Having a hard time understanding the difference between codependency and love?
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Having a hard time understanding the difference between codependency and love?
I feel selfish if I'm not loving others...
I feel weird thinking about myself when I know there are others out there suffering...
I mean I cry about every tragic thing; be it homelessness, abused children, women in the middle east...I have SO much empathy I don't know how to manage it...but is that really a disorder?
I'm doubting that it is my need to feel accepted, I feel like it is more the need to spread happiness to every unhappy person...
It makes me happy to help people other than myself. I feel like I'm not that important compared to the harsher things other people are going through
I don't know whats going on in my mind anymore...
I feel weird thinking about myself when I know there are others out there suffering...
I mean I cry about every tragic thing; be it homelessness, abused children, women in the middle east...I have SO much empathy I don't know how to manage it...but is that really a disorder?
I'm doubting that it is my need to feel accepted, I feel like it is more the need to spread happiness to every unhappy person...
It makes me happy to help people other than myself. I feel like I'm not that important compared to the harsher things other people are going through
I don't know whats going on in my mind anymore...
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Join Date: Sep 2009
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Personally, I think that the term codependency can be taken to the extreme quite often.
We are not robots, we are not meant to not care about other human beings. I think one of the best qualities someone can have is the desire to help others.
EVERYONE is codependent in some way shape or form. If they weren't there would be no relationships in the world.
Just because you, or any of us are caring people, who have feelings for others, who want to see the good in others does not mean we should automatically be labeled "Codependent!!".... It doesn't mean that anything is wrong with you. And sometimes I feel that is the implication. IMHO.
There can be extreme codependents though. I think this is what seperates healthy caring from unhealthy caring. When one starts to sacrifice their own needs for the needs of another. When one stays in an emotionally or physically abusive relationship for fear of losing their partner, when staying causes more harm than leaving would. When one loses their own identity because they get so consumed in the life, problems and care of others.
I cry at the idea that others suffer too. And I don't feel there is ANYTHING wrong with me because of that, nor should you.
I know that if I didn't have a suppoer system there for me when I felt at my lowest, It would be a lot more difficult to recover. I expect my friends to be there to listen to me when I am hurting, that's why they are friends! And I am there for them when they hurt. I don't say.....ok, you need to call me only when you are happy and figure out your own problems, and don't talk to me until you do! I don't agree with that thinking....
HOWEVER, if you continue to support or be there for someone who consistently lies, manipulates, uses you, let's you down, abuses you....that is the time to remove yourself as a support because it's not healthy for YOU.
This is just how I view it of course. I think the great books like codependent no more, and the term is really here for those of us who have really gotten so lost in relationships that drain us to the core. Just because you care about someone, something doesn't make you or anyone else codependent, it makes you human!
We are not robots, we are not meant to not care about other human beings. I think one of the best qualities someone can have is the desire to help others.
EVERYONE is codependent in some way shape or form. If they weren't there would be no relationships in the world.
Just because you, or any of us are caring people, who have feelings for others, who want to see the good in others does not mean we should automatically be labeled "Codependent!!".... It doesn't mean that anything is wrong with you. And sometimes I feel that is the implication. IMHO.
There can be extreme codependents though. I think this is what seperates healthy caring from unhealthy caring. When one starts to sacrifice their own needs for the needs of another. When one stays in an emotionally or physically abusive relationship for fear of losing their partner, when staying causes more harm than leaving would. When one loses their own identity because they get so consumed in the life, problems and care of others.
I cry at the idea that others suffer too. And I don't feel there is ANYTHING wrong with me because of that, nor should you.
I know that if I didn't have a suppoer system there for me when I felt at my lowest, It would be a lot more difficult to recover. I expect my friends to be there to listen to me when I am hurting, that's why they are friends! And I am there for them when they hurt. I don't say.....ok, you need to call me only when you are happy and figure out your own problems, and don't talk to me until you do! I don't agree with that thinking....
HOWEVER, if you continue to support or be there for someone who consistently lies, manipulates, uses you, let's you down, abuses you....that is the time to remove yourself as a support because it's not healthy for YOU.
This is just how I view it of course. I think the great books like codependent no more, and the term is really here for those of us who have really gotten so lost in relationships that drain us to the core. Just because you care about someone, something doesn't make you or anyone else codependent, it makes you human!
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There is tragedy in every corner of the world.
Without some protection of our inner self, we would die from the stimulus of so much pain we can't do anything about. I look at it as a membrane between me and the rest of the world...I need to keep firm boundaries so that all of that suffering doesn't take me with it. I can't save everyone. I just can't. We must choose our battles wisely.
Where those boundaries lie is up to each individual. If yours are immobilizing you, ruining your chances for a happy life, eating up all of your hard-earned resources, destroying your peace of mind.......then you need to re-think them, and work on learning where your boundaries are. Otherwise, you will end up destitute, miserable, sick, and alone.
Codependents claim the moral high ground as an excuse for their behavior -- I did, at least. I just "love too much." In truth, I didn't love myself enough.
