged out of an unconscious, reactionary state. Even though he says I didn't.
The kids are with their now-sober dad, who groveled and tiptoed around and respected my boundaries today. I happy cashier lady-ed him, am feeling much better, thanks to all you FANTASTIC friends here...Thank you~!
But it does encourage me to be MORE loving to those little guys. I know I totally screwed up my 25 year old, before I emerged out of an unconscious, reactionary state. Even though he says I didn't.
The kids are with their now-sober dad, who groveled and tiptoed around and respected my boundaries today. I happy cashier lady-ed him, am feeling much better, thanks to all you FANTASTIC friends here...Thank you~!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: minneapolis, mn
Posts: 2,762
Originally Posted by transformyself 
Thanks CD, that means I'm TOTALLY SCREWED if girls learn love from their fathers! No wonder I picked a raging alcoholic..
It's classic.
That's why I'm buying into it. First, it's logical. We would learn how to relate to a member of the opposite sex, by our first primary relationship with a member of the opposite sex. Second, haven't we seen all our lives, young women who become promiscuous and needy, who have not had a loving relationship with their own fathers? Yep.
It's certainly not meant to make you feel bad. Only to move forward with awareness of how crucial it is.
aboutdone
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: midwest
Posts: 191
Transform, I know this is a little late and won't do much good now, but I can't resist offering up some of the best advice I ever received from a dear friend of mine.
Never lie to the children. Never sugarcoat. Never cover for the absent parent regardless if they are addicted or not.
This may not work for everyone, but it works well for me.
If Ex was to call to cancel, I would ask say ok, hold on a minute, and put child on the phone with him. Let the ex tell the child why he won't be there.
It is not our job to relay, defend, or explain why the absent person is absent. If putting the child on the phone isn't an option, and the child asks "I thought Daddy was coming, why isn't he coming?" I would say, "Thats a good question. I can't really answer that question, and the best person to ask would be your Dad (or Mom), the next time you talk to them."
Always, Always, Always, turn the table to your favor.
The above scenarios work. You are not lying at all. Even if the absent parent, said they couldn't come because of X,Y or Z, and here is why. I am not that person. I do not really know why they made the decision why X,Y or Z was more important than my child and since I don't really know what all went into that decision, I can't possibly try to explain it to my child, nor should I have to.
And, if you were to try to, it could only backfire on you. Perhaps you tell the child that Daddy was called into work. Then later in conversation it comes up in front of child that Daddy wasn't at work. Who looks to be the liar? Even though you really were trying to protect your childs feelings, or protect them from the ugly truth.
Or perhaps you give them the straight up truth. Daddy isn't coming because he decided to get drunk and per our agreement he isn't allowed to see you that way. Then they ask Dad later why he got drunk, and Dad lies and says he wasn't drunk. Child has no proof of it, didn't see it, only has your word against Dad, and is now not sure who to trust.
"I'm not really sure" is always a good response when in doubt. It is very tough dealing with children who are stuck in the middle. Stating you aren't really sure isn't lying. It also isn't covering up for the absent parent.
Anytime you can, position it so the child has to form their own opinion about the absent parent.
Now, I realize that we all want our children to know that Mom and Dad love them very much. In fact, I was court ordered to a parenting children of divorce meeting before the judge would grant both of my divorces. In this group, they strongly suggest that BOTH parents let the children know that they are loved. I completely agree with this, if BOTH parents are being mature, and can BOTH express this to the children. However in our cases, usually the absent parent is more in love with their addiction than anything else, so it is near impossible to expect them to hold up their end on this.
You have received a lot of good advice on here. This is just my take on it. I always wanted my children to have a full time Dad, even when it became obvious divorce was the only choice I had left, I wanted my children to see their Dad as the good guy. The fact of the matter is.....sometimes he is....sometimes he is not. Regardless it is not my problem.
Its been my experience in the past, that when I tried to cover for him, it only made me look to be the bad guy. He would still show up at the next visitation and everything was wonderful, and the kids thought Disney Daddy was great, and he never, ever, ever had to pay the price for hurting his children. I was always the one having to hurt the children's feelings letting them know Dad wasn't coming because of X,Y and Z. I was the one who took the brunt of their disappointment. It wasn't fair to me, and it wasn't fair to our children.
