Learn2Live

scape·goat (skpgt)
n.
1. One that is made to bear the blame of others.

skope

Thank you for all your replies.. it's amazing how you're all saying these things which I know are true and have known to be true for a long time. Although, I am scared of coming on here and reading everything, as it just makes me feel helpless and upset. I don't want to have to face up to the fact that he's never going to change.

I would def have got out of this relationship sooner, but we work together.. so seeing someone you have great feelings for everyday doesn't help. He knows he has a problem, has been cutting down a huge amount, but won't take the next step to get help. How do i make him see he needs to take that next step?

I made the decision after him goin out to his friends bday, that if he wants to drink to get drunk, I need to leave him to it. It was bank holiday weekend this weekend and he was just on edge all weekend cos he wanted to go out n get drunk with his mates "cos its bank holiday". Fri, I didn't want to so, I kept telling him to go meet his mates n I'd leave him to it, but he ended up drinking with me ( i wasn't drinking) and staying in.. basically the weekend ended up him desperate to get out n get drunk n cos it just didn't happen, he was on edge n weird all weekend. But he admitted to being childish.

After the bad weekend, I thought that maybe tnite we could hang out n goof about and have the laugh we never got over the weekend. But he said he wanted to spend some time alone at his place.. i took this as rejection and after a discussion in the car, he said he amditted he just wanted to get drunk and eat takeaway without worrying he was upsetting anybody, worrying he was being judged and worrying about if he had had too many.

So, why am i getting so upset that alcohol has been chosen over me? When i made that decision that if thats what he wnats to do, i'd leave him to it. I should just leave him to go get drunk cos i dont want to be around him when he is.

iwantcontrol

skope - i have done that too before - made the decision that i dont want to be around him when he's drinking and told him so, then been so upset when he just said 'ok, i wont see you tonight then'. I think i get so upset because in the back of my mind i'm saying it because i want him to say ok then, i wont drink tonight so i can see you. of course he never says that, and i feel resentful and upset. What we are supposed to be saying it for is our own sakes - becasue we dont want to be aorund them drinking and are choosing that to protect ourselves, not to get them to change. See, I understand that but I still cant say it and not get upset. I've got a long way to go. My ABF has had some bad medical news over the last few days and is drinking now instead of turnign to me for support - that hurts. We jsut have to find a way of dealing with it I guess.

skope

IWC, exactly.. cos hes just getting what he wants, isn't he.. hes getting that time away from the nagging gf to go nuts n drink.

Tuesday, he said he wanted alone time to pack (hes moving apartments in with his friend) and then after the discussion, he said he just wanted to go get drunk n have takeway to "celebrate the end of a lifestyle" whatever thats meant to mean. Wednesday, he stayed at his friends to help him move, so i never saw him and i'm assuming they'll have had a few drinks or more. I thought today, he's get in touch to say "come see my new apartment, i cant wait to see you, not seen you in ages, lets spend my first night here together etc etc"
But didnt hear from him all day, until i txt then received a 2 word reply from him. Then later in the evening i asked him if he was going out, and he said he was going to "have a drink to celebrate" so i replied, "well i guess i'll see you tomoro then?"
he replied asking what i meant and then "forget it", i said that he hadn't asked me to come round today and he just replied sayin he cant be arsed with my attitude?!

What the hell does that mean? Am I wrong? Am I needy? Isn't he supposed to want to spend time with me and for me to get involved and see his new place?

skope

But he's been practically living with me for the past 2 months and before that on and off for longer... now all of a sudden he just wants this? I don't get it.

Is what i'm asking for not normal for a relationship?

LaTeeDa

It's perfectly normal for a relationship, but not a relationship with an alcoholic. He already has a relationship--with alcohol. As long as he has THAT relationship, you will always come in second. (or third, fourth, fifth, etc.)

L

skope

But i didnt even bring up the going out for a drink and he's had a go at me for my attitude :s

LaTeeDa

Well, I can certainly see why you want so badly to be around him. He sounds so wonderful and charming................

L

skope

I don't get why he's being like this

naive

i would render a guess that he was practically living with you because that was convenient at the time. now, he has a new place and he wants to drink in peace.

step back and watch him probably loose his new place and then he will want to spend endless time with you at your place.

that's how it goes. if you are enabling the drinking, he will say anything to keep the status quo.

you need to understand that his first love is drink. he will use you to enable his drinking.

i'm sorry to be so blunt but that's what so many of us have lived. spare yourself the pain.

naive

Kassie2

Hi S,

You asked what you can do to support his depression and alcoholism. You got a lot of replies and information.

The short form is this: 1) he needs professional help for both, 2) you need to learn about alcoholism, 3) you need to be in alanon.

Alcoholism and depression will often go hand in hand. The alcohol nixes the positive affect of the antidepressant. It will often maximize the calming agent in the medication which creates another addiction.

I have been there and done that. Learned that I can: 1) take care of myself, 2) allow him to experience consequences and reality of his use, 3) I love him from a distance and learned from him that he responds well to limits.

iwantcontrol

skope - once again I have had almost identical conversations with my ABF. I'm really beginning to think mine just isn't worth all the hassle. Not saying I've made any decisions yet but I'm wondering whether I want this constant battle all for a 'normal' occurence in a relationship - like for him to turn up on time sober, or to call me and ask how I'm doing (sober) - these things would just be taken for granted in a relatonship with a non-A, and they certainyl wouldn't get brownie points for turning up sober once in a while. Lots for us both to think about.

skope

Thanks for your bluntness, it's what I need at times.. and i will re read it when i am at my lowest!

