Tatertot

Hi there (sorry, this ended up being so much longer than I thought!),

I have been looking for a forum like this that can hopefully offer some advice to someone who has no one else to talk to about this...

A little background about me: I don't drink (never been interested in it), I don't smoke (never even tried), and needless to say I have never done drugs either. I am in my early 30's. I've been married once (in my early 20's). Been divorced for 6 years. I have also volunteered at a Homeless Shelter/Soup Kitchen/Recovery Center for the past 6 years.

During those 6 years of volunteering I have seen a lot of men come and go from the Recovery Program (it's a 6 month program). For some of them it took more than one shot at it. But without a doubt I can say that ALL of them have always been kind and nice to me. During their recovery they must put in some "work experience" time in the kitchen (where I volunteer) so I meet most of them at one point or another.

Just over a year ago one of the men that came through the kitchen made such an impression on me. He was always smiling, laughing, singing, and generally bringing up the mood of anybody he was around. I really started to look forward to my volunteer days just so I could hear his happy voice. We didn't really talk too much though... just the passing hey how are you type deal...

Once he left the kitchen and moved on to other chores I didn't see him as much but occaisionally still at dinner and sometimes during the evening for a minute or two we got to chat. Eventually his graduation from the program was coming up and he asked if I could come to it. It was during the daytime and I had to work so I couldn't go. But I did drop a Congratulatory card off for him. The next time I saw him he thanked me for the card and asked if we could go for coffee. I said no and he asked a couple more times but when I kept saying no he didn't push it.

However I really did enjoy his company and really wouldn't mind getting to know him better. So I finally did agree to coffee with him. We chatted and it was good but that was it. This was towards the end of last year (Novemberish).

I kept seeing him when I volunteered and we kept talking during the 10-15 minutes we had over dinner at the shelter. But nothing more ever happened. He was very respectful and didn't even email me (I have only given him my email, not my phone number).

Then earlier this year (March) I asked if he would like to go for coffee again. Of course he said yes so we eventually went. Again it was really good. He then asked if I would go to his "1-year" celebration at his AA meeting. I told him I would if I could but no promises. Turns out I did make it. It was certainly an experience for me but a good one. He asked me to drive him home and of course I did, but we stopped for coffee on the way and while we were out he tried to kiss me. I didn't kiss him back. He said he was sorry if he offended me and I said he didn't, but that I wasn't going to kiss him.

Prior to this we had already arranged to go see a movie the following weekend (as we are both really interested in movies). So I kept the "date" but still not intending anything to happen. We went for dinner then the movie. I let him put his arm around me but still no kiss.

We are going to see each other again in a few weeks and I KNOW he will want to progress this "relationship" to the next level. And I am freaked out of my mind! I have read so much about recovering addicts/alcoholics and how difficult relationships can be for them... I really do care about him and I LOVE how he is as a person right now... always so happy and uplifting. I really like him and actually think I wouldn't mind taking this to the next level... but I am so scared for him. I don't want anything to happen that would cause him to lose all of his good work over the past year...

What are your opinions/advice in this situation. Should I talk to him about my concerns? Am I right in only judging him on who he is now? Others have told me I have to take into account how he USED TO BE.... but I didn't know him then. I don't think it's fair of me to judge on what I don't know of him...

I should also mention that he does smoke and he is quite a bit older than me but not sure if that matters so much to me, it's not like I'm a kid after all...

I think he is such a wonderful person, everyone that spoke at the AA meeting about him had nothing but praise to say, I love his personality... should this be enough for me to give this "relationship" a chance??? Or should I run for the hills? LOL!

Thanks so much for your consideration of this situation for me...

theuncertainty

Hi and welcome to SR. Personally, I would run, but my dealings with my AH have jaded me quite a bit and have left me currently un-sympathetic and dubious of (his) recovery. Perhaps it will change as I progress through my own recovery, I don't know.

