What am I saying wrong?
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What am I saying wrong?
OK. For those who have read my other posts, you know I've been working through issues related to son, AH and OW. I've apologized to AH and acknowledged to him that my request regarding who he hung out with with our son was unreasonable.
Some additional background on the visitation front: He offered to take us to dinner Monday, 17th. No call-no show that day, no answer.
Friday, 21st, he calls saying he'll pick up son Saturday AM, 22nd. No show. While waiting for AH to stop by to pick up son, I call, my son calls, no answer. That evening we head to the grocery store where we run into an old acquaintence who said it was so cool to see AH at a rugby game again - who's the redhead? One word explanation to this now highly embarrassed person. AH calls that night, says sorry but he got called into work. So I let AH know I saw 'Joe' and that he mentioned seeing AH at the game and he laughs, "Yeah, sorry." He calls back later that same day asking to "take you both to dinner" the following evening Sunday 23rd. OK, see you then. No call, no show.
Calls the 24th again obstensibly to apologize again and wanting to set up a new time to pick up son. I bring up the fact that the last 2 were no-shows, the last reason for cancelling was a lie. Fight ensues via phone as I'm closing the door to my office about his lack of showing up and honesty. He brings up GF and that he's moving out - has the boxes and everything. (OK I can see where he would equate my statement about honesty with his GF.) He then says he wants to see son Tuesday night. I mention we've already accepted an invitation to son's friend's birthday party that night. He says OK and says he'll call back 'later tonight'. No call, son tries to call, no answer, no call back.
Tuesday I find that I lost the address to the party and there's no answer at the phone number I have. I explain my goof to son as who is sad, stays outside to play with his cousins and then about 20 minute later comes in to ask if he can call Daddy. So he calls and leaves a message. AH calls back, I explain what happend and mentioned that son wanted to call him and see him. He gets pissed about my 'lying about the party', yells that he made other plans and can't see son tonight, and yells at me about telling son about the rugby game and hangs up.
Like the idiot I am, instead of staying inside and telling family the good news about being closer to owning my own place. I head outside for a walk alone and call back to see if he wants son another day. Fight ensues about his perception of lying and my perception of his inconsistency. Call ends, I head back to the house for dinner. Still trying to shake off the call I head to SR.
Yesterday (Wed.), he calls to say he want's son Friday. I told him that 1. son has a play-date already scheduled for his requested day/time (Friday am) and 2. we really need to sit down and talk about trying to set up some kind of schedule. He gets mad and yells about seeing his gd son and that he has dinner plans Thursday and has to work Friday night that we're leaving for camping this weekend and so he doesn't get to see him then until next Tuesday. I got mad too and raised my voice and slammed back with a list of his recent cr**; took a really deep breath, calmed down and mentioned that we need to find some way to be able to talk to each other. To which his response was "well you just want to yell at me and I don't know what to say" and hung up.
I call today, he doesn't answer so I leave a message apologizing for the way the last call went and that I'd like to talk with him about setting up a schedule. He calls back already mad, yelling that he's mad and that his day at work is *** and he shouldn't have called me back and do I know what it sounds like when I ask him to schedule time? I bite the hook and say "I just want to know when you want to see our son, I want to be able to tell him when something is planned and be able to plan around when you will see him." He yells back "Well when can I see him?" I tell him I'm asking him and note that if we can plan for several of his days off or days before he goes to work or after he gets off work, I can make sure I don't schedule play-dates or other events for our son for those times. We can work on setting up next week, next couple weeks, next month, whatever he wants. His response is "Why are you doing this? Never mind. I got to go, I'll see my sister tonight."
What am I doing wrong here? Kids need a sense of continuity, reliability, stability. Am I wrong to ask that we both plan our time with our son? He gets mad when I have something already planned, but I never know when he's going to call and ask.... I don't know what his work schedule is...
I'm at a loss. I don't understand what is wrong about wanting to schedule our time, even if it is only for next week. Can some one help me see what I'm doing wrong?
Some additional background on the visitation front: He offered to take us to dinner Monday, 17th. No call-no show that day, no answer.
