Codependent No More - Book Study: Chapter 5 - Detachment

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Old 03-15-2010, 05:32 PM
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Arrow Codependent No More - Book Study: Chapter 5 - Detachment

Session 1:Introduction Forward Discussion
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...iscussion.html

Chapter 1- Jessica's Story Discussion
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...iscussion.html


Chapter 2- Other Stories Discussion
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...iscussion.html

Chapter 3 - Codependency
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ependency.html

Chapter 4 - Codependent Charachteristics
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post2540392

Codependent No More:

How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself


By Melodie Beattie


Book Study
CHAPTER 5 - Detachment


Chapter 6 Will go Up Wendsday Evening
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Old 03-15-2010, 05:32 PM
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"It (detachment) is not detaching from the person whom we care about, but from the agony of involvement" - Al-Anon Member

So begins Chapter 5 - Detachment

Melonie explains that is is the goal for most recovery programs for codependents. We can't begin to work on ourselves and feel our own feelings when obesssed with someone else.

First when looking at attachment: "When a codependent person says "I am getting attached to you" Look out! They probably mean it. Attachment to us typically means entanglement. It doesn't end up very pretty. We get over involved which leads to chaos. We endlessly worry and obsess.We lose control of ourselves. We have all listened to someone obsesssed over something or someone. They endlessly talk about it/them, tirelessly. This is what we end up doing. Weather vocally or in our heads. Melonie does a great job putting who I am on paper!

She goes on to explain that in therapy when she would ask us codependents what we are feeling. We would typically answer with how we think the OTHER person is feeling. We suffer from worry and anxiety when we have uncertainty. This can be about anything: Why hasn't he called. What is he doing? etc... We feel it's our job many times because we think this is HOW we need to handle this person/situation.

So, this brings us to detachment. Melonie explains that we need to release these holds, with love. We need to get out of our entanglements and away from the problems or issues we cannot solve. We can't worry other peoples problems to get fixed either. We need to live in the moment allowing life to happen without the need to control all of it. Detachment involves accepting reality in FACTS. Detahment teaches us to love healthy. Without chaos. This is how we will gain serenity and peace. So, she asks, "How do we start"?

Melanie mentions how Alanon uses a HOW method:

Honesty
Openess
Willingness (to try)

She will get into more methods in the next chapters. Basically she explains that she believes it to be a learned behavior from habitual response. Just as habitual response was how we honed our dependent ways. Detaching with love is best. But, if no other way, it is best to detach even in anger. For being attached the way we are leads us into turmoil and keeps us stuck.

We need to strive for detachment

Activities (paraphrased):

1.) Is there a problem or person in your life that you are excessively worried about? Write about the situation and person. Then write about YOUR feelings and YOUR thoughts

2.) How do you feel about detaching from that person or problem? How has staying attached - Obsessing/worrying/trying to control helped?

3.) If the problem or person wasn't there - What would you be doing with your life instead? Envision God (or your higher power) taking this issue away from you. Visualize his hands (or it's power) holding that person and willing to take over the problem. Now visualizing his hands (or it's power) holding you. All is well and as it should be - Better than you could ever think.


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Old 03-15-2010, 05:45 PM
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So, I'm all a mess because I'm doing this right NOW. I've got tears in my eyes because someone I care deeply about is in a depression and I feel completely responsible. I am to an extent, of bringing it to this surface in this situation. So, this person is rightfully detaching and all I want is to "make it all better" to have some sense in controlling it. So, these activities are going to hit home in a big way.
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Old 03-15-2010, 06:30 PM
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Obsession - I know this well. I used to think that it was because I "loved" so much, so deeply. I've done things in my past to make Miss Havisham look sane. Now I've come to believe a large part of this is habit, to the point that I had trained my brain to be obsessive. So now I'm working on the reprogramming part - redirecting my thoughts if I get to churning over an issue.