Your post indicates you have some reservations. All I can say is take it slow. Take it as slow as you did in accepting his offer of coffee, if not slower. Make it clear to him that you want to take it slow. You've had, what, 4 dates? That is so early to be jumping into a "relationship" with an RA. He has 1 year under his belt, it's definitely a milestone, but I'm guessing he still has a lot of things he'll need to work through.

Honest communication on both sides is key - as in any type of relationship. I think it is important to be able to talk with him about his alcoholism and explore both of your feelings on that subject. I would assume he's open to that since he asked you to his 1-year.

Best wishes.

hello-kitty

Your fear = warning bells going off in your head.

Listen to them and proceed cautiously.

He has a long road ahead of him when it comes to recovery. Ideally, he would focus his energy on that, instead of on a new relationship.

Tatertot

Thank you both! I know I am quite hesitant to pursue this for all sorts of reasons...and in my mind I really do plan on "taking it slow"... the only ahem... *problem*... is that I find I am almost uncontrollably attracted to him! (But definitely thus far have been able to be very controlled, I have always been able to be in control of my desires).

I think I will have a "heart to heart" with him when I see him next. I think I should voice my concerns and see what he says. And yes he is very open to talking about his past, I sometimes don't want to bring it up because I don't want him to think about painful times when he should be focusing on a brighter future. But he speaks alot at both the Recovery facility and at AA meetings about "his story" and he is an inspiration to many others.

Also I have not given him my phone number, partly because I'm not entirely sure I want to go down this path yet, and also I have had a VERY bad experience with a stalker in the past.... so I am very careful who I give my phone number too these days... BUT I also think it's partly so that he doesn't have an excuse not to focus on himself. I don't want to be the center of his waking universe and have him call me all the time... I know he still needs to focus on himself. Yes one year is a good milestone, but when he's been an addict for the past 20+ years of his life... I think it will take more time than that to be in total control of oneself... but again I don't know.

While I am open to giving this "relationship" a chance, I think it is definitely good advice to go ever so slowly. I am in completely unfamiliar territory here... baby steps might be best...

Also I am very open and interested in anyone who might have been through something similar...

HealingWillCome

Hi Tatertot, and welcome. Do you mind my asking why you have done a lot of reading about recovering addicts/alcoholics? Is it because you want to know how to pursue this relationship, or do you have previous relationship experiences with A's? What about your XH?

I ask because I was married to my XAH for 11 years and SWORE I would never end up in another relationship with an addict/alcoholic. And I didn't...for 8 years...in fact, I dated great, honorable, admirable, respectful men and broke up with each of them because they eventually didn't hold my interest. Then...XABF entered the picture (charming, funny, incredibly handsome, professional, loved by everybody, life of the party, loved ME like crazy, said he'd found the girl of his dreams, wanted to spend our lives together, etc., etc., etc.)

I hesitated for a long, long time before giving in to dating him. Intuition said RUN, FAST and FAR. But I didn't because I was crazy about him -- stupid choice. After a rocky first year and then me leaving him, he wanted me back six weeks later because he was "looking for change" and wanted me to be part of that change. I took him back and he attempted recovery, but it didn't happen and our relationship ended painfully after another year. He needed to heal for himself, by himself. But he didn't...he went back to using and drinking more than I had ever seen.

Your friend is obviously in a much better place (recovery!) than my XABF which is much more promising for both of you. But I would just say to be very, very careful if you have any past patterns of dating/looking for men with addictive personalities. Or if your father or primary male influences in your life were addicts, please explore this honestly. For me, I am slowly but surely learning that my attraction to addicts has everything to do with my own AF who left us when I was a 7-yo little girl. I realized that I was looking for a guy just like my AF who would treat me like the princess my father never did. If that guy would change for me, then I would be healed. Wrong. I was looking for my own healing through someone else. But now I've learned that only I can heal me.

Tatertot

HealingWillCome: Thank you so much for your story. I certainly hope you are in a good place right now. You have been through much and deserve happiness.

