queenteree

I still stand by what my earlier post said, and I feel very sad for your SS. From what I gather from your most recent post, your RAHX? is going to continue his EOW visition at his mom's and leave you to "play single mother". Well, IMO, it is what it is, it is his son, HE wants to spend time with him, is trying to come up with the best solution for all concerned, and NOTHING is making you happy, except WHAT YOU WANT, which IMO is very, very controlling and selfish.

LaTeeDa

Wow is all I have to say.

It doesn't really sound like you want him to present his case and change your mind, it sounds more like you want him to present his case so you can shoot it down in flames and further enhance your own superiority and righteousness.

You spent all those words complaining about RAH's family, SS, RAH, etc. But, you still never said what it is you want. What do you want?

BTW, I agree that counseling would be a good idea for you. Not necessarily to prove RAH is right, but to help you with your (obvious) issues. At least they are obvious to me, perhaps because they have been my issues, too.

I'll shut up now.................

L

Luvmy2girlz

Hmm...well I definitely do NOT wanna be selfish and controlling, so if that's the case then I would surely want to change it. The problem is, I am just not seeing it? Would you mind elaborating a little bit more on how it makes me selfish and controlling because I wanted to try and introduce SS to the picture? I was willing to put my discomfort aside (which XRAH causes) and make an effort to try and have SS spend time around us, get to know us, and us get to know him? Even though Every Single time I've done this, I get nothing but criticism for being "just polite" and not acting "excited enough" to see him? Nothing I ever do seems good enough? If XRAH cant cram him down our throats, and me be ecstatic about it, then I'm selfish. He wants me to give 100% and him give nothing. How is that a compromise?

If we split up and I got with a new guy who had a son (esp a teen), I would feel the same exact way. I would want gradual introductions and definitely no overnights etc until we were ALL comfortable around each other (IF I would ever even agree to that at all). It's not about "not accepting" the guy as a package deal...it's about what's best for my kids (AND the other kid as well). And I do separate the adult relationship from the parenting relationships for the most part. Of course, it's probably unlikely that the new guy and his mother would gang up on me everytime afterwards to tell me I wasnt paying enough attention to the kid.

And my whole descriptions about the differences between mine and XRAHs families was really only for reference. To know where we are both coming from and how our morals were formed. I suppose if its judgemental and self-righteous to believe that there is a right way and a wrong way to conduct yourself and to parent, then I will proudly own that no matter who dislikes it. I get nothing but unending compliments about how amazing, bright, well-behaved, well-mannered, and pleasant my girls are to be around. My own sister says they are "freakishly" well behaved and brilliant (academically), and I'd say we spoil them rotten and shower them with affection while keeping firm parenting methods in place. BUt that takes hard work and determination. It doesnt just happen. I am constantly involved and guiding and assisting every step of the way. I can honestly say that even with my education and career etc, my proudest accomplishment is being their mother. I dont just hand that title and my services out freely to just anyone with a smidge of blood relation.

My hope for my adult relationship is that I can actually BELIEVE things that XRAH tells me. Aside from each of our parenting duties, the only way it will work between us is if he is not playing a martyr game and is open and honest with communication. How is it my fault that this situation blew up, when he lied to me from the start when we agreed to it? I really truly do want to understand how I am viewed as selfish and controlling, besides just people blurting those words at me.

MovingForward

I have to agree with LTD and the Queen. You have obvious control issues and need to see a therapist.

My parents split when I was 10 - 12 (separation and then divorce). They both remarried within a couple of years after the divorce and are still married (30 years later). I am grateful for my step-parents, step-grandparents, step-aunts & uncles - I was never treated like anything other than a biological child/grandchild.

If you look at your situation with an open mind, you might be able to build a loving relationship with your step son. Your daughters may even like having a big brother. You stated that you don't know him. Maybe you should get to know him.

Sounds like your RAH? is probably sick and tired of you running the show and wants to step up and be the dad he now knows he can be.

Calling names (SS's "loser mother") just shows that you are harboring resentment and have no clue how to act like an adult. JMHO.

Good luck to you.

