here's me practicing assertiveness
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here's me practicing assertiveness
husabnd,
thursday night after dinner, you were in a mood and would not talk to me.
FRiday night during the entire drive downtown you would not talk to me, even after i made several attempts at light conversation.
Then tonight. You pouted about "having" to go on the outing that I planned for us. And you ended up not going.
It is rude. It is disrespectful. And I dont deserve it.
I don't feel comfortable being close to you because my gut says that something will happen again that will hurt me.
It diminshes my sense of self-worth to face this kind of treatment during what otherwise should be happy times for me.
__________________________________________________ ____
IS THIS OK TO SAY? WHAT OF IT SHOULD I NOT SAY? WHAT ELSE SHOULD I SAY? I feel soooo sick with anguish.
thursday night after dinner, you were in a mood and would not talk to me.
FRiday night during the entire drive downtown you would not talk to me, even after i made several attempts at light conversation.
Then tonight. You pouted about "having" to go on the outing that I planned for us. And you ended up not going.
It is rude. It is disrespectful. And I dont deserve it.
I don't feel comfortable being close to you because my gut says that something will happen again that will hurt me.
It diminshes my sense of self-worth to face this kind of treatment during what otherwise should be happy times for me.
__________________________________________________ ____
IS THIS OK TO SAY? WHAT OF IT SHOULD I NOT SAY? WHAT ELSE SHOULD I SAY? I feel soooo sick with anguish.
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First thing I would say is:
If anything like this will put you in danger, don't say it. I mean, if he is abusive and this will set him off, then don't say it.
Second thing I will say is this:
Why are you saying it? Is it to get him to change? Because if that is it, you will probably be disappointed. People don't ususally change just because we want them to.
If you are saying it simply to state your position so that you feel better about being who you are, then go for it. But if that's the case, then maybe you only need to say it to yourself. Maybe you just need to tell yourself these things in order to be true to yourself.
I don't know. What is the motivation?
L
If anything like this will put you in danger, don't say it. I mean, if he is abusive and this will set him off, then don't say it.
Second thing I will say is this:
Why are you saying it? Is it to get him to change? Because if that is it, you will probably be disappointed. People don't ususally change just because we want them to.
If you are saying it simply to state your position so that you feel better about being who you are, then go for it. But if that's the case, then maybe you only need to say it to yourself. Maybe you just need to tell yourself these things in order to be true to yourself.
I don't know. What is the motivation?
L
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thanks ltd. my motivation is to make it clear in my own head that its not acceptable and not to be tolerated so yeah i am telling myself it more than him. i want to feel stronger. I want to feel that i have a voice, and that i deserve to be treated as a spouse should be treated. if i dont say something or show some emotion then doesnt that tell him that these things are OK? I dont know.
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Okay, I see what you mean. Sounds like setting some boundaries.
So, if he refuses to honor your boundaries, then what? It's good to have a plan to enforce boundaries when you create them, cause chances are, he's not gonna just say "okay, you're right, I'm a jerk, I'll start being nice now."
Have you read the stickies on boundaries? It goes something like this:
If you _____, I will _______. If you continue ________, I will _______.
L
So, if he refuses to honor your boundaries, then what? It's good to have a plan to enforce boundaries when you create them, cause chances are, he's not gonna just say "okay, you're right, I'm a jerk, I'll start being nice now."
Have you read the stickies on boundaries? It goes something like this:
If you _____, I will _______. If you continue ________, I will _______.
L
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If you shut down and wont talk to me I will stay away from you. If you wont participate in the things I nejoy I will continue to do them without you. If you continue to treat me this way I will... WHAT. leave? ask him to leave?
i dont like falling victim to his manipulation. he succeeds becasue it upsets me. how can i NOT get so upset? i hate myself more and more each day as this goes on. I fele like I am losing my mind. HES THE ONE WHO IS SOOO UNHAPPY. So WHY am I feeling so much pain?
(the way i am feeling right now I just want to be AWAY from him)
i dont like falling victim to his manipulation. he succeeds becasue it upsets me. how can i NOT get so upset? i hate myself more and more each day as this goes on. I fele like I am losing my mind. HES THE ONE WHO IS SOOO UNHAPPY. So WHY am I feeling so much pain?
(the way i am feeling right now I just want to be AWAY from him)
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Originally Posted by jehnifer 
If you continue to treat me this way I will... WHAT. leave? ask him to leave?
