My Dilemma
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: VA
Posts: 85
My Dilemma
Hi - so as I've written before, my AH is still living in the house because there isn't a legal way to get him out and I refuse to leave my house. AH doesn't have a vehicle, money or a job. That part really doesn't bother me anymore - really it doesn't. I just go about my business as if he's not here. I moved into my older daughter's room who is away at college and have kind of fixed it up so that it is rather comfortable. I wasn't sure what I was going to do about when she came home for summer break but that actually got resolved yesterday when she told me she got a full-time summer job where she goes to school and wasn't coming home.
Here's my dilemma though. I've planned a trip to the beach over the Memorial day weekend, and he doesn't know about it. When I originally made the plans, it was before he was fired from his job and on a weekend he was working so I didn't have to worry about him wanting to come with us. Now that he's not working, I obviously still don't want him to come with us. The kids probably do, and its going to be hard to leave for the weekend without telling him. I thought about telling him I was going with a friend and her son and that when I made the plans he was scheduled to work - he'd believe me because I've gone away on weekend trips before with her and her son. But, she's not going and never was. So - not sure what to do. Tell him we're going and he's not invited? Tell him we're going with my friend? Don't tell him at all and just leave? This would be a lot easier if he wasn't still living here. I generally haven't been keeping him up to date on mine or the kids plans - not that it matters because he ends up forgetting anyway - but this is a whole weekend. He'd probably notice that.
I know this sounds crazy, but I'm now at the point where when he screws up (often) I don't face these dilemmas because I feel less obligated to include him. My friend told me she caught him on Friday walking to the liquor store and brought him home. He denied he was and further denied having any money (I know he's stashed money somewhere) - I just told her that I honestly didn't care and that every time he lies, drinks, whatever, it just reaffirms that I don't need or want to be with him. And, I really didn't - I was happy. My youngest whispered in my ear that he was doing something strange and whether that meant he was drinking - I told her that it didn't really matter.
I've got a second dilemma as well. I'd really like to start going out, maybe dating again. I don't have anyone specific in mind. But, I've effectively been alone for 10 years other than a brief period a year ago when I believed he was trying to stay sober (but was merely doing a better job of hiding it and I was in a spot where I was too willing to believe it). I've found I don't like being around drunks at all, even the non-alcoholic types so hitting the bars is out. Most of my family know about the issue with my AH, but I haven't come out and said I consider us to be separated to other than to my Mom and Dad and a few close friends. So, if I do start dating its going to look like I'm having an affair.
Here's my dilemma though. I've planned a trip to the beach over the Memorial day weekend, and he doesn't know about it. When I originally made the plans, it was before he was fired from his job and on a weekend he was working so I didn't have to worry about him wanting to come with us. Now that he's not working, I obviously still don't want him to come with us. The kids probably do, and its going to be hard to leave for the weekend without telling him. I thought about telling him I was going with a friend and her son and that when I made the plans he was scheduled to work - he'd believe me because I've gone away on weekend trips before with her and her son. But, she's not going and never was. So - not sure what to do. Tell him we're going and he's not invited? Tell him we're going with my friend? Don't tell him at all and just leave? This would be a lot easier if he wasn't still living here. I generally haven't been keeping him up to date on mine or the kids plans - not that it matters because he ends up forgetting anyway - but this is a whole weekend. He'd probably notice that.
I know this sounds crazy, but I'm now at the point where when he screws up (often) I don't face these dilemmas because I feel less obligated to include him. My friend told me she caught him on Friday walking to the liquor store and brought him home. He denied he was and further denied having any money (I know he's stashed money somewhere) - I just told her that I honestly didn't care and that every time he lies, drinks, whatever, it just reaffirms that I don't need or want to be with him. And, I really didn't - I was happy. My youngest whispered in my ear that he was doing something strange and whether that meant he was drinking - I told her that it didn't really matter.
I've got a second dilemma as well. I'd really like to start going out, maybe dating again. I don't have anyone specific in mind. But, I've effectively been alone for 10 years other than a brief period a year ago when I believed he was trying to stay sober (but was merely doing a better job of hiding it and I was in a spot where I was too willing to believe it). I've found I don't like being around drunks at all, even the non-alcoholic types so hitting the bars is out. Most of my family know about the issue with my AH, but I haven't come out and said I consider us to be separated to other than to my Mom and Dad and a few close friends. So, if I do start dating its going to look like I'm having an affair.
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: europe
Posts: 624
Hi, my situation is pretty similar to yours.
