Learn2Live

Do you see anything in yourself regarding how strong your morals are? Do you see yourself as rather sensitive about morality, goodness, truth, honesty, those types of things? Do others tell you how you are "such a good person"? I ask because it seems to me, especially given that you report you had a lightning bolt sensitivity to every time these two people came into contact, that you just have a really strong sense about these things? That would be "instinct" IMO.

But at the same time do you see how this man's morals and values do not match up with your own? Here you were wanting and expecting to be in a committed relationship, am I right? And although this man may not have "cheated on" you per se, you see that he was having a continued affair with a married woman, meaning his own morals were that he did not care about the marriage vow. That is just evidence, regardless of any rationalizing or reason he may give, of his morals. In my experience, I know that this would give me a PANICKY feeling.

Your morals appear to be so strong, in contrast to his, that you CRIED for the other spouse while this jerk is shifting responsibility onto YOU.

Talk about SICK.

When we continue to allow these kinds of people into our lives, when we do not stand up for what is in our hearts to be "right" (moral) and turn our heads from the people who continue to do "wrong" (immoral), by our mere acceptance of them we validate their sick thinking, allow them to continue to believe that what they are doing is right and just, and we invite that sickness into our OWN lives. Then what do we expect to get? Happiness, love, peace and serenity? This is MY OWN lesson from the past several years of my life, courtesy of a person I have loved deep into the very core of my being since I was 13 years old, who happens to participate regularly in THE MOST immoral behavior I have ever known (but who has a good heart, go figure, or at least he is a good actor).

Whew, thanks for sharing. Get away from that guy so you can start to heal from all the sickness he brought into your life.

Learn2Live

posie please don't beat yourself up about it. you're just human. we've ALL done it, been sidetracked like this, etc.

posiesperson

Damn, L2L, you're somethin'! I actually laughed out loud at the last line of your post: "Get away from that guy so you can start to heal from all the sickness he brought into your life." I think I laughed because I'm almost giddy thinking of the possibility of being free of all of this.

You hit the nail on the head once again. Yes, I have been told "You are such a good person" but what speaks most deeply to me is when people have said, "You act with integrity." That, to me, is the most powerful complement anyone could give me. And yes, this whole affair situation, whether or not the sex happened during our "official" relationship, HAS NO INTEGRITY. My A states that it does, because I asked for honesty in the relationship, and thus, was told of the affair. I think the whole thing stinks, no matter how you slice it. I've had dreams where I'm picturing the 2 of them talking together and I'm distancing myself to escape the "bad energy"--karma, if you will.

Thanks for pointing out the disparity between what I believe and what has happened in this relationship with A's choices. Whenever I've said I've had an issue it's all about me "not seeing the gray" and "judging the situation" and "not seeing that something was healed here for both of (them)". Yucky. It's all getting clearer, helping me to strengthen that trust in my own gut, even though it's still a slippery slope for me to get into the black/white or good/bad dichotomy. But I'll admit, if that was an "okay" and rationalized affair to have (along with continued contact) I have wondered what would make it okay for me to be in the shoes of that unknowing spouse...? In fact, maybe I already have...I'll most likely never know.

Sigh. It's very sad. And yes, I think it has made me sick to some extent. Ironically, it just might also make me well as I put on my best jeans and footwear and walk to my next Alanon meeting, singing, "These boots are make for walking".

posiesperson

Off-topic:

Well I thought the lyrics of that song were, "one of these days these boots are going to walk away from you." Didn't realize it was "walk all over you". I like "walk away" better, but the rest of the song fits!

Anyway, this is the original Nancy Sinatra version if anyone is interested: YouTube - Nancy Sinatra - These Boots Are Made For Walking (1966)

Kinda entertaining.

Learn2Live

I agree.

Step 4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. I think this is what this entire thread is about.

The truth shall set you free.

posiesperson

Ahhhhh...no coincidence...just got a sponsor, and told her I want to do step 4. Let the fearless searching begin!

Learn2Live

SMART girl!!! I agree that's not a coincidence. I'm kinda' choked up reading your last post. Good for you!

MaryGoRound

[QUOTE= I didn't have 1 red flag, I had a f**cking field of them![/QUOTE]

Haha. Same here. I know how you feel, it's hard not to beat yourself up.

And Alice, I am the same way...always tryin not be the "big B"..but ya no what sure beats been' a trampled doormat! I hope to become more strong like you! I was pushed down growing up, taught that my wants were insignificant. No more!

