not an alcoholic, but....
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 223
Originally Posted by bret 
I am just tired of the dog and pony show of "I'm too sick to....." .
And yeah, you are unsympathetic and cold--you are an ex. It goes with the territory. What does he expect?
And if he thinks you are being 'meeeeeeeeeen', he can tell it to the judge.
If he's not on SSDI (social security disability), then he's not too sick to work and pay support.
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 17
Wow, good advice here. I did the right thing to drop by. But I have a question now. At first I thought people dealing w/alcholics wouldn't relate to this problem, but I realized that they most certainly would.
What do you do if the person calls and begs you for help? My fear is that this will happen at some point...and it might be real. Something like it already happened once.
What do you do if the person calls and begs you for help? My fear is that this will happen at some point...and it might be real. Something like it already happened once.
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
If it was over the phone I'd just be silent and say "Oh, that is to bad." - not smart alecky but just really, that just sucks ya know. Then I'd say good bye and hang up. Ife he asked something I'd keep the answer super short - like 'no'. lol.
I almost exclusively communicate by email now and that makes it a little easier because I can delete and ignore.
I almost exclusively communicate by email now and that makes it a little easier because I can delete and ignore.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Texas
Posts: 28
Originally Posted by bret
What do you do if the person calls and begs you for help? My fear is that this will happen at some point...and it might be real. Something like it already happened once.
If he has a medical emergency, he should hang up and dial 9-1-1!
Just my 2 cents!
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: minneapolis, mn
Posts: 2,762
bret,
welcome to the friends & family forum.
i have several thoughts regarding your situation.
some of us are here, in part, to learn to set boundaries.
some of us are here to learn to comfortably say "i'm sorry you're having a hard time. i hope things turn around for you."
all of us are here because we were becoming sick as well.
my uncle is probably what you have in your ex. every time something serious pops up in his immediate family, he gets "sick", often to be hospitalized. it keeps the attention right where he wants it. i'm completely sure that he doesn't even realize what he's doing.
i think it's like many afflictions of the mind: we discover truths at our own pace. confrontations, discussions, and ultimatums do not get us closer to those truths.
most of us here have also thought, "what if he's really in trouble this time?" or "what if he o.d's?" we try and try to protect and save them, but it's really futile. people that are set on self-destruct mode will stay there as long as there is a pay-off.
welcome to the friends & family forum.
i have several thoughts regarding your situation.
some of us are here, in part, to learn to set boundaries.
some of us are here to learn to comfortably say "i'm sorry you're having a hard time. i hope things turn around for you."
all of us are here because we were becoming sick as well.
my uncle is probably what you have in your ex. every time something serious pops up in his immediate family, he gets "sick", often to be hospitalized. it keeps the attention right where he wants it. i'm completely sure that he doesn't even realize what he's doing.
i think it's like many afflictions of the mind: we discover truths at our own pace. confrontations, discussions, and ultimatums do not get us closer to those truths.
most of us here have also thought, "what if he's really in trouble this time?" or "what if he o.d's?" we try and try to protect and save them, but it's really futile. people that are set on self-destruct mode will stay there as long as there is a pay-off.
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 223
Originally Posted by bret
What do you do if the person calls and begs you for help? My fear is that this will happen at some point...and it might be real. Something like it already happened once.
There are two schools of thought on this: one is you can give them a list of professionals and programs, and one is to trust that if he wants to change enough, he will find the professionals and programs himself.
I lean towards the second philosophy. My ex had HORRIBLE mama boy problems. Huge unresolved mommy issues. She was/is an awful mother. She designed his entire life to suit her needs and he grew up responsible for her emotions and her happiness. He's AFRAID to upset her. He is sacrificing his whole life because his mommy wants to keep him close and neeeeeeeeds him and is weak. And if he doesn't kowtow to her, she will withdraw all love and actively seek to destroy his life as much as she can; she broke up our marriage, has been successful at turning his brothers against him, ran his father out of his life, taken his college money and spent it on herself, and has undermine him with his kids. Granted he let her. As our marriage was dying I insisted he get momma boy therapy; he said he would. He never did.
I could have set it up for him, but what was the point? So he could sit there sullenly and say, I don't know why I'm here, my wife hates my mother. I'm convinced his drinking is caused by how trapped he is by her and how afraid he is to upset her and how it's destroying his life and stealing the things he wants most. (He's convinced all his problems are because of me). Whatever, the man desperately needs therapy.
I think it's best that they sit down at the computer or with the telephone and make their own appointments and select their own treatment.
But i also don't think it hurts anyone if on ONE occasion you hand him a list of resources he might not be aware of and hand him the phone and leave him alone in the room to make the commitment or not. Sometimes people don't seek help because they don't know where to find it, so give him the map--but understand he's the one who has to walk it.
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
Originally Posted by bret
What do you do if the person calls and begs you for help? My fear is that this will happen at some point...and it might be real. Something like it already happened once.
I agree with this statement from Bucyn:
Also on weekends he doesn't want his daughter (whatever the reason legit or not), don't give him his daughter. Your daughter deserves to be wanted. And if he's 'burdened' by her being there he will take it out on her, one way or another.
