Holding on to the pain
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
To Kittyboo and LaTeeDa: I really appreciate how you handled your misunderstanding. I wish more misunderstandings I witness in life would be resolved the way you ladies resolved yours. It is obvious that you both understand we all come from different places and we are all just trying to help one another. Bravo to both of you!
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: europe
Posts: 624
I think it is great you're becoming aware of the mechanism that's making you hold on to your pain. Being aware of the cause makes it so much easier to deal with the situation. I'm pretty much the same, I always need to find out what exactly inside of me if making me feel the way I'm feeling.
And coming back to forgivness, I don't really know what to say about it, except it all depends on what you consider forgivness to be. If you consider the forgivness to be something that's says: Ok, I forgive you, it doesn't matter what you did, there is no way in hell I'd ever forgive my AH. But if I consider forgiveness to be: What you did is terrible, but I'm forgiving you because I'm a greater person that can see beyond your misery, and I'm doing it for myself, as I want to cut free from all the nastiness, drama and pain you've put me trough, than I'm much more likely to forgive my AH. In my opinion holding someone responsible for their actions and being able to forgive them in the same time does necesserely exclude each other.
That's how I feel and think. But I don't believe this to be a rule. What works for me might not work for you. hope you find your way to a healthier life...
There is something I want to share with you. Few months ago I went to see a homeopthat, (the fact he is a homeopaht is not acctually relevant to the story), and I really liked him, there was something about him that made me really open up, so we were talking about all kind of staff, and I was telling him about my father being an A all my life (and to the end of his) and that I have forgiven him, and than this guy asked me: have you forgiven yourself?
And I just broke down crying. I don't know where did it come from. I wasn't even sure I understood the question, but couldn't stop crying. He has reached something inside of me, I never knew was there. He has asked me the question that wouldn't even cross my mind in milion years. Thinking about it rationally it's a stupid question, I was just a little girl, I didn't have any choice, how could there possibly be something that I need to forgive myself for. Bur somehow there was.
And reading your posts in this thread made me think of that question: have you forgiven yourself?
And coming back to forgivness, I don't really know what to say about it, except it all depends on what you consider forgivness to be. If you consider the forgivness to be something that's says: Ok, I forgive you, it doesn't matter what you did, there is no way in hell I'd ever forgive my AH. But if I consider forgiveness to be: What you did is terrible, but I'm forgiving you because I'm a greater person that can see beyond your misery, and I'm doing it for myself, as I want to cut free from all the nastiness, drama and pain you've put me trough, than I'm much more likely to forgive my AH. In my opinion holding someone responsible for their actions and being able to forgive them in the same time does necesserely exclude each other.
That's how I feel and think. But I don't believe this to be a rule. What works for me might not work for you. hope you find your way to a healthier life...
There is something I want to share with you. Few months ago I went to see a homeopthat, (the fact he is a homeopaht is not acctually relevant to the story), and I really liked him, there was something about him that made me really open up, so we were talking about all kind of staff, and I was telling him about my father being an A all my life (and to the end of his) and that I have forgiven him, and than this guy asked me: have you forgiven yourself?
And I just broke down crying. I don't know where did it come from. I wasn't even sure I understood the question, but couldn't stop crying. He has reached something inside of me, I never knew was there. He has asked me the question that wouldn't even cross my mind in milion years. Thinking about it rationally it's a stupid question, I was just a little girl, I didn't have any choice, how could there possibly be something that I need to forgive myself for. Bur somehow there was.
And reading your posts in this thread made me think of that question: have you forgiven yourself?
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
I think what Sesh might be talking about that made you break down and cry is the guilt and shame feelings that go along with alcoholism and other addictions. I have been working on those things myself recently. Just thought I'd share. Thanks.
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Wizard Land Downunder
Posts: 2,615
I had nightmares, over a situation that caused me more pain than I ever had before.
Horrible nightmares, where I did such violence to folks who caused my pain, that I sat up nights afraid to sleep. I could have taught the KGB and Gestapo torture tactics.
I hung on to every itty bit of misery of that time, by reading and re-reading my diary and ingesting more hurt, more hate and more stress.
The result for me ....was daily angina attacks, deep depression, loss of energy, isolation even from family I love, trouble praying, and RABF went back to the drink.
The result for those I was "punishing"....was sweet FA, because they knew and felt nothing of this turmoil in me.
I was the one punishing myself, and damned near to killing myself with a heart attack.
I couldn't pray...so my dear Pastor prayed for me, and over me, then gave me advice.
It was over 4 years before I ceased having nightmares, a bit longer before I stopped hating on a daily basis, and even now I scrunch up on dates that come to mind in a painful way.
Good Friday, two years ago, whilst kneeling at the foot of the cross, I gave it to Christ there and then, to join the world's problems and sins he already carried.
He must have taken them, cause I felt lighter, and could pray again.
The only rules for mourning, regretting, resenting and unforgiveness are, THERE ARE NO RULES. We all handle experiences differently, and tho learning from others is a help, it is still our own personal experience.
I pray that all here, who are living with anger, resentment, even hatred, in their hearts will receive God's best and greatest blessings for them.
