Jazzman

Try to picture yourself having a glass of wine with a very good friend having a very relaxing evening and she confides in you a problem she's having with her 21 year old adult son who still lives at home and she says to you...

Remember you're completely outside this situation with your friend, complete objectivity and clarity. Her comments remind you of that movie Failure to Launch. You think about it for a minute and lean towards your friend and say.... You do WAY too much for him. He's an adult, don't do for him what he should be able to do for himself.

Thumper

I can share, that after many years of trying to make things work, I eventually just did not give him any of my money. I paid everything that had my name on it (and that was every single bill/loan we had except for his school loan) and left the rest to him. That is also when things got pretty interesting with how he came up with money. It was also eye opening and I began, very slowly, to admit that this man was a full blown alcoholic. Denial ran very deep for me.

I did enable him still by...

I'd put gas in his truck so he could provide transportation to the kids and go to this part time job. I was still enabling as that allowed him to spend his money how he wanted and I still took care of his obligations.

I provided a home, all the comforts in it, and all the food he wanted because I needed a home and groceries for my family. Again, he did not have any responsibilities/obligations for the necessities of life. All his money could be spent as he wanted.

I took care of buying the groceries, running the kids to any activities they were in, managing their educational and medical needs, managing their clothing etc, financies, bills, holidays, etc. etc. About all he did was mow the lawn, take care of his own vehicle (I did mine), and call repairmen when needed. He had no responsibilities. If he did something with his kids I got them ready, I packed a lunch, I cleaned them up and put them to bed when they got home. I watched them while he got his things ready. I made it 'ok' if he failed to keep his word. This was enabling because he had a kind of great adult life, and the illusion of an involved great parent, and the responsibilities of a 10yo. I didn't take all that over because I was a control freak, he just didn't do any of it, no matter how many discussions we had about splitting responsibilities. He never followed through.

He went on very few family vacations with us but when he did - I made sure all the necessities were paid for and he'd spend his money on beer, and sometimes I'd buy even more because I wanted things to go smoothly on vacation. It makes me sick to think about it now. The entire situation that I enabled for years makes me sick to think about.

Over the years he'd go for months without paying his school loan and we'd have yet another discussion and another plan and try to work it out (I was in heavy denial that he was an alcoholic) and I'd get the loans caught up. :sigh: Enabling. If he borrowed money from his mother - I'd pay her back.

I'd stay up late at night, or miss work, to write last minute resume's for him. I'd spend $20 to overnight them there. All enabling. A grown man can get things done before the last minute and type on the computer - and if he doesn't do it, then he doesn't deserve the job . It was hard for me to see those types of things at the time.

I disengaged. I did not nag him about anything ever. Not about the money, the drinking, about the chores he did not do, about the things he didn't keep his word on, about the excessive time spent golfing. I disengaged and didn't say anything about any of it. I'm not sure I would do it any differently but I woudln't have done it for so long. Each day my resentment and rage grew. It wasn't working. I disengaged but did not detach if that makes sense. I see that as enabling now. He claims he didn't even know I was upset, and maybe he is that out of touch with reality I don't know. I do know that I allowed him to do any damn thing he wanted with no consequences and no displeasure from me at all, and I see that as enabling.

I'm not sure how to not do some of the above things and still live with a person.

I also lost the entire amount of my retirment fund, a few thousand dollars of misc. crap, and settled for a pathetic amount of child support for 4 kids = money well spent I say. It is behind me now.

He's had a rough 6 months. Lots of whining about what I'm not doing for him anymore and how cruel I am. I showed up with the kids yesterday for a long over do overnight visit. He wondered what he should feed them and can I go to the store. That is so sad really. That a grown adult would put themselves is such a position. He isn't stupid, he is imposing helplessness on himself. Um. No I will not go to the store and I would suggest feeding them food. They'll be here about 24 hours, it doesn't even really matter what kind of food. Just feed them. I do understand that some of that is manipulation because he wanted me to buy the groceries and do the work, but damn.

Learn2Live

Oh, and I was just reminded and I think someone else mentioned pawn shops, once you stop giving them cash and/or supporting them financially, they will SELL whatever they can sell to get the booze. And they will sell YOUR stuff before they sell their own stuff so whatever you don't want to lose, remove from the house. Pain in the a$$ yes, so it's up to you whether or not you want to expend the energy.

Learn2Live

Whoa Thumper, thanks for sharing. You are an amazingly strong, hardworking and capable woman. I can't wait for you to have the opportunity to turn all that energy and ability onto only YOU and your life. I hope you are learning how to be a bit selfish! Make sure you are treating yourself, OK?

SoloMio

Thanks, all, for your feedback!

Jazzman, you're right--if someone relayed their life the way that I've relayed mine, I would not understand how that person could put up with that. I think I should do a little role-playing in my head and see what my advice to my "friend" would be.

Thumper, I identified SO strongly with your story. I especially like the "disengaging but not detaching" thing--I do get it. That's where I'm going now.

Thanks also EW and L2L.. great practical advice and support.

Jazzman

Had to cut the grass before it rained...

My first wife of 13 years had an interesting philosophy about credit cards. To her a limit was a gaol to be achieved! Max out one card? No problem, get another one and you have a whole new limit to shoot for!

About 9 years into our marriage I was sick and tired of seeing my paycheck deposited into our joint account but I could only have $20 for gas and nothing more. I didn't ask permission, I sat my wife down and said I was separating our finances because I was sick of being broke and in debt. I told her I would pay the mortgage and my car payment and my credit card, she could pay the utilities, her car payment and her credit cards. I took on the larger share of the bills because I made all of 5k more a year than she did. She could manage her finances the way she wanted and it was her business. I was tired of fighting over money all the time and she didn't need me looking over her shoulder about money. She had complete financial autonomy like the responsible adult she claimed to be.

In about one years time I was completely out of credit card debt, had a SAVINGS account for the first time since I was married to S, had saved enough money to refinance the home loan to a 15 year fixed with a really low rate, took my oldest son on a vacation to Disney World just the two of us and had enough money to buy a Jet Ski and pay cash.

We never again fought over money and for the first year she lived within her means. But it was not her style so keeping it up long term wasn't going to happen. Since we split up she has filed BR twice, had a car repo'd and a home foreclosed on. She will never live within her means and she will never learn.

If you're lucky enough to have a emotionally mature and responsible partner you probably would never have to take such drastic steps. They all must post on some another forum though....

CatLover1234

Thumper, thank you for your post. You are an inspiration!

transformyself

Stealing that one. Love it.

You should watch "The Corporation" a great documentary about how corporations perfectly fit the profile of a sociopath.