Redheadsusie

I think they project all of their anger and hurt and whatver on others so they don't own it any more. At least mine does.

transformyself

My poor AH was either the devil or a savior to me. Today I can see that I did the same things to him that I accuse him of. I hated and loved him. I didn't trust him. I spied. I cursed him, then pretended not to so I could blame him. I did everything I could to keep him attached to me, while telling him it was over.

Trying to figure out what he was doing and why kept me rolled in that barbed wire fence trying to fight or stratigize my way out. But I did it anyway. For a long time.

If you figure it out, please let me know.

For now, I'll assure you that letting go completly, committing to myself ONLY has been the only way to freedom for me. I had to force myself to stop obsessing about him, to not even allow one thought of him take hold--much like the A cannot have one drink--before I could detach.

Like Suki said, It's a beautiful thing.

Thumper

I think there are two sides to every story and their side is real to them, even if it doesn't look real to us.

If I try to look at it objectively my xah said and did things he knew would hurt me. I did my best to appear put together, sure of myself etc, even when I was posting here about what a disaster everything was. He bought it. I'd hazard a guess that his story is that I am a heartless witch taking everything from him without a second glance or chance, and he his a victim and was willing to do the counseling and the changing and I wouldn't. Of course he was willing to do counseling so I could change but he wasn't willing to get a recovery program. So, we each have or own story, we each have or own hurt. I will say that I did not say the mean and hurtful things to him that he said to me. I don't know how he percieves that. I doudt he takes any joy in it.

My xah is very emotionally manipulative, which makes him very bad for me, but I don't think he is like that on purpose really. If it wasn't for the alcoholism, I think we really could work out our differences because I think he really wants that (but not badly enough I guess - I don't really get it and no longer think about it much) but he won't seek recovery and if he does now, there is to much history and I've lost to much trust. We'll never be together.

That was very rambling. I think the joy a person takes in causing another pain depends not on whether they are alcoholic, but what kind of person they are to begin with.

Kittyboo

Wow, I woke up and read all of these great posts. Thanks everyone!

It had actually been a long time since my XA and I communicated, and I had thought I was really moving on, well I was, but I thought I was past all of the hurt once I found out he had lied to me. I had said my peace, and I was "ok".

I didn't realize how much his contacting me a couple of months ago really brought me back to that place that I had been working so hard to get past.

So now, it's time to once again, move on from all that has been said and done between us.
It is true, he has his own reality. Your posts are comforting. And I need to remind myself daily that no matter what he says, I know what my intentions were with him, I know that I was genuine, I know that I cared....and though these are things that he did not want from me, I accept that I am not the horrible person he wants to make me out to be now.

He is extremely emotionally manipulative. And I should be GRATEFUL that I will not be spending my life with someone like him. He did the same thing to his ex too.... though he certainly expressed that he loved her, something he did not feel for me, he would tell me how evil, psychotic and horrible she was too. And then when it suited him; when he wanted her back, he changed his story and said that he was the one who abandonded her, and she is actually perfect and special.

Well, I know I am perfect and special too. Just not in his world....and one day I will not have the back and forth emotions I have about it all, and be able to look at it all and not miss him, the idea of him, or anything that went along with knowing him.

HUGS

TakingCharge999

I dont think they enjoy hurting you, that would be acknowledging the presence of someone else besides themselves What?????? its not only ME?? duh????

Well I happen to have chances to 'observe' and at least in my own experience its all about who will drink in industial amounts and put up with other drunks. Anyone else is out.

When we were a 'couple' it was like wow what a great match, you are the woman I love, yadda yadda. Now its the same with the new girl. And the moment she grows up, or has an issue with his abuse, next day he will have someone else and it will be once again a parade.


I get the sick obsession, yesterday I had a 'relapse' but now I am back on track.
It is easy to move on when you remember what they did.
Just thinking "which one of the many sad and hurting events where I felt this incredible loneliness shall I remember?" slaps me back to the now an how much better life is without him.

If things happened that were unacceptable for you, who cares if others think that's great? its like PLEASE-- be my guest and keep the 70kg bag of unending madness away from me.