Kassie, how do i support and encourage him to get help as at the moment, he is ctting down himself but still gets edgy when he hasnt had a drink pr when friday comes all he wants to do is go an get drunk n sleep, which he is currently doin now (not with me as we've had an arguement)

3) I love him from a distance and learned from him that he responds well to limits.

How did you do this?

On another note, we had an argument today cos he said I wasn't understanding enough by expecting him to txt or call me over the past couple days to let me know how the moving apartments was going and being unreasonable by stating that i was upset that i was not involved in the move at all, and shut out from the whole thing. But i dont think this argument is alcohol related, it's more about his ability to handle stressful situations.

skope

BF has just gone off one.. he's stressed out about work and lots of other things, he's just lost two friends due to loooong story, one was ex flatmate and they just didn't get on. They were just drinking buddies to be honest. So he's better off without them, but feels its his fault they're no longer friends.
As I wasn't understanding enough or empathising enough with him during his "48 hours of moving flat", and he doesn't get why i was upset about being shut out from his moving apartment time.. so I told him i'd leave him to it and he knew where i was if he needed me. But now cos i've been leaving him to it, I've been accused of "not being normal and being distant and why can't everything just go back to normal?!" I said that i didn't want to be that "added pressure" he accused me of being.
Then it went down his usual route of "i've ****** up again, i just walk around hurting and upsetting ppl, i'm not normal, i can't handle stress and therefore am not in the right job. I'm a **** up n i shouldn't have any attachments as i have no morals and dont knwo whats right or wrong"

I left the convo with "you know where i am, and when/if you wanna see me, i'll wait for you to get in touch" but i knew as i was saying it, i hated it.. cos then that leaves him to do as he pleases.. go out as he pleases, drink with his mates i.e just drop me when it gets a bit tough and then when he "needs" me, he'll call on me, n there i'll be waiting.

Argh!

skope

Cos he's supposed to be my bf, and we're supposed to spend time together. He just feels he can push me away when he feels like it?

Jadmack25

Quote ((("i've ****** up again, i just walk around hurting and upsetting ppl, i'm not normal, i can't handle stress and therefore am not in the right job. I'm a **** up n i shouldn't have any attachments as i have no morals and dont knwo whats right or wrong".)))

It is all true....he is all of the above, because he is in the grip of his DOC. He doesn't really know what he wants or needs, only that he wants and needs a drink or twenty each day.
He only wants or needs you when he is in strife, needs help or isn't busy elsewhere.

You may want him to morph into a regular, standard boyfriend, but you will be waiting til hell freezes over, because he can NEVER be that sort of man.

Leave him to walk the path HE has chosen, and start concentrating on your problems, your growth and your future.

You do not have a future with him, nobody does.

God bless

coffeedrinker

skope,

the way i see this, is that you have expectations of how a b.friend should behave. i think everyone here has stated that he simply does not fit into that mold.

if you go to the pet store and say you want to buy a doggie, but they say all we have is kitties; do you want one of those? and you say ok but what i really want is a doggie, then take the kitty home and keep expecting it to bark, fetch, and pant. well, how could you not be sad with your kitty?

sesh

Well, honey, he is who he is, an you can take it or leave it.
Judging by what you said he has made that clear.
here is something you can try to believe now or few years down the line:
THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO MAKE HIM DO WHAT YOU WANT HIM TO DO!!!
And for whys and supposed and the rest:
Well, life is not fair.
We can't always have what we want.
But we can act to these facts:
we can either keep banging our head against the wall and cry WHY (and I promise that hurts like hell)
or we can cut our loses and remove ourselves from the situation.
I'm being blunt here as I really regret I was unable to understand this years ago, it would save me tremendous amount of pain.

iwantcontrol

i do agree with what people have said to some extent although I'm in the same situation and haven't acted on all the advice just yet. I wonder though if saying these men can NEVER be the BFs we want is true? Surely if they choose recovery of their own accord, and see it through, then they can be, as RAs?

Skope - Your posts seem similar to mine a few months ago, and the only advice I can give you is to try really hard to focus on yourself and not on him all of the time. Even if it is just baby steps to start with. I'm making baby steps myself and sometimes I feel I'm getting nowhere, but I'm slowly realising that the way I react to the situation can change that situation for me, e.g. if he is saying things like 'i don't want to see you tonight', then instead of getting really upset and arguing about it (because that wont change his mind if he's already decided he's going to drink instead), I've tried to just say something like 'Oh OK, thats a shame but I understand. I have a few things I could do tonight anyway. Perhaps we could meet another day'. Then you feel partly as if you're involved in the decision too, and it doesn't feel so bad.
Sounds like you already do this really.
Is he still cutting down on drink?

sesh

I don't think anyone here is saying what alcoholics can be or can not be never or ever. I think we are all talking about who are they today, and how painful is to live through that Groundhog day over and over again for us. No one can tell what future holds for any of us.
But the question one should ask is: how long am I willing to wait? It might happen in a year, 10 years, 20 or never? How much of my life I'm willing to spend waiting and hurting?
And even if they do recover they are going to be who they want to be, who they've become after all this they've been through. I don't think it's likely to expect an RA to become the person he was before drinking like nothing happened, because first it has affected his personality in so many levels and even more important there was something wrong with that person to begin with, bacause if it wasn't he wouldn't become an A in a first place.
So, yes I do believe it is possible for an A to recover, to work on him/herself and become better person, but what are the odds of this new person that's emerging being the one you want?
Would you wait at the closed train station hoping some day the yellow train with red dots (or whatever your preferance) will come, or would you rather go and take your own car and drive yourself where you want to go?
I don't mean to sound harsh to you, I guess I'm just angry with myself for not realizing these things sooner.