Originally Posted by jehnifer
i dont like falling victim to his manipulation. he succeeds becasue it upsets me. how can i NOT get so upset? i hate myself more and more each day as this goes on. I fele like I am losing my mind. HES THE ONE WHO IS SOOO UNHAPPY. So WHY am I feeling so much pain?
(the way i am feeling right now I just want to be AWAY from him)
(the way i am feeling right now I just want to be AWAY from him)
L
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If he wants to be miserable OK, let him sit on his pity pot all he wants, but you are not sentenced to suffer along side him.
Find what you love doing, and go do it....meet friends, get out of his miasma of misery, and make your life more enjoyable.....even if only for a short time every so often.
When you get to experience who good this feels, you will probably want to have more of you time, when you have pleasure and less of his selfishness.
Take back control and ownership of you, your time, your pleasure and your needs and let him control his time......all alone if necessary.
You are on my prayer list, jehnifer
God bless
Find what you love doing, and go do it....meet friends, get out of his miasma of misery, and make your life more enjoyable.....even if only for a short time every so often.
When you get to experience who good this feels, you will probably want to have more of you time, when you have pleasure and less of his selfishness.
Take back control and ownership of you, your time, your pleasure and your needs and let him control his time......all alone if necessary.
You are on my prayer list, jehnifer
God bless
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Thank you jad.
I had a revelation this morning. There are two mes! One me is self assured self directed; goes places where she wants to go does what she enjoys, and is real and herself. At one with her self.
The other me is...his wife. The two are in conflict and that is why I find myself here desparately seeking assistance. I am also going to counseling.
I dont like the idea of continuing to do my own thing - that which makes me happy when it means doing more and more without him. Yet its what I have to and want to do FOR ME. The real me. anyone else feel this way?
I had a revelation this morning. There are two mes! One me is self assured self directed; goes places where she wants to go does what she enjoys, and is real and herself. At one with her self.
The other me is...his wife. The two are in conflict and that is why I find myself here desparately seeking assistance. I am also going to counseling.
I dont like the idea of continuing to do my own thing - that which makes me happy when it means doing more and more without him. Yet its what I have to and want to do FOR ME. The real me. anyone else feel this way?
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I dont like the idea of continuing to do my own thing - that which makes me happy when it means doing more and more without him. Yet its what I have to and want to do FOR ME. The real me. anyone else feel this way?
Hmmmmm. well you don't like the idea of going it alone...but when he goes along with you he is emotionally unavailable or rude and that makes you unhappy too?
Are these things that you are doing things that YOU enjoy? Or are you operating out of some misplaced sense of obligation also? Or a rigid idea that certain things are only fun if they unfold in just a certain right way?
To me, the most telling thing you said in your posts:
I want to feel that i have a voice, and that i deserve to be treated as a spouse should be treated.
There is only part of that statement you can act on - you can do what you need to feel like you have a voice, and you can have your own standards of what treatment it is that you deserve. But you can't make anyone, particularly a tiger who has shown you his stripes, treat you the way you want. I mean, you can state your expectations, as you did so well, but that will not make another person change.
Focusing on how your AH (he is still active right?) should treat you is setting yourself up for expectations that may never be met and will only deeply frustrate and infuriate you. I used to do the same thing with my exH. I had such rigid ideas (which probably a good portion of the population would agree are normal expectations) of how I should be treated, of how a partner treats his wife etc, but OBVIOUSLY my exH did not see things the same way! And that's all that matters. All the arguing, sorrow, pleading, pointing out of examples did nothing to get me what I wanted from him, because I was basically asking a daisy to become a rose!!
So I had to accept the problem was mine. I chose a person who could not possibly give me what it is that I feel I deserve and desire... For me I had to get a divorce and spend some time in therapy to find out what was up with ME! I am in a very healthy and happy romantic relationship now because I chose much much more carefully and consciously who I would open my heart to....
It was painful to change. But not nearly as painful as the day in day out agony and frustration of living with my exH, where I created a dynamic that brought out the very worst in me (and him probably!).
It started with accepting him 100% the way he is, and stopping all attempts at changing him or "geting him to see...."
peace-
b
Hmmmmm. well you don't like the idea of going it alone...but when he goes along with you he is emotionally unavailable or rude and that makes you unhappy too?
