grrl77

Hey guys. It's been awhile. Been a good last four months or so. I've been feeling strong, focusing more on me, and less on my exAH.

The last time we spoke was about four months ago, where he'd called to thank me for the book I sent him for Christmas. He went off about how guilty he felt that he doesn't do things like that for people, not even his family. We got into some past stuff, and it turned ugly real fast. I wound up hanging up on him, where we proceeded not to have any contact up until five nights or so ago. He'd shot me an instant message about some band he was into. The convo was fine, until he asks me for a little booty call action, essentially. My response was something to the effect of, are you effing kidding me dude? You ignored me for four months, you don't just get to pick and choose what you want here. Sorry. Fast forward to a couple of nights ago. He approaches me again, he's in a good mood, he was asking me a question that required a longer answer for, and I was on my phone IM-ing with him from bed, and said hey, let me give you a call and we can discuss it. I didn't want to type out 842 lines on a cell phone. He gets weird about me calling. "Let's just keep it here," he says. So I say, "What, four nights ago, you wanted me to call ya and now you're just not interested in talking to me?" I realize I probably should have just let it go, but I was annoyed. He apparently didn't remember what he'd requested four nights prior, then goes totally quiet. The next day (this would have been two days ago) I get this random instant message that he's "with someone else."

I've spent the last two days livid, and I've not been able to figure out why, until just recently. I need to talk this out, so bear with me.

I'm angry because (and this is where I sound all martyr-esque), I gave an entire year of my life to this man. I put up with all the drama, took collateral damage daily, tried to constantly hold us together, when all he did was pick up the bottle. I'm left with all the BS and reality, and he just gets to escape all the time. Numerous months after we ended, he'd told me that he knows there's no way he could be with someone serious in the condition he's in. He knows he needs to get help, he'd say.

And so now he's going to bring someone new into his life? WTF? I mean, this isn't a jealousy thing. I don't want him back. He's really ill and has no desire to really get better. But it's almost like by him bringing someone into his life, it's completely making what he said about having a problem and all the I'm sorries about how he treated me, completely moot. It's like he's forgetting what he did to me. So now he's going to potentially take out some one else who's gonna fall for him. Great.

My first instinct was to gather my thoughts, whip him up when I know he's sober, and tell him exactly what I think and never look back. Then I came down a bit, and realized I cannot control his actions, or her actions. Hopefully she's smarter than I was, and decides to run fast and far from that hot mess. As for speaking with him, the reality is, I don't know that it'd do any good. He knows on some level, he hurt me, and how bad. He dealt with the many late night calls of me crying on the other end, and I'm sure he remembers the apologies. So... I guess this means he doesn't really care? Which would mean that our entire relationship was a sham. A fantasy. I never know when I'm being too dramatic, and this feels dramatic, admittedly.

I just never thought I'd be this angry. It's just two-fold, for me. I'd love for him to find someone that makes him happy. Everyone deserves that. I just want him to do it for real. Get some help, work on himself, then find someone. Stop hurting people. Stop being so self-absorbed. But reaching out now, at this juncture in his life, is just like a blow to the gut to me. It's like he's backing out on everything he ever said he was sorry for, because he's just going to potentially do it to someone else. I want to punch him in the face. I wanna shake him. I wanna yell, "What the fsck is your problem?! What are you DOING?!"

Argh, I'm just so angry!

lulu1974

I am so sorry you are going through this. Sadly what he did is pretty classic behavior. He wants to manipulate you and he know if he hurts you there is a good chance he will get your attention again. Its just a tactic they use sadly. Since they no longer have control they tend to go for your jugular (did I spell that right?) because they want to know you still care. This will pass and once you realize his motives it will get easier. Usually when you hear from them they have something up their sleeve...

LaTeeDa

I felt the same way for a while after my marriage ended. Except it was 20 years of my life, and I was holding 'us' together including two children. And you know what? He still gets to escape all the time. Right now he's got a gig working in Alaska for 6 weeks at a time with 4 weeks off. He blows into town during his time off, buys things for the kids, takes them places and off he goes again. He's not here for the 24/7 trials and tribulations, making ends meet, food on the table, paying the bills, shuffling kids to and from tennis, track, art exhibits, filling out financial aid applications for college, meeting with school counselors.......I could go on and on.

The point here is I chose to spend all those years like I did, and I am choosing what I do now. It's not something he did to me. His life, his choices. My life, my choices.

