Codependant No More STUDY- Session 2: Jessica's Story Discussion
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Join Date: Apr 2008
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Codependant No More STUDY- Session 2: Jessica's Story Discussion
Codependent No More:
How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself
How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself
By Melodie Beattie
Book Study
Session 2 - Chapter 1: Jessica's Story
Session 2 - Chapter 1: Jessica's Story
Go ask the Multivax
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
Good morning everyone, I messed up my days! Decided to post today since that's what I really meant anyway. :-)
Good read! Jessica's story seemed to me, to echo the emotions all of us seem to go through after looking at myself and your posts too. Nice little family in here :-) Although, could you imagine if we all became roomates. What a circus or caretaking/demanding that would be. Half of us would be arguing over who WANTS to do the dishes. And the other half would just be pissed they're piled up to begin with. Oh, and I'm pretty sure there would be around three of us crying at any given time. ;-)
What this chapter revealed to me, as a recovering alcoholic, was once again insight into my behaviors that didn't quite add up to alcoholism as the real culprit. This story drives home the fact that this is where my efforts need to be at this time in my life.
Jessica came from an alocholic family and just found that she married an alcoholic. Nobody plans to do this. It just seems to happen. It's as if when it comes to this particular aspect of life - we have blinders on. I want to throw those blinders away, right after I crush them with my boots.
I spent most of my marriage as a drunk. We didn't drink together very much. I was a shameful closet drunk. He worked second shift, so he'd come home after mid-night. I'd be passed out well before then. Although, he would sometimes say "Do you remember what you said to me last night" And I'd freak out and pretend to know! Why couldn't I just pass out and stay that way?! Anyway, I would make up for living that way by trying to be super mom and perfect wifey while sober. It was exhausting, and all I ever got was "average" anyway.
It wasn't until I got sober of course that my outlook changed. My first year of sobriety had the focus on ME and my drinking. Around this time is when the codependant began taking over. Guilt and blame seeped in. I wouldn't have been so bad had he not had a drug problem (prescriptions) if he was a better man I wouldn't have gotten so sick. Jessica went through this whole thing - minus the liquor. After my first year, my codependancy was the guiding force in my life. I had no idea. AA does not nail this. It crept in without a notice. Like Jessica, luxery naps became a necessity. I told myself it was because I was getting older, or I had a special needs child, or that I'm just a little depressed and they seem to help. Anything to justify "checking out".
When it was suggested that Jessica attend Alanon meetings, my reaction was much like her own. A bunch of women huddled and crying over thier F'd up husbands and how their lives were runined. etc... It just didn't seem to be a place where I'd want to go! Besides, I had the 12-steps of AA and was always told that they can work in every aspect of life. When he finally made it rehab (after being talked into it). I was supremely messed up. So, I tried my first Alanon meeting, I felt like a spy. Like I didn't belong. Afterall, these poor people were married to me. And hey, why don't you people go out and live your life. Why sit here and DWELL on what goes on in your homes anyway. So, I left the meeting early. I wasn't ready to "listen".
Jessica also talks about how anger was always just below the surface when they were together. Same here. It was a lot of silence. The anger wasn't really noticed because it was so used to being just surpressed enough - it was normal. We weren't the screaming throwing things fightin type. What tended to happen were quick outbursts. So, he'd forget to do something and I'd lash out and have an exaggerated response. Might call him an A-hole, but then he'd take off upstairs or I would. Then, that would be it. Back to silence.
Again, like Jessica at night we would retreat to our side of the bed. There was no affection in the bed or out. We did not have sex for 2 1/2 years. I guess we had sex three years ago because I just fed the evidence breakfast. However, I don't remember it. Anyway, for me the straw that broke the camels back was when I initiated it after all this time and was met with "I'm sore, and tired". I literally stood up and looked at him - I knew, at that very moment, something changed. - A shift occured.
Jessica's own story ended on the same idea as what I just felt above. An admittance, a simple statement that summed up EVERYTHING. "I had lost control".
Reiterating the summed up points for this chapter by Melodie:
1.) She wasn't crazy, she was codependant
2.) Codependancy then takes on a life of iit's own
3.) To get rid of it, we have to do it. Codependancy is our responsibility.