I believe it is worth repeating.
When I divorced, I divorced because the relationship was no longer healthy for myself or my children. I divorced to take better care of myself and my children. The divorce does not magically turn my ex into a better parent. My forcing the ex to be an active parent is manipulation. My children need to be with a parent that wants to spend time with them.
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 17
All good comments again....
I'd like to get more thoughts about what I need to tell my daughter about hypochondria. She is only five but is picking up on things quickly. Incidentally, it is now termed "health anxiety" because in at least some circles, it is believed to be a form of OCD.
I don't want to tell her Daddy is sick (he already tells her that enough).
And I should add: he is not NOT sick. He has had some problems, and right now I am not sure exactly what they are. However, a very sharp psychologist told us both that you can be a hypochondriac AND have a health problem.
I'm thinking of something like this:
Everybody has problems with their bodies sometimes.
It's important to understand your body so you know what feels right. Sometimes if you wait a while, a pain or a bad feeling will go away. Sometimes your body hurts when something else is bothering you, and you need to talk about it. Maybe you don't want to go somewhere or do something.
But if you say your body is hurting and something else is really bothering you, nobody can help you--not the doctor or Mom or your friends. You need to find what is bothering you so you can talk about it, and then you can solve the problem.
What, if anything, should I say to her about her dad's sickness?
I'd like to get more thoughts about what I need to tell my daughter about hypochondria. She is only five but is picking up on things quickly. Incidentally, it is now termed "health anxiety" because in at least some circles, it is believed to be a form of OCD.
I don't want to tell her Daddy is sick (he already tells her that enough).
And I should add: he is not NOT sick. He has had some problems, and right now I am not sure exactly what they are. However, a very sharp psychologist told us both that you can be a hypochondriac AND have a health problem.
I'm thinking of something like this:
Everybody has problems with their bodies sometimes.
It's important to understand your body so you know what feels right. Sometimes if you wait a while, a pain or a bad feeling will go away. Sometimes your body hurts when something else is bothering you, and you need to talk about it. Maybe you don't want to go somewhere or do something.
But if you say your body is hurting and something else is really bothering you, nobody can help you--not the doctor or Mom or your friends. You need to find what is bothering you so you can talk about it, and then you can solve the problem.
What, if anything, should I say to her about her dad's sickness?
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
Originally Posted by bret
I'd like to get more thoughts about what I need to tell my daughter about hypochondria. She is only five but is picking up on things quickly. Incidentally, it is now termed "health anxiety" because in at least some circles, it is believed to be a form of OCD.
What, if anything, should I say to her about her dad's sickness?
What, if anything, should I say to her about her dad's sickness?
Anxiety Disorders - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information
Or our forum for Mental Health:
Mental Health - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 17
OK, here are some boundary attempts:
If you or your girlfriend (hypo carries it to others as well) has a medical emergency, do not contact me. Contact the appropriate professionals. I will do the same.
I do not want to hear any more statements that begin with "I'm too sick to...." I feel manipulated and used when I hear them. I also don't want to hear the details of your medical condition. You need to work out your medical situation on your own, and I will do the same.
If you want to discuss health anxiety with a friend, I WILL discuss with you.
I will be educating our daughter on "health anxiety" (what they call hypochondria in medical community these days) and discussing how we treat people who are sick and what we need to consider when we are sick. When we are sick, our goal is to be as well as we possibly can, which means that we follow doctor's orders, take medications when we are supposed to, look for healthy coping behaviors like exercise and taking walks, get counseling when we receive recommendations for it. When many doctors tell us that we are well and we still don't feel well, we need to work to discover how we can learn to live with the problem.
When we are caring for someone who is sick, we can help that person by listening, by providing some physical comforts, and encouraging that person to be as well as possible. But that person is ultimately the one responsible for his own health.
So I have one last thought as I reel with this:
What if it IS a medical problem that he has? What if the man DOES have cancer or something? Because I am not married to him any more and detached, I have no idea what his medical situation might actually be. I know enough of his history to be suspicious of any "diagnosis" that he reports, but at the same time, I have wrestled with compassion vs. some tough love.
If you or your girlfriend (hypo carries it to others as well) has a medical emergency, do not contact me. Contact the appropriate professionals. I will do the same.
I do not want to hear any more statements that begin with "I'm too sick to...." I feel manipulated and used when I hear them. I also don't want to hear the details of your medical condition. You need to work out your medical situation on your own, and I will do the same.
If you want to discuss health anxiety with a friend, I WILL discuss with you.
I will be educating our daughter on "health anxiety" (what they call hypochondria in medical community these days) and discussing how we treat people who are sick and what we need to consider when we are sick. When we are sick, our goal is to be as well as we possibly can, which means that we follow doctor's orders, take medications when we are supposed to, look for healthy coping behaviors like exercise and taking walks, get counseling when we receive recommendations for it. When many doctors tell us that we are well and we still don't feel well, we need to work to discover how we can learn to live with the problem.
When we are caring for someone who is sick, we can help that person by listening, by providing some physical comforts, and encouraging that person to be as well as possible. But that person is ultimately the one responsible for his own health.