IMHO there is no honor in killing ourselves trying to save every person that ever crosses our path. We might be taught that it's the Right way to live life, but I've seen it lead to an early grave for more people than I'd care to count.
We can't do it all. But we can all decide what we're willing and able to do. Counseling helped me immensely.
Without some protection of our inner self, we would die from the stimulus of so much pain we can't do anything about. I look at it as a membrane between me and the rest of the world...I need to keep firm boundaries so that all of that suffering doesn't take me with it. I can't save everyone. I just can't. We must choose our battles wisely.
Where those boundaries lie is up to each individual. If yours are immobilizing you, ruining your chances for a happy life, eating up all of your hard-earned resources, destroying your peace of mind.......then you need to re-think them, and work on learning where your boundaries are. Otherwise, you will end up destitute, miserable, sick, and alone.
Codependents claim the moral high ground as an excuse for their behavior -- I did, at least. I just "love too much." In truth, I didn't love myself enough.
IMHO there is no honor in killing ourselves trying to save every person that ever crosses our path. We might be taught that it's the Right way to live life, but I've seen it lead to an early grave for more people than I'd care to count.
We can't do it all. But we can all decide what we're willing and able to do. Counseling helped me immensely.
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In all things, there is a balance.
Loving others and loving oneself.
But if one is all one or the other, there is trouble.
Loving oneself only leads to selfishness and narcissism.
Loving only others leads to being abused, codependency, depression.
Balance.
Emerald, you have built up your loving others muscle so big, you might be a bit lopsided.
Time to build up your loving yourself muscle now.
Loving others and loving oneself.
But if one is all one or the other, there is trouble.
Loving oneself only leads to selfishness and narcissism.
Loving only others leads to being abused, codependency, depression.
Balance.
Emerald, you have built up your loving others muscle so big, you might be a bit lopsided.
Time to build up your loving yourself muscle now.
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
My mom is struggling with this very concept.
On one hand, she tells me that putting her needs aside to care for her family and friends is all part of being a good person. She believes she was taught as a child that someone who doesn't put the needs of others first is selfish and is not going to be loved by others.
On the other hand, she cries to me that she finds herself sick and exhausted from being the go-to person for the entire family and her friends when it comes to people's needs. She feels that whenever she needs a hand or she needs help no one bothers to show up, but she can never say no and if she dares say no she is retaliated against. She feels she has sacrificed her entire life to others and has gotten nothing in return.
IMHO - this defines a terminal caretaker/codependent issue and happiness really lies in between these two extremes.
I've been the subject of her codie behavior for years and I have witnessed many instances of it. She forces her advice a lot on others. She helps without being asked and sometimes foils peoples efforts to do for themselves. She also gets very hurt and angry if she is not sought out for help and another family member is even if it is over something she couldn't manage (moving heavy furniture comes to mind).
I think when you define your own self-worth and suffer emotionally by helping others rather than feeling needed and fulfilled then it is unhealthy for all involved.
I think when you care for others to the detriment of others and fail to notice it, you pass the point of caring and selfless and become obsessive and selfish.
I guess the adage "all things in moderation" applies. I try to remember that I have these same traits as my mother and they require work to keep in check. I am learning to help when I'm asked and not before, advise when it's been asked for and not because I think I know best, and to make sure I'm not trying to help someone else so I can feel worthy of their attention.
Sorry for rambling...hope it helps.
Alice
On one hand, she tells me that putting her needs aside to care for her family and friends is all part of being a good person. She believes she was taught as a child that someone who doesn't put the needs of others first is selfish and is not going to be loved by others.
On the other hand, she cries to me that she finds herself sick and exhausted from being the go-to person for the entire family and her friends when it comes to people's needs. She feels that whenever she needs a hand or she needs help no one bothers to show up, but she can never say no and if she dares say no she is retaliated against. She feels she has sacrificed her entire life to others and has gotten nothing in return.
IMHO - this defines a terminal caretaker/codependent issue and happiness really lies in between these two extremes.
I've been the subject of her codie behavior for years and I have witnessed many instances of it. She forces her advice a lot on others. She helps without being asked and sometimes foils peoples efforts to do for themselves. She also gets very hurt and angry if she is not sought out for help and another family member is even if it is over something she couldn't manage (moving heavy furniture comes to mind).
I think when you define your own self-worth and suffer emotionally by helping others rather than feeling needed and fulfilled then it is unhealthy for all involved.
I think when you care for others to the detriment of others and fail to notice it, you pass the point of caring and selfless and become obsessive and selfish.
I guess the adage "all things in moderation" applies. I try to remember that I have these same traits as my mother and they require work to keep in check. I am learning to help when I'm asked and not before, advise when it's been asked for and not because I think I know best, and to make sure I'm not trying to help someone else so I can feel worthy of their attention.
Sorry for rambling...hope it helps.
Alice
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Originally Posted by ItsmeAlice 
She feels she has sacrificed her entire life to others and has gotten nothing in return.
