He says I shouldn't be upset. (longish!)
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 277
He says I shouldn't be upset. (longish!)
Ugh. Long time since I have posted. Married 17 years to a rather functioning alcoholic - who, at the end of last year, really took a turn for the worse. After seeing a counselor (who he hated) and lots of talking - he really has tried to make a change for the better in 2010. We have a teenage son..who hates to see his dad drunk, as well. Son has been involved in the counseling and the talks.
Recently we went away for the weekend and on the plane trip, ah got smashed and was drunk at the breakfast table in the airport. Said that won't happen again. I thought he meant getting smashed. He meant getting smashed at breakfast.
Fast forward to this past weekend where he knew he'd be arriving home from a biz trip to having my family visiting from out of state. It's 8:30pm, he arrives (taxi) home drunk, says hello to everyone, and goes to bed.
Each of these occasions where he gets smashed is like a punch in the gut to me. It is a reminder of the problem that he has. He says I shouldn't be angry because he didn't stagger or embarass me - he got drunk and no one had to deal with it...so it didn't hurt anyone and I shouldn't be mad.
He's angry because I'm not being the loving wifey. I had already told him that I needed a level of separation so that I didn't get hurt every time he gets wasted...normally these episodes would send me reeling and I would almost lose a day of work not being able to focus. However, I found that if I don't get too close, the effects are not so bad.
He says he's getting better but not getting any reward for it. I said, I have been better too. I don't nag you about your drinking anymore. It's true too - I also said: you mean you are drinking like a normal person? Him: I don't know... I said, well, trash was taken out Tuesday, why don't we go count beer bottles? He replies: no, we're not doing that. We both know he's drinking like a fish once everyone goes to bed.
Gah.
I hate when he tells me I shouldn't be upset. That's crazy talk - no one can tell me how to feel!
I don't know why I'm posting this - therapy, I guess. Maybe someone will feel not alone in a similar situation.
Recently we went away for the weekend and on the plane trip, ah got smashed and was drunk at the breakfast table in the airport. Said that won't happen again. I thought he meant getting smashed. He meant getting smashed at breakfast.
Fast forward to this past weekend where he knew he'd be arriving home from a biz trip to having my family visiting from out of state. It's 8:30pm, he arrives (taxi) home drunk, says hello to everyone, and goes to bed.
Each of these occasions where he gets smashed is like a punch in the gut to me. It is a reminder of the problem that he has. He says I shouldn't be angry because he didn't stagger or embarass me - he got drunk and no one had to deal with it...so it didn't hurt anyone and I shouldn't be mad.
He's angry because I'm not being the loving wifey. I had already told him that I needed a level of separation so that I didn't get hurt every time he gets wasted...normally these episodes would send me reeling and I would almost lose a day of work not being able to focus. However, I found that if I don't get too close, the effects are not so bad.
He says he's getting better but not getting any reward for it. I said, I have been better too. I don't nag you about your drinking anymore. It's true too - I also said: you mean you are drinking like a normal person? Him: I don't know... I said, well, trash was taken out Tuesday, why don't we go count beer bottles? He replies: no, we're not doing that. We both know he's drinking like a fish once everyone goes to bed.
Gah.
I hate when he tells me I shouldn't be upset. That's crazy talk - no one can tell me how to feel!
I don't know why I'm posting this - therapy, I guess. Maybe someone will feel not alone in a similar situation.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
That does sound tough, and painful, and frustrating.
Do you go to counseling too? I'm not sure what to advice, other then that. I saw a counselor for a short time and it helped me so much. Once I get my ducks in a row and can take the time off work again, I'm going back.
Do you go to counseling too? I'm not sure what to advice, other then that. I saw a counselor for a short time and it helped me so much. Once I get my ducks in a row and can take the time off work again, I'm going back.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 277
My plan, was, for 2009 - to address him and his problem. The plan for 2010 is to work on me (and my son) so that we can hopefully live as a family for the next 4 years, as a minimum. We do have a counselor - I don't see her very often...truth is, he really has been better about keeping the crazy drunk episodes to a minimum..and he does spend time with us and really tries to be a good father. Staying together means a lot for my son. If we separate, his highschool life will be tougher and his options for college reduced. Our life, with ah, is right now a net positive.
My counselor made me make a list of what I can't tolerate. She said I need to have such a list because the line may become blurred over time. I also have to work on my health, my friends, my network - so that, if we do separate, I won't be starting from scratch. I think this is healthy even if we do stay together!
These arguments we have just stink. I'm getting blamed for his drinking ("You're not giving me positive reinforcement", he says) and I'm told I shouldn't be mad.
