why did I believe him?
I Love Who I Am
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K- I'm thrilled, of course, for him to finally be saying these things about her. He's protected her for so long, saying all sorts of wonderful things about her. She respects structure, takes really good care of herself, felt really bad about "what happened." Ew.
Now at least admits it wasn't a "relationship" but rather an affair and that it could only have happened with someone who thinks its ok to sleep with a married man. He's heard about and seen her actions outside of the realm of their relationship, and heard unflattering things about her from folks other than me. She's unstable, she uses people, and she'll sleep with anyone-and has.
So no, he hasn't reached that point of having worked completly through his issues. And he's still careful about the way he talks about her, but he talks about himself in very negative terms. He's horrified, finally, about the way he treated me.
That's progress. But not enough to keep me by his side, obviously. None of this matters in the larger picture of what works for me.
Now at least admits it wasn't a "relationship" but rather an affair and that it could only have happened with someone who thinks its ok to sleep with a married man. He's heard about and seen her actions outside of the realm of their relationship, and heard unflattering things about her from folks other than me. She's unstable, she uses people, and she'll sleep with anyone-and has.
So no, he hasn't reached that point of having worked completly through his issues. And he's still careful about the way he talks about her, but he talks about himself in very negative terms. He's horrified, finally, about the way he treated me.
That's progress. But not enough to keep me by his side, obviously. None of this matters in the larger picture of what works for me.
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Please don't take this the wrong way, but perhaps you'd like to see it as progress on his part because you like to hear the negative things he says about her?
I have been cheated on and hearing the negative things about the OW was so much easier and gave me gratification. I was able to see her as a mistake rather than a threat. But I have come to realize that that him talking negatively about her said more about his character than about her and their relationship.
To me, that's not progress on his part. I read it as him using her supposedly bad character to flip this thing in his favor. Does it really matter who he cheated with? Or does her character make his actions better or worse?
I see it all the time that cheaters turn around and talk trash about their affair partners as soon as they want to reconcile with their spouses and I don't think it's progress. Isn't it the same he did during the affair, only that the roles are now reversed and you are the good girl and she is the bitch?
I have been cheated on and hearing the negative things about the OW was so much easier and gave me gratification. I was able to see her as a mistake rather than a threat. But I have come to realize that that him talking negatively about her said more about his character than about her and their relationship.
Now at least admits it wasn't a "relationship" but rather an affair and that it could only have happened with someone who thinks its ok to sleep with a married man. He's heard about and seen her actions outside of the realm of their relationship, and heard unflattering things about her from folks other than me. She's unstable, she uses people, and she'll sleep with anyone-and has.
I see it all the time that cheaters turn around and talk trash about their affair partners as soon as they want to reconcile with their spouses and I don't think it's progress. Isn't it the same he did during the affair, only that the roles are now reversed and you are the good girl and she is the bitch?
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I think the hardest thing for me with my A was the other woman. He was coming out of a relationship when we met and the ending got ugly. "She" was a crazy, shrill harridan (I never met her) and I was just perfect. When that was finally resolved (although it never was, they're still in touch) we had about two months of his being withdrawn and bingeing before suddenly, he had a new "friend." I was a crazy (harridan?) for objecting to this "friendship." He ended things and they're now together.
All those triangles! I went completely, immediately no contact after the split and I think he expected me to keep playing my part. God knows I wanted to. My therapist is amazing and pointed out that if he plays two women off against each other (or even uses the threat of infidelity) we start to think he's a "prize." We want to win. But really, a prize??!!?? This works really well to a) take the focus off his addiction b) keep women with abandonment issues revolving around his alcoholic insanity c) puff up his ego.
I can get so, so triggered thinking about the OW - still. But there is nothing to win and because I dropped out of the triangle you can bet that he's using something, or someone to make up a third already. Your AH knows that this woman is the biggest button push possible and he will keep his finger on that button, possibly indefinitely. It sucks and it hurts but it's one of the balls he has to keep in the air to feed his disease.
All those triangles! I went completely, immediately no contact after the split and I think he expected me to keep playing my part. God knows I wanted to. My therapist is amazing and pointed out that if he plays two women off against each other (or even uses the threat of infidelity) we start to think he's a "prize." We want to win. But really, a prize??!!?? This works really well to a) take the focus off his addiction b) keep women with abandonment issues revolving around his alcoholic insanity c) puff up his ego.