Re: your trip dilema, the way I deal with it is : I pack myself and kids and when acctually leaving though the door I say: We're off for the weekend. If he asks any questions about where to or whatever I answer them. He never asked if he could come along, but if he did I wouldn't have a problem telling him I don't want him to.
And for your other dilema, I've no idea honestly. But I know what does it feel like to miss having someone by your side who acctually cares about you and is affectionate to you, being intimate with someone (gosh I almost forgot what does it feel like)
But if you feel you're ready to date again, maybe why not. But than again I think I personally would feel better to have it completly over and done with my AH before doing that, not because I owe him anything but because I can't handle any more drama in my life.
Re: your trip dilema, the way I deal with it is : I pack myself and kids and when acctually leaving though the door I say: We're off for the weekend. If he asks any questions about where to or whatever I answer them. He never asked if he could come along, but if he did I wouldn't have a problem telling him I don't want him to.
And for your other dilema, I've no idea honestly. But I know what does it feel like to miss having someone by your side who acctually cares about you and is affectionate to you, being intimate with someone (gosh I almost forgot what does it feel like)
But if you feel you're ready to date again, maybe why not. But than again I think I personally would feel better to have it completly over and done with my AH before doing that, not because I owe him anything but because I can't handle any more drama in my life.
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,868
Have divorce papers been filed? Are you just waiting until it is final until someone has to move? In either case, I'd go ahead and take the kids on your vacation and leave him at home. Regarding the dating, IMHO, you shouldn't date until you are divorced. If you are not planning to divorce, what's the point of dating? If you have filed and are just waiting for it to be final, you dating someone else could be used against you in that divorce. Also, even though you feel like you have been living alone for 10 years, you haven't been. You are still legally married and it's hardly fair to someone else to be dating if you are not truly available. Of course, this is just my opinion. I just think dating while you are still married is a bad idea. If you want to date, get a divorce.
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
I would just go on the trip and not worry about it. Tell him you and kids are going and go. If he actually asks to come along say no. Saying no to an estranged spouse going on a get away with you is reasonable and expected even if he is living with you.
Have you filed for divorce? Personally, I could not date while I was not only married but still living in the same house as my husband, no matter how extranged we were. That is way to complicated and I'm not sure I would want to date a man that was OK with dating a woman still living with her husband ya know?
He can maintain the status of unemployed, non driving, alcoholic FOREVER so don't wait around for that to change. As a matter of fact, waiting for that to change before divorcing, or forcing him to move out, is probably a guarentee that it will never happen.
Where I live you can file for temporary custody and temporary use of the marital home at the same time you file for divorce. The permananty custody arrangment and final agreement of assets are hammered out in the divorce proceedings but temporary orders are generally pretty easy to get. If it seems reasonable (you and kids stay in house, he moves is usually reasonable) they are generally easy to get here. That would force him to move. Maybe speak with your attorney about that. Know all your options. You don't have to be stuck in this stressful limbo
Have you filed for divorce? Personally, I could not date while I was not only married but still living in the same house as my husband, no matter how extranged we were. That is way to complicated and I'm not sure I would want to date a man that was OK with dating a woman still living with her husband ya know?
He can maintain the status of unemployed, non driving, alcoholic FOREVER so don't wait around for that to change. As a matter of fact, waiting for that to change before divorcing, or forcing him to move out, is probably a guarentee that it will never happen.
Where I live you can file for temporary custody and temporary use of the marital home at the same time you file for divorce. The permananty custody arrangment and final agreement of assets are hammered out in the divorce proceedings but temporary orders are generally pretty easy to get. If it seems reasonable (you and kids stay in house, he moves is usually reasonable) they are generally easy to get here. That would force him to move. Maybe speak with your attorney about that. Know all your options. You don't have to be stuck in this stressful limbo
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: VA
Posts: 85
Unfortunately, I cannot file for divorce unless we are separated for 12 months. And, I asked the attorney about a separation agreement and she said unless he's willing to enter into one that's not going to be of no use. I'd be better off if he were abusive (not that I want that) because it would be easier to force the issue. Even if I did, I'd likely have to support him - and I'll take the current situation any day over having to pay him alimony.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Well, it's obviously your choice to handle things the way you see best. But, two things I know about the state I live in:
1) Alimony is not forever. It is based on the length of the marriage, so the longer you stay, the longer you would have to pay it. Still better than living with him forever, in my opinion.
2) In my state, you can file a statement declaring a date of separation, even if you are still living under the same roof. You simply declare, under penalty of perjury, that you are no longer "together" as husband and wife. I would think this would especially apply in a state that requires separation before divorce.
