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We're having a break.....

Old 05-06-2010, 10:04 PM
  # 41 (permalink)  
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"I expect he'll phone in the morning ..."

So if he doesn't call, will this be one more thing to be disappointed and hurt about?

People don't let us down... our expectations of those people are what let us down. You expected him to quit drinking for you. He didn't so you are let down. You expect him to understand the pain you are going through. He doesn't, so you are let down.

"I know there is a chance we will still work through this..."

There is no "we" here. There is no chance that you AND him will work through this. He's not doing any work at all. The sooner you realize this, the better off you will be. There is a chance, however, of you letting him get away with everything he is doing, and YOU working through this. Alone. Continuing with this relationship is in your hands, and your hands alone. When you talk like this, it's as if you have already decided that you will continue this dance with him.... you do realize that he isn't even on the dance floor with you, right?

Hugs to you, stay strong and focus on yourself. Do what's good and healthy for you!!
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Old 05-07-2010, 03:03 AM
  # 42 (permalink)  
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kitty - I wasn't hoping he'd call this morning, just saying I knew he would do. I know I have a long way to go to deal with expectations of people and I'm trying to get used to the fact that I can't expect anything of him at the moment. I haven't decided to carry on this dance with him - I just haven't decided definitely not to yet.

Having this 'break' (no matter to what degree of a break it is) is already giving me the chance to realise that I dont need to tolerate his behaviour. I have started to detach a little, and make some progress. I've seen that if I can just get through the initial discomfort after I realise he's lying or drinking or whatever, then it passes and I can get on with things. Before, I would always react immediately.
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Old 05-07-2010, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by iwantcontrol View Post
and it is a sad and horrible truth to come to terms with.
I know. It took me nearly 20 years and 2 children to come to terms with it. You have more information and tools than I had. I hope, for your sake, it doesn't take so long. Denying reality doesn't make it go away, it only prolongs the suffering.

L
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Old 05-07-2010, 08:25 AM
  # 44 (permalink)  
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I've seen that if I can just get through the initial discomfort after I realise he's lying or drinking or whatever, then it passes and I can get on with things. Before, I would always react immediately.

celebrate those baby steps!!!

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Old 05-07-2010, 10:18 AM
  # 45 (permalink)  
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It is as if your lives are two plants and each person has enough soil and water and sun to feed one plant.
He is giving all his soil and water and sun away to alcohol.
You are giving all your soil and water and sun to him.

You are left with nothing and you are withering away.

Wanting to curl up and watch tv and be numb.

All the obsessing we do with
What is he doing
What is he feeling
What is he thinking
Does he love me
Is he trying
Can he change
Is he being fair
Does he need me
What does he need
on and on and on about HIM.

There is no space left for you in your head or your life.

But there is a life waiting for you.
It requires you to stop REACTING to HIM and start ACTING for YOU.

Who do YOU want to be (not in relation to HIM)?
What do YOU want to do?
Where do YOU want to go?

He's not one of your limbs or your children or your siamese twin.
Life does not REQUIRE you to have him live in your mind rent free.
Life does not REQUIRE him to be in your life at all.
Life does not require you to mourn him.

Who are YOU?
What are YOUR dreams?

How 'bout after you make that list of all the ways he has jacked you (that's a good list), you make a list NOT about HIM?

How 'bout you make a list of the places you've always wanted to travel to
or the jobs you've always wanted to do and think about how to do them
or the skills you've always wanted to learn and how you can learn them
or the people you've always admired and how you can be more like them
or the places you've always wanted to live and how you can get there
or the kinds of people you've always wanted to hang out with and how you can meet them

or maybe you don't have a list of any of those things.

maybe when you go to make that list, it's blank.
maybe you have been OTHER centered so long you forgot there was a you there.

So okay.
Make ONE choice.
Pick ONE thing every day, perhaps randomly, that's NEW to do or learn about or try or go to.
And explore it to help you learn WHO YOU ARE.