I can get so, so triggered thinking about the OW - still. But there is nothing to win and because I dropped out of the triangle you can bet that he's using something, or someone to make up a third already. Your AH knows that this woman is the biggest button push possible and he will keep his finger on that button, possibly indefinitely. It sucks and it hurts but it's one of the balls he has to keep in the air to feed his disease.
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Kimmeh
Nope. I don't know if I"m misrepresenting the situation or not. He's not talking trash about her in an effort to manipulate me. He manipulates me by lashing out at me and trying to make me feel bad because he feels so bad about himself. He's sinking lower and lower into self loathing and self pity.
He talks about himself mostly, wonders what was wrong with him to make him behave the way he did. And answers himself. He says things were so bad with our marriage, he was dishonrable because he should have walked away or gotten counceling, but instead he got into an affair with the only person who would sleep wtih a married man.
You see, in the past he has vehemently defended her, saying she's not a bad person. The way I see it, he has had time alone, away from me, to have communication with her and see her for what she is. That is a huge step for him. Brave in fact. He's not working me, he's working through why he behaved the way he did. I see the changes because he was holding steadfast to the belief that he "had a relationship" and was sorry it hurt me but insisted it was something special.
Now, he says, it wasn't special. It was a fantasy, based on what he wanted, not reality. And the reality of who she is (and who he is as well) is hard for him, but he's accepting it and admitting it.
We can argue all day about his motives. I know what I see and believe him.
Yes, I enjoy hearing these things about her and no I'm not in a forgiving place for her like some folks are. I hate her and think she's a piece of crap.
I also think he's a piece of crap for his actions. But at least he's walking through the details of what he did and why, whereas he refused to do that for a year.
Nope. I don't know if I"m misrepresenting the situation or not. He's not talking trash about her in an effort to manipulate me. He manipulates me by lashing out at me and trying to make me feel bad because he feels so bad about himself. He's sinking lower and lower into self loathing and self pity.
He talks about himself mostly, wonders what was wrong with him to make him behave the way he did. And answers himself. He says things were so bad with our marriage, he was dishonrable because he should have walked away or gotten counceling, but instead he got into an affair with the only person who would sleep wtih a married man.
You see, in the past he has vehemently defended her, saying she's not a bad person. The way I see it, he has had time alone, away from me, to have communication with her and see her for what she is. That is a huge step for him. Brave in fact. He's not working me, he's working through why he behaved the way he did. I see the changes because he was holding steadfast to the belief that he "had a relationship" and was sorry it hurt me but insisted it was something special.
Now, he says, it wasn't special. It was a fantasy, based on what he wanted, not reality. And the reality of who she is (and who he is as well) is hard for him, but he's accepting it and admitting it.
We can argue all day about his motives. I know what I see and believe him.
Yes, I enjoy hearing these things about her and no I'm not in a forgiving place for her like some folks are. I hate her and think she's a piece of crap.
I also think he's a piece of crap for his actions. But at least he's walking through the details of what he did and why, whereas he refused to do that for a year.
I Love Who I Am
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No contact no contact no contact no contact
Until further notice, I'm going to torture you all by coming here and barfing out my frustration and impulses to engage wtih AH. Seriously. It's one of the ways I think I'll be able to do this.
He just sent me a flurry of texts and a voicemail cause I didn't pick up good girl. He says his heart is broken and he's going to get us into counceling because he can't take this anymore and I don't respect his boundaries.
Mainly, I want to contact him to tell him what a selfish jerk he is. But that is contact, right? And we are practicing NO contact, right?
That's right Transform.
Whatever. This is so stupid. It really is like a detox. Or withdrawl or whatever they call it. I just ran into him in the store with the kids and wanted him to hug me. Then, after talking to him for a moment, I wanted to punch him.
What I really want, when I think about it, is for him to not matter to me. AGAIN!! Jesus how many times am I going to do this to myself?
Don't answer...
He just sent me a flurry of texts and a voicemail cause I didn't pick up good girl. He says his heart is broken and he's going to get us into counceling because he can't take this anymore and I don't respect his boundaries.
Mainly, I want to contact him to tell him what a selfish jerk he is. But that is contact, right? And we are practicing NO contact, right?
That's right Transform.
Whatever. This is so stupid. It really is like a detox. Or withdrawl or whatever they call it. I just ran into him in the store with the kids and wanted him to hug me. Then, after talking to him for a moment, I wanted to punch him.
What I really want, when I think about it, is for him to not matter to me. AGAIN!! Jesus how many times am I going to do this to myself?