God bless
Horrible nightmares, where I did such violence to folks who caused my pain, that I sat up nights afraid to sleep. I could have taught the KGB and Gestapo torture tactics.
I hung on to every itty bit of misery of that time, by reading and re-reading my diary and ingesting more hurt, more hate and more stress.
The result for me ....was daily angina attacks, deep depression, loss of energy, isolation even from family I love, trouble praying, and RABF went back to the drink.
The result for those I was "punishing"....was sweet FA, because they knew and felt nothing of this turmoil in me.
I was the one punishing myself, and damned near to killing myself with a heart attack.
I couldn't pray...so my dear Pastor prayed for me, and over me, then gave me advice.
It was over 4 years before I ceased having nightmares, a bit longer before I stopped hating on a daily basis, and even now I scrunch up on dates that come to mind in a painful way.
Good Friday, two years ago, whilst kneeling at the foot of the cross, I gave it to Christ there and then, to join the world's problems and sins he already carried.
He must have taken them, cause I felt lighter, and could pray again.
The only rules for mourning, regretting, resenting and unforgiveness are, THERE ARE NO RULES. We all handle experiences differently, and tho learning from others is a help, it is still our own personal experience.
I pray that all here, who are living with anger, resentment, even hatred, in their hearts will receive God's best and greatest blessings for them.
God bless
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: England
Posts: 741
This is a really good thread for me to read at the moment. I am having huge issues with forgiveness, with anger and resentment. I really admire the way you're processing it though, it's given me some food for thought.
I personally would love to forget but I have no idea how to forgive. How do you forgive something so painful even though it's doing more harm than good by remembering?
I personally would love to forget but I have no idea how to forgive. How do you forgive something so painful even though it's doing more harm than good by remembering?
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,292
A good read
A Message on Forgiveness
and some good quotes.
My ex of 15 yrs who did things I can't even talk about, well I still have trouble with the pain and forgiveness, my ex after him did terrible things as well, I was able to forgive.
Forgivness is not a destination, it's a daily working.
Hope this helps
"When we harbor negative emotions toward others or toward ourselves,
or when we intentionally create pain for others,
we poison our own physical and spiritual systems.
By far the strongest poison to the human spirit
is the inability to forgive oneself or another person.
It disables a person's emotional resources.
The challenge is to refine our capacity to love others as well as ourselves
and to develop the power of forgiveness. "
~ Caroline Myss ~
One of the greatest struggles of the healing process
is to forgive both yourself and others
and to stop expending valuable energy on the past hurts."
~ Caroline Myss ~
Forgive and call back the energy wasted on past events."
~ Caroline Myss ~
"The act of forgiveness is the act of returning to present time.
And that's why when one has become a forgiving person,
and has managed to let go of the past,
what they've really done is they've shifted their relationship with time.
~ Caroline Myss ~
A Message on Forgiveness
and some good quotes.
My ex of 15 yrs who did things I can't even talk about, well I still have trouble with the pain and forgiveness, my ex after him did terrible things as well, I was able to forgive.
Forgivness is not a destination, it's a daily working.
Hope this helps
"When we harbor negative emotions toward others or toward ourselves,
or when we intentionally create pain for others,
we poison our own physical and spiritual systems.
By far the strongest poison to the human spirit
is the inability to forgive oneself or another person.
It disables a person's emotional resources.
The challenge is to refine our capacity to love others as well as ourselves
and to develop the power of forgiveness. "
~ Caroline Myss ~
One of the greatest struggles of the healing process
is to forgive both yourself and others
and to stop expending valuable energy on the past hurts."
~ Caroline Myss ~
Forgive and call back the energy wasted on past events."
~ Caroline Myss ~
"The act of forgiveness is the act of returning to present time.
And that's why when one has become a forgiving person,
and has managed to let go of the past,
what they've really done is they've shifted their relationship with time.
~ Caroline Myss ~
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 689
Oh my goodness...so many great thoughts to go through. I think I have quite a bit to process.
I appreciate the comments regarding LTD and myself....actually I think that she was very kind in her response to my reactive post.
I appreciate the comments regarding LTD and myself....actually I think that she was very kind in her response to my reactive post.
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 405
For me, "forgiveness" came about as I realized he is who he is and his a$$hole moves were just the person he is, and it is NOT the person I am.
Like the story of the serpent who pleads and promises to carry the mouse accross the river and not eat him, but then as soon as he is out in the water he eats the mouse. The mouse asks why and the serpent says "because I am a serpent and that is what serpents do".
I used to hate that story, but now I get it. I am not a cheater, liar etc and he is. It has everything to do with him and NOTHING to do with me.
For me the words - "acceptance and detachment" work better than forgiveness. I don't think I would say i "forgive" my ex, but I also no longer think it is my problem or about me.
Like the story of the serpent who pleads and promises to carry the mouse accross the river and not eat him, but then as soon as he is out in the water he eats the mouse. The mouse asks why and the serpent says "because I am a serpent and that is what serpents do".