You feel empty without him because you have forgotten there is a YOU to replace him!

This is a quote from a book Internal Affairs - A Journalkeeping Workbook for Self Intimacy by Kay Hagan.
"Without intimacy, we remain isolated, shut down, numb and estranged from life. Knowing the self - gently and respectfully learning who we are, what we want, how we feel, what we think - allows us to bring that knowledge and experience of loving intimacy to our relationships with others [and ourself]. In our self-intimacy, we have the opportunity to create the kind of relationship we most desire. We can treat ourselves the way we want to be treated. Do you know how this would be in your relationship to yourself?
Ask youself:
Do I share my thoughts and feelings with myself?
Do I nurture myself?
Do I trust myself?
Am I vulnerable with myself?
Do I pleasure myself and have fun with myself?
Do I accept myself? Judge myself?
Do I experience energy and intensity in my relationship with self?
Am I willing to be revealing with myself?
Do I truly listen to my own thoughts?
Do I spend quality time with myself, and do I make this time a priority?
Am I committed to myself?
Do I treat myself with respect?
Do I accept my feelings, whatever they may be?

"For most of us, it is easier to display these characteristics in our relationships with other people than it is with ourselves. In fact, we rarely consider what the qualities of intimacy is in our relationship with self or pay attention to it at all. This invisible presence in our lives is the most enduring and influential relationship we will ever have. And how we treat ourselves affects everything else we do.
"Spend a few minutes imagining an ideal evening. It might include a candle-lit dinner, a long bubble bath, a mystery novel, a walk in the moonlight, anything you like. Describe the evening in great detail. After you have completed your description, make a date to share this evening with yourself, and do it! After the evening, record your responses in your journal."

Hugs, Peace
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Old 05-09-2010, 01:57 PM
  # 46 (permalink)  
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IWC, how's it going?
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Old 05-10-2010, 05:14 AM
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FindingPeace: that was great, thanks for that :-)
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Old 05-10-2010, 07:14 AM
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It is going OK thanks. Iím not really sure whatís going on at the moment though. We had a chat over the weekend and I told him some of my fears, and why iíve been so worried lately. He said that he understands why Iíve been worried and explained (again) that he is rude sometimes because I know when heís been drinking and even if I donít have a go at him, there is an undercurrent of disapproval and he gets defensive as doesnít enjoy having faults pointed out etc etc. He said it is never my fault and I havenít done anything wrong. It was nice to hear him say that at least. He claimed that he is going to stop drinking (yes, I know, I can hear the sighs from here!!), but I know that even with the best of intentions that wont last unless he seeks proper help.

I am still looking out for me and doing what I need to for me. Trying not to get involved in his life. If he really wants to change he will prove that with his actions. I told him that in this time apart we should both be considering what we really want. I said that his drinking is stopping me from being able to be with him anymore and that if he really wanted to give it up he would be making the relevant arrangements, as it needs to be for him. Whether I said too much I donít know. Whether he even really listened, I donít know. Whether anything will actually change - maybe, but if it doesnít I am making sure that I will be OK.
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Old 05-10-2010, 12:43 PM
  # 49 (permalink)  
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How many chances does he get?
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Old 05-10-2010, 01:09 PM
  # 50 (permalink)  
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I am still looking out for me and doing what I need to for me. Trying not to get involved in his life. If he really wants to change he will prove that with his actions. I told him that in this time apart we should both be considering what we really want. I said that his drinking is stopping me from being able to be with him anymore and that if he really wanted to give it up he would be making the relevant arrangements, as it needs to be for him. Whether I said too much I donít know. Whether he even really listened, I donít know. Whether anything will actually change - maybe, but if it doesnít I am making sure that I will be OK.

Iwant.... this reminds me of how I would be thinking. I hope I verbalize this correctly, my mind is all over the place at the moment...lol

I would try to have adult conversations with my XA. And at the time, he would seemingly have them back. I would tell him the things that hurt me and why.....he seemed so understanding at the time. Would even apologize for things that he said that he knew hurt me. I thought this was proof that he really is aware of his actions, and that we could work through anything...even as "friends".
When I look back, I realize they were nothing more than conversations in which he could come across like he cared. He NEVER really cared.

