Thumper

One of the things that people kept telling me, and that really helped, was to play the tape all the way through. When I was struggling with some question, decision, or situation - what would life look like in one month, one year, etc. if I watched not just this segment, but the entire movie.

Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior.

It forced me let loose of my fantasies, hopes, confusion (which was enormous), and take a hard look at the the real situation and see where it was going to get me. I didn't like the future very much when I did that. It looked just like the place I was in and I knew I couldn't stay there. It also went a long way in getting me to look at his actions rather then all the quacking.

It was impossible for me to move forward when I was listening to what he was saying, rather then watching what he was doing.

I have this quote in front of me all day long.

"What you do speaks so loud I cannot hear what you say." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

I didn't really 'get' it at first but I read it constantly, until it was a mantra in my head. I had so much self talk (still do) that was keeping me confused and paralyzed. It helps to replace some of that, bit by bit, with something good for me. If the self talk contains the word 'should' or 'if' - not good for me.

iwantcontrol

you're very right - i do think about the future but I still see it with rose-tinted glasses and plenty of hope and wishful thinking. I need to look at reality and see that the actions are more importnat than the words. I am starting to think that the only way we can work is if he enters rehab - but he needs to decide that for himself. I know he's scared, but surely a life of drinking and being alone is scarier than sorting yourself out and having a happy 'normal' life. We definitely need to have that talk. I've had a few days away from him now and it's all sinking in - for me, I need that change to happen and it has to happen soon and quickly - none of this bit by bit improvement. From what i've read about recovery it doesn't happen gradually (i mean by drinking less each week for example), there is a sudden decision to change and put your all into it straight away and then keep going (for ever really). Correct me if I'm wrong though!

LaTeeDa

iwc,

What would happen if you booted him out of your head for a few days? If you had to think about YOU and only YOU, your life, your future, your plans, what would you think about? Because, even IF he goes to rehab, gets sober, turns into the prince charming you want him to be, you will still need to have your own life. What does that life look like for you? Is your life nothing but an adjunct to his?

(I wish someone would have asked me these questions 20 years ago. )

L

FindingPeace1

Two different husbands we have, but the same stuck space.
I do the hope thing, too.
It's good you get he needs to choose recovery for himself. The problem is, recovery is YOUR idea and YOUR hope and you and pushing it on him. (not that it's not a reasonable thing to want, but as LTD tells me constantly - because I don't listen well...it's a nice idea, it's just not appropriate to expect that of HIM.)

I keep telling myself that my H has his own path (it doesn't involve recovery, and I would warrant a guess, your H would say his doesn't involve recovery, either.)

It's this "surely..." part you said above that kills me every time. Surely he will want what I want. Surely he will see what he is doing is harmful to him and me and us. Surely he wants health. Surely he can see how this is wrecking our relationship. Surely he will give a little. Surely I should give him another chance. Surely he will come around. Surely he has it in him.
And on and on.

But it's b.s., sweetheart. Our own b.s. to ourselves.

There is no surely. There is none.

My H is not me. He doesn't see it my way. He doesn't want it any different. He doesn't want what I call growth and change (what I have outlined is the "proper" growth and change for him). He doesn't want to "come around". He doesn't want me pestering him, either.
He just wants it the way it has been.
The 'surely' keeps me trapped.
Looking at my relationship without the surely has caused me great sorrow and probably will for some time to come, but the truth hurts more than our fantasies and I realize I am afraid of hurting.
I am making space for my hurting today.

What if a life of drinking and being alone WASN'T scarier for him than change?
What if he decides NEVER to go to recovery?
What if he stays exactly as he has been till the day he dies?
How do you feel?

Hugs
Hugs

Thumper

How about trying to re-focus your hope. Re-focus your fantasy. You can do a couple of things here. You can let go. Let go of living for a vision of the future and live for today. Trust the future to take care of itself.

You can also replace that vision. Replace it with one that only includes *yourself*, not him. He might be in your future and he might not, but when you visualize your future, make it a vision of yourself, your happiness, your contentment, all on your own. What does that look like? Piece it together. Put it on paper, draw it, make it a story, whatever works but do it. Walking towards a future you can not see is like stepping off a cliff. Some people do it because the step becomes less frightening then standing there, but be kind to yourself and have a vision. Put your hope where it matters and where you can affect change. Put hope in yourself.