To answer your question, no I have never dealt with anyone who has been addicted to anything before. My XH and I just weren't "compatible" in more ways than one. And whereas yes my father did drink in excess (in my eyes anyway) while I was growing up it did not really affect me too much, except that it made me not want to drink, so I never did at any of the parties I went to. I was always the DD.

So yes, I have been doing research on how to approach this kind of relationship with this particular man. I really admire anyone who has been able to kick these addictions and can only imagine the kind of willpower it must take. That is why there is no way in the world I would EVER want to be the cause of someone to backslide... I would feel like the worst person in the world.

I wonder if I just tell him that, exactly how I feel about it, if that would make any difference. I'm just worried that he'll instinctively say Don't worry, I'll never start using again, no matter what you do.

But on the other hand I want to treat him like I would any other person that I would date. Does he really want to be babied and treated differently? I don't know... that's why it seems like a tricky situation. I am just WAY out in left field here... feel like a fish out of water... which is why I'm trying to get as much info and insight into this as I can.

To me he is just a regular guy... one filled with life, light, and laughter... but I always have to remember in the back of my head that he probably wasn't always that way... he must have a pretty dark past... but again I don't feel it's fair to judge him on that. I feel I need to treat him as the man I know now...

Sigh... why must the head and the heart always disagree???

Jazzman

My sister met a man that worked a 6 month faith based program, they fell in love, married and had two children. Her H had a good run of sobriety for a couple years then started a long pattern of relapse, sober, relapse, sober.... He had a long history of drug addiction, alcoholism and abuse but was able to get it together just long enough to establish a normal life and have two daughters. Now he's gone, living in the streets some where, my sister divorced him and is raising two daughters alone who will grow up to be ACOAs with daddy issues.

Not advice, just my sisters story, one you will here repeated a lot. Be careful.

Thumper

The man you know now has 20 years of alcoholism and 1 year of sobriety.

Those are the odd's that are staring you in the face. Relapse rates are very high. There are a lot of men in the world. Is this one worth that kind of gamble? The stakes are high.

BTW you can not cause someone to backslide and you can not prevent it either. You have posted several questions on how to treat him, concerned for what he might need.

Well what do you need? Do you need a relationship with a man that has you concerned about how to treat him by the second date? What kind of stability and dependability are you looking for in a long term relationship and does this man have it? Do you have a list of what you need from/in a relationship? I didn't and I should have. Then determine if this man meets your needs. The whole man, everything you know about him. Not just the one that can be charming in 2 hour intervals.

HealingWillCome

Whatever you choose to do, Tatertot, please remember to not lose sight of who you are and who you want to become. Once you become involved with or fall in love with an A, it is easy to stop being yourself. It is too easy to shift your focus to them and their needs.

Pay attention to how much he is willing to give you. Not just in the next week or month or two, but over the long term. I'm not taking about occasional gifts, flowers, or a few "right" words at the right time. Sit back and take time to find out how interested he is in you, who you are, what makes you tick, what makes you happy, what makes you sad. Does he want to participate in or support you in your passions? Will he care about your friends and family? Will he be there for you in your own times of need, 100%?

Wait to see if he asks you questions about yourself before you try to teach him who you are. If he is interested, he will want to know. True loving relationships are 50/50 give and take. With an A, they can be a draining 99% give/1% take, too much of the time.

Go slow, and don't be afraid to listen to your head...especially if it is in conflict with your heart. It is trying to tell you something. Emotions are deceiving.

Give it TIME and don't lose sight of who YOU are! You are too special to lose yourself!

Omega10

Here are a couple of questions you might want to ask yourself. Is it this exact man with whom you want a relationship? Or is it just a relationship you want, he holds some of the qualities you are looking for, and he is there, so it is convenient for you?

Your instincts are telling you that this may not be a good situation to be in, particularly since you have not given him your phone number. Be cautious if you do decide to go further.

Thumper

I'm sorry for responding again. I keep coming back to this thread in my mind. I don't want to tell you what to do (well - I really do but that isn't helpful). It is making me tense - which is something to explore myself


If you decide to pursue a relationship with this man this is what I would advice.