I don't know what state you live in, or if either of these things might help you. Maybe they are options you hadn't considered.
L
1) Alimony is not forever. It is based on the length of the marriage, so the longer you stay, the longer you would have to pay it. Still better than living with him forever, in my opinion.
2) In my state, you can file a statement declaring a date of separation, even if you are still living under the same roof. You simply declare, under penalty of perjury, that you are no longer "together" as husband and wife. I would think this would especially apply in a state that requires separation before divorce.
I don't know what state you live in, or if either of these things might help you. Maybe they are options you hadn't considered.
L
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 693
stbxah stayed in the house until the day it sold--and we were considered separate (not legally--that is a totally different thing in the state I live in). But he told the court he was self employed so he resided in the house 9-5 M-F and the took visitation there (even though he was not supposed to--that was for the sake of the kids--not him). My state only requires that you are "officially" not living together for 6 months. Once I filed for divorce and the temporary order was done saying I had possession of the house the clock started to tick.
Is he capable of working? Is he on disability for his alcoholism? If not and he can work but just is not (and this may be different in your state) you can ask your attorney to file a seek work order or if he went down the alimony road the court could determine how much he is capable of making based on previous employment which has shown he is capable of earning X dollars per year.
Is he capable of working? Is he on disability for his alcoholism? If not and he can work but just is not (and this may be different in your state) you can ask your attorney to file a seek work order or if he went down the alimony road the court could determine how much he is capable of making based on previous employment which has shown he is capable of earning X dollars per year.
Occasional poor taste poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
My knee jerk is don't invite him to the beach with you becasue you don't want him to go with you, period. Tell the kids you're going, they can join you if they want but he's not welcome. There's no law saying you HAVE to invite him. As for dating and not being legally separated or divorced, well that's just a bad idea IMO.
I sued my AW for divorce, had her served while we lived in the same house. Sure you have to wait 12 mos in VA if you have minor children before you file for divorce, but that doesn't mean you can't sue him for divorce. I moved into my sons room when he went to college and that started the separation clock. You sound like you're ready for change, I say pull the trigger on legal action, it will get the ball rolling and you out of this stalemate. Have you asked your lawyer to file for sole use of the marital home? How about you and the kids moving out?
Originally Posted by puckettcg 
Unfortunately, I cannot file for divorce unless we are separated for 12 months.
Occasional poor taste poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
Wow, just read a bunch of your posts. You and I were stuck in the exact same situation. In the state of VA you can not divorce your spouse if they are a drunk, but you can if they are a nasty drunk and cause disharmony in the home. Look, if you sit him down and tell him the marriage is over and he must leave, and if he doesn't you will pack up the kids and leave. Try to appeal to him that it makes no sense to uproot the kids but you are willing to do just that if he doesn't leave. Be ready to leave in case he refuses, maybe just temporarily. Yes it's gonna cost you money and yes you might even end up paying him alimony or writing a check for his share of the equity, but everyone seems to forget the state guidelines are just that, guidelines. Every divorce is negotiable and most are settled before the court date.
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
Can you have someone with you when you actually pack/leave? I got nervous when you said you were afraid of him noticing you are leaving. Please take care of yourself and call 911 if you ever feel threatened by this man.
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
Before I did anything ANYTHING else -
i'd take every valueable OUT of the house
put it in storage -=
bank deposit box-
because these addicts and alcoholics intheir disease -
STEAL.
so anything you want to keep -
get it OUT of the house.
THEN
you can go wherever youwant to go
and he can't retaliate.
When I moved to butte
i was living with yet another 'one of them'
and I simply TOLD him -
I am moving to Butte.
If you have YOUR HALF of the deposit
YOUR HALF of the utilities
YOUR HALF of the car insurance
YOUR HALF of the first and last month rent
and a way to NOT MISS EVEN ONE PAYMENT of
YOUR HALF of the food and everything EVERYTHING else...
...you can come.
If not - then you need to be finding a place to live
because I'm moving out of here on saturday.
And he was all like "Well I'll go take your horses into the mountains and dump '[em"
And I looked at him for the first time REALLY seeing him....
(threatening my horses was worse than fightin words - thems DYIN words)
and said -
"how you gonna do that? They're already gone."
"you don't have a car and my horses and horse trailer are already over there."
I'd moved them the weekend before
when he was too drunk in the bar to know.
Even 'the nicest guy in the world'
will steal anything he thinks matters to you
if he's got no other way to control you.