Friday, 21st, he calls saying he'll pick up son Saturday AM, 22nd. No show. While waiting for AH to stop by to pick up son, I call, my son calls, no answer. That evening we head to the grocery store where we run into an old acquaintence who said it was so cool to see AH at a rugby game again - who's the redhead? One word explanation to this now highly embarrassed person. AH calls that night, says sorry but he got called into work. So I let AH know I saw 'Joe' and that he mentioned seeing AH at the game and he laughs, "Yeah, sorry." He calls back later that same day asking to "take you both to dinner" the following evening Sunday 23rd. OK, see you then. No call, no show.
Calls the 24th again obstensibly to apologize again and wanting to set up a new time to pick up son. I bring up the fact that the last 2 were no-shows, the last reason for cancelling was a lie. Fight ensues via phone as I'm closing the door to my office about his lack of showing up and honesty. He brings up GF and that he's moving out - has the boxes and everything. (OK I can see where he would equate my statement about honesty with his GF.) He then says he wants to see son Tuesday night. I mention we've already accepted an invitation to son's friend's birthday party that night. He says OK and says he'll call back 'later tonight'. No call, son tries to call, no answer, no call back.
Tuesday I find that I lost the address to the party and there's no answer at the phone number I have. I explain my goof to son as who is sad, stays outside to play with his cousins and then about 20 minute later comes in to ask if he can call Daddy. So he calls and leaves a message. AH calls back, I explain what happend and mentioned that son wanted to call him and see him. He gets pissed about my 'lying about the party', yells that he made other plans and can't see son tonight, and yells at me about telling son about the rugby game and hangs up.
Like the idiot I am, instead of staying inside and telling family the good news about being closer to owning my own place. I head outside for a walk alone and call back to see if he wants son another day. Fight ensues about his perception of lying and my perception of his inconsistency. Call ends, I head back to the house for dinner. Still trying to shake off the call I head to SR.
Yesterday (Wed.), he calls to say he want's son Friday. I told him that 1. son has a play-date already scheduled for his requested day/time (Friday am) and 2. we really need to sit down and talk about trying to set up some kind of schedule. He gets mad and yells about seeing his gd son and that he has dinner plans Thursday and has to work Friday night that we're leaving for camping this weekend and so he doesn't get to see him then until next Tuesday. I got mad too and raised my voice and slammed back with a list of his recent cr**; took a really deep breath, calmed down and mentioned that we need to find some way to be able to talk to each other. To which his response was "well you just want to yell at me and I don't know what to say" and hung up.
I call today, he doesn't answer so I leave a message apologizing for the way the last call went and that I'd like to talk with him about setting up a schedule. He calls back already mad, yelling that he's mad and that his day at work is *** and he shouldn't have called me back and do I know what it sounds like when I ask him to schedule time? I bite the hook and say "I just want to know when you want to see our son, I want to be able to tell him when something is planned and be able to plan around when you will see him." He yells back "Well when can I see him?" I tell him I'm asking him and note that if we can plan for several of his days off or days before he goes to work or after he gets off work, I can make sure I don't schedule play-dates or other events for our son for those times. We can work on setting up next week, next couple weeks, next month, whatever he wants. His response is "Why are you doing this? Never mind. I got to go, I'll see my sister tonight."
What am I doing wrong here? Kids need a sense of continuity, reliability, stability. Am I wrong to ask that we both plan our time with our son? He gets mad when I have something already planned, but I never know when he's going to call and ask.... I don't know what his work schedule is...
I'm at a loss. I don't understand what is wrong about wanting to schedule our time, even if it is only for next week. Can some one help me see what I'm doing wrong?
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You are not doing anything wrong. He is trying to control you by refusing to plan, or refusing to follow through with plans, and then blaming you for it. My suggestion is to tell him when your son is available. These are the dates and times you can see him, which ones do you want? Too bad if he doesn't like it. If he won't work with you to come up with a schedule, then come up with one for him. (You didn't mention how old your son is, but involving him in the scheduling would be appropriate, too, if he is old enough) This is a child we are talking about, not a pawn in a power game. It's entirely appropriate for your son to know what to expect and when.