Yes, I still devote time to these worries, but far less than before and I will actively distract myself by doing something else.
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Old 03-15-2010, 06:36 PM
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"I used to think that it was because I "loved" so much, so deeply."

Yep, even now when I get too far gone, that "low self-esteem" song by Offspring plays in my head the one line:

"The more you suffer, the more it shows you really care" <-- Meant kinda sarcastically.
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Old 03-15-2010, 07:41 PM
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1.) Is there a problem or person in your life that you are excessively worried about? Write about the situation and person. Then write about YOUR feelings and YOUR thoughts

2.) How do you feel about detaching from that person or problem? How has staying attached - Obsessing/worrying/trying to control helped?

This one really hits home with me. And I was actually reading this chapter today without even thinking of this thread series.

My gf's been working her program after a dry relapse and, just as she was getting started with a new sponsor, her mom has been diagnosed with cancer and has only 6 months to live. I'm worried about my gf and how she's going to handle the whole thing. If it's going to affect her sobriety, so soon after getting back into her program.

I know, intellectually, that there's nothing I can do but I've been caught up in the worrying cycle. I try to detach, to let go and let God take care of it, but it's hard. I want to be supportive. I'm having trouble finding that elusive (at least to codie me) difference between caring and taking care of.

I feel that God is in control of the situation and is capable of taking care of her and of me. I just want to give him a hand. I'm still learning.
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Old 03-15-2010, 07:49 PM
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"The more you suffer, the more it shows you really care" <-- Meant kinda sarcastically.
Oh, oh my. Yes, and I laugh at it, but that is because I know it's dumb, but I feel it's true.
After they say that, they say
Yeah! Right!

How is it that alternative rock speaks so much to this 50 year old woman?
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Old 03-15-2010, 07:57 PM
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^
Ha ha!!
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Old 03-16-2010, 05:16 AM
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Activity #1 -Is there a problem or person in your life that you are excessively worried about? Write about the situation and person. Then write about YOUR feelings and YOUR thoughts.

Ugh, I need to write out my "situation". Perfect timing I suppose.

Part A: The Person/Problem
11 Years ago, I met Mr. Big (Minds out of the gutter, think sex and the city). Mr. Big explained early on that he did not wish to have a relationship with anyone. He enjoyed his time alone. Couldn't envision a wife let alone kids. He was 32. I was 26. We dated for a while and he let me go. Repeat cycle. He knew I'd want a family. I didn't care, I would give up anything for Mr. Big. He let me go out of love. Never disapearing completely. I then spent my time looking for his clone. Seriously, I found his younger "twin" in Canada - Flew there to spend a month with this poor guy. Anyway, Mr. Big was right. I wanted a family. So, I married nobody like him. I married what a drunk would marry - Another drunk. I was married 9 years. All the while, I'd hear from Mr. Big about once a month. I was a dedicated wife so often I'd go months without responding to Mr. Big, who was always a loyal friend. He genuinly wanted me to be happy and wanted updates on my life. We were never inappropriate in communications since my marriage (except ONCE a year ago we did some harmless flirting).

Fast foward, The DAY I decided to leave my husband, I replied to the last email Mr. Big sent to give him my sorrid life update. His response was loving and kind. He really hoped that my husband would see what he was giving up and get it together for the kids and I. However, I wanted Mr. Big. As I never really got over him. In the span of a week I pulled out ALL the stops. The B.O.B. we talked about in the other thread? I asked HIM to order one for me! I was relentless in my persuit, in hindsight. Anyway, he was the one who bought me my first B.O.B 10 years ago. So, I was just asking for an early birthday present.