Are these things that you are doing things that YOU enjoy? Or are you operating out of some misplaced sense of obligation also? Or a rigid idea that certain things are only fun if they unfold in just a certain right way?
To me, the most telling thing you said in your posts:
I want to feel that i have a voice, and that i deserve to be treated as a spouse should be treated.
There is only part of that statement you can act on - you can do what you need to feel like you have a voice, and you can have your own standards of what treatment it is that you deserve. But you can't make anyone, particularly a tiger who has shown you his stripes, treat you the way you want. I mean, you can state your expectations, as you did so well, but that will not make another person change.
Focusing on how your AH (he is still active right?) should treat you is setting yourself up for expectations that may never be met and will only deeply frustrate and infuriate you. I used to do the same thing with my exH. I had such rigid ideas (which probably a good portion of the population would agree are normal expectations) of how I should be treated, of how a partner treats his wife etc, but OBVIOUSLY my exH did not see things the same way! And that's all that matters. All the arguing, sorrow, pleading, pointing out of examples did nothing to get me what I wanted from him, because I was basically asking a daisy to become a rose!!
So I had to accept the problem was mine. I chose a person who could not possibly give me what it is that I feel I deserve and desire... For me I had to get a divorce and spend some time in therapy to find out what was up with ME! I am in a very healthy and happy romantic relationship now because I chose much much more carefully and consciously who I would open my heart to....
It was painful to change. But not nearly as painful as the day in day out agony and frustration of living with my exH, where I created a dynamic that brought out the very worst in me (and him probably!).
It started with accepting him 100% the way he is, and stopping all attempts at changing him or "geting him to see...."
peace-
b
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ok B i get it. and thanks for putting it that way. BY the way he is not active - has 8 years! hes a downer to be around. and i am on edge too much of the time. but i get it...thats my fault. i have a choice!
Anyway, i must forget about rying to correct him to meet my needs. rather i must clearly define what i want and what is acceptable to me and act accordingly.
Anyway, i must forget about rying to correct him to meet my needs. rather i must clearly define what i want and what is acceptable to me and act accordingly.
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hes a downer to be around. and i am on edge too much of the time.
I can sooooooooooooo (sadly) relate. It's a crummy state of being!!
I think the steps you are taking to write out your standards, to state them clearly etc are really a good idea (whether you give them to him or not), because it may just help you clarify the reality of the relationship you are in. I didn't feel truly free and at peace in mind until I stopped blaming him for making me so unhappy. That was not easy, not at all, but it was an amazing process of learning to own my own stuff and detaching and letting him just "be." That left me free (in my case) to say, OK this is just not a good match and not going to start working by some lightning flash or miracle!
Be gentle with yourself!
peace-
b
I can sooooooooooooo (sadly) relate. It's a crummy state of being!!
I think the steps you are taking to write out your standards, to state them clearly etc are really a good idea (whether you give them to him or not), because it may just help you clarify the reality of the relationship you are in. I didn't feel truly free and at peace in mind until I stopped blaming him for making me so unhappy. That was not easy, not at all, but it was an amazing process of learning to own my own stuff and detaching and letting him just "be." That left me free (in my case) to say, OK this is just not a good match and not going to start working by some lightning flash or miracle!
Be gentle with yourself!
peace-
b
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this is what angers me about myself. that i am setting a terrible example for my teenage daughter. she has known RAH her step dad for 7 years now and told me last night "frankly mom i dont see what you are getting out of the relaitonship., he doesnt have much to offer. i just dont get it."
she also said that i shoudl have said F.U. to him for his latest antics. from my angel of a daughter mind you. wow! it never occurred to me to express myself to him for his behavior. rather i just quietly accepted it. am i an idiot or what. i depsarately need to stop hating myself.
she also said that i shoudl have said F.U. to him for his latest antics. from my angel of a daughter mind you. wow! it never occurred to me to express myself to him for his behavior. rather i just quietly accepted it. am i an idiot or what. i depsarately need to stop hating myself.
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Originally Posted by jehnifer
this is what angers me about myself. that i am setting a terrible example for my teenage daughter. she has known RAH her step dad for 7 years now and told me last night "frankly mom i dont see what you are getting out of the relaitonship., he doesnt have much to offer. i just dont get it."
she also said that i shoudl have said F.U. to him for his latest antics. from my angel of a daughter mind you. wow! it never occurred to me to express myself to him for his behavior. rather i just quietly accepted it. am i an idiot or what. i depsarately need to stop hating myself.
she also said that i shoudl have said F.U. to him for his latest antics. from my angel of a daughter mind you. wow! it never occurred to me to express myself to him for his behavior. rather i just quietly accepted it. am i an idiot or what. i depsarately need to stop hating myself.