Coffee - Your earlier post - I have been in that situation, but my xABF would use it against me. "There you go assuming..." or the best is:

"I know you don't believe me" If that's not a opening to what-i'm-about-to-say-is-a-lie, I don't know what is. And even if he was telling the truth, it's just a ploy to get me to feel bad. Pfft. Puke.


O man, so stupid I was! But they're good at this Posie! They've had to learn disfunctional ways of getting what they want. Makes me so mad!

I saw this episode of SATC the other night where Samantha wants to get even with her cheating ex and she makes flyers with his face and the words :"liar!" "cheater!" on it. And posts them all over his neighborhood. Hundreds of them. A woman cop stops her and says "you can't deface property..." and Sam says "I caught this man in bed with another woman!" and the cop nods, walks away and says " have a nice day mam".

Lol. Hopefully that doesn't hit to close to home, my X never cheated...but i would just love to do that. Grr!

I like this thread. Powerful chicks in here!

coffeedrinker

Gang:

well, I've been ruminating a bit all day - alternating between the job, kid, (therapy) session, and al-anon!

and I keep coming back to this thread. so glad I did, because I saw that I missed a few posts in the middle.

alice -- you are indeed an amazingly bright, introspective and articulate person.

learn -- ditto.

you gals have provided words for some of the things some of us (dare i say all of us?) struggle with. thank you.

my ruminating has led me to say this:
i must make the distinction between instinct or gut feeling and the other stuff my earlier post was referring to - distrusting my spouse, and jumping to a conclusion, or maybe even just making a generalization and assumption about his character.

instinct
gut feeling

it's that instantaneous ZAP that hits you before you've even had time to collect all the clues. that lightening bolt that posie mentioned that goes right through you and settles in your stomach. it's the sense that something's not right - like if you looked at someone and immediately felt something was wrong then you saw that their eyebrows were shaped differently, or something just didn't match up. it's like you can smell something almost, but before you even know there is an odor to identify, and then later you say "it's cloves" and he (cuz most in this thread are women) says "no, it's nutmeg" so convincingly that you question your nose's ability to smell.

yes, yes, there is a difference. and i'm SORRY i was discounting what you were saying. but i was just trying to be fair!
those a's out there get a bad rap so often cuz they do so much crappy, poopy, unfair, crazy-making stuff, but i know that not everything they do is wrong. they're not ALWAYS poopy. so that part in ME that tries to live a life of integrity, wants to say "innocent until proven guilty". ya know? i haven't thought this out all that well, but i hope i'm kinda communicating what i want to. if someone does something bad 20 times, but then on #21 he does something good, well, it's not right to hold court, try and convict him based on those previous 20 times. but i know that this gets me stuck in a place sometimes too.

yes, i have really learned to trust that "icky" gut feeling. the last time i did, was when i opened the bathroom door, popped my head in to say something then left. i turned right back around, knocked on the door again, and simply told abf i had "a feeling". it was the night i told him he had to leave my house.
fortunately, he did not argue. he agreed that he needs to go work on fixing what's broken in him.

but my b.s. meter still goes haywire.
but i do know, and validate, what you two girls were saying about instinct.

LaTeeDa

Every person we know has a 'balance sheet.' Nobody is ALL good or ALL bad. Including the A's we know. Heck, if they were all bad, we wouldn't struggle with our emotions. We would kick them to the curb without a second thought!

The problem I have is that I put more 'weight' on the good things. So, they do something bad 20 times and on #21 they do something good, I give that #21 just as much 'weight' as #1-20. Thereby erasing all the bad with one minuscule good. That's called settling for crumbs. And that's what I do when I am not living in reality.

L

bookwyrm

And, on the reverse, I focus on the wrong/bad things I do and weigh them much, much more than the good... So I and XAH 'fitted' together like ying and yang in my mind - and, judging by what he said to me over the years, he sees it this way too!!

Jadmack25

When I am "kicked in the guts" by

I get ready to put on my

to boot the problem out of my way.

Didn't always do this, and ignored red flags.....enough of them to fill a stadium.

Thanks for this wonderful and educational thread and replies.

God bless

MissFixit

The problem I have is that I put more 'weight' on the good things. So, they do something bad 20 times and on #21 they do something good, I give that #21 just as much 'weight' as #1-20. Thereby erasing all the bad with one minuscule good. That's called settling for crumbs. And that's what I do when I am not living in reality.