As it turns out, Mr. Big never quite got over me either. In a week, I convinced him (easily, but I had to CONVINCE). to purchase a plane ticket to fly me out there (California). I spent a wonderful weekend with him. Remember, I hadn't had sex in 2 1/2 years. I was also sober and completely different mentally, physically and somewhat emotionally. It was like losing my virginity over again. Along with the emotions that followed. Upon my return, Mr. Big sent me an email explaining that it was a wonderful weekend but that he didn't really see a future. He was being honest, he had real feelings and he was just letting me know that he can't handle a relationship and the emotions that go with one. I knew all this!! As he's not cut out for relationships. So, what does a CODIE do with that? SHE over reacts!! Because SHE convinced herself that a weekend would just be fun. When that was a big LIE. I lashed out at Mr. Big, told him he was living his life in FEAR. Blah, blah,.

So, of course Mr. Big retreated from this wild irrational finger pointing woman. My apologies were met with something worse. He was full of guilt. I could tell it was eating him up. He admitted to sadness and regret. He's now convinced he not good for anyone. He feels terrible about hurting me. Meanwhile, I'm sitting here knowing he's in a state of utter depression and I set the wheel rolling on that. If I had been a little more sensitive, if only I had thicker skin. He wouldn't be hurting. I'm literally howling inside. I can hear my own howling - thinking of how badly he feels. He's ultra sensitive. I feel I've ruined him for myself and anyone else. I'm scared that he doesn't understand that we went too far this time. Too deep and he will not get over it, that we both will never be the same. Not after this reunion. He begged me to stop contacting him. So, I am. day 4 now and I feel llike I'm dying inside.

Part B: My Feelings:
So, all my emotions are about HIM. His depression that I can feel over 3,000 miles away. I can't contact him to try and make it better. I'm tossing him over, and over, and over, in my head. Trying to think of ALL the things I can say when I can contact him to ease his pain. To tell him he did not hurt me and that I'll always be totally devoted to him. That I can make it all better if he'll just give me a chance.

All I know about my emotions is helplessness. I feel actual physical chest pains. I wake up crying. I cry (shed silent tears) throughout the day. I'm entangled. I'm a mess.
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Old 03-16-2010, 05:56 AM
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Activity #2: How do you feel about detaching from that person or problem? How has staying attached - Obsessing/worrying/trying to control helped?

I don't want to detach! I'm convinced he'll never be the same and that I've ruined him. That I'll never be the same. That the whole thing is nothing short of tragic. That I'll remain single and available to him when he gets lonely. Because, I never want him to feel lonely. That's it's unessisary because I do love him.

But, I *know* that none of this will do either of us any good. That it is good he's ended contact for now. The thing is, I know he'll come back - To contact. That He'll want to be friends. That sooner or later I can convince him to see me again. That I'll obsess until then. totally ITRRATIONAL. However, self-knowledge isn't enough. I think it will take this entire book to get me through this one episode.
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Old 03-16-2010, 06:08 AM
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I will add:

If it wasn't for all of you introducing the word codependent to me a month ago: I'd be WRECKED. At least I *know* there's a way out and that I'm not alone. I feel like the codie poster child.
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Old 03-16-2010, 06:34 AM
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<don't mind me I'm just talking to myself: blab, blab>

On top of ALL this. I have the stomache flu!!

<okay, done being a thread hog>
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Old 03-16-2010, 06:50 AM
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Oh, Alzerin, I'm sorry for your pain. I have to say that when I read your posts what came to mind is that Mr. Big needs to be where he is (I know you KNOW that) so that he can sit with his relationship decisions, which, as you know, have nothing to do with you. He has decided he doesn't want to "do" romantic long-term relationships, right?

You wrote, "someone I care deeply about is in a depression and I feel completely responsible. I am to an extent, of bringing it to this surface in this situation"

Are you really responsible? As I sit over here I'm thinking how we are responsible for our reactions, and perhaps in your case not catching yourself as you were headed for the waterfall of emotion when you were gearing up to spend a wonderful weekend with him, knowing that he doesn't want a relationship, and your handling of your own feelings.

But responsible for his depression? Why? I don't think you could possibly be responsible for that, other than recognizing that you hurt his feelings with your reaction, which was about YOU. He can detach from that or not, but it sounds like he's asking for time to do just that.