Whether anything will actually change - maybe, but if it doesnít I am making sure that I will be OK.
This is the sentence that stuck with me because I would say "maybe things will change...BUT if they don't i'm just focused on me,"
No I wasn't. In saying that "maybe things will change"...I was still focused on things maybe changing. And when I realized they were not going to change...ever, then even more hurt and disappointment set in. It's that "but" in the sentence that allows you to hold on.

When he "apologized" to me. I said to myself, "he's going to have to prove to me that he's really sorry." Translated-- I am going to wait for him to prove to me, and I am going to expect him to prove it to me. Result- A world of pain all over again.

Everytime I even thought for one iota that things were changing, that he was sorry.....he proved once again that he wasn't. He didn't just prove that he didn't care, he then did the classic passive aggressive emotional abuse which I am not blind too, which meant he was purposefully trying to hurt me.

What I have come to realize is that truly focusing on me means not even wondering if things are going to change. It means literally cutting this person out of my life so that they do not exist to me anymore. Easy? No. Painful? Beyond belief.
There is absolutely no wondering anymore if he is going to change because he doesn't get a chance to anymore. There is no possibility of it. There is no wondering. I have been coming to terms with losing him for almost a year now....a riduculous amount of time for myself.... and it has taken so long because I always thought that "maybe he would change, maybe he would prove to me through his actions how sorry he is".

I've seen a couple of people make reference to allowing them to live rent free in your head.
Well, I was thinking about that today, and it's not rent free. It is something that costs me dearly, every single day. It is the highest price there is.

What I hope for you is that you eventually stop having to wrestle with this in your mind. And you can remove yourself completely from this cycle. It is a cycle. Removing yourself is the only way of ensuring your own sanity, well being and that is the ONLY way that you will be making sure that you are really OK.
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Old 05-10-2010, 03:56 PM
  # 51 (permalink)  
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You had the *same* conversation with him *again* this weekend?!

For the life of me, I can not figure out what is so endearing about him.

Tell me how this "We're having a break" thing works again?
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Old 05-10-2010, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Kittyboo View Post
[Iwant.... this reminds me of how I would be thinking. I hope I verbalize this correctly, my mind is all over the place at the moment...lol

I would try to have adult conversations with my XA. And at the time, he would seemingly have them back. I would tell him the things that hurt me and why.....he seemed so understanding at the time. Would even apologize for things that he said that he knew hurt me. I thought this was proof that he really is aware of his actions, and that we could work through anything...even as "friends".
When I look back, I realize they were nothing more than conversations in which he could come across like he cared. He NEVER really cared.

Whether anything will actually change - maybe, but if it doesnít I am making sure that I will be OK.
This is the sentence that stuck with me because I would say "maybe things will change...BUT if they don't i'm just focused on me,"
No I wasn't. In saying that "maybe things will change"...I was still focused on things maybe changing. And when I realized they were not going to change...ever, then even more hurt and disappointment set in. It's that "but" in the sentence that allows you to hold on.

When he "apologized" to me. I said to myself, "he's going to have to prove to me that he's really sorry." Translated-- I am going to wait for him to prove to me, and I am going to expect him to prove it to me. Result- A world of pain all over again.
Everytime I even thought for one iota that things were changing, that he was sorry.....he proved once again that he wasn't. He didn't just prove that he didn't care, he then did the classic passive aggressive emotional abuse which I am not blind too, which meant he was purposefully trying to hurt me.

What I have come to realize is that truly focusing on me means not even wondering if things are going to change. It means literally cutting this person out of my life so that they do not exist to me anymore. Easy? No. Painful? Beyond belief.
There is absolutely no wondering anymore if he is going to change because he doesn't get a chance to anymore. There is no possibility of it. There is no wondering. I have been coming to terms with losing him for almost a year now....a riduculous amount of time for myself.... and it has taken so long because I always thought that "maybe he would change, maybe he would prove to me through his actions how sorry he is".