Good read! Jessica's story seemed to me, to echo the emotions all of us seem to go through after looking at myself and your posts too. Nice little family in here :-) Although, could you imagine if we all became roomates. What a circus or caretaking/demanding that would be. Half of us would be arguing over who WANTS to do the dishes. And the other half would just be pissed they're piled up to begin with. Oh, and I'm pretty sure there would be around three of us crying at any given time. ;-)
What this chapter revealed to me, as a recovering alcoholic, was once again insight into my behaviors that didn't quite add up to alcoholism as the real culprit. This story drives home the fact that this is where my efforts need to be at this time in my life.
Jessica came from an alocholic family and just found that she married an alcoholic. Nobody plans to do this. It just seems to happen. It's as if when it comes to this particular aspect of life - we have blinders on. I want to throw those blinders away, right after I crush them with my boots.
I spent most of my marriage as a drunk. We didn't drink together very much. I was a shameful closet drunk. He worked second shift, so he'd come home after mid-night. I'd be passed out well before then. Although, he would sometimes say "Do you remember what you said to me last night" And I'd freak out and pretend to know! Why couldn't I just pass out and stay that way?! Anyway, I would make up for living that way by trying to be super mom and perfect wifey while sober. It was exhausting, and all I ever got was "average" anyway.
It wasn't until I got sober of course that my outlook changed. My first year of sobriety had the focus on ME and my drinking. Around this time is when the codependant began taking over. Guilt and blame seeped in. I wouldn't have been so bad had he not had a drug problem (prescriptions) if he was a better man I wouldn't have gotten so sick. Jessica went through this whole thing - minus the liquor. After my first year, my codependancy was the guiding force in my life. I had no idea. AA does not nail this. It crept in without a notice. Like Jessica, luxery naps became a necessity. I told myself it was because I was getting older, or I had a special needs child, or that I'm just a little depressed and they seem to help. Anything to justify "checking out".
When it was suggested that Jessica attend Alanon meetings, my reaction was much like her own. A bunch of women huddled and crying over thier F'd up husbands and how their lives were runined. etc... It just didn't seem to be a place where I'd want to go! Besides, I had the 12-steps of AA and was always told that they can work in every aspect of life. When he finally made it rehab (after being talked into it). I was supremely messed up. So, I tried my first Alanon meeting, I felt like a spy. Like I didn't belong. Afterall, these poor people were married to me. And hey, why don't you people go out and live your life. Why sit here and DWELL on what goes on in your homes anyway. So, I left the meeting early. I wasn't ready to "listen".
Jessica also talks about how anger was always just below the surface when they were together. Same here. It was a lot of silence. The anger wasn't really noticed because it was so used to being just surpressed enough - it was normal. We weren't the screaming throwing things fightin type. What tended to happen were quick outbursts. So, he'd forget to do something and I'd lash out and have an exaggerated response. Might call him an A-hole, but then he'd take off upstairs or I would. Then, that would be it. Back to silence.
Again, like Jessica at night we would retreat to our side of the bed. There was no affection in the bed or out. We did not have sex for 2 1/2 years. I guess we had sex three years ago because I just fed the evidence breakfast. However, I don't remember it. Anyway, for me the straw that broke the camels back was when I initiated it after all this time and was met with "I'm sore, and tired". I literally stood up and looked at him - I knew, at that very moment, something changed. - A shift occured.
Jessica's own story ended on the same idea as what I just felt above. An admittance, a simple statement that summed up EVERYTHING. "I had lost control".
Reiterating the summed up points for this chapter by Melodie:
1.) She wasn't crazy, she was codependant
2.) Codependancy then takes on a life of iit's own
3.) To get rid of it, we have to do it. Codependancy is our responsibility.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Waterford MI
Posts: 4,202
I know this story.
It is very similar to mine. Look for similarities, not differences, I learned that in AA.
After I went to rehab, and then my husband went to rehab, I had these ridiculous hopes that my ex would "get" it. He did not.
During one counseling session our counselor asked:
"What attracted you to your spouse?"
Of course, I had many answers, always the good girl. Supportive, helpful.
My ex could not come up with one thing, not one.
Wow, my rage was insane. Here I was doing my best and he had nothing.
How dare he? lol
Al-Anon was mentioned to me several times, and I had the same feelings as Jessica. Little women huddled around talking about the spouse. Well, not for me! I was strong, I could handle everything. Even containing this seething rage I was developing for my still using ex.