L
L
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You aren't saying anything wrong at all, just listening to a load of codswallop, from someone who is either playing games with you and your son, or needs a psychiatrist.
If he is sane, then deliberately setting his son up for continual upset, no show and disappointment is cruel and calculated abuse.
As for the dinner dates that just do not happen, give up on anything changing there.
If he makes another date for dinner, don't even bother dressing...just dine at home. If he manages to front, and asks why you didn't arrive, just your shrug shoulders and say you "forgot".
I agree with LaTeeDa, in that he has stuffed up so many visits and events with his no shows, that he gets a list of when your son is free to see him, and commits to a time in that list.
If AH disappoints your son again by not coming, are you prepared to put him on notice that you will not continue having this happen, and if it does again, visits will cease and AH can apply to a court for future access.
He is mad at you for telling son the truth, duh....maybe he could try doing that himself?
I feel for your son who every time he is let down, gets the message from AH that "his dad doesn't really want to be with him". I also feel for you, having to go thru watching it happen over again.
God bless
If he is sane, then deliberately setting his son up for continual upset, no show and disappointment is cruel and calculated abuse.
As for the dinner dates that just do not happen, give up on anything changing there.
If he makes another date for dinner, don't even bother dressing...just dine at home. If he manages to front, and asks why you didn't arrive, just your shrug shoulders and say you "forgot".
I agree with LaTeeDa, in that he has stuffed up so many visits and events with his no shows, that he gets a list of when your son is free to see him, and commits to a time in that list.
If AH disappoints your son again by not coming, are you prepared to put him on notice that you will not continue having this happen, and if it does again, visits will cease and AH can apply to a court for future access.
He is mad at you for telling son the truth, duh....maybe he could try doing that himself?
I feel for your son who every time he is let down, gets the message from AH that "his dad doesn't really want to be with him". I also feel for you, having to go thru watching it happen over again.
God bless
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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I don't think you are doing anything wrong.
My xah is the same way. I did eventually give him a list of visitation for the entire year. Of which he ranted and raved about me doing - and does not follow in any way, shape, or form. I backed down on the schedule because my kids are so sad and so now he gets them whenever he asks, regardless of the schedule. I have rearranged our plans for that when it is OK to do so but if something major was planned I wouldn't. It doesn't really matter because, just like your situation, he doesn't show up and can't be reached. I no longer tell the little boys when he says visits will happen and I only tell the older boys if they out right ask.
Last week he emailed on Friday afternoon that he would be there on both Saturday and Sunday to pick them up and do something with them. He did not show up on either day and wouldn't answer his phone. Nothing new. I'm pretty sure he went golfing with his brother instead. The 9yo broke his elbow two weeks ago. I told him right away (when we were still in the doctors office) but he has not called the 9yo one single time to see how he's doing. He hasn't spoken to any of them since before that.
He lives 30 minutes away. His *&^#@* phone is still on my plan so the kids can call him - which is ending as of Monday btw.
And keep a log of it all. You never know when that might be useful.
ETA: I wanted to add that I no longer contact him to keep the schedule or to make arrangements etc. He gets in touch of me if he wants to see him.
My xah is the same way. I did eventually give him a list of visitation for the entire year. Of which he ranted and raved about me doing - and does not follow in any way, shape, or form. I backed down on the schedule because my kids are so sad and so now he gets them whenever he asks, regardless of the schedule. I have rearranged our plans for that when it is OK to do so but if something major was planned I wouldn't. It doesn't really matter because, just like your situation, he doesn't show up and can't be reached. I no longer tell the little boys when he says visits will happen and I only tell the older boys if they out right ask.
Last week he emailed on Friday afternoon that he would be there on both Saturday and Sunday to pick them up and do something with them. He did not show up on either day and wouldn't answer his phone. Nothing new. I'm pretty sure he went golfing with his brother instead. The 9yo broke his elbow two weeks ago. I told him right away (when we were still in the doctors office) but he has not called the 9yo one single time to see how he's doing. He hasn't spoken to any of them since before that.
