What BP has to do with my marriage

Old 06-05-2010, 05:06 AM
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What BP has to do with my marriage

AH came home drunk and a PIA last night. Not sure how he did it because we have NO cash whatsoever, and I'm trying to recover from several years of enabling financially, so I am now on a debt-free program and therefore refuse to use my credit cards (he has none in his name). So we're pretty broke at the moment.

So we were watching the Dateline special on the disaster in the Gulf and he brought up an argument that he mentioned last weekend, but when he stated it again, I argued back. He detected anger in my argument this time, so he left the room, saying, Geez, you can never agree with anything I say.

I realized later that the thing that made me angry was this: He feels that because BP's responsibility to its shareholders is profit, they have the right to make profits in any way that can regardless of the ethics or morality of it. This problem in the Gulf according to him is the Government's fault, because they failed to regulate BP properly--if BP got away with what they did, it's the govenment's fault.

I thought was mad because he was supporting unethical, immoral behavior. And I was--but I think I'm really mad because that's exactly how he see's our relationship. ... He's the guy who sees his responsibility as to himself alone--to get what he wants at any cost. My responsibility, according to him, is to regulate him, to reign him in, and if he can't get away with as much as he would like, oh well. If he screws up it's my fault because I should have stopped him. It became like a light switch to me.

This is such total nonsense, and I am reaching that point of making a "decision that's not a decision." Every time I've made a decision in my life it's when it just naturally feels like there's no alternative. After years of confusion, I'm pretty close to that point of clarity about what I need to do.

I'd be a little scared or sad, but right now, I'm just frustrated and angry.
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Old 06-05-2010, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by SoloMio View Post
AH came home drunk and a PIA last night. Not sure how he did it because we have NO cash whatsoever, and because I'm trying to recover from several years of enabling financially, I am now on a debt-free program and therefore refuse to use my credit cards (he has none in his name).
Just wanted to share my experience on how my alcoholic found a resource to fund alcohol. I had removed all credit cards and had limited funds in our joint checking account. My alcoholic leased a small post office box, applied for credit cards in his name, and used his new credit cards like ATM cards to get cash for booze.

Don't forget pawn shops give cash too.
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Old 06-05-2010, 05:44 AM
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He feels that because BP's responsibility to its shareholders is profit, they have the right to make profits in any way that can regardless of the ethics or morality of it. This problem in the Gulf according to him is the Government's fault, because they failed to regulate BP properly--if BP got away with what they did, it's the govenment's fault.
This could be rephrased: "It's your fault I drink because you don't stop me!".

Maybe you should become the libertarian in the relationship and leave him to his own devices...
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Old 06-05-2010, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by SoloMio View Post
He feels that because BP's responsibility to its shareholders is profit, they have the right to make profits in any way that can regardless of the ethics or morality of it. This problem in the Gulf according to him is the Government's fault, because they failed to regulate BP properly--if BP got away with what they did, it's the govenment's fault.
Sounds like a narcissistic leaning sociopath. If I can get away with it it's OK.

I wonder how he's getting away with maintaining his access to alcohol?
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Old 06-05-2010, 06:17 AM
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Yeah if they want somthing bad enough they will find means to the end so to speak. My AW would get access to alcohol that to this day I still do not know how she did it. Also since she lost her license (got a DUI, refused B.A. Test) she would ride a bike, call a taxi, etc. Just to get ahold of something to drink.
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Old 06-05-2010, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by PieRat View Post
Yeah if they want somthing bad enough they will find means to the end so to speak. My AW would get access to alcohol that to this day I still do not know how she did it. Also since she lost her license (got a DUI, refused B.A. Test) she would ride a bike, call a taxi, etc. Just to get ahold of something to drink.
Reminds me of a story a friend of my son told me. The friend worked at a gas station in the town, and he would see a guy riding his lawn mower down the street every day--it was kind of a main street--not much grass to mow! He mentioned it to one of his coworkers, who told him that ever since the guy had his license revoked for DUI, he rode his lawn mower to the liquor store daily.
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Old 06-05-2010, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by SoloMio View Post
Reminds me of a story a friend of my son told me. The friend worked at a gas station in the town, and he would see a guy riding his lawn mower down the street every day--it was kind of a main street--not much grass to mow! He mentioned it to one of his coworkers, who told him that ever since the guy had his license revoked for DUI, he rode his lawn mower to the liquor store daily.
Haha I think every community has one of those characters. There is a small bar near where I work. There is one buy that rides his riding lawn mower there all the time. I am assuming becuase of a DUI, or maybe he just does not have a vehicle.
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Old 06-05-2010, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Pelican View Post
Just wanted to share my experience on how my alcoholic found a resource to fund alcohol. I had removed all credit cards and had limited funds in our joint checking account. My alcoholic leased a small post office box, applied for credit cards in his name, and used his new credit cards like ATM cards to get cash for booze.