Just sayin.
i'd take every valueable OUT of the house
put it in storage -=
bank deposit box-
because these addicts and alcoholics intheir disease -
STEAL.
so anything you want to keep -
get it OUT of the house.
THEN
you can go wherever youwant to go
and he can't retaliate.
When I moved to butte
i was living with yet another 'one of them'
and I simply TOLD him -
I am moving to Butte.
If you have YOUR HALF of the deposit
YOUR HALF of the utilities
YOUR HALF of the car insurance
YOUR HALF of the first and last month rent
and a way to NOT MISS EVEN ONE PAYMENT of
YOUR HALF of the food and everything EVERYTHING else...
...you can come.
If not - then you need to be finding a place to live
because I'm moving out of here on saturday.
And he was all like "Well I'll go take your horses into the mountains and dump '[em"
And I looked at him for the first time REALLY seeing him....
(threatening my horses was worse than fightin words - thems DYIN words)
and said -
"how you gonna do that? They're already gone."
"you don't have a car and my horses and horse trailer are already over there."
I'd moved them the weekend before
when he was too drunk in the bar to know.
Even 'the nicest guy in the world'
will steal anything he thinks matters to you
if he's got no other way to control you.
Just sayin.
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
oh - I forgot something I said
when he said he'd take my horses -
it was the first time I'd ever said it and meant it literally.
"And that will be the last thing ... you EVER do."
I will NEVER forget the feeling of freedom and RELEASE
as I drove over the Continental Divide into Butte.
I go overboard sometimes I know
But it's because I want YOU
all of you to know that feeling SO BADLY.
when he said he'd take my horses -
it was the first time I'd ever said it and meant it literally.
"And that will be the last thing ... you EVER do."
I will NEVER forget the feeling of freedom and RELEASE
as I drove over the Continental Divide into Butte.
I go overboard sometimes I know
But it's because I want YOU
all of you to know that feeling SO BADLY.
Occasional poor taste poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
Originally Posted by barb dwyer
Even 'the nicest guy in the world'
will steal anything he thinks matters to you
if he's got no other way to control you.
will steal anything he thinks matters to you
if he's got no other way to control you.
[/thread derail]
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: minneapolis, mn
Posts: 2,762
the way i understand it, puckett doesn't WANT to leave her children's home. with minor children, i wouldn't either. he is an ass to not leave, but i get it - you cannot make him.
the holiday - i think the best way is what the other poster said: you pack up, make ready to leave, and perhaps sometime during that day, you casually mention that you guys will be gone from ____ to ____. your words and tone will cause him to understand (if he doesn't already) that he is not welcome.
the dating - my brother joined match just after he and ex-wife filed. it was an failry amicable divorce, he felt - like all of us - that the marriage was over long before that point. i thought he was crazy to jump into dating right away, and that he needed to be alone with himself, heal, before doing that. he dated quite a lot for awhile, it was pretty draining and dissapointing, he fell HARD for someone who broke his heart, and then he met the lovely woman he has been with for five years. he learned a lot during the dating time, and the heartbreak (about himself and what he wants) and it helped get him to the point he was when he met the right one.
we learn experientially.
we can't just read self-help books, or go to meetings, talk to friends. we have to learn to be healthier by PRACTICING, imo. just like teens and young adults learn how to be in relationship by having several b/f or g/f's, i think we messed up older folks do as well.
but
i do not think it's appropriate to date 1. while you're married 2. while you have young kids in the home. just my opinion.
those kiddos have been through a lot. they need your full attention, especially during the transition of their dad leaving the home. it is WAY too easy to start getting wrapped up in another man, or other men (with casual dating) and you need to be present to your children. again, my 2 cents.
the holiday - i think the best way is what the other poster said: you pack up, make ready to leave, and perhaps sometime during that day, you casually mention that you guys will be gone from ____ to ____. your words and tone will cause him to understand (if he doesn't already) that he is not welcome.
the dating - my brother joined match just after he and ex-wife filed. it was an failry amicable divorce, he felt - like all of us - that the marriage was over long before that point. i thought he was crazy to jump into dating right away, and that he needed to be alone with himself, heal, before doing that. he dated quite a lot for awhile, it was pretty draining and dissapointing, he fell HARD for someone who broke his heart, and then he met the lovely woman he has been with for five years. he learned a lot during the dating time, and the heartbreak (about himself and what he wants) and it helped get him to the point he was when he met the right one.
we learn experientially.