Well, what about me? What about what I want? I'd love a husband who was completely sober at least 3-4 nights a week....and he says I'm changing the rules. There really is no talking about this stuff. It makes a person's head spin...and if I don't have my wits about me, the discussions truly are ridiculous.
My counselor made me make a list of what I can't tolerate. She said I need to have such a list because the line may become blurred over time. I also have to work on my health, my friends, my network - so that, if we do separate, I won't be starting from scratch. I think this is healthy even if we do stay together!
These arguments we have just stink. I'm getting blamed for his drinking ("You're not giving me positive reinforcement", he says) and I'm told I shouldn't be mad.
Well, what about me? What about what I want? I'd love a husband who was completely sober at least 3-4 nights a week....and he says I'm changing the rules. There really is no talking about this stuff. It makes a person's head spin...and if I don't have my wits about me, the discussions truly are ridiculous.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 12
My husband just had another relapse and he is the same way. I am not to have any feelings of anger or sadness. He wants me to greet him with open arms and say everything will be ok, push the whole thing aside and forget about it. IT’S SO FRUSTRATING!!!
I have learned I need to detach from him so these situations do not have such a huge affect on me. It sounds like you have started to do this yourself. Good luck! You are not alone. Thank you for your post.
I have learned I need to detach from him so these situations do not have such a huge affect on me. It sounds like you have started to do this yourself. Good luck! You are not alone. Thank you for your post.
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,866
My advice....stop the discussions. They are useless and only give him (in his mind) more reasons to drink. Stop having expectations where he is concerned. Learn to detach and focus on you and your son. Don't take the bait when he tries to get you to engage. Stick around this board and read, read, read. There are a lot of people here who have been through the same thing and their experience, strength and hope can help you tremendously. 
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 277
Originally Posted by suki44883 
My advice....stop the discussions. They are useless and only give him (in his mind) more reasons to drink. Stop having expectations where he is concerned. Learn to detach and focus on you and your son. Don't take the bait when he tries to get you to engage. Stick around this board and read, read, read. There are a lot of people here who have been through the same thing and their experience, strength and hope can help you tremendously.
My reply: do we really have to do this now?
So we do, apparently. I tell him I'm angry about his coming home drunk to my family....and there we go. He says: You're angry 5 days later, STILL?
ugh.
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,866
You just walk away. You work on not letting what he does make you angry. You learn detachment.
First: Establish emotional boundaries between you and the person, place or thing with whom you have become overly enmeshed or dependent on.
Second: Take back power over your feelings from persons, places or things which in the past you have given power to affect your emotional well-being.
Third: "Hand over" to your Higher Power the persons, places and things which you would like to see changed but which you cannot change on your own.
Fourth: Make a commitment to your personal recovery and self-health by admitting to yourself and your Higher Power that there is only one person you can change and that is yourself and that for your serenity you need to let go of the "need" to fix, change, rescue or heal other persons, places and things.
Fifth: Recognize that it is "sick" and "unhealthy" to believe that you have the power or control enough to fix, correct, change, heal or rescue another person, place or thing if they do not want to get better nor see a need to change.
Sixth: Recognize that you need to be healthy yourself and be "squeaky clean" and a "role model" of health in order for another to recognize that there is something "wrong" with them that needs changing.
Seventh: Continue to own your feelings as your responsibility and not blame others for the way you feel.
Eighth: Accept personal responsibility for your own unhealthy actions, feelings and thinking and cease looking for the persons, places or things you can blame for your unhealthiness.
Ninth: Accept that addicted fixing, rescuing, enabling are "sick" behaviors and strive to extinguish these behaviors in your relationship to persons, places and things.
Tenth: Accept that many people, places and things in your past and current life are "irrational," "unhealthy" and "toxic" influences in your life, label them honestly for what they truly are, and stop minimizing their negative impact in your life.
Eleventh: Reduce the impact of guilt and other irrational beliefs which impede your ability to develop detachment in your life.
Twelfth: Practice "letting go" of the need to correct, fix or make better the persons, places and things in life over which you have no control or power to change.
Look for Al-anon meetings in your area. They can help you.
First: Establish emotional boundaries between you and the person, place or thing with whom you have become overly enmeshed or dependent on.
Second: Take back power over your feelings from persons, places or things which in the past you have given power to affect your emotional well-being.
Third: "Hand over" to your Higher Power the persons, places and things which you would like to see changed but which you cannot change on your own.
Fourth: Make a commitment to your personal recovery and self-health by admitting to yourself and your Higher Power that there is only one person you can change and that is yourself and that for your serenity you need to let go of the "need" to fix, change, rescue or heal other persons, places and things.