Amazing how perceptive and to the point kids can be, even the teenage ones.
Even though my oldest daughter was only 8 when I got clean/sober the first time around, she watched my unhealthy patterns with men for years after that.
Sadly she has followed the same patterns with me that I did before I got serious about addressing my codependency.
My granddaughter now lives with her, and now I am seeing the patterns in a third generation (GD will be 15 in July).
My 21 year old is in a serious relationship with a guy who, in my opinion likes to drink and gamble a bit too much (his father is an active alcoholic/compulsive gambler), and is very controlling.
I've had to do a tremendous amount of step work with my sponsor and a lot of therapy to let go of the guilt that will still sometimes bite me in the butt over what kind of an example I was for my daughters.
Today I can be an example of what recovery looks like.
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Originally Posted by jehnifer
it never occurred to me to express myself to him for his behavior. rather i just quietly accepted it. am i an idiot or what. i depsarately need to stop hating myself.
You are not an idiot! And, you are so right about needing to stop hating yourself. Every day is a fresh new start. Each minute is a new opportunity to do something differently.
How about this. Go look in the mirror right now and say "I love you" to the person looking back at you. Can you do it? Then, every time you pass a mirror, or a window that reflects, think to yourself "I love you." After a while, you will find that you actually do.
L
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jehnifer, I loved the realization of the two you's. Maybe I lost some of your posts but I think this is the first thread where you mention your strong side. Good work!!!!!!!
You know yesterday I went to a dear friend's baby boy baptism. I put on a nice dress. I REALLY enjoyed the garden outside the church. I got all teary watching the baby in white. I took pics of the church (they are permitted) because there was a HUGE painting of Virgin Mary and I loved it.
Then I said hi to my friends and bought an ice cream outside, sat under the sun, enjoyed my lunch and talked with an old man that I simpathized with.
Partner:
I woke him up an hour before leaving, 10min. before the agreed leaving time he was still in boxers.
Said there was a flower shop nearby, it was closed - I could have gone to one I knew was open that early. Then quarreled many times about how NO ONE gave presents at that occassion when I was raised to give presents ANY time someone invites me to their home, child's baptism, birthday party or whatever.
Criticized the Louise Hay for Children - affirmations book I bought for the baby (for when he grows up and can actually read it lol..) and said that the baby would prefer "one of dinosaurs". Mind you it was ME who was going to buy it anyway.
Seldom talked to me during lunch. Actually asked ME to bring his food (it was a buffet). I laughed... then I said "oh.. it wasn't a joke?" of course I didn't bring it. LOL.
When we were waiting to greet my friends he just stared at everyone uneasily with his arms folded and said he wanted to leave. Ok- in my book to go somewhere, be invited lunch then leave without saying "hello, congratulations, how are you? thank you for this wonderful evening" is rude and of bad taste.
Later said we would bring "our kids" to baptism. He never goes to mass, he doesn't even believe in God-only when its convenient for him so its not really believing in my book-. Just because "its customary" "what would others think?" "one has to fit". Things that I gather are codie like. If he was a religious man and really believed it it would be a different thing. But to be "socially accepted"?
So, I was reading your thread and got what you mean by going alone or doing something alone would be much much better than bringing your partner.
Then when I do it...went to a VIP movie theater... out lunch to a posh sushi place with a coworker...and this week to an Indian restaurant... I feel guilty. UGH.
And I also wonder.. it has been many times lately that its totally obvious I would have a better time by myself. What am I getting out of this?
Keep up the good work! I am trying to observe me and him closelyl and ask HP to give clarity and more clarity-and honesty- to both of us.
You know yesterday I went to a dear friend's baby boy baptism. I put on a nice dress. I REALLY enjoyed the garden outside the church. I got all teary watching the baby in white. I took pics of the church (they are permitted) because there was a HUGE painting of Virgin Mary and I loved it.
Then I said hi to my friends and bought an ice cream outside, sat under the sun, enjoyed my lunch and talked with an old man that I simpathized with.
Partner:
I woke him up an hour before leaving, 10min. before the agreed leaving time he was still in boxers.