Don't forget pawn shops give cash too.
Yeah, and if you're still MARRIED to him, THAT debt is now legally yours, too. Scary! Check your credit reports!
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Old 06-05-2010, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by SoloMio View Post
...but I think I'm really mad because that's exactly how he see's our relationship. ... He's the guy who sees his responsibility as to himself alone--to get what he wants at any cost. My responsibility, according to him, is to regulate him, to reign him in, and if he can't get away with as much as he would like, oh well. If he screws up it's my fault because I should have stopped him. It became like a light switch to me.

Quite an epiphany, I'd say.

CLMI
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Old 06-05-2010, 07:26 AM
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I have known lawn mower riders too - again I think every community!

My xah liked to blame me for not saving him. He was even singing that song in rehab. He probably still is. Then he blamed me for not standing by him. That was the reason he couldn't recover. Oh well.

I spent a lot of money, energy, and years finding ways to hide credit cards, checkbooks, money, talking with banks about allowing him access when his name was not on the account. He always found money. He would take money out of his kids' piggy banks. He was a pretty good golfer so he'd golf on someones team if they'd buy his beer. He sold his truck (without discussing it and with no other vehicle options) so he could buy a golf membership, because he had friends there that would buy his beer. He had a brother that enabled him a lot. He would borrow money from his mother telling her I'd pay her back once xyz money came in - and she'd call 5679 times until I did. I did that for years to protect his mother. Which was stupid. I was protecting him, not his mother. He found friends that would buy for him - yet would always complain that he did not have friends. Which was probably right because I imagine they got sick of always paying. He is a taker, not a giver. He wants favors and drinks but never repays. They find a way. They always find a way.
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Old 06-05-2010, 08:49 AM
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Sounds like he is projecting a lot of self hatred and correspondingly negative world view with his ummm... rhetoric. Narcissist? Operative definition of an active addict. Reality is some much more shade of grey than that. Greed can become systemic and out of control (a sort of lemming effect), but I don't think that is the case here. Most career executives who make it to the top do so because they are balance leaders who actually give a shat, despite media coverage that stigmatized public perception. To butcher Churchill; capitalism is the worst form of market organization, with the exception of all the rest. We have the ability to learn from this and it will be interesting to find out what happened when all this settles. Those images of oil covered birds and sea life should give us all pause for reflection, as we consumers are complicit to the extent we know there is always a risk of something like this happening regardless of every conceivable precaution being taken.
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Old 06-05-2010, 09:06 AM
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Alcoholics will sometimes pick a fight over something trivial just to then have a justification to drink. Quack quack, IMO.
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Old 06-05-2010, 09:16 AM
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Great insight.

Actually, his thought process is consistent and many of the more right leaning amost the population hold exactly the same views. It's the idea that I/we/they can do whatever they like until they are stopped.

And I agree that this is how some people and most corporations act and that is why we have BOUNDARIES. We might call them that on a personal level, but on a larger scale they are called laws and regulations. And all involve consequences when those boundaries are overstepped.

It is, at heart, narcissistic as Jazzman says. And firm boundaries and consequences are what are needed. Have you worked out yours?
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Old 06-05-2010, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by catlovermi View Post
Yeah, and if you're still MARRIED to him, THAT debt is now legally yours, too. Scary! Check your credit reports!
Depends on your state actually.
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Old 06-05-2010, 11:56 AM
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I Respectfully disagree that "most" corporations behave in a way that" that they can do whatever they like until they are stopped". That statment presumes that the intent is immoral, unethical or illegal. It can be tempting to conclude that all corporations are evil and corrupt because of media coverage. The reality is that the vast majority businesses are good corporate citizens that provide meaningful jobs to employees and pay taxes to fund larger community services. There is a sharp distinction between healthy self interest properly alligned with fiduciary responsibility and malignent power mongering. The boyfriend may not be an intellectual, may view the world through an unrealistic ideological filter, but is entitled to his opinion regardless of us going (in my opinion justifiably) Freudian on his underlying motives. Unsubstantiated generalizations tend to be the realm of untreated addicts.
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Old 06-05-2010, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Bolina View Post


It is, at heart, narcissistic as Jazzman says. And firm boundaries and consequences are what are needed. Have you worked out yours?
I'm working on it..

Come to find out he actually got a check and didn't tell me until today of course, after he had a chance to spend some of it.

As I mentioned, I've put "us" on a very strict budget because in spite of the fact I'm a high earner, his irresponsibility and my stupidity in terms of enabling have put us in a very vulnerable place financially. In short, I cosigned not one, not two, not three, but FOUR business and car loans for him since the time he relapsed 6 years ago!!! We went from being on a very upward trajectory to a nosedive in 3-4 years basically.

Well, now I'm absolutely focused on getting rid of debt while he plays King Baby and complains about the discretionary allotment for each of us that we both agreed upon.

To make a long story short, over the past 6 months since I've tried to put our financial lives into some semblance of order, it has become so clear to me that it's foolish to assume that we can be partners in this. Duh. I'm sick of the whining and complaining.