Of course you're upset, hurting, missing him, etc. Be careful of taking on more than what's yours...

(If only I could do that in my own situation, too...difficult stuff!!)

Thanks for sharing your story, Al.
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Old 03-16-2010, 06:51 AM
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PS: Sorry you have the flu! Yucky! Feel better soon.
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Old 03-16-2010, 06:54 AM
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Thanks you.

"but it sounds like he's asking for time to do just that".

Yep. Hard as heck - Because I don't want him to detach, but I know he has too. SELFISH. It's all about me. This actually helps immensly to write it out.
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Old 03-16-2010, 07:48 AM
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Activity #3: If the problem or person wasn't there - What would you be doing with your life instead? Envision God (or your higher power) taking this issue away from you. Visualize his hands (or it's power) holding that person and willing to take over the problem. Now visualizing his hands (or it's power) holding you. All is well and as it should be - Better than you could ever think.

Okay what's weird about this. I would NOT be here. If I hadn't had him to latch onto AND have it in the back of my mind that I'm sick and this was gonna end badly... I would NOT be here. I would have latched onto some guy in AA and lieed myself "happy" - falsely. Or worse, I'd still be beating the dead horse that is my marriage.

I'm giving it up to my higher power. I can do nothing but continue to suffer. My higher power talks to me through people - So, I know I'm working through it now. That I will not take ANY actions without getting insights from all of you. I surrender. I know nothing other than I need to listen. When all is done, I know I'll be a stronger woman. That I will be able to love properly and deeply one day.
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Old 03-16-2010, 08:27 AM
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This is a great topic for me today as I need to really practice this.

1.
I am *still* obsessing over my ex abf (or my aexbf! whichever is the right way to refer to him). I had a dream about him a few nights back but it wasn't about him -- it was about the lack of him -- which was our entire relationship. He was never present, never there, he would be around for a week or two and then he'd take off and go somewhere else or we'd break up or he'd pick up with someone else (I suspect). It was such a hurtful lack of attachment and thinking about it just keeps me hooked. He was not there and never will be.

I have days where I obsess over this relationship that never really was. So many people stepped in to intervene because it was so unhealthy. It's better it's over. And yet, I cannot detach. We are not talking, but I get stuck on him in my mind. It's almost like an OCD thing.

I know this will go away in a few days and I have a day planned but I am really distracted. It is an effort to really focus my attention where it needs to be -- my career, and making a life for myself.

2. The days when I really detach feel great, I really want this for myself. If I find myself going several days without thinking about him very much, I'm really happy about that. But that usually only happens when I've found myself with someone else. Work is a frustration for me because I do need a better career but I won't get there unless I can devote myself to it 100%. It's a catch 22. But the idea of being able to detach seems wonderful to me and I look forward to being able to do that.

3. It was never about God taking care of him, for me this has always been about God taking care of me. I have a chronic sense of abandonment that is only alleviated when I find someone to attach to. I hope that I can find relief from that feeling by turning to my higher power and trusting that there is a purpose for me other than to mourn these relationships one after another.

One thing I am realizing is that I am not healthy enough to be in another relationship. I had started a new one and my fears are beginning to take over. I don't think he is right for me, and I need to face that. If and when I do find someone, it needs to be someone who does not fit the mold of the abandoner that I've found over and over again in my life. He is a recovering alcoholic, but he is an alcoholic. He will be prone to ego trips at my expense and affairs. It's a disaster waiting to happen. I need to let this one go.
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Old 03-16-2010, 08:32 AM
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"I have days where I obsess over this relationship that never really was."

Yep <raises hand> <gives hug>
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Old 03-16-2010, 08:52 AM
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Here, too. I can build "something" out of nothing in no time flat. Therapist called it castle-building.
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Old 03-16-2010, 11:11 AM
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Amen Posieperson!
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