Holy INformation Overload! Advice realllly needed pls...
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South Africa
Posts: 330
He wants to keep you on " his side". We can also say - the addiction wants you to keep on rescuing.
After our separation I heard a lot of "new reasons". The" I need you to to save me from myself" from his side escalated to ridiculous heights as" new reasons" emerged. He is drinking. That is the problem here. Alcoholics die every day while finding new reasons why they drink.
After our separation I heard a lot of "new reasons". The" I need you to to save me from myself" from his side escalated to ridiculous heights as" new reasons" emerged. He is drinking. That is the problem here. Alcoholics die every day while finding new reasons why they drink.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 223
It doesn't matter whether it's manipulation or not. Whether his nasty behavior has a <cough, cough> legitimate basis (and childhood trauma is not an excuse for inflicting trauma on innocent others like your wife and children), or whether it's a manipulation...the behavior is the same. It's destructive.
It's wonderful that you aren't going to be sucked in, real problem or not.
It's wonderful that you aren't going to be sucked in, real problem or not.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: minneapolis, mn
Posts: 2,762
Bucyn,
I couldn't agree more.
We try so often, and so hard, to discern whether the stories are true. And while we're doing that, we forget that IT DOESN'T MATTER.
Froglegs,
I am so glad you struggled with this, and posted here. I think you really have clarity now. OF COURSE you can sympathize, of course you can care about him and his painful past. But his life is not any more important than yours, and to you, it is less so because you're supposed to take care of yourself. He's supposed to take care of himself, but if he's not, well, again, not your job.
I too, think Transform said it very well!!
I couldn't agree more.
We try so often, and so hard, to discern whether the stories are true. And while we're doing that, we forget that IT DOESN'T MATTER.
Froglegs,
I am so glad you struggled with this, and posted here. I think you really have clarity now. OF COURSE you can sympathize, of course you can care about him and his painful past. But his life is not any more important than yours, and to you, it is less so because you're supposed to take care of yourself. He's supposed to take care of himself, but if he's not, well, again, not your job.
I too, think Transform said it very well!!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 218
Oh yeah, I had a "clanger" dropped on me just as I was about to walk the first time. If it was true, then it might explain some of his behavior.
BUT.
I was new to this information - he was not. He told me about it because it was big, serious, psychological impact stuff that would have an effect on me - so he knows it's big, serious psychological impact stuff. And it's yeeeears old - so what has he done to try to address it, heal from it, recover from it? Nothing. He wheels it out as an excuse for hurting people.
Do I feel sorry if it happened to him. Absolutely? But a reason isn't an excuse. There are amazing people out there who have survived all manner of trauma and grown from it. Using trauma as an excuse to hurt people when you can make the link between the trauma and the behavior that causes you and others yet more pain is irresponsible. Staying with someone because there's a "reason" for unacceptable behavior is irresponsible - and that one's on me.
Or as I read somewhere (possibly SR) if a rabid dog is coming at you, foaming at the mouth - you don't pause to feel sorry for it and try to figure out where it contracted the disease from .... you just run like the wind.
BUT.
I was new to this information - he was not. He told me about it because it was big, serious, psychological impact stuff that would have an effect on me - so he knows it's big, serious psychological impact stuff. And it's yeeeears old - so what has he done to try to address it, heal from it, recover from it? Nothing. He wheels it out as an excuse for hurting people.
Do I feel sorry if it happened to him. Absolutely? But a reason isn't an excuse. There are amazing people out there who have survived all manner of trauma and grown from it. Using trauma as an excuse to hurt people when you can make the link between the trauma and the behavior that causes you and others yet more pain is irresponsible. Staying with someone because there's a "reason" for unacceptable behavior is irresponsible - and that one's on me.
Or as I read somewhere (possibly SR) if a rabid dog is coming at you, foaming at the mouth - you don't pause to feel sorry for it and try to figure out where it contracted the disease from .... you just run like the wind.
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
There *is* a saying in the rooms....
"How can you tell if an alcoholic is lying?"
"Their lips are moving."
If we say it about ourselves... then who would better know ... than ourselves?
I know that for me personally -
I can lie so well - *I* don't even know I'm lying.
For some of us... lying is just another art form.
I mean... it's not even sport ... for some.
And the only way *I* know to balance that....
is to be painfully honest.
I've done it for so long now,
that it's beyond me to think of lying about something.
It's far more challenging ... sporting...
... to stick to the truth.
So....
I"m throwing no stones here.
I am simply conveying my OWN truth.
(heh)
If you can believe that.
"How can you tell if an alcoholic is lying?"
"Their lips are moving."
If we say it about ourselves... then who would better know ... than ourselves?
I know that for me personally -
I can lie so well - *I* don't even know I'm lying.
