AXBF was angry that I didn't care if he drank- why?
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AXBF was angry that I didn't care if he drank- why?
Please someone, or everyone, explain to me why it angered my AXBF so much that I didn’t care if he drank or not.
I only cared about how he acted. If he treated me (or others) badly, or was dangerous, volatile, mean and insulting, I didn’t want to be with him. When it was clear (after two “second chances”) that he chronically lied to me, chased other women, had a tripwire temper, was snarky and insulting to me and others, was a dangerous driver, and twisted things when we talked, I left.
(As his daughter in law asked me...) Was he drinking? I didn’t know and didn’t care. And that infuriated him! And his kids. All is kids cared about whether he waas drinking.
I got this feeling that he thought I was supposed to give him extra grace or some kind of “get out of jail free” card because he is an alcoholic, or that his drinking was supposed to be a big concern of mine. But his behavor? Beside the point BECAUSE he is an alcoholic, or special, or not subject to normal standards, much less my personal standards of what i want in a partner. But to me it was the only point- how does he act.
I have two kids with genetic disabilities and neither of them have ever gotten a "pass" on behavior. I haven't gotten a "pass" either.
Help! I don’t get it!!! I REALLY don't want to have missed an important lesson from that relationship, and this is the one thing I really don't get.
I only cared about how he acted. If he treated me (or others) badly, or was dangerous, volatile, mean and insulting, I didn’t want to be with him. When it was clear (after two “second chances”) that he chronically lied to me, chased other women, had a tripwire temper, was snarky and insulting to me and others, was a dangerous driver, and twisted things when we talked, I left.
(As his daughter in law asked me...) Was he drinking? I didn’t know and didn’t care. And that infuriated him! And his kids. All is kids cared about whether he waas drinking.
I got this feeling that he thought I was supposed to give him extra grace or some kind of “get out of jail free” card because he is an alcoholic, or that his drinking was supposed to be a big concern of mine. But his behavor? Beside the point BECAUSE he is an alcoholic, or special, or not subject to normal standards, much less my personal standards of what i want in a partner. But to me it was the only point- how does he act.
I have two kids with genetic disabilities and neither of them have ever gotten a "pass" on behavior. I haven't gotten a "pass" either.
Help! I don’t get it!!! I REALLY don't want to have missed an important lesson from that relationship, and this is the one thing I really don't get.
I Love Who I Am
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,210
I'm so sorry. When I try to sort out why my AH does what he does, it makes me crazy too. I don't have any other answer, but the others will be along soon.
Try to get some rest and let it go. You did the right thing for your family.
Try to get some rest and let it go. You did the right thing for your family.
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Southern Ontario
Posts: 109
Maybe because if you don't/didn't care that he was drinking then he would have to take responsibilty for it himself. Prehaps he wanted attention, maybe he knew his drinking was out of control and wanted someone to do all the hard work for him.
Hard to say for sure.
Hard to say for sure.
Curled up in a good book...
Join Date: Mar 2008
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XAH decided that because I no longer cared if he was drinking then I no longer cared full stop. Just another way to try and get drama and justification for drinking from me.
Maybe its time to take your detachment one step further - lets not care whether he cares if you care if he's drinking or not!
Maybe its time to take your detachment one step further - lets not care whether he cares if you care if he's drinking or not!
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
Did you ask HIM why? If so, what did HE say was the reason that angered him?
Perhaps it was because this:
is who he IS, and the alcoholism serves for him as an excuse. Just like your gut tells you ("I got this feeling that he thought I was supposed to give him extra grace..."). You sound to me like a pretty smart woman.
Perhaps it was because this:
he chronically lied to me, chased other women, had a tripwire temper, was snarky and insulting to me and others, was a dangerous driver, and twisted things when we talked
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One of the things I know is that if I didn't like someone's behaviour before we seperated, I am unlikely to like it afterwards, when they are hurt and angry and going through their own process of seperating from me, coming to terms with it and building a psychological defence.
As you say, the reasons/excuses behind his unacceptable behaviour within the relationship are irrelevent. Why are they of interest to you now that you have left? Sometimes for me (and I can only say this with a lot of hindsight and distance from that particular relationship, I would have denied it flatly if it had been said at the time) picking over someone's feelings, thinking, reasons and motives is a way of me perpetuating a relationship with them: a one-sided, imaginary relationship, but one that I experience to fill the void that an abrupt physical and emotional seperation has left within me.
thanks for posting this today, I have just had an "aha" moment about some of my own behaviour.
I have edited the sentence below, which I originally framed as a question to you, as a rhetorical question to myself, which is frankly what it was, triggered by your situation.
Realistically what did I expect? that he would thank me, recognise his flaws and change? or simply shake me by the hand and wish me well on my journey through life?