Now, I am dealing with my addicted daughter. It has been years, 2 rehabs, counseling for 3 years, and now Juvenile Drug Court.
I am starting to get it, I can't worry her clean and sober.
She has to do it. Dammit.
Learning to detach.
After I went to rehab, and then my husband went to rehab, I had these ridiculous hopes that my ex would "get" it. He did not.
During one counseling session our counselor asked:
"What attracted you to your spouse?"
Of course, I had many answers, always the good girl. Supportive, helpful.
My ex could not come up with one thing, not one.
Wow, my rage was insane. Here I was doing my best and he had nothing.
How dare he? lol
Al-Anon was mentioned to me several times, and I had the same feelings as Jessica. Little women huddled around talking about the spouse. Well, not for me! I was strong, I could handle everything. Even containing this seething rage I was developing for my still using ex.
Now, I am dealing with my addicted daughter. It has been years, 2 rehabs, counseling for 3 years, and now Juvenile Drug Court.
I am starting to get it, I can't worry her clean and sober.
She has to do it. Dammit.
Learning to detach.
Go ask the Multivax
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
"Now, I am dealing with my addicted daughter. It has been years, 2 rehabs, counseling for 3 years, and now Juvenile Drug Court."
This reminded me of a story I read once. About a father who's son was lost in the throws of addiction. He was trying to let go. Prayer was vital for him at this stage. He was praying that his son be able to get out of this addiction. Praying for his son's freedom from pain".
After a while, he came to realize that his prayers were on the wrong path. So his prayers changed to "Please help me to be a better parent to a dying child". This made all the difference for his well being.
His son got sober in the end. :-)
This reminded me of a story I read once. About a father who's son was lost in the throws of addiction. He was trying to let go. Prayer was vital for him at this stage. He was praying that his son be able to get out of this addiction. Praying for his son's freedom from pain".
After a while, he came to realize that his prayers were on the wrong path. So his prayers changed to "Please help me to be a better parent to a dying child". This made all the difference for his well being.
His son got sober in the end. :-)
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 512
Jessica's story emotionally struck a few raw nerves with me. Although, we don't have children (mine are grown/gone, his with their mother(s)) The deeply rooted unhappiness as a direct result of his carelessness and meanness that I continued to endure...I adapted to it AND took a likeing to wine on top of everything else.
I personally felt as Jessica did when her story conveys why couldn't he stop _________ while I still cared? And I stayed out of lack of iniative and indecision...kind of like the pit and the pendulum. The pendulum was my wish for his sobriety and it gradually lowered with each swing and sliced me to shreds.....I just layed there.
I love the story but really hoped that the happy ending would have been explained a little more. So few happy endings, and this would've been inspiring.
I personally felt as Jessica did when her story conveys why couldn't he stop _________ while I still cared? And I stayed out of lack of iniative and indecision...kind of like the pit and the pendulum. The pendulum was my wish for his sobriety and it gradually lowered with each swing and sliced me to shreds.....I just layed there.
I love the story but really hoped that the happy ending would have been explained a little more. So few happy endings, and this would've been inspiring.
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Anywhere but here...
Posts: 227
I saw myself in Jessica. Obsessive about 'appearances', that everything had to be right in my world, even as it was falling apart around me.
I had NO control over his addiction, yet I continued to try to keep up appearances by doing normal things. All the while, he is spiraling farther and I am trying to get him to change.
What a mess...No wonder I felt so much anger!
I had NO control over his addiction, yet I continued to try to keep up appearances by doing normal things. All the while, he is spiraling farther and I am trying to get him to change.
What a mess...No wonder I felt so much anger!
Go ask the Multivax
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
Hey has anyone else noticed that THIS forum (friends and families of Alcoholics) is the busiest one? The one that has the MOST people on it at anyone one time? The highest number of read posts? I'm all over this place in multiple forums, I just noticed that.
Wow, I do have ADD!
Wow, I do have ADD!
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 61
Similarities...hmm...what I can relate to in Jessica's story is being held hostage to one's thoughts.
I guess part of what makes me vulnerable or susceptible to co-dependent tendency is my intense, inward-focused thought life. Can't seem to "put things to bed," ya know? Lol. And when I am feeling _______(fill in the blank with tired, sad, lonely, etc) I gravitate towards those same ruminations.