Now, he rarely calls to say he can't take the kids for whatever reason, because I will straight put the 6 year old on the phone, heck, I will just hand it to her to answer. Since I put the ball back into his court, he has to be the one to hurt her feelings directly, and that pretty much stopped the BS with the younger 2 and visitation.
Now, when it comes to the 16yo she flat out refuses to talk to him anymore because of all his crap he has pulled in the last 6 months. She didn't even call him, to say Happy Fathers Day. She got up and walked out of the room when he dropped the younger 2 off, and as far as I am concerned he did it to himself. He has tried to talk to me about it a couple of times, and I just tell him I can't make her change the way she feels about him. That is up to him.
Never lie to the children. Never sugarcoat. Never cover for the absent parent regardless if they are addicted or not.
This may not work for everyone, but it works well for me.
If Ex was to call to cancel, I would ask say ok, hold on a minute, and put child on the phone with him. Let the ex tell the child why he won't be there.
It is not our job to relay, defend, or explain why the absent person is absent. If putting the child on the phone isn't an option, and the child asks "I thought Daddy was coming, why isn't he coming?" I would say, "Thats a good question. I can't really answer that question, and the best person to ask would be your Dad (or Mom), the next time you talk to them."
Always, Always, Always, turn the table to your favor.
The above scenarios work. You are not lying at all. Even if the absent parent, said they couldn't come because of X,Y or Z, and here is why. I am not that person. I do not really know why they made the decision why X,Y or Z was more important than my child and since I don't really know what all went into that decision, I can't possibly try to explain it to my child, nor should I have to.
And, if you were to try to, it could only backfire on you. Perhaps you tell the child that Daddy was called into work. Then later in conversation it comes up in front of child that Daddy wasn't at work. Who looks to be the liar? Even though you really were trying to protect your childs feelings, or protect them from the ugly truth.
Or perhaps you give them the straight up truth. Daddy isn't coming because he decided to get drunk and per our agreement he isn't allowed to see you that way. Then they ask Dad later why he got drunk, and Dad lies and says he wasn't drunk. Child has no proof of it, didn't see it, only has your word against Dad, and is now not sure who to trust.
"I'm not really sure" is always a good response when in doubt. It is very tough dealing with children who are stuck in the middle. Stating you aren't really sure isn't lying. It also isn't covering up for the absent parent.
Anytime you can, position it so the child has to form their own opinion about the absent parent.
Now, I realize that we all want our children to know that Mom and Dad love them very much. In fact, I was court ordered to a parenting children of divorce meeting before the judge would grant both of my divorces. In this group, they strongly suggest that BOTH parents let the children know that they are loved. I completely agree with this, if BOTH parents are being mature, and can BOTH express this to the children. However in our cases, usually the absent parent is more in love with their addiction than anything else, so it is near impossible to expect them to hold up their end on this.
You have received a lot of good advice on here. This is just my take on it. I always wanted my children to have a full time Dad, even when it became obvious divorce was the only choice I had left, I wanted my children to see their Dad as the good guy. The fact of the matter is.....sometimes he is....sometimes he is not. Regardless it is not my problem.
Its been my experience in the past, that when I tried to cover for him, it only made me look to be the bad guy. He would still show up at the next visitation and everything was wonderful, and the kids thought Disney Daddy was great, and he never, ever, ever had to pay the price for hurting his children. I was always the one having to hurt the children's feelings letting them know Dad wasn't coming because of X,Y and Z. I was the one who took the brunt of their disappointment. It wasn't fair to me, and it wasn't fair to our children.
Now, he rarely calls to say he can't take the kids for whatever reason, because I will straight put the 6 year old on the phone, heck, I will just hand it to her to answer. Since I put the ball back into his court, he has to be the one to hurt her feelings directly, and that pretty much stopped the BS with the younger 2 and visitation.
Now, when it comes to the 16yo she flat out refuses to talk to him anymore because of all his crap he has pulled in the last 6 months. She didn't even call him, to say Happy Fathers Day. She got up and walked out of the room when he dropped the younger 2 off, and as far as I am concerned he did it to himself. He has tried to talk to me about it a couple of times, and I just tell him I can't make her change the way she feels about him. That is up to him.
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