As you say, the reasons/excuses behind his unacceptable behaviour within the relationship are irrelevent. Why are they of interest to you now that you have left? Sometimes for me (and I can only say this with a lot of hindsight and distance from that particular relationship, I would have denied it flatly if it had been said at the time) picking over someone's feelings, thinking, reasons and motives is a way of me perpetuating a relationship with them: a one-sided, imaginary relationship, but one that I experience to fill the void that an abrupt physical and emotional seperation has left within me.
thanks for posting this today, I have just had an "aha" moment about some of my own behaviour.
I have edited the sentence below, which I originally framed as a question to you, as a rhetorical question to myself, which is frankly what it was, triggered by your situation.
Realistically what did I expect? that he would thank me, recognise his flaws and change? or simply shake me by the hand and wish me well on my journey through life?
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IMO, your AXBF is angry with your change in behaviour because you are not fulfilling the role he scripted for you: that of doting/overly concerned partner. My XAH also reacted with anger when I started not to care about his drinking...he equated it with my not caring about him at all. In retrospect he was right...I stopped loving him after too much abuse and neglect, but his reaction to my not caring about his drinking was just too funny...
"Oh, so you DON'T care whether I drink or not, do you?! Well, FINE, I'll just go have myself another beer!"
"Oh, so you DON'T care whether I drink or not, do you?! Well, FINE, I'll just go have myself another beer!"
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Join Date: Feb 2010
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lol. And therein sums up alcoholic logic, nodaybut2day.
Sounds typical enough behaviour - many of them simply don't care if they're right or wrong, the flip-flop behavior is there to do one thing and one thing only - get us all back in line as enablers and to continue to support them in their lifestyle.
The minute they can get you on the defensive about anything, they got you. That's why I only keep conversations curt and to the point, and I filter out any other jargon and/or nonsense, lest I get sucked back into the bs.
The justification for some of the stuff they pull is mind boggling sometimes. Mine heaved a full bottle of Olive oil at me because I was 'getting on her case about drinking'. Never mind feeling ashamed of heaving a bottle at someone, it was still all about me nagging and therefore justified behaviour. Mine still justifies that incident. Which tells me nothing has changed.
Indeed, if you are wondering if your exASpouse is still a mess, just scratch them a little about their drinking. Mine turns almost demonic in her behaviour, I.e. she is still in the grasp of the addiction.
If drinking was not a problem these insane reactions and the insane behaviour wouldn't be occuring.
Sounds typical enough behaviour - many of them simply don't care if they're right or wrong, the flip-flop behavior is there to do one thing and one thing only - get us all back in line as enablers and to continue to support them in their lifestyle.
The minute they can get you on the defensive about anything, they got you. That's why I only keep conversations curt and to the point, and I filter out any other jargon and/or nonsense, lest I get sucked back into the bs.
The justification for some of the stuff they pull is mind boggling sometimes. Mine heaved a full bottle of Olive oil at me because I was 'getting on her case about drinking'. Never mind feeling ashamed of heaving a bottle at someone, it was still all about me nagging and therefore justified behaviour. Mine still justifies that incident. Which tells me nothing has changed.
Indeed, if you are wondering if your exASpouse is still a mess, just scratch them a little about their drinking. Mine turns almost demonic in her behaviour, I.e. she is still in the grasp of the addiction.
If drinking was not a problem these insane reactions and the insane behaviour wouldn't be occuring.
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
Just like you, when I sought recovery, I stopped looking at the booze as the problem and started seeing his behavior as what I couldn't live with.
XABF used booze as his excuse for acting the way he did and promises of quitting usually got me to recant threats of leaving or at least bought him a few days with less anger and nagging from me.
As soon as my interest in whether or not he drank was gone and my focus was only on how he treated me, he lost the chance to play 'I'll get sober' card. He could have never touched another drop of alcohol and I wouln't have cared and he knew it. XABF went through many moods after that point...anger, sadness, fear, etc. He floundered trying to find one of his old maneuvers that used to get me back to my old enabling self and was kinda lost.
I tried to stay compassionate over his behavior. Losing your support structure can be devastating and that is what you are, an addict's support.
Hang in there!
Alice
XABF used booze as his excuse for acting the way he did and promises of quitting usually got me to recant threats of leaving or at least bought him a few days with less anger and nagging from me.
As soon as my interest in whether or not he drank was gone and my focus was only on how he treated me, he lost the chance to play 'I'll get sober' card. He could have never touched another drop of alcohol and I wouln't have cared and he knew it. XABF went through many moods after that point...anger, sadness, fear, etc. He floundered trying to find one of his old maneuvers that used to get me back to my old enabling self and was kinda lost.
I tried to stay compassionate over his behavior. Losing your support structure can be devastating and that is what you are, an addict's support.
Hang in there!
