Bolina

Been reading a lot about the struggles many are having with boundaries at the moment. Despite learning about them quite a few years ago now, I still have difficulty with them, especially the last part about consequences. That's because I am a people pleaser and one thing that I have learnt about having boundaries and enforcing them is that It is almost impossible to enforce a boundary without upsetting the other person. There really is no getting away from that fact. People with healthy boundaries themselves don't have to be asked twice, so no consequences necessary.

We all set boundaries ever day without thinking about it. Imagine you are in a line at the grocery store and the person behind you is standing right behind you, close enough that you can feel their breath on your neck. What do you do?

I might take a step forward. If they stay where they are, then I have successfully set my boundary without even thinking about. But what if they closed the gap? I might ask them to move back. If they refused, the ball is then in my court. Do I move again? But perhaps there is no more space. Do I ask them again? Perhaps they refuse. Keep asking them, getting louder and more aggressive each time? And yet they still refuse. I could give them a gentle push backwards. But then they may retaliate and punch me in the nose.

Maybe, though, the safest way, and that which is more protective of my serenity, is to just move to another line. It might take a few more minutes to get my groceries. It might seem that they have "won". It probably won't get them to change their ways. It would save my blood pressure, though, AND it means that I am in a line without someone in my personal space. The neck-breather will possibly react with a comment about me being a snooty ***** or something (because not many like the consequences, as I said above), but really we are both in a better place. Going down the "well, you shouldn't stand so close in the first place" road doesn't get anyone anywhere in the heat of the moment.

Boundaries are not rules or threats or ultimatums. Nor do they form part of a power play between me and others or used to teach another adult a lesson. They are simply about me, both in their construction and their execution, and what I want in my life. As I said, I still have difficulty enforcing them with people I know, although these days it is mainly with those with whom I have to deal, rather than those with whom I choose to spend time. But I remember what it was like to scrabble around trying to grasp the whole concept until one day the lightbulb went off and I felt an internal shift and it all started to slot into place. So, keep posting and reading, all those who are having difficulties. It WILL happen for you too.

There are some good stickies about boundaries:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...oundaries.html

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...oundaries.html

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...oundaries.html

Ceres

Awsome post. Once the concept of boundaries was explained to me and I went about working on some. I realized right then, they've all already been crossed! :-P It was an eye opener. Getting real about what's acceptable or not for me, made ultimately ending our relationship an easy choice.

Thumper

I will re-read those stickies. I have a hard time with boundaries.

FindingPeace1

This is a eloquent post!!


My gripe list is actually a boundary list! OHH! LOL! What consequences do I want to set?

Thanks, again.

Kerbcrawler

Interesting subject..indeed mr holmes...boundaries how far you can go with something and still win the crowd..if i see through bullpoo..i find it very difficult to being subserviant to lies...many things in this life i feel the total opposite too..but voiceing my opinion to my total opposites may bring about a strong reaction of dissaproval...that may make me feel even more alone...so best say nothing and not go beyond the boundaries of convention that all live by...many like me begrudgingly...i must admit though i do get a twisted pleasure in pushing those boundaries...to make a point of truth or hypocrasy on certain subjects...i do like testing the waters so to speak...afterall
i think killing animals to eat is cruel and uneccessary...now good chance im pushing the boundaries of what is socially acceptable..and the norm..just a small example...so now am no longer mr popular with the hunter gatherer fraternity...but hey you cant please everyone all the time...i feel treadin a fine line an tryin to pls everyone is an impossibility
may as well say this is how i am an this is how i think..like me cool..dont thats ok..
but respect and tolerance of everybodys point of view..and not being disrespectful..each to there own respect..goodwill to all...sorry for going outwith the boundaries here...

TakingCharge999

Re noise, yesterday a neighbor was washing his car with superloud music. Ok it is a shared environment but it happens that it was way too loud and I was working from home.

So I went to the office, ignored the neighbor, just asked the apartments internal security policeman, if he could ask the neighbor to lower the volume. Ok I was not going to be there anymore, but he would think it is ok to disrespect others.

Re noise at other times,

earplugs.
iPod or music
go to the most silent room
leave



Another boundary I am starting to settle is, when angry, don't talk, breathe deeply and say I'd like to discuss the matter at some other time. If I counted how many stupid things I have said or done out of anger or sadness or abandonment feelings. If I go to my cave, reflect, then get back, I often got a plan in place and no resentments because I get it was not personal ...

Thanks for the links I need to check them out!! :ghug3

Bolina

I knew I had something else to say in my first post! So, thank you for reminding me about consequences.

I used to get all befuddled about the idea of consequences. I seemed to think it was like when you sent a child to his room after they misbehaved to teach them right from wrong. That's what consequences mean, right?

But no, there is a subtle difference when talking about boundaries. The consequences are about what I will do when confronted with a continued violation of my boundaries. Not what I will make someone else do.

Say a child has repeatedly knocked over a vase of flowers by being too boisterous nearby, despite being warned every time. I might send them to their room as punishment. The consequence might be that I move the vase out of reach. Or I say that only quiet play where there are things that can be knocked over, otherwise play elsewhere.

There's often a lot more neutrality and peace in boundaries than people think.

LaTeeDa

In my opinion, consequences occur naturally. I really don't have to think about consequences if I am taking proper actions to enforce my boundary.

Example: I buy a bag of candy to have in the house, which mostly gets eaten by my children. Later, I find candy wrappers in the living room. I don't like candy wrappers in the living room and say so. Next day candy wrappers are still there. I pick them up, but do not buy any more candy because I don't want to pick up wrappers. No candy for them is a natural consequence of me 'protecting' myself from cleaning up the wrappers.

Example 2: Whenever I call my mom, she spends at least 1/2 of our conversation extolling my brother's virtues. I know my brother is in trouble with the law, has problems keeping a job, and doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes. I tell my mom I don't want to talk about my brother. She continues to 'update' me on him whenever I call. I stop calling. Natural consequence is she doesn't receive calls from me anymore. My intent is not to take something away from her, but to protect myself from hearing the lies/fantasies.

L

Bolina

LaTeeDa - thank you, your candy example is much better than my vase one. I thought of it really as an example as a difference between punishment and consequence.

People will do what they want to do. Sometimes they are willing and able to accomodate my wishes. Sometimes they are not. It's up to me work with that. And vice versa, of course. I have to remember that not understanding my own boundaries meant that I often didn't understand those of other people, particularly surrounding the autonomy of my x (the alcoholic) to decide his own path through life.