I've seen a couple of people make reference to allowing them to live rent free in your head.
Well, I was thinking about that today, and it's not rent free. It is something that costs me dearly, every single day. It is the highest price there is.

What I hope for you is that you eventually stop having to wrestle with this in your mind. And you can remove yourself completely from this cycle. It is a cycle. Removing yourself is the only way of ensuring your own sanity, well being and that is the ONLY way that you will be making sure that you are really OK.

the chills I just got from your words here has been in shock!
This is my situation exactly, but a RABF.
He always tries to hurt me on purpose, it's just out of this world.
His pain is so deep, he needs me to hurt with him.

I need to make some serious moves
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Old 05-10-2010, 06:56 PM
  # 53 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by gerryP View Post
You had the *same* conversation with him *again* this weekend?!

For the life of me, I can not figure out what is so endearing about him.

Tell me how this "We're having a break" thing works again?
When we are not emotionally attached, it's not easy to see what others see in their loved ones. Just like people cannot see what I see in my BF and what I cannot see is some of the men that the women talk about her and in my group.
It's not for us to really see
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Old 05-10-2010, 07:11 PM
  # 54 (permalink)  
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Summerpeach -HUGS (and I love your name)

There are only a handful of times when I can say with certainty that his intention was to hurt me in some fashion....

One was right after we slept together for the last time the night of his drunken car accident(after he was barely spending any time with me to begin with....and also right before he decided to go back to his ex), but the morning after...right after eehhummm (no details needed) we were laying there, and he actually said these words "Christine is going to kill me"....
He had never mentioned this girls name before...and I said "Oh? Who's Christine?"...
And he said "Oh. just a girl from high school here, i've been hanging out with her a bit".

Why I did not slap him across the face right there and say NEVER speak to me again I will never know. Oh wait...because I still refused to believe that he was the liar he turned out to be.
It was CLEAR passive aggressive emotional abuse.
That was actually the "adult" convo I had with him later bringing that up and telling him how that made me feel... and he was oh so understanding and said "I know, I don't know why I said that, she's actually the girlfriend of a friend and she was always bugging me to get together and catch up, I only saw her once". Funny how the story changed. It's the in your face abuse, followed with kind words later that keeps someone in a state of denial and confusion....always wanting to see the best in them.

And the second time was when I initially turned down his request to be friends again (though I went back and forth with that and sent myself into an emotional tailspin)...well, he did another clearly covert passive aggressive move and made one of his photo albums visible on facebook....(I was not his friend, so he had to change his settings to make it viewable) the album was of him and his girlfriend at his families ranch and he was teaching her how to shoot.
This was significant because it was something he talked about doing with me.

His desire to hurt me, though well disguised, was right in my face. And something so hard for me to fathom he would want to do.
And because of those few actions, it actually makes me think that ALL of his actions have some manipulative tendancy to them.... I couldn't help but think that the only reason he "apologized" to me was to try and give himself the opportunity to refuse my response and turn it around on me....which he did.

And the painful struggle, what I have been internalizing all of this time is that he actually chose to treat me that way, yet do whatever he could to get his ex to come back to him....he went to spend time with her and flew to be with her family. I've put A LOT Of my self-worth on this.
And I just imagine if he actually didn't go back to his ex when he did....how much longer I would have waited around for him, how much more I would have put up with. How much worse I would feel about myself now.
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Old 05-10-2010, 07:14 PM
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Wow, Kittyboo, I'm with SummerP, it's incredible how all of that went down in my relationship, too. Thank you for your words, they are so well said. Yup, the same conversations, I thought I was "understood" and that the apologies were so real and heartfelt...and I'm not saying they weren't, but they were so NOT about me, they were about my ex keeping things status quo. Gawd, the late-night hours-long conversations that were repetitive, predictable and senseless. All that time tossed into the abyss...I'm so grateful to be investing my time/money/energy in things other than that relationship!