I used to hate that story, but now I get it. I am not a cheater, liar etc and he is. It has everything to do with him and NOTHING to do with me.
For me the words - "acceptance and detachment" work better than forgiveness. I don't think I would say i "forgive" my ex, but I also no longer think it is my problem or about me.
I grew my wings to fly...
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: STATE OF CONTENTMENT
Posts: 289
Originally Posted by anvilhead 
i know when i have been hurt by someone, oh let's say when my husband at the time took what he could in a laundry basket and left me for the woman i considered my BEST friend at the time....FORGIVENESS was not the first thing that came to mind! hit the thesaurus on all the synonyms for hurt, upset, p!ssed and sad and insert them here.
wasn't right for him to leave me like that. BUT HE DID. there were a LOT more dynamics at play than the simple act of him walking out the door that day.
turns out he never really wanted to MARRY me in the first place...i got pregnant, we'd been split up at the time no less, we weren't even sure we REALLY wanted to be together anymore, but the parents......you know how parents are and next thing ya know we are ALL getting on a plane and flying to Reno and wah lah we're married.
turns out that ring he had just given me at Christmas, the pretty little solataire diamond that sat so proudly on my finger...my MOTHER bought the damn thing and wrapped it up and conned Brian into saying it was from HIM and he went along cuz you just didn't cross my mother.......
turns out they ended up being a much better fit, those two, together 20 years.
i learned over time he didn't do what he did to HURT ME, he did what he did cuz that's where his road took him. it wasn't personal. and here's the kicker...it wasn't about ME at all.
for as long as we REFUSE to let go of what THEY did to us, THEY still hold power over us. the longer we stay locked into the mindset of HOW DARE THEY the longer we will be STUCK back there on the day they did.
life is just too damn short to try and remember why i'm mad at people and all the hurts and indignities i've suffered. seriously, i ain't THAT important...so once upon a time somebody did something and i was no longer the center of their universe and my fee-fee's got hurt. the ONLY person that matters to is me........the planet never even slowed down. they didn't hold Tess's Broken Heart Day, nobody gives a damn.
for me i need to be bigger than the events that transpired. i'm like the airlines, gotta pay for EVERY piece of extra luggage, so i tend to pack light....take forward with me only what i need and have USE for.....i don't take my photo album from my last vacation in the suitcase for my NEXT vacation. i leave the china and the bank statements home.
every choice we make has a price. what is THIS choice costing you? how much head space does HE still rent? what's the payoff for refusing to let it go?
wasn't right for him to leave me like that. BUT HE DID. there were a LOT more dynamics at play than the simple act of him walking out the door that day.
turns out he never really wanted to MARRY me in the first place...i got pregnant, we'd been split up at the time no less, we weren't even sure we REALLY wanted to be together anymore, but the parents......you know how parents are and next thing ya know we are ALL getting on a plane and flying to Reno and wah lah we're married.
turns out that ring he had just given me at Christmas, the pretty little solataire diamond that sat so proudly on my finger...my MOTHER bought the damn thing and wrapped it up and conned Brian into saying it was from HIM and he went along cuz you just didn't cross my mother.......
turns out they ended up being a much better fit, those two, together 20 years.
i learned over time he didn't do what he did to HURT ME, he did what he did cuz that's where his road took him. it wasn't personal. and here's the kicker...it wasn't about ME at all.
for as long as we REFUSE to let go of what THEY did to us, THEY still hold power over us. the longer we stay locked into the mindset of HOW DARE THEY the longer we will be STUCK back there on the day they did.
life is just too damn short to try and remember why i'm mad at people and all the hurts and indignities i've suffered. seriously, i ain't THAT important...so once upon a time somebody did something and i was no longer the center of their universe and my fee-fee's got hurt. the ONLY person that matters to is me........the planet never even slowed down. they didn't hold Tess's Broken Heart Day, nobody gives a damn.
for me i need to be bigger than the events that transpired. i'm like the airlines, gotta pay for EVERY piece of extra luggage, so i tend to pack light....take forward with me only what i need and have USE for.....i don't take my photo album from my last vacation in the suitcase for my NEXT vacation. i leave the china and the bank statements home.
every choice we make has a price. what is THIS choice costing you? how much head space does HE still rent? what's the payoff for refusing to let it go?
EXCELLENT!!!!!!!!!!!.. I love this.. thank you for this.. I really like the 'they didn't hold Tess's Broken Heart Day, nobody gives a damn'. How true.. what a thought to keep in one's head when we are in a state of pity..
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Florida
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Once I realized that I was a prisoner to HIS addiction I took action to undue my shackles. When he died, I remind myself that the pain of the loss is a prison sentence as a result of HIS addiction. I will NOT allow an addicts death to chain me.
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Southwest
Posts: 1,207
I have a much easier time forgiving XAH than my friends do. I do believe that his nasty behaviors were his limited way of coping with frustration, pain, me and my demands, etc.
What I have a harder time with is forgiving myself for not honoring my conscience and questioning myself in the course of the relationship.
What I have a harder time with is forgiving myself for not honoring my conscience and questioning myself in the course of the relationship.
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