I agree with this. However, rather than thinking of myself not living in reality as I tend to be sensitive about criticism, I think of it as settling for the crumbs because that is what I have been conditioned to accept. As an adult I can choose to not accept crumbs and realize that my life and time are worth more than crumbs. I deserve happiness and respect as much as anyone else on the planet.

LaTeeDa

I don't look at not living in reality as a criticism. I simply see it as one of the 'tricks' my mind plays on me. My brain does all sorts of things that undermine me living my best life. By recognizing those tricks and dealing with them honestly, I move closer to peace. It doesn't mean there is something 'wrong' with me. It only means that I have been conditioned over the years to behave in ways that sabotage my own happiness. The more clearly I see that, the more opportunities I have to do something about it.

L

Learn2Live

I was this way too Posie. When I really started to get serious about my Recovery I was 29, unemployed (had been laid off twice), lost (gave away) my house, had no career set outside of the company I had worked for since a teenager, had very little education, was a recently sober alcoholic, AND had untreated mental health issues. What a mess. Of course I too was scared to be alone. I had NO IDEA how to take care of myself. Since leaving home at age 17, I had gone from relationship to relationship. What had started of necessity (getting into "love" relationships with men in order to be supported) became a really bad habit. I had not done the work I needed to do in order to ensure that I could support myself without fear that the bottom wouldn't fall out of my life (living from paycheck to paycheck). I began to learn how needy I was and to understand that when you are that needy, you attract into your life the kind of man who NEEDS you to BE needy. I think the dynamic I'm talking about is similar to what someone posted here several months ago about being taken by one of those con artists who want to marry you for your money.

Anyway...

What the universe brought me at that time in my life (everything that comes with being "engaged" to an alcoholic crack cocaine addict with no program) VIOLENTLY FORCED me to LEAP; to feel the fear and do it anyway. To RUN for my LIFE. To face myself and cry the tears and do the family of origin work and stand as tall as possible through it all. And what did I learn there? ONE: Your family are the only people that will be there when your world falls apart, and TWO: YOU CAN DO IT; you really can.

Now, thirteen years later, I am no longer terrified because I KNOW I am ABLE. I now LOVE being alone because it is how I find peace and serenity. It is quiet when I am alone, and no one's problems enter my peaceful "realm." There is no insanity here, no ridiculous, no troubles. No one screams or overdramatizes. The bills are paid, there are no PROBLEMS. I live a VERY simple life.

OK, that was probaby way more than you wanted to hear. Just wanted to relate my story how I was once also exactly where you are.

Make today a good day for yourself.

Summerpeach

This is by far, one of my fav. SR threads :-)

posiesperson

Wow. You are all so d**n impressive people! I've lovin' it in here, I'm feeling like I have a chance at feeling sane...maybe for the first time in my life.

L2L, thank you for sharing your story. It has helped me to have some perspective and I really admire the work you chose to do. The Universe has a way of dropping exactly what we need in our laps for the wake-up call, doesn't it? I am grateful, despite the pain, I can see how I'm growing.

I had another insight today: that getting my ego, my control issues, my manipulations (yeah, all that yucky stuff that Beatty outlines in CNM that I don't like to admit to myself) out of the way and getting to acceptance of my A's actions IS NOT the same thing as inviting it into my own life. It seems like a no-brainer, but it's not. In the past I thought that accepting something meant that I had to accept it into my life. Nope! I can accept that my A is an A, that there was an affair, that there are all kinds of enablers and people who will say that I'm the one with the hang-up. But it all SO DOESN'T MATTER. It doesn't matter b/c it just is what it is. I don't have to be afraid of it, I don't have to judge it, I don't have to control it, because I DON'T HAVE TO FEAR IT. Whewwwwwwwwwww. That feels good!

I can separate from my A with love, that I'm certain of. The rest will fall into place exactly as it needs to.

I spent a long time on the phone with my sponsor tonight, it was our first "meeting", and we'll meet again for a little while tomorrow. I'm getting hopeful that I can get better! Just promise me that y'all will still be here with the cheering squad when I might not be at the top of my game...and remind me/all of us of what we can achieve, one step at a time.

Takin' baby steps over here,
posie

GiveLove

Those baby steps are looking great, posie. You can cover a lot of ground in life that way!
:ghug3

Learn2Live

Sometimes we move forward, sometimes we fall backward, sometimes we stand still and go no where. You're doing GREAT! Keep up the good work!