Fifth: Recognize that it is "sick" and "unhealthy" to believe that you have the power or control enough to fix, correct, change, heal or rescue another person, place or thing if they do not want to get better nor see a need to change.
Sixth: Recognize that you need to be healthy yourself and be "squeaky clean" and a "role model" of health in order for another to recognize that there is something "wrong" with them that needs changing.
Seventh: Continue to own your feelings as your responsibility and not blame others for the way you feel.
Eighth: Accept personal responsibility for your own unhealthy actions, feelings and thinking and cease looking for the persons, places or things you can blame for your unhealthiness.
Ninth: Accept that addicted fixing, rescuing, enabling are "sick" behaviors and strive to extinguish these behaviors in your relationship to persons, places and things.
Tenth: Accept that many people, places and things in your past and current life are "irrational," "unhealthy" and "toxic" influences in your life, label them honestly for what they truly are, and stop minimizing their negative impact in your life.
Eleventh: Reduce the impact of guilt and other irrational beliefs which impede your ability to develop detachment in your life.
Twelfth: Practice "letting go" of the need to correct, fix or make better the persons, places and things in life over which you have no control or power to change.
Look for Al-anon meetings in your area. They can help you.
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,649
Each of these occasions where he gets smashed is like a punch in the gut to me. It is a reminder of the problem that he has. He says I shouldn't be angry because he didn't stagger or embarass me - he got drunk and no one had to deal with it...so it didn't hurt anyone and I shouldn't be mad.
Does he have any kind of recovery program? There is AA which I use and other non-faith based programs. I finally realized I could not recover on my own. Maybe he still thinks he can do it on his own? Most can't.
Does he understand that he has a disease?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Over the years I've been coming here, I've seen a handful of people make the choice to stay with an active alcoholic and actually find peace with their decision. I always admired them because they managed to do something I could not do.
You have made the choice to stay, at least for another four years. The only way you are going to find peace with that choice is to accept him as he is. He's not going to change just because you have granted him the honor of your presence for four more years.
Right now, it sounds like the two of you are locked in a power struggle. Setting aside how unhealthy this must be for your son, whom you claim to be the one you are doing it for, it is not healthy for you.
The only way I have ever seen a situation like yours work out well is through acceptance and clearly defined boundaries.
Getting angry at him for drinking does not help anyone. You choose to stay with an alcoholic, so accept that he will drink. It's what they do. Now, having accepted that, what can you do to minimize the impact on your peace and serenity? What boundaries can you put in place? Not rules for him to follow, but boundaries where you take care of yourself and your son.
L
You have made the choice to stay, at least for another four years. The only way you are going to find peace with that choice is to accept him as he is. He's not going to change just because you have granted him the honor of your presence for four more years.
Right now, it sounds like the two of you are locked in a power struggle. Setting aside how unhealthy this must be for your son, whom you claim to be the one you are doing it for, it is not healthy for you.
The only way I have ever seen a situation like yours work out well is through acceptance and clearly defined boundaries.
Getting angry at him for drinking does not help anyone. You choose to stay with an alcoholic, so accept that he will drink. It's what they do. Now, having accepted that, what can you do to minimize the impact on your peace and serenity? What boundaries can you put in place? Not rules for him to follow, but boundaries where you take care of yourself and your son.
L
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Reality, NJ
Posts: 853
WOW. If it helps at all..those exact words were used on me. And I mean all of them. I got accused of throwing it in his face..I got accused of not forgiving and letting go and I was told many times he had it under control. I was also told it shouldnt bother me as he would just pass out and was only hurting himself. They all really do say the same thing.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 277
Originally Posted by lulu1974
WOW. If it helps at all..those exact words were used on me. And I mean all of them. I got accused of throwing it in his face..I got accused of not forgiving and letting go and I was told many times he had it under control. I was also told it shouldnt bother me as he would just pass out and was only hurting himself. They all really do say the same thing.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Reality, NJ
Posts: 853
Originally Posted by whereisthisgoin
So, do you guys talk about it anymore? What do you do if he brings up the topic when he is sober?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
I did ultimately make the decision to pursue a life without my XABF in part because of his addiction, but more so it was his behavior that had turned so ugly and began progressively worsening. He blamed it on his acoholism, but regardless of the cause of it, I could not live with it. I do wonder if I had sought recovery and learned the tools I have now earlier on, if I would have been able to keep a relationship with him. I understand that it would not have been the realtionship I set out to have with him, but maybe it would have been one that I would have been happy with. I'll never know, and I am okay with that.