You can choose to give him space in your head for free, or you can ignore him and get on with your life. Your choice.

L

Jadmack25

It IS NOT YOU. He needs someone to be there, he needs an enabler, and he knows you are on to him so no use trying to suck you back into his cess pool. He has someone new, who may have to go thru the same cr*p you did, and learn the same lessons or they may get wise and get out sooner.

Take it as a compliment to your having grown past his sh*t, and not qualifying as an A's sucker anymore. Pat yourself on the back Grrl, he got that message loud and clear....I am over you and you are too small a man for me. That is the message he got...now go and repeat it to yourself til you get it.

I am over you. You are too small a man for me.

God bless

coffeedrinker

Here are my thoughts:

you gave him a year?
thank God it was only that long.

he does know about the sadness, the crying, and he is sorry...on some level.
it doesn't mean he doesn't care, it means he can't deal.

but

he "gets to" escape all the time? i don't think that's a game-show vacation. he has to live with himself, and the messes he's made, every day of his life. you, on the other hand, get to live with your integrity and dignity.

grrl77

I don't think he's some cruel jackass. I obviously fell in love with some part of him, absolutely. And I *do* know he's sad, and feels terrible. Alcoholism is a disease that causes a lot of shame and embarrassment, and I get that. I'm empathetic. It's why I stuck it out for as long as I did.

But why would he turn around and decide to bring someone else into that? *Again*? That's my thing. I just don't understand that. It's like he's narcissistic.

wicked

Well, narcissism could be part of it, but it could just be the complete self-absorption of someone actively using.
And, I doubt very seriously that he is concerned about what he is bringing the new girl into, no matter what he told you. she will probably hear the same words that he can remember "worked" with you.
Beth

grrl77

I guess that's what's so hard for me to separate. I *know* when he told me he cared for me, he was sorry, etc - he meant it on some level. I know this. Without a doubt. I could see it in his eyes, I could feel it in how he'd touch me. I realize that sounds romanticized, but it's true. We used to talk about what kind of wedding napkins we'd have, heh. Going from that to him telling me, "I dont know why you called me, dont you have someone else you can call that's not 3,000 mi away?" Just some of the most hurtful sh*t you can think of, and it's like.. what did I do to deserve that? I've only ever loved and cared for you, and you hate me for it. It's just not even the same guy.

wicked

oh grrl77,
wow, i can relate to that pain. my ex used my struggles against alcoholism and depression to jab me. very hurtful.
i was sure that he meant it when he said he needed me and loved me too. I finally figured out that we were talking about two different things when we were talking about love. we weren't on the same page, we werent in the same book or even in the same library.
i might not know what love is, but i have surely learned what love isn't.
Beth

grrl77

Hmm. That's a good point. When he gets off on his kicks thinking that i want him (he really thinks that i wanna be with him still, even though we barely talk, hehe) I just want to tell him, "ExAH, no offense, but you're not even half the man I need." He can't even take care of himself. He buries himself in booze to turn away from issues he should deal with. Toward the end, he was absent 90% of the time, and it just became too much. It wasn't even a relationship, and it broke my heart. I'd had hopes and dreams for us. I thought they were the same ones he shared. I think they were, I just don't think he was in any position to really give it - not to me, not to new chick, not to anyone - until he gets help.

lulu1974

I want to make sure I say this as lovingly as I mean it..Maybe he isnt a jackass but his actions were pretty cruel. Would you do that to him?
Deep inside the man you fell in love with may be there somewhere but the alcoholic side of him can be very cruel and will be. So its like you never know what side you will get..But accepting who he is now versus who you think he is may be important. I wouldnt say what he said..would you? And its about you now...Your serenity and peace..

grrl77

Yeah, Lulu. You're right. I just miss him. It's like... watching the death of someone.

lulu1974

I know. I really do. If you have a higher power I would give this to them. I still pray for mine and that gives me comfort. But for now...this is my reality. This disease is a family disease. And it affects mentally, spiritually and physically.
I miss the man I thought he was. But there is no one home there anymore so I can only focus on me..But I still pray for his healing. I know reconciliation wont happen but I pray he has a miracle one day. I gave mine 8 years. Now I will give the next 50 years to myself...

grrl77

I'm in that same mindframe, in a lot of ways. I want him to be happy. More than anything, though, despite how selfish this post might sound, I want him to get better. I pray for him daily, even though he doesn't believe in God. I don't think that matters. I just worry a lot. He doesn't have anyone in his life that's real close. He pushes everyone away. I just get pissed that he doesn't take responsibility for things. He'll sit here and be like "I know I'm fcked up. I know I need help," then turn around and do the things he does, and say horrible mean things to me, and it's just.. this monster.