He lives 30 minutes away. His *&^#@* phone is still on my plan so the kids can call him - which is ending as of Monday btw.
And keep a log of it all. You never know when that might be useful.
ETA: I wanted to add that I no longer contact him to keep the schedule or to make arrangements etc. He gets in touch of me if he wants to see him.
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Originally Posted by anvilhead 
limit your interactions with the ex to only that particulars about the next visit, nothing social, no lectures, no explanations.....treat like you are calling to schedule yard work or car repairs....nothing personal, just the issue, and when is the best time.
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switch to email was going to be my suggestion.
I have cut out 90% of the drama in my life by doing that.
It is seriously freeing.
And like the others have said, give him a list of when your son is available.
And document like crazy when he doesn't show.
I have cut out 90% of the drama in my life by doing that.
It is seriously freeing.
And like the others have said, give him a list of when your son is available.
And document like crazy when he doesn't show.
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*sigh* Thanks, Anvilhead. There were the expectations again...
Thumper, I'm so sorry about your son's elbow and your xah's lack of contact to his son. I hope he's (son) doing well and is able to enjoy the start of summer anyway.
Thank you guys so much. I especially like the advice about treating my contact with AH about visiting our son like making an appointment for car repairs, etc.
I'd tried contacting him by e-mail. No response. He seems to respond to text messages, at least for now. That at least has the benefit of my being able to cc my e-mail and print everything out.... I just briefly entertained the stupidest thought of adding unlimited texting to my phone plan, right now it costs me per message. *laugh*. Why the h*** should I pay when he's the one making it hard.
At the end of our conversation yesterday, he asked me to have our son call him that night, because he didn't want to call our house and have some one else answer the phone (we're living with my sister and my Mom is visiting). Coward. So at bedtime, I asked son if he wanted to call Daddy to say good night, of course he did, but of course no answer. My son no longer leaves messages. That will be the LAST time I ask my son if he wants to call AH.
Thumper, I'm so sorry about your son's elbow and your xah's lack of contact to his son. I hope he's (son) doing well and is able to enjoy the start of summer anyway.
Thank you guys so much. I especially like the advice about treating my contact with AH about visiting our son like making an appointment for car repairs, etc.
I'd tried contacting him by e-mail. No response. He seems to respond to text messages, at least for now. That at least has the benefit of my being able to cc my e-mail and print everything out.... I just briefly entertained the stupidest thought of adding unlimited texting to my phone plan, right now it costs me per message. *laugh*. Why the h*** should I pay when he's the one making it hard.
At the end of our conversation yesterday, he asked me to have our son call him that night, because he didn't want to call our house and have some one else answer the phone (we're living with my sister and my Mom is visiting). Coward. So at bedtime, I asked son if he wanted to call Daddy to say good night, of course he did, but of course no answer. My son no longer leaves messages. That will be the LAST time I ask my son if he wants to call AH.
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BTW, I had started to document the no show/no calls earlier this month. I think I missed a few, but now have a running log going of those and am now including times when son tries to call AH, and if AH actually calls back. (The last are getting fewer and fewer, because son is slowling starting to not ask anymore.)
This weekend at our camping trip I'm planning on taking a little mommy-son walk so we can sit and talk a bit here, chase butterflies, sit and talk a bit more; where I want to expand our tale about the prince with a sick daddy.
I'm not sure how restrictive to be on the available days and times. My son's and my schedules are fairly flexible now that school is out, play-dates are typically scheduled a week out, but I don't want AH to think that flexibility will extend into the school year... I will ponder this for a while.
Thanks, again!
This weekend at our camping trip I'm planning on taking a little mommy-son walk so we can sit and talk a bit here, chase butterflies, sit and talk a bit more; where I want to expand our tale about the prince with a sick daddy.
I'm not sure how restrictive to be on the available days and times. My son's and my schedules are fairly flexible now that school is out, play-dates are typically scheduled a week out, but I don't want AH to think that flexibility will extend into the school year... I will ponder this for a while.
Thanks, again!
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As per usual, Anvil strikes again....
My heartfelt agreement with all suggestions.