Don't answer...
RIP Sweet Suki
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Stop reading the texts and stop listening to the voicemails. It just makes you want to respond. Turn off the phone. Do something you enjoy to take your mind off him and his childish games.
I Love Who I Am
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Ok. Here's where the rubber hits the road.
You say.
And why WOULDN'T I want to do that? Oh I'm sure you folks here, especially the mods, have seen this process a brazillian times. I WANT to engage.
Is it because I don't want to let go?
Is it because I think I'll miss something? My opportunity to be there when he "see's the light?"
Is it just habit?
It's because I feel bad about myself. I vaccilate between blaming him and blaming me. And lets not forget I'M STILL PISSED THAT HE WENT OUT AND TALKED TO HER AND REFUSES TO NOT DO THAT ANY MORE.
oh my. that's it. I want to control him. That's it. I want to control his interactions with her. I want to control what he does.
Oh that sucks. I like blaming him better.
Guess I'm right back at step 1. I'm powerless over alcohol and my life has become unmanagable. Or, as I wrote earlier, Unimagineable.
You say.
Stop reading the texts and stop listening to the voicemails. It just makes you want to respond. Turn off the phone. Do something you enjoy to take your mind off him and his childish games.
Is it because I don't want to let go?
Is it because I think I'll miss something? My opportunity to be there when he "see's the light?"
Is it just habit?
It's because I feel bad about myself. I vaccilate between blaming him and blaming me. And lets not forget I'M STILL PISSED THAT HE WENT OUT AND TALKED TO HER AND REFUSES TO NOT DO THAT ANY MORE.
oh my. that's it. I want to control him. That's it. I want to control his interactions with her. I want to control what he does.
Oh that sucks. I like blaming him better.
Guess I'm right back at step 1. I'm powerless over alcohol and my life has become unmanagable. Or, as I wrote earlier, Unimagineable.
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Transformie...I know you get defensive sometimes, but I'm going to risk that to be completely honest with you.
The main thing is...the more you interact with him, the longer this goes on. Where the rubber hits the road is when you finally realize that you can only control you, and that nothing you say to him is going to make him all of a sudden smack himself in the forehead and say "OMG! You are right! I'll never speak to her again." It just ain't gonna happen.
And, while I'm being completely honest, I'll add that I really think you're giving him too much credit. I'll caveat that by saying that we don't know him and only have what you tell us of him to go by. That having been said, I'll say that I think he is playing you. He knows what buttons to push to keep you on the line, even if you are angry with him. He knew talking about counseling would be a hook and he was right. Of course, you're going to do whatever you want to do, but I have been where you are, as have many of us here. No, we don't know your AH personally, but we know many men just like him, and when we say things you don't like to hear, we're saying them in the most gentle way possible to still get our point across. I really hope I haven't angered you, but I've been reading your story for months and I can see you making progress, then he does something or says something and it draws you back into the drama. The longer you dance, the longer he's going to pull those strings.
The main thing is...the more you interact with him, the longer this goes on. Where the rubber hits the road is when you finally realize that you can only control you, and that nothing you say to him is going to make him all of a sudden smack himself in the forehead and say "OMG! You are right! I'll never speak to her again." It just ain't gonna happen.
And, while I'm being completely honest, I'll add that I really think you're giving him too much credit. I'll caveat that by saying that we don't know him and only have what you tell us of him to go by. That having been said, I'll say that I think he is playing you. He knows what buttons to push to keep you on the line, even if you are angry with him. He knew talking about counseling would be a hook and he was right. Of course, you're going to do whatever you want to do, but I have been where you are, as have many of us here. No, we don't know your AH personally, but we know many men just like him, and when we say things you don't like to hear, we're saying them in the most gentle way possible to still get our point across. I really hope I haven't angered you, but I've been reading your story for months and I can see you making progress, then he does something or says something and it draws you back into the drama. The longer you dance, the longer he's going to pull those strings.
I Love Who I Am
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I know you're right. The more I interact with him, the more I'll interact with him. It's hard for me to see him as manipulating me. But this
is really helpful. I have started to text him about ten times tonight and keep just shutting the phone. Now I'll turn it off.
I asked you guys for help and you're graciously giving it to me. I am sorry you have to worry about me getting defensive. For some reason I dont feel that way. I just want to get to the bottom of this. I just want to feel better.
nothing you say to him is going to make him all of a sudden smack himself in the forehead and say "OMG! You are right! I'll never speak to her again." It just ain't gonna happen.