Here I am, doing the same thing over and over, *hoping* for different results...can you say inSANity???
What I hope to accomplish through reading the book is to learn how to disengage and STAY disengaged...to determine what my boundaries are and to practice expressing what my needs are.
I guess part of what makes me vulnerable or susceptible to co-dependent tendency is my intense, inward-focused thought life. Can't seem to "put things to bed," ya know? Lol. And when I am feeling _______(fill in the blank with tired, sad, lonely, etc) I gravitate towards those same ruminations.
Here I am, doing the same thing over and over, *hoping* for different results...can you say inSANity???
What I hope to accomplish through reading the book is to learn how to disengage and STAY disengaged...to determine what my boundaries are and to practice expressing what my needs are.
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Humble, tx
Posts: 82
Chapter 1
What I like about our bookstudy here, is I belong, we all want to get better.
Once "it" sets in-codependency takes on a life of it's own...
Deep breath.
I was affected because I was born into a family full of alcoholics and codies!
I had little choice in the beginning. My behavior was typical of a child brought up in disfunction galore!
Today however is different. It's a brand new 24 hours. I know I'm healing, changing, and finding peace and serenity.
It's not easy, but it is worth it! I'm worth the effort.
I did not get here accidently.
It was a cyber push. 2 years ago, I was losing my mind, and it was all "his" fault! I was on a cancer support website, educating myself about his cancer, asking other caretakers if any of them had a loved one going thru treatment, being told by dr.s and shrinks, not to drink or smoke during chemo, because it reduces the effectiveness of the chemo., anyone please tell me how can we get thru to him? I had a lightbulb moment when one kind lady, gently shoved me back into ( been recovered, in my own mind) recovery direction.
It was his disease, his alcoholism, his smoking anything.
It was my insanity, that got me back to my programs.
It was so hard to get back into my programs, yet I did. I went to an alanon meeting, bookstudy, transforming our losses(love/ hate this book).
And I sobbed, telling these people all my fears about him, he'll die, just like all the others, and it will kill me!
They told me after the mtg, to keep coming back! Told me, come Friday at noon, I said nooooo. We have radiation, and chemo, can't go Friday. But they said, sure you can, let his drs, treat his cancer, and you come here and treat your disease. Hmmmmm, that wasn't sitting well with me. He shouldn't drive, he's on bookoo pills, alcohol, etc. Barf!
Slowly, I learned to allow myself to tend to myself, ummm, progress, not perfection!
Today if I haven't been taking care of me, I realize it sooner, rather than, too late! It's a battleground in my mind sometimes, yet today I'm aware of it, and can change it!
I love you people! I belong here, earned my seat, so to say!
I love the way you teach me, and expect me to be accountable for me.
Once "it" sets in-codependency takes on a life of it's own...
Deep breath.
I was affected because I was born into a family full of alcoholics and codies!
I had little choice in the beginning. My behavior was typical of a child brought up in disfunction galore!
Today however is different. It's a brand new 24 hours. I know I'm healing, changing, and finding peace and serenity.
It's not easy, but it is worth it! I'm worth the effort.
I did not get here accidently.
It was a cyber push. 2 years ago, I was losing my mind, and it was all "his" fault! I was on a cancer support website, educating myself about his cancer, asking other caretakers if any of them had a loved one going thru treatment, being told by dr.s and shrinks, not to drink or smoke during chemo, because it reduces the effectiveness of the chemo., anyone please tell me how can we get thru to him? I had a lightbulb moment when one kind lady, gently shoved me back into ( been recovered, in my own mind) recovery direction.
It was his disease, his alcoholism, his smoking anything.
It was my insanity, that got me back to my programs.
It was so hard to get back into my programs, yet I did. I went to an alanon meeting, bookstudy, transforming our losses(love/ hate this book).
And I sobbed, telling these people all my fears about him, he'll die, just like all the others, and it will kill me!
They told me after the mtg, to keep coming back! Told me, come Friday at noon, I said nooooo. We have radiation, and chemo, can't go Friday. But they said, sure you can, let his drs, treat his cancer, and you come here and treat your disease. Hmmmmm, that wasn't sitting well with me. He shouldn't drive, he's on bookoo pills, alcohol, etc. Barf!
