Suckered
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 17
Suckered
I'm feeling pretty sick to my stomach at the moment. I'm not going to try and analyse any of his behaviour because I have a feeling it goes well beyond alcoholism and lying.
As some of you may have read my ABF had a serious health scare some weeks ago, to the extent that he entered an outpatient programme and seemed to have a whole new attitude towards sobriety. I could hear the sincerity in his voice, it was almost as if he had had a life changing experience.
I have not seen him for two months but we have been speaking on the phone and he has wanted to tell me about the programme which I was happy to listen to. He went into quite a lot of detail about the counsellor he was seeing, what they discussed, how he was feeling etc etc and it all sounded very positive.
I spoke to him on Sunday and he sounded as if he had been drinking. I didn't bother to react but I was concerned. After some thought I decided to contact the outpatient programme he was on. Not sure why I thought this would help but in the event I'm glad I did.
I was horrified to discover that he wasn't on an outpatient programme at all, the counsellor he had mentioned didn't exist and that he had basically made up all the visits and the details up. As I haven't seen him for two months I'm now not even sure that he had the serious health scare.
I am stunned that someone would bother to go to such lengths to create an illusion. He had three sessions a week and he was keen to take me through every detail - and he was incredibly convincing, right down to the emotions he felt and recalling conversations they had, almost word for word.
I'm not really sure how I feel at the moment. Stunned is probably as far as I can get. Its certainly something I could never get past because if someone can lie that convincingly then nothing they say can ever be trusted again. I do feel a bit sick as well. It is without doubt the end - I can't even feel sad because I feel as if I don't know who he is any more.
As some of you may have read my ABF had a serious health scare some weeks ago, to the extent that he entered an outpatient programme and seemed to have a whole new attitude towards sobriety. I could hear the sincerity in his voice, it was almost as if he had had a life changing experience.
I have not seen him for two months but we have been speaking on the phone and he has wanted to tell me about the programme which I was happy to listen to. He went into quite a lot of detail about the counsellor he was seeing, what they discussed, how he was feeling etc etc and it all sounded very positive.
I spoke to him on Sunday and he sounded as if he had been drinking. I didn't bother to react but I was concerned. After some thought I decided to contact the outpatient programme he was on. Not sure why I thought this would help but in the event I'm glad I did.
I was horrified to discover that he wasn't on an outpatient programme at all, the counsellor he had mentioned didn't exist and that he had basically made up all the visits and the details up. As I haven't seen him for two months I'm now not even sure that he had the serious health scare.
I am stunned that someone would bother to go to such lengths to create an illusion. He had three sessions a week and he was keen to take me through every detail - and he was incredibly convincing, right down to the emotions he felt and recalling conversations they had, almost word for word.
I'm not really sure how I feel at the moment. Stunned is probably as far as I can get. Its certainly something I could never get past because if someone can lie that convincingly then nothing they say can ever be trusted again. I do feel a bit sick as well. It is without doubt the end - I can't even feel sad because I feel as if I don't know who he is any more.
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 357
i'm so sorry to hear that, and i can imagine a little of how you must be feeling. I have been stunned by the extent to which As lie and make up whole stories surrounding them. I think you've been lied to in a huge way here and i don't think i'd be able to move on from that either. To have been going on for 2 months must have destroyed any trust you had left in him. My thoughts are with you. It really is unbelievable that anyone would make up things to that degree - the A mind is something i'll never understand - it's like they are in some sort of fantasy world.
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Quebec
Posts: 2,708
Wow, I'm so sorry you're going through this.
I went through the same thing several times during my relationship with my XAH, and I too had that stunned, deer-in-the-headlights, "WTF??!" feeling...
Just to give you an idea, XAH had told me extensive stories about being in maximum security prison, having killed a man there, having been a professional bank robber with a crew of superstar bad@ss criminals, having run away from home at 15 and having lived with his sensei learning martial arts there (Karate Kid anyone?), having fallen off a mountain while rocking climbing and being saved by some mythical "angel", having never been married to anyone but me...it was ALL FALSE.
After too many lies and too many "WTF?!" moments, I got pissed. Then I tried to understand WHY. When I couldn't understand WHY someone would lie like that, I just shook my head, put the whole mess aside and walked away from it.
I know do not trust a single thing XAH tells me because I know his talent for lying...
I went through the same thing several times during my relationship with my XAH, and I too had that stunned, deer-in-the-headlights, "WTF??!" feeling...
Just to give you an idea, XAH had told me extensive stories about being in maximum security prison, having killed a man there, having been a professional bank robber with a crew of superstar bad@ss criminals, having run away from home at 15 and having lived with his sensei learning martial arts there (Karate Kid anyone?), having fallen off a mountain while rocking climbing and being saved by some mythical "angel", having never been married to anyone but me...it was ALL FALSE.
After too many lies and too many "WTF?!" moments, I got pissed. Then I tried to understand WHY. When I couldn't understand WHY someone would lie like that, I just shook my head, put the whole mess aside and walked away from it.
I know do not trust a single thing XAH tells me because I know his talent for lying...