While I was living with an active alcoholic, and using the tools I gained in recovery, I have to admit I was much more at peace and happier than I had been for a while. Working on true detachment with compassion, curbing my enabling, and setting firm boundaries that I followed through on made this possible. What it also did, however, was escalate his disease and worsen his behavior. I understand now that it was his resistance to the change in me that drove this, and I had to accept the disease process, but in my heart I always wanted it to spur him to get better not worse.
Whereisthisgoing, you are making progress in your detachment, acceptance, and boundaries. It is about progress not perfection so be patient. My XABF did ask me what my problem was all the time for years. I had much the same reaction as you in which I told him what was making me unhappy and we'd argue about his drinking, how much, when, why etc.
When my recovery became more practiced, he stopped asking. I think that had to do with the fact that his drinking no longer mattered to me only his behavior. I no longer saw his stumbling in drunk as something that had to do with me. When he was nasty, I wasn't around for it. I had my boundaries and I stuck to them. I was far from him and doing my own thing when he was drunk only because the drunkiness was the first sign of his rage coming on.
That said, I was able to gleem some good moments when he was sober. We stopped argueing, we stopped scowling at each other, etc. When he made the choice to put down the booze and spend time with me, it was awkward at first but not terrible. I enjoyed the times he was friendly and helpful, but I didn't bank on them each day. I appreciated the effort and was friendly right back to him, but when he was drunk and raging a few hours later, I would have to put up my boundary and walk away without angst and upset. He was doing what alcoholics do and I had to do what those living with alcoholics have to do...detach and focus on me.
Like I said at the start, I wonder if I had gone into my own recovery sooner if those good moments could have sustained me. I do accept the disease progresses so I also accept that those good moments would have gotten fewer and farther between the way they did before I finaly separated from him.
I hope this is helpful. I do understand what it's like having to make things work until you know if leaving is right for you. I also understand what it's like to decide to leave but not just yet.
It's work, but it can work for you if you keep at it.
Blessings,
Alice
While I was living with an active alcoholic, and using the tools I gained in recovery, I have to admit I was much more at peace and happier than I had been for a while. Working on true detachment with compassion, curbing my enabling, and setting firm boundaries that I followed through on made this possible. What it also did, however, was escalate his disease and worsen his behavior. I understand now that it was his resistance to the change in me that drove this, and I had to accept the disease process, but in my heart I always wanted it to spur him to get better not worse.
Whereisthisgoing, you are making progress in your detachment, acceptance, and boundaries. It is about progress not perfection so be patient. My XABF did ask me what my problem was all the time for years. I had much the same reaction as you in which I told him what was making me unhappy and we'd argue about his drinking, how much, when, why etc.
When my recovery became more practiced, he stopped asking. I think that had to do with the fact that his drinking no longer mattered to me only his behavior. I no longer saw his stumbling in drunk as something that had to do with me. When he was nasty, I wasn't around for it. I had my boundaries and I stuck to them. I was far from him and doing my own thing when he was drunk only because the drunkiness was the first sign of his rage coming on.
That said, I was able to gleem some good moments when he was sober. We stopped argueing, we stopped scowling at each other, etc. When he made the choice to put down the booze and spend time with me, it was awkward at first but not terrible. I enjoyed the times he was friendly and helpful, but I didn't bank on them each day. I appreciated the effort and was friendly right back to him, but when he was drunk and raging a few hours later, I would have to put up my boundary and walk away without angst and upset. He was doing what alcoholics do and I had to do what those living with alcoholics have to do...detach and focus on me.
Like I said at the start, I wonder if I had gone into my own recovery sooner if those good moments could have sustained me. I do accept the disease progresses so I also accept that those good moments would have gotten fewer and farther between the way they did before I finaly separated from him.
I hope this is helpful. I do understand what it's like having to make things work until you know if leaving is right for you. I also understand what it's like to decide to leave but not just yet.
It's work, but it can work for you if you keep at it.
Blessings,
Alice
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Wizard Land Downunder
Posts: 2,615
Can't put it any better than Alice has.
Wish you the courage, strength, tolerance and humour you will need to stick around for a few years, and the same blessings for if you leave.
God bless
Wish you the courage, strength, tolerance and humour you will need to stick around for a few years, and the same blessings for if you leave.
God bless
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 127
I think I understand what you mean when you say things are better right now. That happens for me as well. There are periods of time when I actually have a normal life. Especially when they are functioning drinkers.. Maybe at a later time when you are at an advanced stage of detachment you might feel differently. I always felt like my husband was that one different drinker. Right now we are at probably the worst place we have ecer been in our relationship so that is about all the positivity I can muster right now! God luck and peace.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