Alice
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Location: rural west
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I didn’t care if he drank or not. I only cared about how he acted. If he treated me (or others) badly, or was dangerous, volatile, mean and insulting, I didn’t want to be with him.
That is POWER right there. Taking control of your life. WOW!
Then all the mary-go-round circles stop. Am I being treated respectfully, lovingly, and being honored? Yes or no.
It is SO easy for me to say, "But this hard thing happened or that. He's really struggling with...He only just now had his year anniversary getting diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes. He hates his job. He...blah blah blah."
And while it DOES help me have compassion for him, it can also hold me back from looking at that behavior and saying IT DOESN'T MATTER the reason for yuck behavior. That is a red herring.
Am I being treated lovingly, with respect and honor or not?
Good stuff!!
That is POWER right there. Taking control of your life. WOW!
Then all the mary-go-round circles stop. Am I being treated respectfully, lovingly, and being honored? Yes or no.
It is SO easy for me to say, "But this hard thing happened or that. He's really struggling with...He only just now had his year anniversary getting diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes. He hates his job. He...blah blah blah."
And while it DOES help me have compassion for him, it can also hold me back from looking at that behavior and saying IT DOESN'T MATTER the reason for yuck behavior. That is a red herring.
Am I being treated lovingly, with respect and honor or not?
Good stuff!!
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: new state
Posts: 137
Thanks so much!!!! It becomes so much clearer as I read your answers – and especially your questions.
Ok. So there wasn’t anything I was missing, no deeper psychological thing that I should learn. Got it.
He was angry because he didn’t want to be held accountable for his behavior. And that has nothing to do with alcohol or alcoholism. Just as I suspected. Kinda simple.
#1. So I got his number- someone SAW the whole (real) package- and wouldn’t pretend, or whatever- like do the “why” spiral, the “but I’m an alcoholic” derailment.
#2. I walked away without a fight or drama. I wouldn’t play.
I think this is why I wanted to figure this out: For myself… so, if I did something, I’m responsible for it, and the only solution is to change it. Period. “Why?” can be used as a diversion and derail me.
Tonight when I have more time, I'm going to come back and answer more. This is SO GOOD! The pieces coming together feel great.
Ok. So there wasn’t anything I was missing, no deeper psychological thing that I should learn. Got it.
He was angry because he didn’t want to be held accountable for his behavior. And that has nothing to do with alcohol or alcoholism. Just as I suspected. Kinda simple.
#1. So I got his number- someone SAW the whole (real) package- and wouldn’t pretend, or whatever- like do the “why” spiral, the “but I’m an alcoholic” derailment.
#2. I walked away without a fight or drama. I wouldn’t play.
I think this is why I wanted to figure this out: For myself… so, if I did something, I’m responsible for it, and the only solution is to change it. Period. “Why?” can be used as a diversion and derail me.
Tonight when I have more time, I'm going to come back and answer more. This is SO GOOD! The pieces coming together feel great.
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
Weird. This thread just made me realize that they even use THE DRINKING to deflect us and themselves from the sickness, from what they are doing, creating more DENIAL. To deflect the truth. Just weird.
Thanks for sharing blueblooms and everybody,
Thanks for sharing blueblooms and everybody,
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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Posts: 137
JenT, you asked why it is of interest to me why he got angry about my not caring if he drank. I can see what you’re saying about ruminating over a dead relationship, or creating a phantom relationship. I will take heed of that. We have no contact any more though so I know its dead and I am glad for it. I moved hundreds of miles away and am starting anew in a new state. I sure don’t fantasize about him. At first, I did some. I wondered what I would do if he came to my door and said he was sorry and would do this or that or blah blah, and I realized I never want to live like that with him or anyone again. I didn’t trust him, with very good reason by my code of ethics. But I don’t want to step in the same hole with anyone else, ever again.
The reason why it is of interest to me is that I’d like to understand how, or if, things are different on this issue is alcoholism or addiction is a factor. I want to learn from this relationship. He, an alcoholic who had been through rehab and went in and out of using, but claimed to be sober for months, said it did make a difference. I didn’t think it did and that really angered him, that I “didn’t get it.” So I thought
I’d ask here, where these things are discussed and lots of folks have experience. I do not want to leave that relationship without having learned something I should have. But, according to what you all have said, “No, no difference. Behavior is the bottom line regardless of alcoholism. ” It’s my choice how I want to live. (I want to add that I also learned really positive things from him too, that will also affect how I live from now on.)
Also, you asked, “what did I expect?” I expected honesty, integrity and a willingness, even eagerness, to try, to be respectful when problems arise and to make good faith efforts to create a partnership. I didn’t get that!! Lol! So, I left. Not a complete loss- I learned a lot more about myself and what is important to me. Another thing is that when I left, he said he wanted to be friends. On its face, that seemed the right and mature thing to do. But as I thought about it, I decided that I don’t want friends that act like he does, so I decided to not be friends either. It was great to realize that “I want” and “I don’t want” are up to me.