Glad we are back on track :ghug3

lulu1974

Mine always really thought he was doing it for the greater good and to help me..Like, your butt looks big honey..I am just telling you to help you...otherwise when he would secrectly hurt me and I find out like the affairs websites he thought he would get away with it and I would never find out. But I did. I will never understand the logic..

Thumper

I really a believe that some of the hurtful things they say (like they never cared etc.) is just a coping mechanism to deal with the denial of where they are at personally, a way to deal with what they are losing, a way to protect an addiction. A brain afloat in chemicals is never going to be logical. It isn't possible.

If they really didn't care at all they would just walk away. The very fact that they are causing such drama means they are having trouble letting go just like we are. I'm not trying to make excuses, I'm just trying to seperate out all the defensiveness that I feel personally and look at it from a purely human prospective. To let go of some of the resentments.

Of course, my xah did not cheat on me, or hit me, or lie to me about major things, we did not break up and get back together, etc so there wasn't quite as much history there as some people have. I'm sure that makes a difference.

Kittyboo

I think you are 100% correct.
Though in my case, he is able to, and did walk away. I know he has combat ptsd as well, that causes withdrawal from people and situations too.... though I gave him enough passes to treat me poorly and not stand up for myself in the beginning because of that.

Though he did contact me a couple of months ago to want to repair things, that was it....he didn't try again, and proceeded to cut me out like I never existed again, thus shoving the knife in one more time.
All of the drama this time around was, I feel, caused by me. I sent the initial text because I was the one who was so hurt about everything, then he lashed out. Yes, he played the blame game, and said absolutely ridiculous and hurtful things, but at the same time, it certainly is not too difficult for him to walk away from me. He was never as emotionally invested in me as I was in him.

Kerbcrawler

Brutal honesty can at times seem so cruel...and hurtful of the moment...but none of us like to be patronised and treated like ...we are dumb an can not see our own way out here...anyone who gets paid to tell you how to run youre life...whilst living there own lives of turmoil...you should be wary of.....you are no less intelligent than anyone else...dont beleive the hype....put yourself in other peoples hands is askin for trouble...to yourself be true...with the help of sr..and so many honourable good people
why pay for someone who most probably is more messed up than you is gonna help you out....those that have gone through a certain amount of longterm pain....and ask for nothing in return are the ones to listen too...so many wonderfull genuine people here....

steve11694

Saying hurtful things is simply what alcoholics do. Part of it is to push your buttons in a way that will perpetuate codependency and manipulation.

We have all heard in addiction that the hurtful stuff is actually self loathing being projected at us.

Easier said than done, is to not take it personally.

lulu1974

You are not alone..mine did it too. He begged me back for a while and then cut me off. He told me his logic is that he will just start over the right way. I wished him luck in doing it the right way..It comical to think of what his thought process is in doing it the right way..

posiesperson

coffeedrinker said, "i understand that tremendous need to have your say but it never goes the way we had planned, does it?"

Ain't THAT the truth! If my breakup session with my exA taught me something, it's that 90 minutes with the manipulation was enough to send me reeling back to a very dark and EXCEEDINGLY painful place. No, that wasn't the way I had planned it for sure--how skillful to know the right "buttons" to push to elicit great pain, I can't believe how vulnerable I was and I didn't even know it!

And this from steve: "We have all heard in addiction that the hurtful stuff is actually self loathing being projected at us."

Wow. Yup, sums it up and makes it a wee bit better. It is SO not about us except when we internalize it and allow it to make us sick.

Thanks for the thread, Kittyboo. Hugs for your pain and wishes for your to find safe space within yourself, and in your home, for your healing. My wish for you is that you move ahead in your life, and find great happiness.

posie

tpen

Thanks for the posts everyone. I had a very good birthday yesterday and today was awesome - 27 holes of golf and I felt great physically and mentally.

Question I have is my XAGF doesn 't even try to contact me. Why? I know you will also that is good. But I thought they try to get you back in their trap. It has been 2 weeks.

FreeingMyself

My AH actually told me he gets joy out of hurting me......just writing that sounds horrible, and I can't believe he said that....but he did.

