Jenny1232

I ended up writing an email to his ex last night. I was reading a book on abusive men - and it said, rather than believe what the men say, reach out to their exes.

He had always painted her to be this evil, coniving woman, who did him wrong, while he tried everything. For the longest time, I believed him. It wasn't until I started to see how he twists my own words, and blames ME for everything, that I didn't believe it.

Here is her reply:

Jennifer,

Your message made my heart ache - I have been where you are. I fell in love with X when I was 10 years old, and we dated off and on from the time I was 17 until my first semester of law school 3 years ago - 8 years total. I was crazy, crazy in love with him, which is why I stayed with him for so long. I could never imagine not having him in my life, which is why when I finally left him nearly three years ago, I told him that I wasn't ever going to speak to or see him again. Finally letting him go - someone who had been in my life since I was a child - was the hardest thing I have ever done. It was also my first step towards being true to myself, recognizing my self-worth, and finally feeling good about my decisions.

I am not sure what answers you are hoping to find in me that you have not already discovered in your own search and self-reflection. Much of what you have shared with me sounds very familiar, and I feel for you - and I hurt for X, too. I was angry with him for years, and it was only about a year ago that I realized I had finally forgiven him. I hope one day he'll figure it out and find some peace - but that's up to him. It's not my responsibility or your responsibility - we are only responsible for ourselves, right? So on that note, just remember what you already know - you don't need to hear from me or any of his other exes - not really. You know when someone is treating you fairly, with respect, and being honest and true to you. That said, I understand why you reached out, and I think it was brave.

You don't need to worry about your message stirring up any drama - not from my end. My relationship with X is something I put away a long time ago, and I don't intend to stir up any more hurt or pain. I am so sorry you are hurting, and I wish you the best, Jennifer.

-------------------

I'm in shock. Disbelief. She doesn't strike me as a crazy woman. She just graduated law school, she's freaking gorgeous. I began to think, he resented the fact she left.

Reading what she has said, doesn't compare to anything he ever told me about them. He tried SO hard.. She stole his money, cheated on him, hurt him, left him, etc. It was always what SHE did to him. I can almost sense the pain she felt... thinking back to him. I just don't even know what to think anymore.

Is he even a real person? Wtf. This was my confirmation that I need to STAY away from him. I do not believe a word he says. It still hurts so bad.. to know everything was a lie.

I feel good though. Climbing was great last night. I don't even miss him that much. It just...hurts.

suki44883

She sounds like a very mature and nice person. Knowing what you already know, and now her response to your email, what more do you need to see that he's basically just a user and abuser? You can be the nice mature person who wrote that email, if you are willing to work hard and put yourself and your needs first.

Summerpeach

She sounds like a wonderful person who took her pain and put it to good use.

And she's right, she or anyone else cannot tell you what you don't already know.
He's a liar, and this should not shock you anymore.

The pain is terrible, I know......sorry for your pain

MissFixit

I agree with the above. You know he is a liar now. You can decide what to do or not do with that knowledge.

As far as contacting the ex goes, you have done that, read her kind reply and have further confirmation that he has problems.

My exA spoke badly about his first wife who was once a friend that I hadn't seen in years when he and I got together. I wanted her permission before dating him and for about 1 1/2 months went back and forth in conversations with him about talking with her. He was adamantly against it and said he would talk with her. He said that he did and she was fine with things. He was her ex husband, so I thought that his decision ranked above mine when dealing with her. He also told me that she never liked me or was my friend. This was completely opposite my experiences with her, but I believed him at the time.

Fast forward several years. He completely alienated our friends from me by telling lies to them about me and nasty things I did not say about them. Why did he do that? Don't fully know, but see the pattern. He separates people who know his BS, so those not in the know (yet) are tricked by him. I don't know what it is called technically, but denial, distortion, rewriting history and outright lying seems to be common in active A's.

You have this knowledge now. That is a good thing. When dealing with him, remember what he does. You cannot trust this man...

Starburst

My heart goes out to you, sorry for all the pain and shock u feeling right now. Yes she is a lovely person and very nice of her to take the time to write to you, she didnt have to do that. It's time for you to move forward and take the time to heal yourself, concentrate on happy, positive thoughts. You are special, you can still change your life for the better! Praying for you.

JenT1968

well,
there you go. exactly what the book would have predicted (is it lundy bancroft's book?), I'm so sorry, it is hard to come to terms with being so completely taken in, and I find it hard to forgive myself for that. Read the rest of the book, then read it all again

smoke and mirrors. lies and half truths and terrible tales of being done-wrong in the past, brought low by terrible women. I'm asking for written references in triplicate should I ever date again (actually I'm going to have an arranged marriage picked by a cult, they can't possibly provide a worse match for me than the ones I choose for myself).