How you keep your cool with this selfish, uncaring and self-centred moron, when he lets your son down time after time, I do not know, but I'd like some of it.
Frankly I would be scheduling plenty of activities for son over the hols, as if he waits for dad to call or actually show up, the lad could be waiting his time away. If other fun is planned, when dad cuts out again, your boy has alternative arrangements in place and if dad objects....tough luck.
You could ask your XAH for recent photo, as it has been so long you both have forgotten what he looks like. Or you just need a new target for the dart board.
God bless
My heartfelt agreement with all suggestions.
How you keep your cool with this selfish, uncaring and self-centred moron, when he lets your son down time after time, I do not know, but I'd like some of it.
Frankly I would be scheduling plenty of activities for son over the hols, as if he waits for dad to call or actually show up, the lad could be waiting his time away. If other fun is planned, when dad cuts out again, your boy has alternative arrangements in place and if dad objects....tough luck.
You could ask your XAH for recent photo, as it has been so long you both have forgotten what he looks like. Or you just need a new target for the dart board.
God bless
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Originally Posted by Jadmack25
You aren't saying anything wrong at all, just listening to a load of codswallop, from someone who is either playing games with you and your son, or needs a psychiatrist.
I've saved AH's voicemail. Not sure if it will be any support if things get even more bizarre, but... I'm seriously starting to think he's coming unhinged. Can not drinking for 2 months turn an A into a paranoid delusional? I'd swear he's drinking again, but his sis says she doesn't think so...
Any way... I don't think I've kept my cool, but writing it out definitely helps me calm down.
Originally Posted by Jadmack25
If he is sane, then deliberately setting his son up for continual upset, no show and disappointment is cruel and calculated abuse.
Originally Posted by Jadmack25
If AH disappoints your son again by not coming, are you prepared to put him on notice that you will not continue having this happen, and if it does again, visits will cease and AH can apply to a court for future access.
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i am sorry you are dealing with such an ass.
i would also suggest letting him know that when HE wishes to visit his son, HE can contact YOU. YOU need to be between your husband and your son, so the boy doesn't get dashed when the dad doesn't show. that is so heartless to do to a child. i also would not give the son permission to call daddy, if you can manage that, because it just is a study in rejection for this poor little guy.
if he is not drinking, but also not doing anything to manage his stuff, it makes sense that he's unglued.
i would also suggest letting him know that when HE wishes to visit his son, HE can contact YOU. YOU need to be between your husband and your son, so the boy doesn't get dashed when the dad doesn't show. that is so heartless to do to a child. i also would not give the son permission to call daddy, if you can manage that, because it just is a study in rejection for this poor little guy.
if he is not drinking, but also not doing anything to manage his stuff, it makes sense that he's unglued.
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My axw lives 4 hours away (thanks HP) and has supervised visitation facilitated by her mom, which is where LMC (Little Miss Coyote) stays during standard visitation, ie summer vacation, spring break, Christmas vacation etc..
Axw lives a few blocks away from her mom, simple walking distance. Last Christmas, a 2 week visit, netted LMC exactly 3 visits from mom, for a total of a few hours.
You know, I don't get it. But I've come to realize, although I'd be there 24/7, mom's not me.
Recovery has taught me that the things that happen in our lives aren't necessarily good or bad, WE assign those values to things.
As per the serenity prayer, I can't change someones behavior, but I can change MY perception of it.
I have come to view axw's seeming lack of interest in her daughter, kind of as HP's will. I mean really, if contact with an active alcoholic is so damaging for US, what must it be like for a little kid?
Although I know LMC is a very bright little kid, and on some level must be hurt by her mom's lack of contact, perhaps in "the bigger picture" it's a good thing.
JMHO.
Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
Axw lives a few blocks away from her mom, simple walking distance. Last Christmas, a 2 week visit, netted LMC exactly 3 visits from mom, for a total of a few hours.
You know, I don't get it. But I've come to realize, although I'd be there 24/7, mom's not me.
Recovery has taught me that the things that happen in our lives aren't necessarily good or bad, WE assign those values to things.