So I have one last thought as I reel with this:
What if it IS a medical problem that he has? What if the man DOES have cancer or something? Because I am not married to him any more and detached, I have no idea what his medical situation might actually be. I know enough of his history to be suspicious of any "diagnosis" that he reports, but at the same time, I have wrestled with compassion vs. some tough love.
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Join Date: Sep 2009
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It sounds like his hypochondria is rooted in an anxiety disorder, but unfortunately, if you can't get him to see that, then you can't get him to see that (just like with alcoholics--you can't make them see their issues or make them change).
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Originally Posted by bret
So I have one last thought as I reel with this:
What if it IS a medical problem that he has? What if the man DOES have cancer or something? Because I am not married to him any more and detached, I have no idea what his medical situation might actually be. I know enough of his history to be suspicious of any "diagnosis" that he reports, but at the same time, I have wrestled with compassion vs. some tough love.
What if it IS a medical problem that he has? What if the man DOES have cancer or something? Because I am not married to him any more and detached, I have no idea what his medical situation might actually be. I know enough of his history to be suspicious of any "diagnosis" that he reports, but at the same time, I have wrestled with compassion vs. some tough love.
L
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 17
Yes...that's true; I guess what I am thinking is that if that were the case, and I knew it, I would be more cooperative with him without feeling taken advantage of.
The problem is that he has taken advantage for a long time (and yes, I did allow it).
The problem is that he has taken advantage for a long time (and yes, I did allow it).
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 223
Originally Posted by bret
What, if anything, should I say to her about her dad's sickness?
I'm thinking maybe discuss real versus imagination. she's five, she should understand imagination and reality are different. She imagines her doll is real, but she KNOWS it isn't. Well, daddy imagines he's sick when he's not. Sometimes he forgets what's real and what's imagination. I know and the doctors have told me that he's not sick--oh, he gets a cold once in a while, just like you do, but he's not seriously sick. Everything he has, he will get better from. But it worries him too much just like (mention something she worries about but should't). If he ever gets hurt or seriously sick, I will tell you.
I think it's important to keep an open dialogue with her because people like your ex use sickness not only to get out of responsibility and to elicit expressions of love and concern and for attention, but also to get other people to take care of them. It's not unheard of for some parents to so abdicate responsibility for themselves, they expect children to act in the role of their parents. My MIL used my ex that way from the time he was eight, maybe earlier. His need to take care of her is ruining his life.
Keep an eye out for this; don't let him train your daughter into codependence.
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Join Date: May 2010
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Well, had a C session.
I am starting to realize that I need to figure out a way to cope with the fact that I may never know how "sick" X is, which reports I get have some truth to them and which are exaggerations for manipulation. What I get with him is a mixed bag.
I'm not sure that I should ignore his comments about health altogether. I did say that I feel manipulated and that when X is "sick," somebody still has to deal with day to day realities.
I am starting to realize that I need to figure out a way to cope with the fact that I may never know how "sick" X is, which reports I get have some truth to them and which are exaggerations for manipulation. What I get with him is a mixed bag.
I'm not sure that I should ignore his comments about health altogether. I did say that I feel manipulated and that when X is "sick," somebody still has to deal with day to day realities.
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Join Date: May 2010
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Well, financial situation has hit the fan for X and he is crying bankruptcy and health issues when I am entitled to a child support increase.
I should add to this story. X moved out and in with another woman who seems to be willing to deal with his cryin' the blues. I was very hurt by this and do not want to appear vindictive. At the same time, this is kind of the consequences of his actions, you know? If he had not been off in la-la land, this potential would have been pretty obvious. Not only that, this is coming from a person who made fun of me for being cheap. Truth of the matter is that I am sitting in a pretty good situation while he cries the blues.
Here is my question: How do I address the "I'm going bankrupt" sighing and crying without sounding like a beyotch? I realize I can't take care of his feelings while holding my ground, but at the same time, I am back to feeling manipulated.
I was going to say one thing. I have a bonus (which I would have to report as income anyway) so I can soften things a little by telling him that I have it and say that this has been stalled because of it (which is fair from a legal standpoint) but add that he is going to need to make preparations in the event that I do not get a job for a while.
Curious to hear what is said here....
I should add to this story. X moved out and in with another woman who seems to be willing to deal with his cryin' the blues. I was very hurt by this and do not want to appear vindictive. At the same time, this is kind of the consequences of his actions, you know? If he had not been off in la-la land, this potential would have been pretty obvious. Not only that, this is coming from a person who made fun of me for being cheap. Truth of the matter is that I am sitting in a pretty good situation while he cries the blues.
Here is my question: How do I address the "I'm going bankrupt" sighing and crying without sounding like a beyotch? I realize I can't take care of his feelings while holding my ground, but at the same time, I am back to feeling manipulated.
I was going to say one thing. I have a bonus (which I would have to report as income anyway) so I can soften things a little by telling him that I have it and say that this has been stalled because of it (which is fair from a legal standpoint) but add that he is going to need to make preparations in the event that I do not get a job for a while.
Curious to hear what is said here....
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