Slowly, I learned to allow myself to tend to myself, ummm, progress, not perfection!
Today if I haven't been taking care of me, I realize it sooner, rather than, too late! It's a battleground in my mind sometimes, yet today I'm aware of it, and can change it!
I love you people! I belong here, earned my seat, so to say!
I love the way you teach me, and expect me to be accountable for me.
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
When I CHOOSE to associate with people who know and practice healthy ways of relating, I am less inclined to relate to others in a codependent manner. People with alcoholism and addiction, especially when actively using, are typically DEPENDENT on others to take care of them, because when a person uses drugs and/or alcohol, they are UNABLE to fully take care of themselves and their responsibilities. Such needy people seek out others who also have unhealthy ways of relating but who tend to caretake and be ultra-responsible for whatever reason. Seeking out caretakers becomes a habit that is hard to change even after you stop actively using. Just because you get clean or sober does not mean you are magically "cured" of your unhealthy ways of relating. This is why being around folks with even YEARS clean and sober can still make you sick.
When we continue to make unhealthy choices, we keep ourselves associating with other people who are also making unhealthy choices. The healthier I strive to be, the healthier I become, and the healthier the people I invite into my life. Realizing I had codependent tendencies and deciding I did not want to live that way was half of the battle.
When we continue to make unhealthy choices, we keep ourselves associating with other people who are also making unhealthy choices. The healthier I strive to be, the healthier I become, and the healthier the people I invite into my life. Realizing I had codependent tendencies and deciding I did not want to live that way was half of the battle.
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South Africa
Posts: 330
"It no longer mattered whose fault it was - I had lost control."
This so resonated with me. The surprise that came over me after the separation! Boy was I ever not prepared for the wave of emotions. I never knew that I was not living myown life and that I was not taking responsibility for my own life - just like my AH. I thought I was the world's strongest person - carrying all the resposibility in the household. Being the only "sane" parent . I sure did not think of myself as being needy and controlling!
This book ,SR (all of you guys) and therapy (still busy !)are my lifelines. THanx all of you. I was a big lurker. I found so much strength through you guys!
Love ya
This so resonated with me. The surprise that came over me after the separation! Boy was I ever not prepared for the wave of emotions. I never knew that I was not living myown life and that I was not taking responsibility for my own life - just like my AH. I thought I was the world's strongest person - carrying all the resposibility in the household. Being the only "sane" parent . I sure did not think of myself as being needy and controlling!
This book ,SR (all of you guys) and therapy (still busy !)are my lifelines. THanx all of you. I was a big lurker. I found so much strength through you guys!
Love ya
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
OMGosh freefalling, thanks for that share. It reminded me of when I discovered that I was:
Righteously indignant (definition from WIKI) Righteous means acting in accord with divine or moral law or free from guilt or sin. It may also refer to a morally right or justifiable decision or action or to an action which arises from an outraged sense of justice or morality. "Indignation" is anger aroused by something unjust, mean, or unworthy. The Standard Dictionary describes indignation as a "feeling involving anger mingled with contempt or disgust".
This is why nowadays I believe when people ask you if they are "right" or "wrong" what they are asking you is to take their side in something. I also don't see things in terms of justice or fairness anymore. And now I have come to realize how judgmental I can be of others.
Righteously indignant (definition from WIKI) Righteous means acting in accord with divine or moral law or free from guilt or sin. It may also refer to a morally right or justifiable decision or action or to an action which arises from an outraged sense of justice or morality. "Indignation" is anger aroused by something unjust, mean, or unworthy. The Standard Dictionary describes indignation as a "feeling involving anger mingled with contempt or disgust".
This is why nowadays I believe when people ask you if they are "right" or "wrong" what they are asking you is to take their side in something. I also don't see things in terms of justice or fairness anymore. And now I have come to realize how judgmental I can be of others.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: rural west
Posts: 1,375
What struck me from this chapter was Jessica's:
lack of initiative and indecision
her anger
her wishing it was different
and her righteousness.
I loved the quote "if you want to get rid of [codependency] you have to do something!"
LOL! Right. Right.
My lack of initiative and indecision locks horns with my movement to grow.
My husband agreed, begrudgingly, to go to therapy with me.