Luvmy2girlz

IceIt, thanks for joining, and I can see from where your perspective was formed and it makes sense why you would answer that way. I'm glad for you that you had that sense of family for a good 10-12 years before your parents split, and it sounds like they continued to parent you (just separately) and nobody pushed anybody out of their role because they were your step-whatever. So you know all of them, were close to them, etc (sort of like my mother's upbringing with her SF and half-sibs). I'm happy for you that all that worked out. Not sure where the addictions came in for you, but clearly, a very very different scenario than I've been living. But thanks anyway.

Thumper

I'll start with this. "so far, he just wants me to go to counseling". Why on earth would you not got to counseling? My advice is to RUN to the counselor. There are tons of communication issues here and counselors are fabulous in getting couples to work out communication issues.

I'm going to pick apart the post a little and play devils advocate. Not because I am trying to say you are wrong (you have some very valid concerns) but just to spin it a little so you can see it from a different direction. I can also maybe relate a little more to your husband in some parts of this story even though I am not an alcoholic.

I'm like your husband here. I have tremendous difficulty verbalizing my opinion and defending it. If you are anything in real life like you come across in your posting style, you are bold and aggressive. 'present a 'side'...'dare him to change his mind'. Bold and aggressive isn't necessarily bad, but it might not work to well for him. I went to a couple counseling sessions with my xah and she said that this type of communication dynamic is very fixable within a counseling context - when the addicted spouse is in recovery. Yours is, mine wasn't so I didn't do it .

This makes me a little sad because I think my xah felt betrayed too. It isn't so much that you should be held accountable but that you are aware now. Both your feelings are valid. Consider this....... He has stated his opinion on how he feels (albiet not in a good/clear way) and your reaction to that is feeding right back into the previous issue. You are not taking his opinion and valuing it, you seem hostile towards it.



People change their mind about things. Everyone has the right to change their mind as they grow (and recovery must bring lots of growth), as circumstances change, etc. You want him to have an opinion but you are totally mad at him for having one that you don't like.

Of course he needs to speak for SS. All parents feel that way don't they? Just like you are a voice for your daughters. He's defensive because he feels like he needs to defend him - which he does need to defend him because you do not want him as part of your family. Can you see how you are setting up the 'team' atmosphere?

This is where a bold and aggressive personality might run over the top of your partner and he agrees to something he doesn't really like because he is not equipped to stand his ground - or he is just being manipulative for the sake of it but you haven't said that. This is where a counselor would be invaluable. FWIW - your plan really doesn't make a of sense to me and sounds like not only a big PITA for your partner but cuts short his already very limited time with his son. Why would it make one bit of difference to you where SS spends the night on Friday night?

Also - IME the behavior at the zoo seems very typical of a 14yo hanging out with the family - especially little kids and a step parent that is annoyed.

I would imagine your xrah was under an enormous amount of stress as well, maybe even more then you since he was caught between a son, two little girls he loves, and a partner that is gritting her teeth and enduring a miserable time. I'm feeling stressed just reading about it. Stress overload can result in meltdowns for people of all ages.

I can't picture that either.

Your idea here sounds good. It is possible that your xrah is so overwhelmed with the constant argument and inability to get his view across, find a solution, that he just doesn't want to deal with it and will keep the status quo. He separates his son from the rest of his family, at a price. Again - a counselor might help.

And the reality is you have a blended family with a recovering alcoholic that you have already divorced. You might have to re-write your vision of normal peaceful life.

Best of luck. You have a lot to deal with. I hope this isn't to harsh or triggered. I'm sitting on the side of the forgotten son so I know some parts of it triggered me but wanted to respond anyway. Maybe I shouldn't have but take what you want and leave the rest!

LaTeeDa

I could go back through your posts and pull out a bunch of quotes that quite obviously demonstrate selfishness, control, judgment, and self-righteousness, but I doubt it would do any good or shed any light. I was once in that mindset as well, and I could rationalize and justify my attitudes and behaviors ad infinitum....

example: all those nasty things I said about his family were only for "reference," lol.

Anyway, a good therapist helped me see my role in the suffering I was experiencing. It has been difficult and scary to face the ugly, shadowy parts of myself, and I still have much work to do. But, I have to say that my life is infinitely more peaceful and joyful since I have changed my perspective from that of being the victim of all these "others" and taken responsibility for my own life circumstances. When you are ready, when the pain of staying the same becomes greater than the fear of changing, you will change.