Jenny1232

Yes, it was Lundy's book. I loved it. In the beginning of it, I saw him on every page. I read the book - and loaned it to my friend lol. I could certainly read it again.. though I'm in the middle of other books as well.

Jenny1232

Thank you for your replies everyone - I just feel like a complete fool. I also feel like... he won't even miss me. He won't care I'm gone - because he isn't a REAL person. I want to know that he at least cared about me. It makes me feel worthless.

I'm in complete shock. Maybe it will pass. It sucks that it will be so hard for me to let go off, while he's off in his la la land, moving on to the next, not giving a F about me (I'm presuming here, which I shouldn't), but still.

It hurts. I hate liars. He always made it a point to say, "I don't lie"... Well, YES YOU DO.

posiesperson

JenT, thanks for the laugh! LOL! I myself am hand-picking a "committee" of my closest friends who obviously have better judgment than I do...they told me to be break up with exA for MONTHS (and it was only a 10 month relationship). All future applicants have to go through the committee...

Jenny, my heart goes out to you. What an incredibly validating e-mail from his ex, and yet the validation can be so painful, too. What you have there is a gift that no one else could have given you, someone who responded as having walked your path. You, too, will survive this and may well have an opportunity to give back in a similar way someday.

I know it's hard to move on, I'm doing it too. Your post today helped me, and his ex helped me, too. The situations are eerily similar. My exA doesn't speak to any exs at all, tells all kinds of angry stories about why that's a justified thing. It doesn't matter anymore...as his ex said to you, you don't really need to contact anyone else...you know the truth and know how you deserve to be treated.

I also want to know the name of the book. Could you post it?

Here's looking to (much) brighter days,
posie

Jenny1232

Thanks Posiesperson! Well, the thing is, I'm slipping into denial mode again. She didn't state specifics.. but yes, I believe what she said was a clear indicator. I can not lose sight of the bigger, unwritten message here.

The book is, "Why does he do that: Inside the minds of controlling and angry men", but Lundy Bancroft! It's awesome. It's depressing. It's the sad truth. I highly recommend, if you're dealing with an abusive man.

Also, my ex wouldn't speak to ANY of his exes either. Yet, he never understood why I kept in contact with all of mine. He thought it was wrong.. they were the past, he's the future, so I needed to let them go. He had something bad to say about each of his ex-girlfriends too. I used to bash my ex before him, because it was fresh when we met. However, as time went on, I told him I no longer resented him, and he was an important part of me, and I wanted to have permission to speak if I so desired. He was ABSOLUTELY against it.

nodaybut2day

Jenny...I just wanted to tell you that I did what you did; I contacted my XAH's 2nd and 3rd wives because I wanted to know. XAH's second partner is still in the picture as she is the mother to DSS; she was cold, as usual--probably because she still feels insecure regarding my place in her son's life, but said she'd welcome any conversation regarding her son. It was encouraging at least.

XAH's 3rd wife painted a VERY different picture from the one XAH had painted for me. He told me several things about her that made me loathe her...We had a lot of email exchanges and though I'm not ready to be BFFs, it really helped crystalize my belief that XAH was a manipulative liar. She set me straight on a lot of things (including the paternity of her son, which XAH still denies)...it was shocking to see how much her son and my daughter look alike.

In any case, I'm very glad that you got such a straight forward response from the woman you wrote to. She didn't seem like she was after anything except just communication. I'm sorry that her validation is painful, but I've come to realize that if I don't go through some amount of pain, I don't learn and move forward. My brain must be real stubborn.

Kittyboo

My XA told me his ex cheated on him, was a liar, manipulative, would hit him, yelled at him, would get drunk and tell him how worthless he was, that they would talk about not drinking anymore but when he would come home from work she was drinking with her friends at the apt and it made it hard for him to stop...all the while he was affectionate and attentive. His exact words were that she was evil.

Guess what...he went back to her.

When he did, he told me that she was writing him and telling him how she messed up, and that she finally realized how amazing he was and how stupid she was to let him go. (excuse me while I laugh)
Then all of a sudden she became an angel, and the love of his life.

She wasn't begging him to come back, he was begging her to come back. She wasn't evil, and a drunk, he was. She's just a young girl, in love with a manipulative liar, who treats her like a queen maybe 10% of the time, and emotionally abuses her 90% of the time. How do I know this? Because of how he treated me. That's who he is. No doubt he treats her better than he ever treated me.... but if he was emotionally abusive to me, am I dumb enough to believe that I must be the only one he treats like that? No. Not any more.

I don't need to write his ex to know that she is not the evil woman he made her out to be. Neither do you sweets! I'm glad you got some kind of validation for things you already know.
I think it was Still Learning who left you an amazing reply in your last thread. Let yourself feel the pain of it being OVER.
I cried for MONTHS. Just like her, there are still ups and downs, few and far between. But I went through the grieving period, which was rough, but thank God I did.