He missed the first meeting. Because of life life-ing, we can't get in together for a month. I will keep going alone. I DO want to "do something"! What I don't want to do is leave him. I am hoping (there's that "wishing it was different") I can change me and... it will change him. HAHA! That's not so different than wanting to change him, hmm?
Dang it!
The therapist said I was way to pushy to give my husband any space to communicate. He said it would probably rub me wrong, but I need to learn how to be meek and assertive (rather than my aggressive assertive). Loving, understanding, gentle, and continuing to march forward with my needs - gently and relentlessly.
I don't know that that will do it...but I am willing to try anything before giving up. I have no idea HOW to do that.
The therapist said if there was no movement in 2 months (until I go away to work for the summer), I would have my answer on the relationship.
He also said that developing my communication skills would help me in this relationship or one in the future.
Hmmm.
I'm open. I don't know what he means or what could change for the better because of it. Would my husband open up? To what extent? Would that resolve things? Don't know.
My problem is, I feel so righteous about my VALID list of complaints - he DID lie, he still hasn't owned up to it, he is still blaming me for our upset, he won't admit the drinking is a problem, he shuts down communication, blah blah blah.
That righteousness has me say, "Be meek? Be loving and understanding and apologetic about my rage? Hell NO! So he gets off scot free? I have to FURTHER baby the baby and stuff my legitimate fury? To "take care of him" and make it safe enough so he can share that he LIED TO ME? RAHHHHH!"
Okay, I have anger issues that I am working through! LOL!
The therapist said I have legitimate complaints, but in this situation I can be right or I can be happy. If I want him to open up, I have to ease up.
<sigh>
So I am experimenting for 2 months.
I am trying to DO SOMETHING differently. To own my poor communication. See what happens.
I'll keep you updated.
Thanks for the book group. I'm digging it.
lack of initiative and indecision
her anger
her wishing it was different
and her righteousness.
I loved the quote "if you want to get rid of [codependency] you have to do something!"
LOL! Right. Right.
My lack of initiative and indecision locks horns with my movement to grow.
My husband agreed, begrudgingly, to go to therapy with me.
He missed the first meeting. Because of life life-ing, we can't get in together for a month. I will keep going alone. I DO want to "do something"! What I don't want to do is leave him. I am hoping (there's that "wishing it was different") I can change me and... it will change him. HAHA! That's not so different than wanting to change him, hmm?
Dang it!
The therapist said I was way to pushy to give my husband any space to communicate. He said it would probably rub me wrong, but I need to learn how to be meek and assertive (rather than my aggressive assertive). Loving, understanding, gentle, and continuing to march forward with my needs - gently and relentlessly.
I don't know that that will do it...but I am willing to try anything before giving up. I have no idea HOW to do that.
The therapist said if there was no movement in 2 months (until I go away to work for the summer), I would have my answer on the relationship.
He also said that developing my communication skills would help me in this relationship or one in the future.
Hmmm.
I'm open. I don't know what he means or what could change for the better because of it. Would my husband open up? To what extent? Would that resolve things? Don't know.
My problem is, I feel so righteous about my VALID list of complaints - he DID lie, he still hasn't owned up to it, he is still blaming me for our upset, he won't admit the drinking is a problem, he shuts down communication, blah blah blah.
That righteousness has me say, "Be meek? Be loving and understanding and apologetic about my rage? Hell NO! So he gets off scot free? I have to FURTHER baby the baby and stuff my legitimate fury? To "take care of him" and make it safe enough so he can share that he LIED TO ME? RAHHHHH!"
Okay, I have anger issues that I am working through! LOL!
The therapist said I have legitimate complaints, but in this situation I can be right or I can be happy. If I want him to open up, I have to ease up.
<sigh>
So I am experimenting for 2 months.
I am trying to DO SOMETHING differently. To own my poor communication. See what happens.
I'll keep you updated.
Thanks for the book group. I'm digging it.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: rural west
Posts: 1,375
Originally Posted by Learn2Live 
OMGosh freefalling, thanks for that share. It reminded me of when I discovered that I was:
Righteously indignant (definition from WIKI
Righteous means acting in accord with divine or moral law or free from guilt or sin. It may also refer to a morally right or justifiable decision or action or to an action which arises from an outraged sense of justice or morality. "Indignation" is anger aroused by something unjust, mean, or unworthy. The Standard Dictionary describes indignation as a "feeling involving anger mingled with contempt or disgust".