Point being, I have made a decision that I am absolutely simply doing my thing money-wise. If he wants to blow money he gets in one day and has no money for the rest of the month for cigars and alcohol, it's not my problem. Conversely, I no longer expect anything from him. That way I can't be mad. I'm going to split the account on our phone, because we currently are on the same cell phone plan, and if they turn his phone off for nonpayment, oh well.

The only bad thing is, because I cosigned on the loans, I am ultimately responsible for paying them back, which I'm doing. I could arm wrestle him for that money, but what good would it do? Most months he doesn't have it. I'm thinking of cutting my losses that way and chalking it up to my own stupidity in exchange for freedom from the entanglement in the financial part of all this dysfunction.

What would you guys do? Am I still being too enabling? Alternatively, I thought maybe I'll just stop paying those bills and let the house go to foreclosure (the business loans are secured with our house), and save that money for my own future, but I just don't know what would be right in general (in terms of living up to my obligation to the bank) and right for my own well-being.
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Old 06-05-2010, 05:37 PM
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Pay off your portion of the debt you jointly hold. Get him to sign a promisory note to you for the remainder of the balance and let it go. Get a couple lines of credit in your name and pay on time (cellphone, store card, car note, credit card etc) keep a small balance, but pay the vast majority off each month and you'll be fine. If it ends up as a negative item on your credit report you should be able to have it removed by showing them the note and your new lines show you are responsible.. In addition most lenders would ignore those derogatory items with a decent explaination (former mortgage broker here who played it straight). Cut any and every ambilicle cord you have to this guy asap.
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Old 06-06-2010, 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by SoloMio View Post
What would you guys do? Am I still being too enabling?
It's been mentioned here before and I have my own I'm still paying off... "Stupid Tax".

I had to dip into my sons college savings to pay for a lawyer as well as take out a large equity line to write a settlement check. I'll be making monthly payments on my stupid tax until I sell my home. It's all part of the price I have to pay for the choices I made.

IMO you're in damage control mode right now. I would do everything possible to separate all the finances you can then get out of that marriage with the least amount of stupid tax as possible.

And yes, you're enabling. Make it stop.
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Old 06-06-2010, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Jazzman View Post

And yes, you're enabling. Make it stop.
Jazzman, could you please do me a favor and VERY EXPLICITLY tell me how I'm enabling. Not that I don't believe you--it's just that I'm just as deaf to enabling as the alcoholic is to the consequences is to his/her behavior, and I truly do want it to stop. I can't stop unless I have the leverage to get myself out of the rut, which is clear, unambiguous information.

So, it would help if you could play back to me how I am enabling my AH, so that I can keep those words in my head when I start to do it again.

Thanks!
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Old 06-06-2010, 06:40 AM
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What a bunch of lazy a$$es. They lost their license to drive because of DWI and can't just walk? Oh...sorry...am I being judgmental?

Yes, blame becomes a HUGE part of any relationship the alcoholic is in. It is NECESSARY in order for the drinking to continue. The partner to that blame within the relationship dynamic is the other party's GUILT. Our guilt makes us take responsibility for someone else's actions (no matter how bad) and worse, KEEPS us taking responsibility for their bad behavior. It becomes a cycle very quickly and you aren't aware that it is occurring, even though you are an active participant. That is why so many people (especially women) get stuck in physically abusive relationships and keep going back. So, first, I hope you are seeing the blame as it occurs, not accepting responsibility for ANY of his behavior, are stomping out any guilt feeling as it arises, and are able to see this for what it is: ABUSE. Sounds like you are. GOOD FOR YOU!!!

OK, now about this:
could you please do me a favor and VERY EXPLICITLY tell me how I'm enabling. Not that I don't believe you--it's just that I'm just as deaf to enabling as the alcoholic is to the consequences is to his/her behavior, and I truly do want it to stop.
I want to say WOW and THANKS for asking for explicit words how you are enabling because this is often how I feel, that is, that people are trying to explain something that seems obvious to everyone else but I just am not getting it and I need someone to explain it explicitly. Makes me feel not so alone Thanks again.

My answer is, ANYTHING you do that supports the other person to continue to drink or drug is Enabling. It does not have to be something you do consciously. We all have enabled others unknowingly. So, if you are taking care of the finances and he is benefiting from that, your actions are enabling him to continue to drink. Yes, it is difficult to stop because you are 50% vested in the family finances. That's why it sucks to be MARRIED to one of these bozos, because marriage is legally a financial relationship. I like ElegantlyWasted's financial advice above. Do what you have to do to protect yourself financially, and be proactive about it. I know, pain in the a$$ to have to do this (and a lot of work) but it's a necessary evil.

My personal opinion? I hope you can get some distance from this guy. Dead weight keeping your head below water. I'm suffocating just thinking about it and remembering how I used to let these people pull me under to drown me with them.
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