L
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Alice - I stole this blurb from some one on this forum and I have it it front of me everyday. I try and ask myself these questions all the time. It is what you were talking about.
Words to live by I think!
I also am lucky enough to know someone that is really able to separate herself from others. She is able to identify what is hers to own, and what is not. She does not obsess over things that clearly should not be on her plate. It takes me days to come to the same conclusions, if I ever do. She is able to think through and make sometimes hard decisions because she looks out for her own best interests. The result is someone that is actually able to help other people when needed. Someone that is a joy to be around. Someone that has selected a partner that complements her and that treats her well. I have such a good role model in her and I wish we lived closer. So, when I feel so lost I try and find people that have what I want and watch them. When I really do that, I can see the differences, I just need to learn how to get from here to there. She also does a lot more good for the people around her (both those she knows and those she does not) then the codie queens I also know!
Help is what I do for others who _can not_ do it for themselves.
Enabling is what I do for others who _can_ do for it for themselves.
If I say it without being asked; it is meddling.
If I say it twice; it is manipulation.
Enabling is what I do for others who _can_ do for it for themselves.
If I say it without being asked; it is meddling.
If I say it twice; it is manipulation.
I also am lucky enough to know someone that is really able to separate herself from others. She is able to identify what is hers to own, and what is not. She does not obsess over things that clearly should not be on her plate. It takes me days to come to the same conclusions, if I ever do. She is able to think through and make sometimes hard decisions because she looks out for her own best interests. The result is someone that is actually able to help other people when needed. Someone that is a joy to be around. Someone that has selected a partner that complements her and that treats her well. I have such a good role model in her and I wish we lived closer. So, when I feel so lost I try and find people that have what I want and watch them. When I really do that, I can see the differences, I just need to learn how to get from here to there. She also does a lot more good for the people around her (both those she knows and those she does not) then the codie queens I also know!
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To me, codependency is wanting others to do what I think is best for them.
Love is wanting them to do what they think is best for themselves even if they're wrong.
Sure, maybe my choice would be the better one, but that's their lesson to learn, and I have no right to take it away from them.
Personally, I can only give as much love as I receive. If I don't love myself, I can't be of any service to anyone else either.
Love is wanting them to do what they think is best for themselves even if they're wrong.
Sure, maybe my choice would be the better one, but that's their lesson to learn, and I have no right to take it away from them.
Personally, I can only give as much love as I receive. If I don't love myself, I can't be of any service to anyone else either.
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I'm just waking up to how all of this is part of me. My wife is an A, and the hardest part for me right now is trying to separate where the love ends and the codependency begins. What I'm starting to realize is that truly loving is a lot more than just trying to make someone happy. Of course that's the most basic form of feedback you get, but that's not at all objective. I'm realizing the futility of chasing her around hoping that if I just make her happy enough, distracted enough, etc etc, I can pull her out of this mess. That's not love. That's not helping. I'm trying to be objective about what it truly is to love and help. I am willing to put our marriage on the chopping block as a last consequence to make her understand what she's doing. I am willing to accept that she may rebel and end up with some random guy at the bar in a drunk blackout. I am able to do those things because I love her, and none of these will make her smile. I'm working on myself right now so that I am strong enough to truly help her in ways much more meaningful than immediate empathy ever can. I think sometimes love has a lot of tears that go along with it, and it's much more of a complex emotion to objectively help someone. You're not selfish for thinking of yourself. It's absolutely necessary.
To thine own self be true.
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"I am learning to help when I'm asked and not before, advise when it's been asked for and not because I think I know best, and to make sure I'm not trying to help someone else so I can feel worthy of their attention."
WOW thanks for this Alice. I am copying this down to look at EVERY day.
WOW thanks for this Alice. I am copying this down to look at EVERY day.
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Originally Posted by Learn2Live
"I am learning to help when I'm asked and not before, advise when it's been asked for and not because I think I know best, and to make sure I'm not trying to help someone else so I can feel worthy of their attention."
I fall short on these all the time. Practice, practice, practice......sigh
same planet...different world
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I finally reached a point where the question came to be:
"So ... if all that WASN'T love ... what IS?"
And that started a long long journey.
And now here YOU are - at the trailhead!
I'm excited for you!
You're in such good company for this part of the ride!
"So ... if all that WASN'T love ... what IS?"
And that started a long long journey.
And now here YOU are - at the trailhead!
I'm excited for you!
You're in such good company for this part of the ride!
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Join Date: Feb 2010
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Originally Posted by Learn2Live
"I am learning to help when I'm asked and not before, advise when it's been asked for and not because I think I know best, and to make sure I'm not trying to help someone else so I can feel worthy of their attention."
WOW thanks for this Alice. I am copying this down to look at EVERY day.
WOW thanks for this Alice. I am copying this down to look at EVERY day.
I offer my help even when no one asks, I feel like I can always "save the day" and in the process, distrupt others.
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