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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Posts: 17
I think that's where I am. WTF???? A great phrase, three letters that make up a perfect sentence. I really feel totally blind-sided. I knew him many years ago and he held a senior position, was highly respected and was a gentle, kind man. I guess this must be manipulation at its worst.
I really feel the need to post on this because I have to sort out in my head a few things about me. I need to understand how I can learn from this experience. But how? For sure, I've walked away. I've blocked everything I can possibly block and I have no interest in even hearing an explanation. But really? Really???
I really feel the need to post on this because I have to sort out in my head a few things about me. I need to understand how I can learn from this experience. But how? For sure, I've walked away. I've blocked everything I can possibly block and I have no interest in even hearing an explanation. But really? Really???
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Southwest
Posts: 1,207
I find it difficult, as a relatively "straight" person, to deal with the insanity of alcoholism or other mental illness.
When I tell her my tales of woe of what my stbxah says to and about me, my mother says "That just doesn't make any sense" and I respond "right. It doesn't make any sense."
They don't make sense. Their actions don't make sense. Their stories don't make sense. Their priorities don't make sense.
Once we can acknowledge that about a loved one whom we think we know, we can get on with the busines of living.
But I do know, it's a big, big hurdle and to people like us, it is UNbelievable that they are not operating under the same rules or in the same universe as we are.
When I tell her my tales of woe of what my stbxah says to and about me, my mother says "That just doesn't make any sense" and I respond "right. It doesn't make any sense."
They don't make sense. Their actions don't make sense. Their stories don't make sense. Their priorities don't make sense.
Once we can acknowledge that about a loved one whom we think we know, we can get on with the busines of living.
But I do know, it's a big, big hurdle and to people like us, it is UNbelievable that they are not operating under the same rules or in the same universe as we are.
May it be
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A new day. Today I just see bright colors, in the small world of my dreams.
Posts: 384
get awareness from this kind of lesson & the process to look at it - as it is & RUN
and maybe - to perceive, a strengthened awareness of this type of person, so as to take the nearest exit... before getting too involved.
and maybe - to perceive, a strengthened awareness of this type of person, so as to take the nearest exit... before getting too involved.
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
Maybe this is one of the lessons you were meant to learn from this experience.
Right. Here is how I make sense of the fact that they NEVER make sense: They are living in a Parallel Universe. We get the pleasure of interacting with them, as if they are from OUR planet, OUR Universe, OUR plane, but they exist somewhere else where OUR realities and laws of "normal" or healthy human relationship and interaction do not apply.
Kinda' weird, huh?
It's best to keep your distance from people who are like that
They don't make sense. Their actions don't make sense. Their stories don't make sense. Their priorities don't make sense.
Kinda' weird, huh?It's best to keep your distance from people who are like that
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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I think you are right. I've never come across alcoholism before and despite reading up on it and trying to educate myself I clearly had NO idea what people meant when they talked about the insanity of alcoholism. What a terrible place to be. None of it makes any sense and why should it? Boy, am I running...
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JennyF - Ugh I am so sorry you are faced with that whopper of a lie! But you do sound like you are in a very healthy place....I agree with Iwant- very inspirational.
Noday - WOW!! That's all I can say.
There have been a couple of threads about the lies....I don't know why, but it always amazes me, yet also brings me comfort because it confirms.
Gosh, I look back and realize all the lies I was faced with too. One time, I had bought a plane ticket to come visit my XA, and ironically that SAME day I bought it he got word that he got an interview that was to take place over the SAME weekend I was going to visit, and it was a whole weekend interview, in another state. He went as far as to call me and text me throughout the weekend.....one night he was drunk and we were texting back and forth and he started texting in arabic, then he said sorry, they were having him speak arabic (he's not arabic but he apparently did translations for the military) and that's why he started texting that way.
It was all very elaborate. Sometimes I think the set ups for the lies are fun for some of them.
It actually reminds me of when Scott Peterson called Amber Frey over new years saying he was standing in front of the Eiffel Tower and he missed her, when really he was in Cali!!!
Noday - WOW!! That's all I can say.
There have been a couple of threads about the lies....I don't know why, but it always amazes me, yet also brings me comfort because it confirms.
Gosh, I look back and realize all the lies I was faced with too. One time, I had bought a plane ticket to come visit my XA, and ironically that SAME day I bought it he got word that he got an interview that was to take place over the SAME weekend I was going to visit, and it was a whole weekend interview, in another state. He went as far as to call me and text me throughout the weekend.....one night he was drunk and we were texting back and forth and he started texting in arabic, then he said sorry, they were having him speak arabic (he's not arabic but he apparently did translations for the military) and that's why he started texting that way.
It was all very elaborate. Sometimes I think the set ups for the lies are fun for some of them.
It actually reminds me of when Scott Peterson called Amber Frey over new years saying he was standing in front of the Eiffel Tower and he missed her, when really he was in Cali!!!
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 594
Hi Jenny. I'm really sorry you're going through this. I remember how shocked I was when I first figured out that my xabf was a liar. After the first few times, I could tell when he was drinking just by the incredibly elaborate details he would go into. Only liars are that detailed.
It's so hard to go through. Hang in there!
It's so hard to go through. Hang in there!