L

NYC_Chick

So, what will it take for you to be comfortable with his child on your house? Also, what proof do you actually have the ss will harm your daughters? It seems the more detail you give that this child's badness gets worse, which justifies the underlying fact that you don't want him to be part of your lives period.

Luvmy2girlz

Thumper, I like how you responded and even seem able to see my view, even coming from the perspective of the other side of it.

You make me ponder, especially the one point...that when XRAH finally did come clean with his true feelings, I threw it back at him for betraying me...which he COULD have potentially just changed his mind (even though that wasnt the case here) and we would still be in the same spot. So yes I will think about that.

Of course, the way he "came to tell me his true feelings" was more in the way of calling me a bunch of mean evil names and saying he was basically considering ditching this family (me and the girls), and he started sending me mean texts and voicemails, covering issues like "you realize SS will be moving in with me right" and "get my cell phone off your plan" and "you better figure out what to tell the girls, cuz we are NOT telling them that we just dont get along" (he wants them to hear his full version of the jerk he thinks I am??) .....therefore, I did react protectively over my kids, and feel reminded how things were before he got sober, and how he did this sort of thing with total disregard for the kids' feelings.

My biggest aversion to counseling is that nobody can ever understand the unique circumstances we are in. People so quickly want to give a canned answer, tell me to just let SS completely into our home as if it wasnt excruciatingly uncomfortable (for him too I imagine), and we've BEEN to so many counselors. Let's see...one that I really loved, and felt so much better after seeing (she was the one who clued me in that I was enabling AH's lack of parenting by doing it for him, and that if my help was unwanted, then I needed to back off) but XRAH hated the advice she gave me cuz he didnt want to do the parenting! Then another one, well I think it was the third or fourth visit? The truth came out that AH had been lying to me about going to AA meetings....he got caught up in his story and ended up just admitting it right there in the session....so yah, here again I thought us going to counseling was really helping - NOT. Another counselor several years ago told us that AH did not have a drinking problem, but that *I* had a problem with his drinking and that's what we needed to focus on. Bottom line is, they are just people too. So they bring their own life experiences as well, and I sorta feel that ours is complicated enough with just the 2 of us???

Oh, and regarding XRAH speaking for SS...what I meant was, literally. Like, for example if SS was over, and I asked him what he wants to drink, XRAH will answer for him or talk over him. Or worse, if SS says something, XRAH will jump in afterwards with some kind of elaboration, "explaining" further what SS meant?? It's very odd. I mostly just keep my mouth shut and try not to say much. I surely dont grit my teeth!! OH gosh no! I smile, make small talk about neutral subjects, boy do I put it on. Not overly, but considering what I really feel, it's quite the opposite. It is XRAH and his mother who grit their teeth and glare at me...observing me as though they just cant wait to criticize me after. And I was really let down that day at the zoo, because I was looking forward to it. I felt we were starting our "plan" that we came up with together. But it went downhill pretty quickly when he tried to add on to the end of it, putting me on the spot trying to alter what we'd agreed. And the way we parent our girls does NOT include them being able to just walk off when we have our backs turned...it is this "different parenting for different kids" in FRONT of our girls that I dislike.

I suppose I could entertain trying again?? But he HAS to acknowledge the level of discomfort it causes to make us all be together. He cant just be mad at me because I'm uncomfortable? to the point that he just agrees to arrangements that he will hold against me later? If he cant stand it and wants out, then he needs to SAY that and GO. He is not being FORCED to stay here. But this is my house (in my name) so if anyone is leaving, it will be him. And if he just dislikes who I am, then I would WANT him to go. The last thing I want is more conforming and blame. It would be sad to have my girls lives torn apart because of the way XRAH chose to handle the mess with his son, but I feel like I have TRIED to be agreeable and come up with plans toward change.

One last thing I guess, is the role XRAH's mother plays in all of this. She is definitely making it worse. She and XRAH seem to believe that SS needs "rescuing" from his horrible home life, where he lives with his mother, his SF who has raised him since age 2, and their 2 younger kids (the older one is out of the home). They dont do things how I would, but that doesnt make it wrong...half the planet has their type of household! But SS gets the pity reaction he wants from XRAH and grandma by saying how mean and evil they are to him. Mind you, they have rules! How awful. They punished him for writing the four letter F word 4 feet tall on a wall in their house! The nerve! And to top it off...anytime SS whines and complains to XRAH about his own mother, XRAH sympathizes with him, agrees that he knows what she's like, and jumps on the bandwagon to bash her!