For some of us... lying is just another art form.
I mean... it's not even sport ... for some.
And the only way *I* know to balance that....
is to be painfully honest.
I've done it for so long now,
that it's beyond me to think of lying about something.
It's far more challenging ... sporting...
... to stick to the truth.
So....
I"m throwing no stones here.
I am simply conveying my OWN truth.
(heh)
If you can believe that.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 566
Wow wow wow. Thanks for posting froglegs, and everyone else. I feel like I've just taken a course in knowing what to expect in my not-too-distant-future. In fact, it's also a part of my not-too-distant past.
Shaking my head once again. Y'all are so GOOD at calling it what it is! When I read your words my inner self is saying "Yup!" and "Oh yeah, I knew that!"
Hang in there froglegs. You can do this, you can be there for yourself like you're there for others. It's my profession to be supportive and helpful to others, too, and I'm learning how to be there for ME.
Cheering you on in your divorce process, and in your ability to let him figure it out for himself.
Hugs,
posie
Shaking my head once again. Y'all are so GOOD at calling it what it is! When I read your words my inner self is saying "Yup!" and "Oh yeah, I knew that!"
Hang in there froglegs. You can do this, you can be there for yourself like you're there for others. It's my profession to be supportive and helpful to others, too, and I'm learning how to be there for ME.
Cheering you on in your divorce process, and in your ability to let him figure it out for himself.
Hugs,
posie
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 218
One other thought Froglegs - and this came to me months after my A was out of my life.
Getting sober is hard and staying sober in the long term means taking a long look at all your overhead baggage. I'm coming up on five years and have only recently found my way to alanon - which is a whole new ball of wax. I have issues that I didn't even realize were issues and it has taken me this long, sober, to start to get to drips with them.
If (and I mean if, because if my ex hasn't hit bottom at this point I don't know what else he'll have to lose to get there) he gets sober - he will have serious work and healing to do to address the wreckage he amassed while he was using.
The other stuff, the bombshell stuff, would be its own long, hard healing journey even without the alcoholism. There is no guarantee he will ever embark on recovery from either, let alone both. That's heartbreaking. But boy am I glad that I'm not waiting around in the hope that he gets there.
Getting sober is hard and staying sober in the long term means taking a long look at all your overhead baggage. I'm coming up on five years and have only recently found my way to alanon - which is a whole new ball of wax. I have issues that I didn't even realize were issues and it has taken me this long, sober, to start to get to drips with them.
If (and I mean if, because if my ex hasn't hit bottom at this point I don't know what else he'll have to lose to get there) he gets sober - he will have serious work and healing to do to address the wreckage he amassed while he was using.
The other stuff, the bombshell stuff, would be its own long, hard healing journey even without the alcoholism. There is no guarantee he will ever embark on recovery from either, let alone both. That's heartbreaking. But boy am I glad that I'm not waiting around in the hope that he gets there.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Wizard Land Downunder
Posts: 2,615
My XAH had a very hard, unemotional, British stiff upper lip childhood, then the war years in London and 4 years with the army in Palestine, with murder and mayhem all round. He used that as where he learnt to drink hard, (but was not alcoholic).
My RABF did have a terrible childhood and from 6 years old was in and out of homes til his mum died, and dad sobered up long enough to get his kids back, add the stepmum from hell and dad's alkie genes and kaboom.
I told him that whilst I was sorry he had such a rotten time, and had suffered in the past..I did not see that it meant I HAD TO SUFFER FOR IT NOW.
If he handled his pain by drinking and being repulsive and violent...so be it...but not around me thanks. If you want misery, go and be miserable on your own.
No-one's bad, traumatic or horrible past is an excuse to make another person's life a total misery.
If he wants to seek professional help and clear things for himself that is fine, but you do not put your life on hold whatever he decides to do.
God bless
As for you Transform, this for you....after I cleaned up the mess twice and finally got to drink my coffee.
My RABF did have a terrible childhood and from 6 years old was in and out of homes til his mum died, and dad sobered up long enough to get his kids back, add the stepmum from hell and dad's alkie genes and kaboom.
I told him that whilst I was sorry he had such a rotten time, and had suffered in the past..I did not see that it meant I HAD TO SUFFER FOR IT NOW.
If he handled his pain by drinking and being repulsive and violent...so be it...but not around me thanks. If you want misery, go and be miserable on your own.
No-one's bad, traumatic or horrible past is an excuse to make another person's life a total misery.
If he wants to seek professional help and clear things for himself that is fine, but you do not put your life on hold whatever he decides to do.
God bless
As for you Transform, this for you....after I cleaned up the mess twice and finally got to drink my coffee.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Somewhere in the big ole' world....