Get mad, be angry, cry...and be so thankful that it is OVER.

Tally

When he finds his next victim, you'll be the crazy ex then.

Duped

This is what active alcoholics do and is a function of their denial. Anyone who catches onto their particular strain of bullshyt is ousted from the alcoholics' presence, permanently, and the enablers are separated from everyone else and remain in the dark for as long as they are buying into the bs. Over time the truth invariably comes out and the enablers will catch on, only to be replaced by new enablers.

Rinse and repeat.

PieRat

Wow sounds a lot like what my AW has said to me about theri past relationships. Your ex happen to abuse alcohol as well I assume?

Duped

Projection. Guaranteed what really happened was the exact opposite.

Bolina

Have you read the "You think you're so special" threads in the Classic Reading sticky? They describe this scenario perfectly - and they are not from a site that has anything to do with alcoholism. This has little to do with drinking, it's just part of the intersection of douche and drunk.

My ex did the same before prior and post his relationship with me. It got quite creepy after me, though, and I found out in email exchanges with the next gf long after I left that he was saying the same stuff, buying her the exact same gifts (even the exact same fancy underwear!) going to the same places, many of which were my idea and were "our" places - some weren't even in the same country, so took an active decision, rather than just being local. And some of those he claimed he'd never been before. She was still in some denial at the time (although perfectly friendly towards me), so on a hunch I sent her a list of 10 things that I guessed he had bought/taken her to. I was right on 8 and the other 2 had been discussed. She left not long after. Apparently, he married the one after her in the same place in which we got engaged and I celebrated a big birthday - again, miles from the area. I am betting that his wife would not be too happy to hear of his history there. And I am betting that I was not the first woman that was taken there either.

What I learned through that experience was that I was not a person to him. I was an object in his sphere whose prescence was necessary for him to appear "normal". Along the way, he discovered what was needed to ensure that he kept a woman by his side in a socially acceptable facade. Each relationship meant that he learned a little bit more of what did and didn't work in keeping that facade alive and so he just transposed a different woman into the same scenario. There was a reason that ALL of the women with which he has had relationships have been in some way vulnerable and certainly lacking self-esteem at the time he met them. And a reason that he tried so hard to get them down the aisle as quickly as possible.

And yes, projection was certainly at work in the dynamic. During the last 6 months, I learned to to hear "I" when he was ranting lots of "YOU" statements. It was very revealing.

The vast majority of men aren't like the guys described on here. Acting when the red flags are spotted is key, I believe. We, as women, may be socially conditioned to be caretakers, foregivers and not to be nasty, however it is up to us to say "NO" to unacceptable behavior. The sooner we do that when we are dating, the sooner we get to meet one of the good ones. And save ourselves the heartache.

It's OK to say "This isn't working for me". And it's OK to laugh when they respond with a "You b*tch".

Jenny1232

Well, she wrote me back some more. She's incredibly kind - and even suggested therapy, as it's what she did to work through her codependecy issues. It's clear she doesn't want to hash out old memories, but she didn't need to.

Her Message was unwritten, but very clear.

The things she did reveal, which seemed entirely harmful, only provided me with proof of his lies, due to all the discrepancies.

It's a sad realization.. but honestly, I feel fantastic that I can finally say, "he's a liar; do not believe ANYTHING he says". This is the first time - throughout this whole ordeal of the last few months, that I truly WANT to walk away and move on.

I owe it to all of you.. who helped me. Listened to me whine and cry, be angry and sad, and repeat the same mistakes over and over, but always, always offered the same advice over and over. It always stuck with me, I just found ways around it. Well, no longer do I. Thank you!

Pierat, he abuses alcohol (and for a while, it was pain pills... still could, who knows since he's a liar). He's in complete denial of any problem, but I recognized it. I joined this site, and began to see through his manipulation tactics, and it's what finally made me realize, alcohol or not.. this guy is NOT good for me. It also helped me see my own internal problems!

nodaybut2day

This is one of my biggest fantasies

Jenny1232

Oh thank you, Bolina!

Actually, I hadn't read that one. I've read SO much on here, it's hard to keep track.. but definitely didn't get to that one. I will check it out!

That is really creepy. How did she contact you? Did it bother you? I felt really bad for emailing her, but she was sweet about it... Did you go into specifics with her, or keep it short? That is really pathetic.. to be honest. The whole lying, etc.

I can see what you mean by not being a person ---- He said to me, crying, the other day, "I need you" because "if I lose you, I feel like I will never get what I want". I felt sorry for him - he needed me, because everyone walks out on him, understandably so. I'm sure the next gf will here all these horrific things about me.

He sent me a text earlier today, and in it, he stated, "You need serious help; You've made a fool out of us both". -- I am helping myself.