So regarding our plan including grandma not absorbing the remainder of the visit, I think as long as SS gets to take advantage of grandma for the entire weekend, he will evenutally just say that he doesnt even want to spend the day with our family? How can our real life family even compare to having carte blanche in grandma's big huge house? No sibs, no rules, no supervision. I even said "let's do it more often then" so that the total face time is the same (who cares about sleep time?). And I think XRAH needs to actually BE the parent and quit letting his mother fill in the gaps. She doesnt need to stay away completely, she is close to him and Should have SS over! But dont guilt XRAH about not being there too - let it be HER time with SS. I dont know...these are just ideas, of ways to make it more healthy. If XRAH would even PRESENT an opinion, or alternatives or SOMETHING, we could work with it. But I get nothing from him. So yes, I agreed to again try a counselor...but I really prefer that we go discuss OUR issues, and not parenting issues, at least to start. Why even bother with resolving the SS stuff if XRAH doesnt even like who I am or want to be with me? ya know? I dont even know what to think, since what I THOUGHT I had for the last couple years, was obviously just a game to him.

Luvmy2girlz

I suppose the last point I will add is that what alcohol as to do with all this, is that it is my belief that XRAH's behaviors all those years with regard to this ugly situation with his son (and I mean the ugliness that began with his conception before I was even in the picture as well, which I was told by XRAH and his family) was directly related to him being an addict. I think that no sane mature rational adult would ever handle things the way he did, and twist things so badly, that even I ended up manipulated by the whole thing. Thanks again to all.

NYC_Chick

Terminal uniqueness will only keep you stuck. Counselors have a lot of experience with all kinds of families. This is not that unique.

LaTeeDa

You seem to have lots of ideas and suggestions about how other people should behave. The grandmother, the XRAH, the SS, etc. A counselor can help you with ideas and suggestions about how you can change your behavior in order to help the situation. But, if you are not open to "accepting the things you cannot change," or "changing the things you can," then you are right, it would be a waste of time.

L

FormerDoormat

I believe the words people choose have meaning. So keeping that in mind, this makes me feel so incredibly sad for the child in question:

"and I mean the ugliness that began with his conception"

LaTeeDa

Just one more thing, from the perspective of a former "freakishly well-behaved child." I wasn't that way because of loving, nurturing parents. I was that way because of unreasonably high expectations, repression, judgment, and fear. It's taken decades of suffering in my adult life to come to terms with that.

L

sesh

I'm curious here, didn't you say you have degree in pshychology? So what's a problem here? Nobody is as perfect as you?

Reading this thread my head is just spinning. I have to ask what is it that you want?
All I see here is you wanting to control everything and everyone and have them all fitted in your perfect little world. I don't think your atitude is healthy to anyone, not even your own daughters.
Congrats to your H for his sobriety, it doens't sound you're making it any easier on him. Why not be proud of him, for trying to make things right with his son? Why not want him to have the same kind of relationship with his son as he does with your daughtes?
Personally I don't see anything so unique about your situation. I just see a woman who wants everything her way, and is very disrespectful of everything else.
I think the way you speak about SS, RAH and his family is mean.
We are all just people, we all have our faults, nobody is perfect, including you and your daughters.
If I were you I'd start some work on myself as soon as possible.
Maybe start it by asking yourself: Where is this need for perfection coming from? Where is this hatred coming from? This anger?
What is it that you are so afraid of?

NYC_Chick

I'm also with everyone else in regard to being the perfect child. My father is an alcoholic. My mom a typical co-redependant until she divorced him and got help. Growing up with this set up resulted in two types of kids. My sisters got into a lot of trouble growing up, resulting in financial and other trouble later. My dad would disown them when this happened and, by default, me too. He ruled with an iron fist. I never made mistakes because I knew the consequences. It took me years to understand no one is perfect and that making mistakes was ok.

I think I'm triggered by this because I was disowned so much. I find it disturbing that because this kid is upsetting your balance, you want your husband to toss him aside. You were not duped. You are kidding yourself if you think you are right. Good or bad child, he deserves a father who loves hiim, just like your daughters do. I really hope this child soars as time goes on. We all deserve that.