I asked you guys for help and you're graciously giving it to me. I am sorry you have to worry about me getting defensive. For some reason I dont feel that way. I just want to get to the bottom of this. I just want to feel better.
I Love Who I Am
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Ok well I changed AH's name in my phone to MORE PAIN and his ringtone to silent.
Now I'll clean the damn kitchen again, put away laundry and get thee to bed.
I have plenty of work this upcoming week to keep me busy and am sitting on a panel Saturday at a film festival.
And tomorrow I start a five day in a row yoga regimen. That oughtta shut me up.
Thanks everyone. Thanks Suki. Goodnight Grandma. Good night John Boy.
Now I'll clean the damn kitchen again, put away laundry and get thee to bed.
I have plenty of work this upcoming week to keep me busy and am sitting on a panel Saturday at a film festival.
And tomorrow I start a five day in a row yoga regimen. That oughtta shut me up.
Thanks everyone. Thanks Suki. Goodnight Grandma. Good night John Boy.
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Transform - I do get the part that you are not ready to let go. Been there so long. The fear of the unknown kept me there.
We went to couple's therapy ,but the therapist was not an addiction specialist. AH pretended to be clean. Went from alcohol to cough medicine.( Yes we can buy codeine over the counter in this country).He made all the right noises only to relapse on vodka after a while.
I started playing the tape right through and I realised that nothing changes if nothing changes. Truth be told I still have withdrawals ,but I rather only have that than having someone that lies,manipulates,get drunk in front of kids,contacts the OW even when he swears it's over.
We went to couple's therapy ,but the therapist was not an addiction specialist. AH pretended to be clean. Went from alcohol to cough medicine.( Yes we can buy codeine over the counter in this country).He made all the right noises only to relapse on vodka after a while.
I started playing the tape right through and I realised that nothing changes if nothing changes. Truth be told I still have withdrawals ,but I rather only have that than having someone that lies,manipulates,get drunk in front of kids,contacts the OW even when he swears it's over.
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I totally get wanting to engage. Unfortunately the only way to -want- to not engage is to disengage long enough that you can get some perspective. It really is like coming off a drug but it gets easier.
In the interests of honesty - this jumped out at me:
" ... things were so bad with our marriage, he was dishonrable because he should have walked away or gotten counceling, but instead he got into an affair with the only person who would sleep wtih a married man."
I know what it's like to be furious with/about the OW. But he's managing here to blame you (the marriage was so bad) and her (the kind of woman who would sleep with a married man). Neat trick - it's pseudo responsibility on his part and he's really blaming both of you for "the mess he's in."
The part about your not respecting his boundaries - well how -dare- you bring up his infidelity!! Shame on you!! Except what about the fact that he's your husband and the father of your children - and not sleeping with someone else, or bouncing between the two of you like a Keno ball, should be a given. Total double standard and also a neat trick.
Someone on here posted a Toby Rice Drews essay recently and I've been doing a lot of reading on her site. It makes sense of so many of my own feelings. Especially the laser like focus on his behavior as the relationship progressed (what now, what next?) When you're on a rollercoaster you hold on tight. But you need to stop doing that to get off the ride altogether.
In the interests of honesty - this jumped out at me:
" ... things were so bad with our marriage, he was dishonrable because he should have walked away or gotten counceling, but instead he got into an affair with the only person who would sleep wtih a married man."
I know what it's like to be furious with/about the OW. But he's managing here to blame you (the marriage was so bad) and her (the kind of woman who would sleep with a married man). Neat trick - it's pseudo responsibility on his part and he's really blaming both of you for "the mess he's in."
The part about your not respecting his boundaries - well how -dare- you bring up his infidelity!! Shame on you!! Except what about the fact that he's your husband and the father of your children - and not sleeping with someone else, or bouncing between the two of you like a Keno ball, should be a given. Total double standard and also a neat trick.
Someone on here posted a Toby Rice Drews essay recently and I've been doing a lot of reading on her site. It makes sense of so many of my own feelings. Especially the laser like focus on his behavior as the relationship progressed (what now, what next?) When you're on a rollercoaster you hold on tight. But you need to stop doing that to get off the ride altogether.
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"He says his heart is broken and he's going to get us into counceling because he can't take this anymore and I don't respect his boundaries."
"...wanted him to hug me. Then, after talking to him for a moment, I wanted to punch him."