I found that my grieving was not over the actual loss of the relationship as much as it was for that vision I had. I was more sad about giving up my vision of 'our' future then I was of giving up the actual man. That is the grief of a person that stayed in a relationship waaaaay to long. And really, it was not a very nice thing to do to my husband either. It lacked integrity. It was playing games. The games of a codependent woman but I don't imagine that makes him feel any better then him being an alcoholic makes me feel better about the games he plays.

You don't know that and no, it isn't necessarily scarier to be alone. He has an addicted brain. At the very base of it, the very biology of how the brain works, has changed and is now different then the non-addicted brain.

ladyhawk69

Seriously, I'm going to sound rude right now, but SAVE YOURSELF SOME TIME AND RUN LIKE HELL!!! My Ex was "asked" by me to leave and moved into his ex-wife's house (that he apparently can't stand either) Then, when things were hard there, tried courting me. Well, that only worked for a short while (very short) until I wised up. I'm alone, happy and walking in MY shoes. I'm not worried about him, that's not my job. You shouldn't be concerned either. Don't get me wrong, I thought this man was the love of my life. I'd rather be single, there's more than love!! There is respect and self respect for BOTH parties involved. Especially YOU, the one who is not causing the pain. I've opted NOT to go the Alanon route because that is for families and loved ones of addicts/alcoholics. I am neither anymore, but then, I've learned to detach. Good Luck to you!

LaTeeDa

The stats I quoted yesterday I got from Hazelden. 10-15% of their patients are still clean and sober a year after treatment. This is one of the top treatment centers in the country.

If you had a 10-15% chance of keeping your job, would you come up with a plan B? If you had a 85-90% chance of losing your house, would you come up with a plan B?

Every one of us at one time believed that our A was different than all those other A's. Every one of us at one time believe that ours was one of the 10-15%. They can't all be..........or it would be 100%.

Do you have a plan B?

L

heavenlyone

The ex-girlfriend stuff is extremely suspect.

Mine told me the exact same thing - "She is bi-polar. She rings me. She just wants to talk. She is crazy. What should I do? Tell her to get lost?"

I believed all this rubbish until the day I walked up to his front door and heard him on the phone to her. He said things like "I'm coming up the to f**k you. She'll (me) will never know"

The moral of this story is to NEVER, EVER believe anything an addict is telling you!!!
Everytime he opens his mouth he is lying.
Alcoholism and cheating do tend to go together alot.

You're a good person and you deserve someone who doesn't make you feel so anxious and unhappy.

Summerpeach

IWANT: Do you have the "Courage to Change" book? It's Al Anon literature.
If you don't want to get to a meeting, it's a great book to read.
Also, there is another Al Anon web site that holds Al Anon meetings 2 x a day.

I'm VERY much like you in that I still wear the glasses of "hope" and think I can control my BF's actions, but slowly learning, I'm wearing myself out digging my way to china. I'll never get there. I just need to let him do his "thang"

Insulated

I am feeling very angry and upset today.
You're coming to terms gradually with the feelings caused by the constant state of crisis and chaos of being involved with an addict. Don't be so hard on yourself. None of us did everything 100% in the right way in engaging with an alcoholic, addict. Maybe what I did will help you. I had to look to myself and decide how committed I was to the person vs. the addiction. Although we lived together, so it's only slightly different in terms of living arrangement. You are going to make great decisions for yourself only by making those decisions in terms of serving YOUR higher self.

iwantcontrol

summerpeach - which website is it that holds those meetings? I would be interested. I dont have a copy of that book but i do have some al-anon leaflets and another al-anon book i bought from their website.