Said there was a flower shop nearby, it was closed - I could have gone to one I knew was open that early. Then quarreled many times about how NO ONE gave presents at that occassion when I was raised to give presents ANY time someone invites me to their home, child's baptism, birthday party or whatever.
Criticized the Louise Hay for Children - affirmations book I bought for the baby (for when he grows up and can actually read it lol..) and said that the baby would prefer "one of dinosaurs". Mind you it was ME who was going to buy it anyway.
Seldom talked to me during lunch. Actually asked ME to bring his food (it was a buffet). I laughed... then I said "oh.. it wasn't a joke?" of course I didn't bring it. LOL.
When we were waiting to greet my friends he just stared at everyone uneasily with his arms folded and said he wanted to leave. Ok- in my book to go somewhere, be invited lunch then leave without saying "hello, congratulations, how are you? thank you for this wonderful evening" is rude and of bad taste.
Later said we would bring "our kids" to baptism. He never goes to mass, he doesn't even believe in God-only when its convenient for him so its not really believing in my book-. Just because "its customary" "what would others think?" "one has to fit". Things that I gather are codie like. If he was a religious man and really believed it it would be a different thing. But to be "socially accepted"?
So, I was reading your thread and got what you mean by going alone or doing something alone would be much much better than bringing your partner.
Then when I do it...went to a VIP movie theater... out lunch to a posh sushi place with a coworker...and this week to an Indian restaurant... I feel guilty. UGH.
And I also wonder.. it has been many times lately that its totally obvious I would have a better time by myself. What am I getting out of this?
Keep up the good work! I am trying to observe me and him closelyl and ask HP to give clarity and more clarity-and honesty- to both of us.
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I DO love me...and what I am all about. One time recently my teenage daughter said something while among a group of her freinds who were here at the house. She said when I get older I want to do things like my mom does.
That to me is called admiration and setting a good example. I dont mean it like Im bragging but to build myself back up. It made me feel sooo good!
How/Why does it then get challenged and dminish and i have to FIGHT INTERNALLY TO REGAIN IT?
i LOVE MYSELF.
YEsterdays sermon there was a part about what sacrifice meant: To give up something you love for something you love even more. I love ME (and God) even more.
Im gonna be OK...in time... I love you all!!!! thanks for the support.
That to me is called admiration and setting a good example. I dont mean it like Im bragging but to build myself back up. It made me feel sooo good!
How/Why does it then get challenged and dminish and i have to FIGHT INTERNALLY TO REGAIN IT?
i LOVE MYSELF.
YEsterdays sermon there was a part about what sacrifice meant: To give up something you love for something you love even more. I love ME (and God) even more.
Im gonna be OK...in time... I love you all!!!! thanks for the support.
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Also something interesting that is food for thought for me
Just like we say its their actions, not their words that talk...
If I say I love myself
What does my actions say?
BTW I can't even say that in the mirror or without a mirror, so you're a step ahead from me!
So far I think this at random moments in my day and find lots of negativity and passivity.
Just like we say its their actions, not their words that talk...
If I say I love myself
What does my actions say?
BTW I can't even say that in the mirror or without a mirror, so you're a step ahead from me!
So far I think this at random moments in my day and find lots of negativity and passivity.
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Jenhifer,
you seem to have travelled a ways just in this thread. you started out making "you" statements, then turned it around to "I" statements.
My daughter has expressed admiration for me as well. It is very rewarding, thinking I have done some things right. But, I also know that she feels bemused by my relationship with someone who doesn't seem to (ok, no "seem" about it) function on the same level that I do. She recently said it seemed to her like I took care of him, and probably felt sorry for him. Wow.
I know that I have displayed actions/behaviors around my daughters that I wish I hadn't. Doesn't cancel the good stuff I've done, but....
So....are you telling yourself "I love you" ?
you seem to have travelled a ways just in this thread. you started out making "you" statements, then turned it around to "I" statements.
My daughter has expressed admiration for me as well. It is very rewarding, thinking I have done some things right. But, I also know that she feels bemused by my relationship with someone who doesn't seem to (ok, no "seem" about it) function on the same level that I do. She recently said it seemed to her like I took care of him, and probably felt sorry for him. Wow.
I know that I have displayed actions/behaviors around my daughters that I wish I hadn't. Doesn't cancel the good stuff I've done, but....
So....are you telling yourself "I love you" ?
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