Transform,
Trust me, I could have written those words, EXACTLY. Let me ask you this:
What is it that's holding you back from giving yourself permission to leave this relationship completely?
I get the withdrawal, and how hard it is. It has been just 4 days for me and it's gotten easier--not easy, but definitely easier. Hang in there.
"...wanted him to hug me. Then, after talking to him for a moment, I wanted to punch him."
Transform,
Trust me, I could have written those words, EXACTLY. Let me ask you this:
What is it that's holding you back from giving yourself permission to leave this relationship completely?
I get the withdrawal, and how hard it is. It has been just 4 days for me and it's gotten easier--not easy, but definitely easier. Hang in there.
I Love Who I Am
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What is it that's holding you back from giving yourself permission to leave this relationship completely?
In the meantime, no contact. I'll just do it a day, an hour at a time.
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And even if you don't say it to him, until he holds himself responsible for his own actions, no matter how uncomfortable it makes him, what relationship can there ever be? How can anyone who is not accountable or responsible be anyone's partner or father? We expect more from our children. "Grow up to be a responsible person."
My heart goes out to you. My AXBF did this too- the whole scene. It is a confusinf painful mess they create. You'll make it. Just keep tabs on facts, including that he tries to slip out of responsiblity for his actions and tries to shift it to you.
My heart goes out to you. My AXBF did this too- the whole scene. It is a confusinf painful mess they create. You'll make it. Just keep tabs on facts, including that he tries to slip out of responsiblity for his actions and tries to shift it to you.
I Love Who I Am
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Just keep tabs on facts, including that he tries to slip out of responsiblity for his actions and tries to shift it to you.
Like knowing that any contact he has with OW is very damaging to me. Re-injures and triggers me. But he won't go no contact with her and when I am upset by it, he freaks out on me.
It's like punching me in the face repeatedly and then being angry when my face swells.
My fault of course. I can't focus on him anymore. It just makes me feel horrible.
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Hey Transform.....am just catching up with the last few days posts. Nothing to add really just my love and support to the pile!
And my friend.....remember how far you have come. I have followed your story and you have come way too far to be go back. You are wise, strong and have learnt so much along the way (as I amnd many others have from you story)....you know where you want to be but sometimes its just damn hard to get there.......keep reaching ou it is in sight!
God bless you transform and keep going....one foot in front of the other. We are stepping right beside you every day. Take Care Phiz
And my friend.....remember how far you have come. I have followed your story and you have come way too far to be go back. You are wise, strong and have learnt so much along the way (as I amnd many others have from you story)....you know where you want to be but sometimes its just damn hard to get there.......keep reaching ou it is in sight!
God bless you transform and keep going....one foot in front of the other. We are stepping right beside you every day. Take Care Phiz
I Love Who I Am
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Thanks Phiz. God bless you too.
I think I wasn't clear in my last post. My AH telling me I'll never get over this, after having contact with OW and then freaking out on me when I trigger is like him punching me in the face and telling me to shut the hell up.
My choice. I know.
And here are some answers to why I'm not ready to let go of this.
I miss the good parts of our M, even though I know its hard to believe there are any. But seriously, as long as I don't have any issues with him, things are fine. We have fun, we love our kids. He's handsome and charming.
He sent me a text last night saying, I just want to have uninterrupted happiness all of the time. I think he was serious. How unrealistic. Good luck with that.
And finally, I might miss him coming around and getting better. I think that's it. I hear and see that from others here often, but at this point its magical thinking and denial of the brutal reality of how dysfunctional our relationship is.
Going to bed now. Really. Thanks for letting me process externally. And thanks for the sweet words and support from everyone.
I think I wasn't clear in my last post. My AH telling me I'll never get over this, after having contact with OW and then freaking out on me when I trigger is like him punching me in the face and telling me to shut the hell up.
My choice. I know.
And here are some answers to why I'm not ready to let go of this.
I miss the good parts of our M, even though I know its hard to believe there are any. But seriously, as long as I don't have any issues with him, things are fine. We have fun, we love our kids. He's handsome and charming.
He sent me a text last night saying, I just want to have uninterrupted happiness all of the time. I think he was serious. How unrealistic. Good luck with that.
And finally, I might miss him coming around and getting better. I think that's it. I hear and see that from others here often, but at this point its magical thinking and denial of the brutal reality of how dysfunctional our relationship is.
Going to bed now. Really. Thanks for letting me process externally. And thanks for the sweet words and support from everyone.
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