Summerpeach

at Amazon, you can get Courage to Change for less than $5. It's money well spent. I suggest you read this book


The site is

Al-Anon Family Group - Al-Anon Family Group

iwantcontrol

thanks summerpeach.

iwantcontrol

Update on things:

I spent the majority of the easter weekend with my ABF, after not seeing him all week, and we had a nice time. He was very depressed last week so he was still quite subdued and not feeling 100% but that is ok. I’m not trying to say it was perfect - he did go out for a bit and happen to run into some mates so he had a beer with them one day, and then we stopped off in a pub where he had a couple of pints on our way to my house another day - but he was happy to just have that and it was like he was a normal drinker. I didn’t make a fuss about any of it as I’m trying to detach from his drinking and just allow him to do what he chooses about it without moaning and nagging. After all, normal couples can do that.

So, then he left my house Monday afternoon to get stuff done at his, but I’m pretty sure he had been drinking when we spoke on the phone, and then this morning (before 9am) I think he is drinking again. It seems he can have a perfectly ‘normal’ weekend, then as soon as he leaves me he is drinking. I didn’t mention any of the issues from the previous week to him over the weekend (the ex-girlf thing, his depression, rehab), as it seemed like he was OK and I didn’t want to ruin the time we had together. Now I’m feeling like I should have mentioned it. I know it wouldn’t have changed his behaviour but it would have made me feel better. It sounds daft, but over the weekend when I started thinking about him going into rehab, it didn’t seem necessary – like he was OK and doesn’t need that at all. Now I can see that was just an illusion. It’s weird how things can seem fixed for a while – I fall for the illusion every time it seems.

He tells me that once he’s found a job, alcohol wont be a problem – I know that isn’t true. He might not be drinking during the day then, but he would just go to the pub or drink at home during the evening, and it would probably be every evening, and then at the weekends too because he could afford to go to the pub. I know that. It seems like he is waiting for a magic bullet to come along, but I am trying to be realistic without being too pessimistic (he accuses me of being so negative all the time, but he is negative about everything usually).

I too though am waiting for a magic bullet of sorts, and am clinging to the hope of rehab. It might not help him, but for me, I need him to have tried every option before I can give up on us. I’ve worked that out at least – that’s why I’m sticking around. I won’t give up all the time he still has methods he has yet to try, and as long as we have good times together (and no cheating/physical abuse etc). I don’t give up on things easily unless i’ve done all i can, so it makes sense that i need him to have tried everything before i can mentally leave the situation. I hope you know what i mean. I’m jsut getting impatient because I want him to try these things at my speed. I can’t wait around much longer though, and once i’ve told him that, it is up to him to decide whether he wants to try rehab/another method, or whether he wants to lose me and carry on drinking like this.

Summerpeach

I need to ask you this, why are you so hung up on his recovery when you're not even working on your recovery?

You say you need "him" to try every option before you leave. Why are you putting all the hope of recovery on him?

Staying focused on him is easy, I do get that, but you seem to be stuck on hoping he changes so it will all be better.
I felt like you did back 10 months ago, then I walked into Al Anon and realized, I'm a mess and need to help me

iwantcontrol

i do know i need to help me too, and i have been doing so. But i have nowhere else to vent all of this stuff about him as i can't talk to anyone about it. I just want to share where i'm at and what is going on as it helps me to do so, and to hear what people say about it here. I am reading literature and working on my own recovery too.

stella27

It seems to me that your recovery would consist of working on things like "needing" him to do something before you can make a decision about what's best for you.

I know you think you are just venting about him, but what you say screams so loudly about you.

Good luck.

Summerpeach

Yes, it's GREAT to vent here and share. That is healing and a good start, but you are too focused on him changing. Do you think if he stops drinking, your relationship will be better?
It won't. Once someone stops drinking, their lives become evern more unmanagable then when they drank.

Like I said, if you truly want to have a shot with him, YOU YOU YOU need to get into some sort of codie recovery program.

iwantcontrol

maybe i just can't see that sometimes. I think i'm doing ok and working on me, but maybe i'm not doing so well then. I am having lots of thoughts about how I'd be ok without him, and all the things i could fill my time with. Also, what things would be better if he wasn't around. I think that is progress.

iwantcontrol

how would his life be worse if he stopped drinking? he would be able to deal with his problems etc a lot better. When he does have times without alcohol, things are better. They wont be fixed just like that but it would be a good start. Then we can see if our relationship is worth it or not i suppose. with alcohol in the way it is hard for us both to see clearly