I'm pondering the "rent free" comments. Yes, they're costing me dearly, though I find that I'm learning about myself if I keep the focus on MYSELF and not wander into the neighborhood of "how much my ex must be hurting." Lots for me to sleep on tonight.

iwant, I know you're hurting. Hugs.

posie
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Old 05-11-2010, 03:30 AM
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thanks so much for sharing your experiences. Mine is scarily similar with the heartfelt conversations and the understanding, then the complete disregard and hurting of feelings. The thing is right now, that he is really fed up of it all too Ė he says how we cant go on arguing like this and that something needs to change and we need to work at it or end things. Much as I know I play a role in the problems, it is him that causes most of the arguments by being rude to me or getting drunk. I donít see what I can do to change these things Ė all I can do is not engage with him when heís starting an argument. He says that he is all over the place at the moment with his health problems etc and that he cant deal with our fragile relationship Ė he wants to know if we are properly together or not, and we both need to stop saying that we might as well break up every time we argue. I totally agree with that Ė itís both of us that do it.

We rarely argue when weíre together or when he stays with me at the weekend and we both get on with our own things as well as spending time together. We only have these problems during the week when he is usually drinking or doing nothing. I get so fed up with him not moving things forward and looking for work or just doing what he can to get better. I canít help thinking that if we did live together things would improve, but I know that is probably a bad idea as it wont solve the underlying issues. It would get him away (a bit) from his area and the Ďmatesí he hangs around with sometimes. It would maybe give him a fresh start to work on his problems. Its not a good idea though when things are rocky like this is it? Every weekend I cant help thinking that if things stayed like that he would get better. Thatís me being stupid isnít it? My head is all over the place at the moment.
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Old 05-11-2010, 04:51 AM
  # 57 (permalink)  
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Bad idea. VERY bad idea. If the relationship is in trouble now, it will only get worse if you live together. Plus, then you will be stuck and getting away (not that if appears you ever intend to actually do that) will be much more complicated. He can't run from his drinking problem. It will follow him wherever he goes, and if that means he is living with you, it will be the huge elephant in the room with both of you. His mates don't hold him down and pour the alcohol down his throat. He makes a conscious decision to drink.

As always, you are going to do whatever you are going to do, but moving him in with you won't give you any more control. In fact, it will give you LESS control. It will only bring his problems right into your face 24/7.
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Old 05-11-2010, 04:56 AM
  # 58 (permalink)  
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it's not stupid, but it is denial.

i don't believe that intelligence has very much to do with matters of the heart. we are emotional creatures, and our belief systems are very ingrained in us. our upbringing has influenced us greatly, and it's hard to relearn what to believe in.

ask yourself this, iwant: is your man an alcoholic?

if the answer is yes, then him getting work, him sharing an address with you, will not make him not.

you are perhaps doing what many addicts do - try to change something so that the awful truth is really not true. the something that changes, is the thinking along with a different behavior. the truth is still the truth.
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Old 05-11-2010, 05:29 AM
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As I found out for myself, on 3 separate times. Moving in with an A, them moving in with you, or moving in somewhere new together does not change them for the better.

I saw that when I was legally bound to a lease with then abf, he behaved like he had it made....I was stuck there and he could do, and did just as he pleased.

I suggest instead of wondering about it all as you are, that you just move in with him and let him do whatever he wants....til you get totally sick and tired of him and his damned behavior...and you then move out and get away from him at long last.

I wish you all the luck in the world....you will need it all.

God bless
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Old 05-11-2010, 05:52 AM
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Thanks for all your honest opinions. I did suspect I would get that reaction, and Iíve always said that I wouldnít live with him until he was in recovery and our relationship was working well. I want to be excited about moving in with someone, not wary. Thanks for giving me a nudge in the right direction. My thinking has obviously become a little blurred at the moment. Part of me still thinks it would help him, but would it help me? Probably not.
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