NoDay, you made me laugh. One day my ex did that, too- started to drink to “get at me.” I was amazed at the lengths he would go to get the spotlight off of his behavior. So I watched him drink and then he stopped, maybe because I wasn’t reacting- I don’t know. I think it also made him very angry that I wouldn’t get into a screaming battle or power struggle with him. Not sure. I was not very exciting. I watched him drink and rave, waiting until we could talk about this dating site thing and how it made me feel. That time never came.
Duped, I really don’t know if the drinking is the reason. AXBF said he was sober during lots of that time. Also, while we were together I met some people from his family and childhood neighborhood, and he seems to have always has some unpleasant tendencies. Not sure that the drinking caused him to be the way he is. Of course, I’ll never know now!
Alice, that sounds just like me and my AXBF! Hmmm. Glad to know.
Wife, I wondered if I was supposed to have greater sympathy or flexibility because he is an alcoholic, to tune in more to his struggling or progress, or something. I just didn’t feel that way. Over time, I cared less and less, since the nasties had accumulated and no action he took indicated that things would change or that he even thought it was his responsibility. Sometimes I worried about whether I was compassionate enough, or a cold and cruel person. But I couldn’t get to that place of damning myself for just not liking how things were. I just didn’t! So, despite what anyone thought of me, I was not staying in that mess anymore. Everyone cheered – except him and his family.
Jadmack! Lol! No kidding.
Yeah, L2L, isn’t it amazing??!!! Thing is, I can’t conclude for sure that my X used only his alcoholism to divert himself or as an excuse for his actions I think he would use pretty much any excuse to avoid being held responsible for the way he treated people, most obviously the opposite sex in general and intimate partners in particular.
It is SO MUCH easier if the standard is whether WE like how someone treats us. This feels good.
The reason why it is of interest to me is that I’d like to understand how, or if, things are different on this issue is alcoholism or addiction is a factor. I want to learn from this relationship. He, an alcoholic who had been through rehab and went in and out of using, but claimed to be sober for months, said it did make a difference. I didn’t think it did and that really angered him, that I “didn’t get it.” So I thought
I’d ask here, where these things are discussed and lots of folks have experience. I do not want to leave that relationship without having learned something I should have. But, according to what you all have said, “No, no difference. Behavior is the bottom line regardless of alcoholism. ” It’s my choice how I want to live. (I want to add that I also learned really positive things from him too, that will also affect how I live from now on.)
Also, you asked, “what did I expect?” I expected honesty, integrity and a willingness, even eagerness, to try, to be respectful when problems arise and to make good faith efforts to create a partnership. I didn’t get that!! Lol! So, I left. Not a complete loss- I learned a lot more about myself and what is important to me. Another thing is that when I left, he said he wanted to be friends. On its face, that seemed the right and mature thing to do. But as I thought about it, I decided that I don’t want friends that act like he does, so I decided to not be friends either. It was great to realize that “I want” and “I don’t want” are up to me.
NoDay, you made me laugh. One day my ex did that, too- started to drink to “get at me.” I was amazed at the lengths he would go to get the spotlight off of his behavior. So I watched him drink and then he stopped, maybe because I wasn’t reacting- I don’t know. I think it also made him very angry that I wouldn’t get into a screaming battle or power struggle with him. Not sure. I was not very exciting. I watched him drink and rave, waiting until we could talk about this dating site thing and how it made me feel. That time never came.
Duped, I really don’t know if the drinking is the reason. AXBF said he was sober during lots of that time. Also, while we were together I met some people from his family and childhood neighborhood, and he seems to have always has some unpleasant tendencies. Not sure that the drinking caused him to be the way he is. Of course, I’ll never know now!
Alice, that sounds just like me and my AXBF! Hmmm. Glad to know.
Wife, I wondered if I was supposed to have greater sympathy or flexibility because he is an alcoholic, to tune in more to his struggling or progress, or something. I just didn’t feel that way. Over time, I cared less and less, since the nasties had accumulated and no action he took indicated that things would change or that he even thought it was his responsibility. Sometimes I worried about whether I was compassionate enough, or a cold and cruel person. But I couldn’t get to that place of damning myself for just not liking how things were. I just didn’t! So, despite what anyone thought of me, I was not staying in that mess anymore. Everyone cheered – except him and his family.
Jadmack! Lol! No kidding.
Yeah, L2L, isn’t it amazing??!!! Thing is, I can’t conclude for sure that my X used only his alcoholism to divert himself or as an excuse for his actions I think he would use pretty much any excuse to avoid being held responsible for the way he treated people, most obviously the opposite sex in general and intimate partners in particular.
It is SO MUCH easier if the standard is whether WE like how someone treats us. This feels good.
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