I know though, realistically, I can't control him. I couldn't control anything when I was with him, let alone now, eighteen months later.

wicked

heehee, yep, my ex would gladly come back, and he thinks if he tells me how much he hates the drunken girlfriend he has, i should be flattered. LOL uh, not!

I wonder if my ex would ever understand me, or ever be able to be a fully functioning part of society. He has gone so far down the road, and I think he has actually damaged his brain with alcohol and crack. Well, of course, he's being doing it so many years.

I am a recovering alcoholic, I drank for twenty years. From 16 to 36 (with breaks during my pregnancies, i could not keep the beer down when i was pregnant, thank god). I was miserable and when i was taken for assessment, it finally occurred to me "i dont have to live like this anymore!"
that was the first time that thought had ever entered my mind. i have not had a drink since that night. i know that is rare, but i was so relieved, i would practically grab people and say "i am an alcoholic, i cant drink!" LOL Like i was pregnant, "no thanks, none for me, i am pregnant" hehehe
Well, the point of this trip down memory lane is, when people get a good amount of recovery behind them, and know they don't have to live that way anymore, why go back out there? why do it again and again and again? when you have people who love you like only a codependent can.
When people on this forum say "I know he can be that person I fell in love with, that good person who loved me and we had lovely plans for the future", I wonder if that person was ever really there. Or, that lovely person was there, but just for a moment, and then poof! gone with the substance.
So, I am an alcoholic, but that is not all that I am. It is part of me, but not an excuse to behave atrociously to people who love me. I am an addict and now struggling with the codependent part of me, wanting to "fix" my children. Sigh.....
I wonder if my sincere desire for my ex to get well clouded my vision to who he really is, as a person, a man, a father or a husband. Every time I gave him one more chance to get it right, a little piece of me died, because I was projecting the hope I had onto him.
Maybe he was never the man I thought he was or could be, the entire thing was a delusion fueled by alcohol. and that is so sad, so very sad for him.
Anyway, after all this, I guess my question is, after they relapse so many times, or use for so many years is it possible that the person actually gets lost in there? Or, even worse never existed, and it was all just an illusion?
I don't know, but I do know I want something different now. something entirely different.
thanks for reading my ruminations. lol
beth

lulu1974

Sorry but that was my stbexhusband you described. Then one day he didnt want anything to do with me after beggind me to come back. Its such a battle. and It get us crazy

grrl77

Wow, Beth. You hit on so many good points. I wonder that, too, sometimes. I just wonder wtf happened to me, heh. I've had great relationships in the past. I met him (we met online) and it was fantastic. We'd talk all the time, we'd have fun, we were just so into eachother. I remember one afternoon, we laughed about getting Batman wedding napkins for our wedding reception. I went out and met him, he came here, met my family.. Somewhere in there, as our relationship started to progress, he was like "I really need to get some help." Our relationship was suffering. I mean, he was so absent. When all you have his the internet and phone for the majority of the time, and you go to call and he's loaded, and either says something sweet that you take to heart, only to have the next day come, and it's like it never existed because he doesn't remember, or he's a jerk and says something really mean and then not remember it the next day, but he's concerned that I'm upset because he knew he probably said something dumb. And then I'd bust him on it. Then he'd be appalled. He'd feel bad. It'd make me sad, because I could hear the shame and pain in his voice. And we'd have the talk of, "We really need to do something," and he'd say he knew. So then he came up with this plan to get help within a set timeframe. I know there was a part of him that wanted to do it, if not for himself, for me. I know he cared for me, despite it all. When he came out here for a camping trip, he'd stayed sober the entire time. It was hard, but he did it. But I think it was all for me. Not for himself. And I think when it came down to it, he wasn't ready to quit, so this timeframe thing he set up was a big set up for failure, in a sense. Rather than fail, two weeks before the date he'd picked, he called me up and ended it. Of course, I was crushed. All my dreams for us were shattered, all i wanted was for him to get better, and for us to be okay like I knew we could be. Underneath it all, he was this beautiful man still. Just a broken, beautiful man.