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Join Date: Oct 2009
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Run for the hills, for sure! NC!
This is downright pathological.
Pathological Liar
A pathological liar is usually defined as someone who lies incessantly to get their way and does so with little concern for others. Pathological lying is often viewed as coping mechanism developed in early childhood and it is often associated with some other type of mental health disorder. A pathological liar is often goal-oriented (i.e., lying is focused - it is done to get one's way). Pathological liars have little regard or respect for the rights and feelings of others. A pathological liar often comes across as being manipulative, cunning and self-centered.
http://www.truthaboutdeception.com/c...ompulsive.html
It really freaks me out. I have been unaware of smaller things about my partners, but I think about those women that find out their husbands have 5 other families that never knew about or something, and I worry that if I could have not noticed x,y, and z...what else am I missing?
Sorry you had to deal with that.
I'd say the lesson is what payoff do you get from overlooking warning signs? What leads you to do that?
I think that is where the learning lies (so to speak!).
This is downright pathological.
Pathological Liar
A pathological liar is usually defined as someone who lies incessantly to get their way and does so with little concern for others. Pathological lying is often viewed as coping mechanism developed in early childhood and it is often associated with some other type of mental health disorder. A pathological liar is often goal-oriented (i.e., lying is focused - it is done to get one's way). Pathological liars have little regard or respect for the rights and feelings of others. A pathological liar often comes across as being manipulative, cunning and self-centered.
http://www.truthaboutdeception.com/c...ompulsive.html
It really freaks me out. I have been unaware of smaller things about my partners, but I think about those women that find out their husbands have 5 other families that never knew about or something, and I worry that if I could have not noticed x,y, and z...what else am I missing?
Sorry you had to deal with that.
I'd say the lesson is what payoff do you get from overlooking warning signs? What leads you to do that?
I think that is where the learning lies (so to speak!).
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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Posts: 17
Wife, thanks for the questions. You're right. I ignored so many red flags at the beginning because I so wanted this to work. I posted a reply to Keep Pedalling's post this morning which sort of goes into the background. I never listened to my gut once because I wanted a life with this man so much.
Today, I have a terrible headache and I just feel so sad. So sad that maybe even the good bits - the wonderful holiday we had, the weekends away, the hours and hours we spent just talking - none of it was real. I don't want to analyse too much because as L2L said, none of it will ever make sense.
I'm secure in the decision never to engage with him again and I know I'm lucky that I never lived with him, never had to financially support him and that he was never unkind to me. You might say that his massive lies were an unkindness but I don't believe they were told to hurt me, just to keep me there in the game.
I do still love him and my heart hurts so much. But I got over him once before and he wasn't sick like this 17 years ago. I know I am strong enough to survive this but sometimes, life just sucks.
Today, I have a terrible headache and I just feel so sad. So sad that maybe even the good bits - the wonderful holiday we had, the weekends away, the hours and hours we spent just talking - none of it was real. I don't want to analyse too much because as L2L said, none of it will ever make sense.
I'm secure in the decision never to engage with him again and I know I'm lucky that I never lived with him, never had to financially support him and that he was never unkind to me. You might say that his massive lies were an unkindness but I don't believe they were told to hurt me, just to keep me there in the game.
I do still love him and my heart hurts so much. But I got over him once before and he wasn't sick like this 17 years ago. I know I am strong enough to survive this but sometimes, life just sucks.
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Jenny this is a part of 'the alcoholism.' It is HIS reality of the moment. I am not excusing it at all, just saying I do know from my own personal experience.
Once I found recovery .......................... and started working the steps of AA ................... when I got to Step 4 I had a hell of a time trying to figure out what actually did happen and what was a 'figment of my imagination' and there were some REAL WHOPPERS in that. And there were other 'things' that I had totally 'forgotten' (didn't want to deal with) that really had happened. My reality while drinking and using was SO DISTORTED it was no reality at all.
I am glad for you that you have found this out now, but sorry for the way you had to find it out.
Please keep posting and let us know how you are doing as we do care so very much.
Love and hugs,
Once I found recovery .......................... and started working the steps of AA ................... when I got to Step 4 I had a hell of a time trying to figure out what actually did happen and what was a 'figment of my imagination' and there were some REAL WHOPPERS in that. And there were other 'things' that I had totally 'forgotten' (didn't want to deal with) that really had happened. My reality while drinking and using was SO DISTORTED it was no reality at all.
I am glad for you that you have found this out now, but sorry for the way you had to find it out.
Please keep posting and let us know how you are doing as we do care so very much.
Love and hugs,
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 512
first I want you to know how sorry i am that you're having to endure this level of betrayal. i'm sorry! i read this book a long time ago and it came to mind when i read your post, it's titled when your lover is a liar. it contains a chapter on the most dangerous kind of liar the sociopath and i think you've got one! maybe by reading it you will gain some clarity and regain some dignitiy by realizing your a victim. i married one years ago and he was the love of my lifetime-so the shock really knocked me out when i figured out he too had lied in great detail (premeditated) and at length. And you know what? He's STILL doing it! I know you hurt now, but years from now you are going to actually laugh at how pathetic the liar is.
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