As per the serenity prayer, I can't change someones behavior, but I can change MY perception of it.
I have come to view axw's seeming lack of interest in her daughter, kind of as HP's will. I mean really, if contact with an active alcoholic is so damaging for US, what must it be like for a little kid?
Although I know LMC is a very bright little kid, and on some level must be hurt by her mom's lack of contact, perhaps in "the bigger picture" it's a good thing.
JMHO.
Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
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I was going to ask if there is a visitation order in place and if not, could you get one. Then it is set and everyone can plan around it. Otherwise, you are at the mercy of his whims and your son's hurt and anger along with your own.
Take control over what you can and let go of controlling others. It works much better.
The professional advice I had been given and took was this- let the kids have their own relationship with the other parent and don't interfere or take responsibility for it. When you do interfere the focal point becomes you for everyone else to blame - get out of the way. It sounds like you want to facilitate a father-son relationship - but what does the father want? Look at his behavior.
You also have to stop apologizing! A wise friend once reminded me that we are apart for a reason - why would I think anything would be different between us besides space? If you can't talk things through - do your best and move on. Let him take responsibility for what he wants.
And yes, I understand the kids' get sad but if you don't try to explain it or take his place, the child will grow up knowing what to expect of his father and what not to expect. My children learned that they can love their father and spend time with him (at his place)- but not to count on him. I am the one they consider to be their parent and call my place their home. No blame, just reality. And the best part is that they don't complain to me. (BTW - mine are adults now and have given me a lot of feedback on how I handled things and for the most part are happy)
Take control over what you can and let go of controlling others. It works much better.
The professional advice I had been given and took was this- let the kids have their own relationship with the other parent and don't interfere or take responsibility for it. When you do interfere the focal point becomes you for everyone else to blame - get out of the way. It sounds like you want to facilitate a father-son relationship - but what does the father want? Look at his behavior.
You also have to stop apologizing! A wise friend once reminded me that we are apart for a reason - why would I think anything would be different between us besides space? If you can't talk things through - do your best and move on. Let him take responsibility for what he wants.
And yes, I understand the kids' get sad but if you don't try to explain it or take his place, the child will grow up knowing what to expect of his father and what not to expect. My children learned that they can love their father and spend time with him (at his place)- but not to count on him. I am the one they consider to be their parent and call my place their home. No blame, just reality. And the best part is that they don't complain to me. (BTW - mine are adults now and have given me a lot of feedback on how I handled things and for the most part are happy)
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AH has apparently been telling all who will listen that I'm keeping our son away from him, while neglecting to admit to the his recent string of no-shows - I received a nasty call from SIL about letting AH see our son and that he has a right as the father to see him, especially now that he's not drinking.
I have an appointment for next Tuesday to discuss divorce and custody/visitation issues with a justice center (local advocacy office). The first thing I would like to set up is kind of an interim visitation schedule (not sure what the legal term is) to be put in place while I file for divorce.
HP, I am so tired of this.
I have an appointment for next Tuesday to discuss divorce and custody/visitation issues with a justice center (local advocacy office). The first thing I would like to set up is kind of an interim visitation schedule (not sure what the legal term is) to be put in place while I file for divorce.
HP, I am so tired of this.
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I have been documenting the failed visitation events for about a month. I hadn't really kept track of it before because he was so gone most of the time that he rarely even bothered to call. I wish I had, but I didn't so I'll keep going from here.
I must admit that I was floored by SIL's call. She had been such a great support by making the arrangements to get AH into the 28-day treatment program, while he was gone and just after his return. I know she went through a nasty divorce and custody issues with her daughter's dad (nearly 20 years ago) and I think AH's calls to her triggered that experience. I was so taken back by her call that I didn't even think to mention the number AH's no-shows.
I must admit that I was floored by SIL's call. She had been such a great support by making the arrangements to get AH into the 28-day treatment program, while he was gone and just after his return. I know she went through a nasty divorce and custody issues with her daughter's dad (nearly 20 years ago) and I think AH's calls to her triggered that experience. I was so taken back by her call that I didn't even think to mention the number AH's no-shows.
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