Posts: 545
Jadmack:
You should provide paper towels for us to clean up our screens...that picture was brilliant.............Thanks for making me smile yet again. Often, with all of our troubles, we definitely do not laugh enough. That's a great healing tool on this journey.
My ABF (in full dry drunk mode now) had a bad upbringing an an alcoholic family and has no doubt suffered the consequences through his life and is still suffering the fallout. But, he does not see it, feels he can handle it all, has shunned AA, on and on and on. Instead, he lays a lot of blame on me, tells me "I need work", he walks on eggshells around me because of MY anger, well, you know the drill.
At the moment, I am not sure if it's relapse behaviour or full relapse, but after a teary, weepy conversation the other night regarding a test he had to do for work - how he blew it because his memory is shot (quelle surprise from 30+ years of drinking), how no one else in the world gets stressed out at tests...quack, quack, quack.........long story short, I cut the conversation short and never heard from him till yesterday morning - again, until I can confirm, he sounded like he was in full blown relapse, judging by past experience on my end. Again, argumentative, etc and I hung up again, doing my own thing which included talking to some AL-Anon friends, reading literature and to be honest, feel a lot less stressed this time.
When I came for my first of many daily visits to SR, I saw this gem from you, Jadmack and I want to thank you so much-it's your ESH that I needed to hear.
This really, really, really put things into perspective for me - I have copied and pasted this, printed it out and it sits facing me square in the face in front of my computer.
Hugs to you :ghug3 and here's hoping you're back on track after the cyclone......
You should provide paper towels for us to clean up our screens...that picture was brilliant.............Thanks for making me smile yet again. Often, with all of our troubles, we definitely do not laugh enough. That's a great healing tool on this journey.
My ABF (in full dry drunk mode now) had a bad upbringing an an alcoholic family and has no doubt suffered the consequences through his life and is still suffering the fallout. But, he does not see it, feels he can handle it all, has shunned AA, on and on and on. Instead, he lays a lot of blame on me, tells me "I need work", he walks on eggshells around me because of MY anger, well, you know the drill.
At the moment, I am not sure if it's relapse behaviour or full relapse, but after a teary, weepy conversation the other night regarding a test he had to do for work - how he blew it because his memory is shot (quelle surprise from 30+ years of drinking), how no one else in the world gets stressed out at tests...quack, quack, quack.........long story short, I cut the conversation short and never heard from him till yesterday morning - again, until I can confirm, he sounded like he was in full blown relapse, judging by past experience on my end. Again, argumentative, etc and I hung up again, doing my own thing which included talking to some AL-Anon friends, reading literature and to be honest, feel a lot less stressed this time.
When I came for my first of many daily visits to SR, I saw this gem from you, Jadmack and I want to thank you so much-it's your ESH that I needed to hear.
I told him that whilst I was sorry he had such a rotten time, and had suffered in the past..I did not see that it meant I HAD TO SUFFER FOR IT NOW.
If he handled his pain by drinking and being repulsive and violent...so be it...but not around me thanks. If you want misery, go and be miserable on your own.
No-one's bad, traumatic or horrible past is an excuse to make another person's life a total misery.
If he wants to seek professional help and clear things for himself that is fine, but you do not put your life on hold whatever he decides to do.
If he handled his pain by drinking and being repulsive and violent...so be it...but not around me thanks. If you want misery, go and be miserable on your own.
No-one's bad, traumatic or horrible past is an excuse to make another person's life a total misery.
If he wants to seek professional help and clear things for himself that is fine, but you do not put your life on hold whatever he decides to do.
This really, really, really put things into perspective for me - I have copied and pasted this, printed it out and it sits facing me square in the face in front of my computer.
Hugs to you :ghug3 and here's hoping you're back on track after the cyclone......
Finding Truth Within
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 54
Originally Posted by transformyself 
Wow. You'd think that after awhile I'd not be stunned speechless when others come here and post my story. Guess it's some sort of denial.
When my STBXAH told me his "shocking news," I was mortified. I know it's true, what he told me.
The end result, however, is that it doesn't matter. I don't care if he was kidnapped by one legged pirate midget wrestlers as a child and forced to eat goldfish live. He's not the man for me. When I focus on what I want, when I envision the life I deserve, it doesn't include him.
And that's the trick now isn't it? Getting back on my feet, standing on solid, sweet Earth and looking myself in the face and asking, "Well? What's your story?"
When my STBXAH told me his "shocking news," I was mortified. I know it's true, what he told me.
The end result, however, is that it doesn't matter. I don't care if he was kidnapped by one legged pirate midget wrestlers as a child and forced to eat goldfish live. He's not the man for me. When I focus on what I want, when I envision the life I deserve, it doesn't include him.
And that's the trick now isn't it? Getting back on my feet, standing on solid, sweet Earth and looking myself in the face and asking, "Well? What's your story?"
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