Clearly, and I mean very clearly (right it down), define your boundaries. Define your needs and desires in life, your morals and ethics, the things you find important, boundaries on how you will be treated, boundaries on what things you will accept into your life, a certain bar for how you will live. Make it a long and detailed list. Keep it. Read it often. Throught out this relationship do not take one single sideways step off that path. Do not give one single inch. That will be hard to do if you've been in a relationship for a long time but you must be strong enough to do that in a relationship that carries such a risk.

I look back at the woman I was and what I held dear and through out the years I can see where I took one step sideways - for the man I married. But the path is lined with slopes, and they are slippery. One step away from the path that list signifies so easily leads to one more, and one more, until you are lost in a dark forest before you even know it.

That is a lot of work for just beginning to date someone but you have a bit of a gift here - you know something very important about this man. He was lost in a dark forest of his own for a very long time. He's on his sunshine filled path now but he's only a few slippery steps away from his forest too.

MissFixit

This guy sounds like he is in a vulnerable place. Although you mean well and like him as a friend ( I assume nothing more), he obviously likes you romantically. Not sure why you asked him for coffee the sceond time, but to me you are giving him mixed signals.

He likes you and is attracted to you. You like him, but are not (I assume) attracted to him. He is vulnerable (newly sober A) and not too stable (relies on a shelter). You have a job and volunteer at the shelter. To me, this is an uneven relationship. If you don't want to date him, don't hang out with him.

MissFixit

To me he is just a regular guy... one filled with life, light, and laughter... but I always have to remember in the back of my head that he probably wasn't always that way... he must have a pretty dark past... but again I don't feel it's fair to judge him on that. I feel I need to treat him as the man I know now...

I am going to be completely politically incorrect here, so please ignore if you need to.

There is no fair in relationships. They just are. You can take them or leave them. Good and bad. Deciding not to date someone or being cautious with them based on their past is not judging them. Maybe it is to someone, but it is YOUR life and if judging someone based on their past mistakes keeps you away from a potentially harmful situation, then judge. This is just me, but I will NEVER get involved romantically with another A. It is too taxing on me and I am not equipped to endure what might arise.

It is your life and I don't want to boss you around here, but in my experience when you have warning bells, are hesitant and see red flags, then it is best to acknowledge them and use them as reference points in decsion making. They are there for reasons.

Learn2Live

TaterTot Have you gone to Al-Anon or ACOA? I think you are in the right place (SoberRecovery) but that you are here to ask about HIM and HIS Recovery, not realizing that what you are really asking about is YOU and YOUR Recovery.

What exactly are you expecting from this heart to heart conversation, that he is going to allay your fears and assure you that everything is on the up-and-up, that he has good intentions, that he has enough sobriety under his belt that your relationship is going to be on solid ground? To involve yourself with a man with his problems, and then to expect a normal relationship, or expect him to be able to give you something by way of a relationship is, frankly, unfair to him, the newly recovering alcoholic. I am no psychic but I am willing to bet he will not be able to deliver what your heart might be hoping for.

The greater question here, to me, is what does you volunteering to help alcoholics tell you about yourself? Where does your childhood come into play in your behaviors? Why are you seeking out relationships with recovering alcoholics? Are there healthier persons (without out addictions and/or alcoholism) that you could choose to date and get involved with?

Some things to think about. I recommend you go to Al-Anon &/or ACOA. Take care.

Still Waters

In my opinion, if you're scared to start a new relationship, that's a good sign that you aren't ready for a relationship.

gerryP

Lets take the 'new to sobriety' out of the equation for a minute.

What does he do to earn a living? What are his hobbies? What do you have in common? Who are his friends? Do you have common goals ans aspirations. Does he do volunteer work of any kind. Are you on the same wave length emotionally and intellectually. These are the things I generally look at when I am deciding whether or not to pursue a relationship with someone.

Tatertot

Wow... really and truly I want to thank you all for your honest and heartfelt opinions... What an eye opener this has been...