Heh. As I sit here and write this, a part of me feels really lousy for being so mad. I don't think he's ever tried for anyone before me. Maybe all his anger and stuff comes from knowing he couldn't give me what he wanted. I don't really know. It doesn't excuse him acting like a jackarse though. Not giving him any leeway there, or anything. Didn't mean it like that. I don't deserve to be disrespected. It's just now I've kinda made it all about poor me, when look what he was goign through and tried to do.

I'm running on fourteen hours at work here, so I think I'm getting rather emotional. But now I'm just really, really sad and somewhat angry at myself. I don't know why I keep pining over something that's been over for awhile. I just really, really miss who I knew him to be. And he's gone.

wanting

Are you seeing a therapist? I don't mean to sound harsh, but didn't you and he break up a year and a half ago? I'm not saying there's a timeframe for moving on, but it just seems like you run around the same feelings over and over again. I just think a therapist could help you work through it all, help you get to the next level in healing.

From where I'm sitting (and I know it's hard to convey things properly on the interwebz), I see two themes in your posts. The first is that you romanticize everything, including your breakup. You refuse to even consider that this guy might have just decided that you were incompatible or that the relationship was too much work or that his feelings for you just faded. I'm only pointing that out because I wonder what about that would be so hard for you to consider. Just sit there and say to yourself, "He just didn't love me anymore." What is so horrible about that? What does that say about you?

When I considered the possibility that my XH might have just simply not loved me anymore, it was devastating at first. I tried for a while to blame it on alcohol, on being new to sobriety, on whatever. When I faced the fact that he might just not love me anymore, I was left with my deeper feeling - that I was actually unlovable. But I was finally able to break through those deeper problems in my life (stemming from my father abandoning me after my mother died). Faced with the possibility of being unlovable, I had only myself to look to for healing and being OK. I had to figure out whether *I* thought I was unlovable. What anyone else thought didn't matter. I'm not saying *that* is your issue, but the fact that you refuse to consider this possibility may indicate that you have some deeper issue with yourself that you could explore with a therapist.

The second theme is sort of one where you are the mother who knows best and your X is a child who isn't capable of making good decisions for himself. I recognize it because I've done it with my XH, and because I've seen loads of other codependents do it as well. What I found for myself was that it was just another mechanism to avoid dealing with *my own* problems. As long as I could focus on his problems, I could ignore my own. It was hard, hard, hard, to focus on my own problems and my own life. I remember having this sudden panic when I considered the possibility of taking XH out of my thoughts. I realized how little I really had to make me happy (and on some level, the crazy unhealthy dynamic between XH and me made me feel fulfilled) and how much I had to work through before I could live the life I really wanted to live. I could spout off a list of things and people and activities I had in my life that I was thankful for, but I was really empty inside.

I hope that is helpful in some way.

grrl77

I just recently started to talk to a therapist a couple of weeks ago. I have an appointment this coming Thursday, so I think it's probably a good topic I bring up. I can't say that I love having the topic always revisited. There will be months where I don't even think about it much. Then we'll have some conversation, or I'll run into him, and he'll reminisce about something, and even then, sometimes it's alright. This time around, it was just him telling me he'd met someone else. It just spawned this whole thing in my head.

I'm not against thinking that perhaps he just lost feelings for me, but I guess it just didn't seem to make sense. Two weeks prior to it all, he was telling his parents all about me. Showing them photos of our trip. We hadn't fought, or had a bad time. I just think there was a lot of pressure on him to keep with this "I'll seek help by X date," and he just wasn't ready for it. I'm not saying we didn't have issues, and there's definitely issues I should resolve in myself, too. I ask myself a lot of times, why did I even stay? The second he told me he had trouble with booze, why didn't I say, "Hey. I really like you. A lot. But you should probably seek help, and when you've done that and get all squared away, look me up." Instead, I (like you said) romanticized it and thought, "Ooo, maybe I could be the reason he gets help, and we'll make it through this hard time, and come out on the other side to lillies and tulips and kitties and sunbeams! Yay!" Didn't quite work that way.

I've made myself invisible to him on instant messenger, so he can't see when I'm online. Since he never calls me, or reaches out except when he's horny or bored, I figure that covers that whole spectrum.

Carol Star

The best revenge is to go live a wonderful life. He did you a favor to maybe help you move on a little faster. He's your X for some reason. No contact is best for me and it took years to get that in my skull. Why put myself through the ca ca? You go live your best life free of chaos and lies.