ElegantlyWasted

WOW... You make my issues seem so simple. Seems like "Dry Drunk" behavior to me. Did/does he work any kind of program? He was acting to get you back and wants you as an enabler again? Do whatever you have to for yourself and kids; I know its not pretty, but I'm sure there is a best course that takes you to a great place.

Bolina

I'm not really understanding the "duped" bit......surely, the son came first in terms of family chronology. Is that what rankles?

Anyway, let's get back to first principles:

Awareness
Acceptance
Action

in that order.

You are AWARE that your partner has a 3 children. At present 2 of them live with him, one lives elsewhere. Your partner is married to neither of the mothers of the children (is that right?). And you are AWARE that he is trying to maintain/build a relationship with all of his children.

Can you accept the above? And I am sure there are lots of other things that you are aware of, but let's keep things simple for now. Can you truly accept that this is the situation? With some peace and clarity? Because ACTION is futile until you do.

I am very grateful to the counsellor my ex and I had who made very sure that we each had our space to speak, and that the other was actively listening at that time. He was a great hurt/frustration/anger/bs - English translator.

My heart goes out to all of you in this difficult situation, but I confess to more of a twinge for the son. Poor kid.

Thumper

You are upset that he is disregarding your children (and that is valid) but you are *asking* him to disregard the feelings of his other child.

Then you haven't found the right counselor.

He's also considerably older so parenting will be different based on that alone. He will be parented different. He simply will be. You are not his parent so you can't parent him, maybe if he was 3yo but certainly not at 14yo. His dad may treat him different then his girls because their history is different. He moves between homes so his needs will be different pure and simple. Is this OK or is that a deal breaker? Soul search that question.

Is he already gone?

The way to get more healthy is to eliminate every sentence in your post that has to do with what someone else is doing. You get healthy by framing everything with what *you* need and what *you* can do to achieve that. Leave the rest of it to the people that own it.

Sure. That makes sense.

Be careful not to blame the 14yo for this. Honestly, he sounds like an innocent bystander getting caught up in the middle of the adult's 'stuff' - and there seems to be a boat load of stuff to work out. It is easy to target him because the current issue is one surrounding him but he is not the problem. You and your rxah would have the very same relationship problems even if he left the picture.

Bolina

I've thought a bit more about this and want to share some E, S & H.

My XA had a son from a previous marriage - they split up when he was about 2. He lived an 8 hour drive away and, given that my ex is terrible with money, he didn't spend much time with his father. My ex had been married again subsequent to being with the boy's mother and had some "serious" relationships on top of that (yeah, great catch, I know!). Also, his mother had had some relationships after the divorce. So, the boy, had a procession of partners appearing and disappearing from his life and, whilst I have no doubt that his parents loved him, they didn't really see love as an action word, iykwim. He was an adjunct to their lives, even for his mother with whom he lived.

So, I appear on the scene. Late 20s, never been married, no kids and no experience of being a step-whatever. But he was my partner's son. And he was a child. With a chaotic life. I am from a very stable background, like you. Parents still together despite tough times, no divorce in the family, even the extended one.

And, you know what? I wanted to show that boy that life didn't have to be like he had experienced it up to now. I encouraged (and paid for) more trips to see him. I enforced boundaries in our home, because that's what loving parents do. I bought him things to keep at our house, so that he felt like this was partly his home too. I involved him in the decision making when he stayed at our place. I encouraged him to help with the laundry, or the grass cutting, or the cooking of the meals. I included him in activities with my own family. Because that's all what families do. But I never tried to be another mother to him. He already had one of those. But I tried to be a friend, just an older one who paid the rent and that meant that my word was a lot more final than his.

I loved him. And made that an action word. It wasn't always easy, in fact we had lots of tears and tantrums at times. But I stood firm, because I was the adult and he was the child. And we ended up with a great relationship. A better one than the one he had with his dad, if truth be told, although the bond was obviously different.

Sadly, we don't have contact anymore for various complicated reasons. But I hope that he looks back at our time with fondness. And I hope I gave him some insight into a life so very different to the one he was born into. Out of the unholy mess that was the relationship with his father, the one part of which I have no regrets at all is that which involved his son.

Just wanted to share. *sobs a little bit*