The fact that not one person has said "Well yes he's had a rough past but has made the decision to put that behind him and so I think he deserves a fair shake just like any other human being..." really tells me that my thinking is WAYYY off base!

Jazzman... I am so sorry about your sister... but yes indeed that sounds like the exact situation I could quite possibly find myself in one day if I went down this road (probably minus the kids though...) I hope your sister manages to find peace and be happy again one day.

Thumper... I don't mind more than one post... you might have missed something important in the first one Your questions really make me stop and think. Some of them I haven't thought of before... and you hit my personality on the head... I am the type of person who WOULD take a sidestep if it helped someone else out or made someone else's life easier. I KNOW my own health and happiness are the most important things, and I keep learning it the hard way, but I just can't help being nice and wanting to help others... But the fact that everyone here is basically saying that as soon as I take one sidestep I would probably immediately have to take many others before realizing what I was doing really has me concerned now. I hate to have to stop a relationship before ever giving it a fair chance but seems like that may be the only sane thing for me to do. But it bites.

Omega10... believe me it is not the simple fact that I want a relationship... in my life I have only ever had long term relationships... and there always seems to be another one right around the corner when the last one ends... And I certainly don't know yet whether he is the EXACT man I would want to have a relationship with as I would need to get to know him better for that... but all signs here point to not bothering to get to know him any better. Run now while I still have my sanity with me!

MissFixIt... As to your first post... I DO like him and I AM attracted to him... which is what makes this so difficult. I asked him for coffee the second time around because I DO want to get to know him better. He DOES have a job and has moved out of the shelter to an apartment complex (still shelter sponsored though, so it is a "dry" apartment complex). And it's ok, I really don't mind harsh opinions, especially if they come from a place of experience (as yours do). I really, really value insight like yours. If anything they at least shatter my illusions of "happily ever after" (as does everyone else's stories on here, which is a good thing for me).

Learn2Live... I have not gone to Al-anon... I don't think I have a reason to yet... however if I did want to pursue this relationship I have already thought that I would go. As for MY recovery? I don't have anything to recover from yet... Also I don't volunteer "to help alcoholics", I volunteer at a shelter that serves over 200 meals to the homeless every night and THAT is where I volunteer.. in the kitchen... it's just that the men that are taking part in the Recovery program offered also have to spend time doing work experience in the kitchen... which is where I met this man over a year ago. I don't "seek out" relationships with alcoholics, as I said this is extremely new to me and I have no experience with it whatsoever... which is why I'm in such a confused state right now... and yes there are TONS of places I could and do meet "healthier" men, but sometimes you can't help who you're attracted to...

GerryP... I know what he does to earn a living, and it's a respectable job. As to the other questions, well those are the point to getting to know someone, right? You don't know these things automatically...

Anvilhead... thanks for the food for thought LOL... now I want a Slap Chop!! But seriously I don't think you can honestly compare a recovering addict/alcoholic to a rocket scientist... (although I def. have more in common with the rocket scientist as I do hold a science degree, lol). I do realize that he is a man just barely sober/clean and that he has a LOT of work ahead of him to truly get his life back on track. I definitely don't want to be one of those women who feels I can "fix" him or even "help" him get his life back on track. I don't want him to come to rely on me to give him a reason to continue recovering... he has to do that all on his own, without me. I am definitely clear on that.

Again just the simple fact that NO ONE has said "You know what, give him a chance..." speaks VOLUMES. It just makes me a little sad I suppose. At my core I am just so trusting and give everyone the benefit of the doubt... I don't ever assume anyone is lying to me, but I have been bitten in the butt so many times in the past. I just don't want to live in a world where everyone mistrusts and everyone is judged harshly. I don't want to live in a world where I have to watch my back every step of the way. I still believe in the golden rule, naive as that may be.

Which is why it is good of you all to open my eyes to the harsh realities of the world.

Please don't misread, I am not upset at all by any of your replies, in fact I am very very happy that you have given them to me. It makes me realize that no matter how much i want things to be filled with light and happiness and warmth, they usually are not.