This is why nowadays I believe when people say ask you if they are "right" or "wrong" what they are asking you is to take their side in something. I also don't see things in terms of justice or fairness anymore. And now I have come to realize how judgmental I can be of others.
Righteously indignant (definition from WIKI
Righteous means acting in accord with divine or moral law or free from guilt or sin. It may also refer to a morally right or justifiable decision or action or to an action which arises from an outraged sense of justice or morality. "Indignation" is anger aroused by something unjust, mean, or unworthy. The Standard Dictionary describes indignation as a "feeling involving anger mingled with contempt or disgust". This is why nowadays I believe when people say ask you if they are "right" or "wrong" what they are asking you is to take their side in something. I also don't see things in terms of justice or fairness anymore. And now I have come to realize how judgmental I can be of others.
But (she begins whining) I'm so justified!
Who wouldn't be that way given what happened?
If I wasn't righteously indignant, I would get stepped on, right?
It protects me.
If I stopped feeling righteously indignant I would be a doormat, right?
But it IS wrong what he did! Lying is wrong! Denial, blameshifting, etc. - it's all wrong...
OH GOD! I am still SO MIRED in the right/wrong paradigm.
AHHHHHH!
You're telling me there is another way to be?
What if I just saw his behavior without judging it and declined to accept a marriage that included those things?
I would feel...
I have NO IDEA what would take the place of righteous indignation.
Can anyone speak to this? I feel like I am in foreign territory. I don't even know how to THINK about these ideas outside of the right/wrong view.
Comments?
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
I'm following along and enjoying this discussion a lot. I'll participate more when I find my book!
I was very righteously indignant for years. I had plenty of guilt thrown in so it didn't help me there but it did help me justify things like hiding money, hiding my plans, my feelings, hiding my intentions, telling lies etc. I'm not proud of those things and they became second nature.
For me it was relief. It was like stepping out of a tornado.
I want to add that I looked at my xah with nothing but anger, resentment, and often downright hate. That is not something I was comfortable with. It felt bad to feel that way. Once I let go of all that righteous indignation I let go of that overwhelming resentment as well. Most of it anyway
I was very righteously indignant for years. I had plenty of guilt thrown in so it didn't help me there but it did help me justify things like hiding money, hiding my plans, my feelings, hiding my intentions, telling lies etc. I'm not proud of those things and they became second nature.
Originally Posted by wifeofadrinker
You're telling me there is another way to be?
What if I just saw his behavior without judging it and declined to accept a marriage that included those things?
I would feel...
I have NO IDEA what would take the place of righteous indignation.
Can anyone speak to this? I feel like I am in foreign territory. I don't even know how to THINK about these ideas outside of the right/wrong view.
Comments?
What if I just saw his behavior without judging it and declined to accept a marriage that included those things?
I would feel...
I have NO IDEA what would take the place of righteous indignation.
Can anyone speak to this? I feel like I am in foreign territory. I don't even know how to THINK about these ideas outside of the right/wrong view.
Comments?
I want to add that I looked at my xah with nothing but anger, resentment, and often downright hate. That is not something I was comfortable with. It felt bad to feel that way. Once I let go of all that righteous indignation I let go of that overwhelming resentment as well. Most of it anyway
Go ask the Multivax
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
"But it IS wrong what he did! Lying is wrong! Denial, blameshifting, etc. - it's all wrong...
OH GOD! I am still SO MIRED in the right/wrong paradigm.
AHHHHHH!"
Hey Wifeofadrinker! That emotional statement, I felt the exact same way. Can you read it and see all the power he's got over you? That's what it's about. Justified, sometimes for me fer sure. I guess this is were boundaries play in? I got rid of mine (man that is). No love there anymore. So, it's easier for me. But, I remember being you. :-) Not to say you should kick 'em to the curb! It's just what I had to do eventually.
OH GOD! I am still SO MIRED in the right/wrong paradigm.
AHHHHHH!"
Hey Wifeofadrinker! That emotional statement, I felt the exact same way. Can you read it and see all the power he's got over you? That's what it's about. Justified, sometimes for me fer sure. I guess this is were boundaries play in? I got rid of mine (man that is). No love there anymore. So, it's easier for me. But, I remember being you. :-) Not to say you should kick 'em to the curb! It's just what I had to do eventually.
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