we can't just read self-help books, or go to meetings, talk to friends. we have to learn to be healthier by PRACTICING, imo. just like teens and young adults learn how to be in relationship by having several b/f or g/f's, i think we messed up older folks do as well.
but
i do not think it's appropriate to date 1. while you're married 2. while you have young kids in the home. just my opinion.
those kiddos have been through a lot. they need your full attention, especially during the transition of their dad leaving the home. it is WAY too easy to start getting wrapped up in another man, or other men (with casual dating) and you need to be present to your children. again, my 2 cents.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: VA
Posts: 85
Its kind of stressing me out - should I tell him, not tell him, if I do tell him when do I tell him. I've decided I don't want him to come with us, as that would be a bigger stressor.
Partially, its guilt. Is that normal? He's not an abusive drunk, and some of it is actually a little sad and pathetic. I feel bad for the guy. Today, as I was driving home from the gym, I was thinking that even though he's not really drinking right now (he would if he could but lack of funds does damper his ability to drink), I still don't want to be around him because of his utter lack of self esteem and complete unwillingness to do anything. I know he's depressed, but he's on meds and he does absolutely nothing except lay around, read books, watch Sci-Fi movies and sometimes do the dishes or laundry. I know that if I tell him he's not invited, he's going to be very hurt.
I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm not even angry anymore; I've accepted who he is and I've accepted that he's probably not going to do anything about it. I've taken trips without him before, so I don't know why I feel guilty this time.
Thanks for everyone's posts. I don't want to leave my home. I've moved into my daughter's room and started the separation clock.
Partially, its guilt. Is that normal? He's not an abusive drunk, and some of it is actually a little sad and pathetic. I feel bad for the guy. Today, as I was driving home from the gym, I was thinking that even though he's not really drinking right now (he would if he could but lack of funds does damper his ability to drink), I still don't want to be around him because of his utter lack of self esteem and complete unwillingness to do anything. I know he's depressed, but he's on meds and he does absolutely nothing except lay around, read books, watch Sci-Fi movies and sometimes do the dishes or laundry. I know that if I tell him he's not invited, he's going to be very hurt.
I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm not even angry anymore; I've accepted who he is and I've accepted that he's probably not going to do anything about it. I've taken trips without him before, so I don't know why I feel guilty this time.
Thanks for everyone's posts. I don't want to leave my home. I've moved into my daughter's room and started the separation clock.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
I'm so happy for you that you took action (moving into another room) towards making a change. Good for you. Baby steps get us farther than huge leaps, sometimes.
Ya, I think the guilt is normal. I know that I sometimes feel a lot of guilt when I make decisions in my best interest that other people don't like. It's just a part of living, IMO.
L
Ya, I think the guilt is normal. I know that I sometimes feel a lot of guilt when I make decisions in my best interest that other people don't like. It's just a part of living, IMO.
L
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: minneapolis, mn
Posts: 2,762
i know the guilt is normal. if we didn't have such caring hearts, we would be in these messes!
you cannot take care of yourself, and someone else, simultaneously. the two actions contradict each other.
i love that statement, because i heard it at a turning point for me. it was when i started setting boundaries, and sticking to them.
puckett, you have to choose. it's HARD, but only with practice, does it become easier. one day you will look back and say "wow".
i too had a husband who didn't drink very often. yet i still knew he was alcoholic. his drinking reasons, and his behaviors, made it so. he never lost a job, never (or rarely, don't know) drank at home, he was respectable in the church and school community, and my family, etc. but there was a disconnect, buried hostility, and a hole inside of him.
you deserve to move forward with your life, for your sake and your childrens'.
i'm sure that when you all are packing up and loading the car, it will be crystal clear to him. besides, are you not both aware that you are separated? separated people don't vacation together.
you cannot take care of yourself, and someone else, simultaneously. the two actions contradict each other.
i love that statement, because i heard it at a turning point for me. it was when i started setting boundaries, and sticking to them.
puckett, you have to choose. it's HARD, but only with practice, does it become easier. one day you will look back and say "wow".
i too had a husband who didn't drink very often. yet i still knew he was alcoholic. his drinking reasons, and his behaviors, made it so. he never lost a job, never (or rarely, don't know) drank at home, he was respectable in the church and school community, and my family, etc. but there was a disconnect, buried hostility, and a hole inside of him.
you deserve to move forward with your life, for your sake and your childrens'.
i'm sure that when you all are packing up and loading the car, it will be crystal clear to him. besides, are you not both aware that you are separated? separated people don't vacation together.
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