Thank You.

Babyblue

I give you a lot of credit. You are handling this well. And I'm not about to be an armchair psychologist and analyze why you may or may not be interested in him. The bottom line is you are interested in him already.

No one has a crystal ball but there are some really valid points people have brought up.

The bottom line is, in his current situation, can this person give you what you need? Remember not to fall for the the potential. That may or may not come. See him for who he is now. It is about what you need and want and his ability (or inability) to give it to you.

My take is you need to get to know him better. He has only been sober for a hot second in his adult life. But coming to this forum and reading up on recovery is a GOOD thing. Knowledge is power.

I see it this way, how would you handle a person who had any other type of illness he was recovering from? Would you think less of them because of that illness, or would you seek to understand?

But if that illness was an burden or taking from your life in any way, you would (and should) be cautious.

Tread lightly. It is a very tricky situation; Go slow, have healthy boundaries and be a friend FIRST. Be a realist and have no illusions about who he is, his past or any risks down the road. You may find all that too much. But only you know what you can or cannot handle provided you approach this from a healthy starting point and from what you are saying/doing, you seem to be.
Good luck!

MissFixit

Dear,

I am glad that you are taking the constructive intentions of these posts.

My guess is 9 out of 10 people on this forum have had good intentions going into their A relationship only to find that the level of struggle (disfunction and mental illness) is too much for them. Shelters are filled with addicts for a reason. Not that they are bad or mean harm, but the disfunction is so overwhelming on many levels. Inviting that into your world and mental space takes its toll eventually, which is why we end up here on a website trying to figure out what the hell happened and put our lives back together.

People don't want others to make their same choices without knowing what you could be in for. Most of us had the high hopes and optimism that you have. It gets shredded after dealing with prolonged mental illness and makes you question your own sanity. We just want to stop you from going through the pain if possible. I for one fell that my pain was not in vain if I can help others in the shoes I once wore.

Hugs

Tatertot

The bottom line is, in his current situation, can this person give you what you need? Remember not to fall for the the potential. That may or may not come. See him for who he is now. It is about what you need and want and his ability (or inability) to give it to you.

Babyblue, this really struck me this afternoon when I read it... because it really got me thinking... what DO I need? Do I need ANYTHING from any guy? And the answer I come up with is a resounding NO. I actually don't NEED anything from him (or anyone). I can get by on my own. I don't need financial support, I don't need physical support, and when you get right down to it, I really don't need emotional support either (I have my parents and sister for that). I am a pretty normal well adjusted person who truly can make it on her own. I would never count on his POTENTIAL for anything except to improve his own quality of life. I DO see him for who he is now... he is someone that didn't like the direction their life had taken so he has taken steps to improve the quality of his life, he has taken action to make the necessary changes needed to get himself to a better place in life. And since I don't NEED anything from him right now the question remains what do I WANT from him? And the answer at this point is I don't really know... I guess that's something I need to figure out...

It's just so strange to me that this is all even an issue for me... He is so outside the norm of the guys that I am usually attracted to it's not even funny. (He smokes, he's a recovering drug/alcohol addict, and he is quite a bit older than me) But there's just something about him... the sparkle in his eyes, the smile he has for everyone, the positive energy that radiates from him, the care that he shows to all people... just his genuine-ness in general. I can't really put my finger on it... So that's why it's so difficult, my heart is so pulling in his direction while my head says no, this is not who you're supposed to fall for... trying to reconcile the two is like a constant war going on inside me...

This forum has been great and I will try to keep you updated on what's been going on. I might see him briefly at the shelter one day next week, and then we are getting together the following week for an evening of movie watching. I think that will be the evening when I try to get this all sorted out. I don't think this is the kind of situation where we want to be guessing what the other is thinking or playing silly mind games...

Again thank you to everyone who shared their stories and experiences with me... I really appreciate them and if you think of anything else I should be aware of, please don't hesitate to update me...

My best wishes to all of you.