Kerbcrawler

I Find that so interesting that concept...the hurtful stuff is self loathing being projected at us...so could it be many an alcoholic abuser...was bullied and intimidated by parent namely father..and made to feel extremely small an worthless...and is simply passing down to next generation son...as well as wife...only to keep this cycle of mental torment alive, and running to the next generation...

tpen

I wonder the same thing, not to get off the thread's initial post. That if the A is drinking to hide the pain from an emotional/physical/sexual abuse during childhood.

Kittyboo

tpen - there is no one reason why an A drinks. There can be one reason or multiple reasons. Whatever their reason is, they are choosing to deal with it in an unhealthy manner.
It depends on what that person went through. I went through childhood abuse....and I rarely drink. Someone else may drink because of it. It depends on the person.

Kittyboo

So you guys got me thinking about this too

"the hurtful stuff is self loathing being projected at us", which is no doubt true to some extent.

But I will turn that on myself for a moment. I started this thread asking if they enjoy hurting you? Really asked because of the lack of conscience that my XA displays regarding my feelings. It seems he cares for others but not for me. Hard to not take that personal... but I know
However, to turn it to myself..... I said hurtful things back to him. Very hurtful things, he tried to blame me for it all, so I finally lashed out and said things I never said to him before, that he's a liar, manipulative, used me until he didn't need me anymore, only reached out because he was drunk....
Well, those are my truths. I can't say that I wanted to hurt him, but I wanted him to know what was real to me. I wanted him to know this is how I view him....but because he hurt me.
So, essentially am I doing the same thing to him that he did to me by projecting my hurt onto him? I suppose I am.
I don't think I regret it though. All of the things I said were built up in me for so long, and the very last thing I said to him was "you were the first man I ever said I love you to, and I will leave you with that."
Now what he said after that, I have no idea, I deleted it before reading it. I knew it would probably cut me in two. Even after all of the hurtful things we said to each other in a matter of minutes, I couldn't let the last thing I said be hateful. I guess that's the difference between he and I.

Mentally - that your AH told you that he gets joy out of hurting you gave me chills. To feel that someone who we love dearly enjoys our pain, is just..... I can't find the words right now. I'm sending hugs.

Sending everyone HUGS. This thread is so helpful.

steve11694

The veterinarian is the one that most often gets bitten by the animal in pain.

Alcoholics are famous for hurtfulness towards those that are closest.

And, in case you don't know or have never witnessed drunks being mean to fellow drunks at bars or in public, it happens all the time. Often accompanied by physical violence.

I recall learning that my AW had been cited in the log book of a bar/restaurant where she actually worked at that time.

She was cited for getting into a fight with a customer while drunk. She was not on duty at the time but still, an awfully shocking thing to happen.

Before alcoholism started, she was the sweetest person you'd every want to know. I believe her father was alcoholic and I believe he physically abused her.

My father was unacceptably violent at times but I am not addicted to alcohol or drugs.

Have a nice weekend

Kittyboo

Omgoodness, Ghirl, and you have every reason to be angry and hurt.

I'm so sorry for his cowardly cruel actions. You're right, he should be begging for forgiveness, but he won't because that would be admitting that he did something wrong....and remember, in his twisted mind, he's just perfect.
Someone else had posted here once that they believe, and I believe it to, that in times of silence, when they are alone with themselves, most likely chugging a beer, they know... they know exactly the kinds of people they are, they know what they do that is wrong and hurtful deep deep down, they know..... and so what do they do? They will chug another beer so they can keep those feelings hidden and never deal with them and recognize them. That way they can go back to blaming everyone else and playing the victim.

I know that nothing I say can take away what he is saying about you. What I have tried to do the past few days is deal with being called a "psychotic and clearly insane" from someone I cared about so much, I try very hard to remember the source those words came from. I try to remember I know EXACTLY who I am. I know what the truth is. I know what is real and what is not. I know that, though I have made mistakes in life, I am a good person and have a good heart, and he will NEVER EVER be able to take that away from me.
And the same goes for you.