Am I being unreasonable?
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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Am I being unreasonable?
I guess I just need some advice/reassurance. My ABF is lying to me quite a lot and I get really angry about it. It’s usually drink related but it can be about little things that really don’t warrant lying at all. I know his problems are not all about alcohol and he has mental health issues but surely lying to me is more than just part of those problems? I’m beginning to think he should add compulsive liar to his list of problems. He says afterwards that he lies to protect me or so I don’t worry. I’ve told him it makes me feel worthless to be lied to all the time and I feel I can’t believe anything he tells me, but he still ends up doing it. When I confront him about it he manages to turn it around on me and gets very defensive. I’m getting sick of it and am beginning to question whether my reactions are wrong so need some opinions on this occasion as an example:
He phoned me in the day (sounded sober) and asked if someone had got in touch with me (I don’t even know them). I said no. He said that a friend of this person had phoned him and said they needed to speak to him urgently. A while later he phoned me back and said that he had to travel somewhere because this person (a family member of his) was in hospital and he had to go see what was wrong. I believed him, with only the slightest doubt. He told me where he was on the journey there and said he’s call as soon as he had news on how they were. Now, here is where he just doesn’t think things through – he’s a rubbish liar – not that long later I spoke to him and he said he was home (now, he couldn’t possibly have made that journey twice and visited someone in that short space of time). Within a few minutes he admitted that he was somewhere else, and it was actually a good thing he was doing (if i can definitely believe him). So, why lie? Why make up such a farfetched horrible story for no reason? If he didn’t want me to know what he was doing he could have just not said anything – I don’t know what he’s doing at every given second of the day.
I told him right then that it made me unhappy and feel worthless when he lied and that i feel I cant trust him i this way. I decided not to start a big argument about it because he’d been drinking a bit and nothing good ever comes of talking to him when he’s getting drunk, so I left it and carried on as normal that evening. In the morning when he was sober I wanted to talk about it and told him I don’t feel like I know him at all – I said how much I hate the lies. He got defensive and tried to make out I was being unreasonable in talking about it because I was fine last night. Then it managed to be my faults that got brought up and he was only trying to do a nice thing and protect me etc etc. He failed to see that lying and saying that a family member was actually in hospital (!) was wrong. I think he kind of apologised after and said he didn’t mean to hurt me (same old story) but he still tried for a while to make it all my fault.
Am I entitled to feel annoyed about this behaviour or am I being too hard on him? Is my reaction a ‘normal’ one? I’m just doubting myself now. Still, I think I did well not to talk to him about it when drunk and I don’t feel as bad as I normally would in this situation. It is his problem to sort out and as I am choosing to stay in this relationship, I have to choose what is acceptable. Things are moving forward for me, just still very slowly. Thanks for reading!
He phoned me in the day (sounded sober) and asked if someone had got in touch with me (I don’t even know them). I said no. He said that a friend of this person had phoned him and said they needed to speak to him urgently. A while later he phoned me back and said that he had to travel somewhere because this person (a family member of his) was in hospital and he had to go see what was wrong. I believed him, with only the slightest doubt. He told me where he was on the journey there and said he’s call as soon as he had news on how they were. Now, here is where he just doesn’t think things through – he’s a rubbish liar – not that long later I spoke to him and he said he was home (now, he couldn’t possibly have made that journey twice and visited someone in that short space of time). Within a few minutes he admitted that he was somewhere else, and it was actually a good thing he was doing (if i can definitely believe him). So, why lie? Why make up such a farfetched horrible story for no reason? If he didn’t want me to know what he was doing he could have just not said anything – I don’t know what he’s doing at every given second of the day.
I told him right then that it made me unhappy and feel worthless when he lied and that i feel I cant trust him i this way. I decided not to start a big argument about it because he’d been drinking a bit and nothing good ever comes of talking to him when he’s getting drunk, so I left it and carried on as normal that evening. In the morning when he was sober I wanted to talk about it and told him I don’t feel like I know him at all – I said how much I hate the lies. He got defensive and tried to make out I was being unreasonable in talking about it because I was fine last night. Then it managed to be my faults that got brought up and he was only trying to do a nice thing and protect me etc etc. He failed to see that lying and saying that a family member was actually in hospital (!) was wrong. I think he kind of apologised after and said he didn’t mean to hurt me (same old story) but he still tried for a while to make it all my fault.
Am I entitled to feel annoyed about this behaviour or am I being too hard on him? Is my reaction a ‘normal’ one? I’m just doubting myself now. Still, I think I did well not to talk to him about it when drunk and I don’t feel as bad as I normally would in this situation. It is his problem to sort out and as I am choosing to stay in this relationship, I have to choose what is acceptable. Things are moving forward for me, just still very slowly. Thanks for reading!
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Florida
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Addicts lie. It's what they do. You'll have to guage within yourself what level of betrayal is acceptablet to you, only you.
You seem to be reaching or searching for acceptance, validation or self justification from fellow SR's, and we're ALL with you that! We have all been lied to, either by an act of omission, or commission and it hurts.
I don't have to lie, the TRUTH is damaging enough".
You seem to be reaching or searching for acceptance, validation or self justification from fellow SR's, and we're ALL with you that! We have all been lied to, either by an act of omission, or commission and it hurts.
I don't have to lie, the TRUTH is damaging enough".
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hello iwant,
i think you are in a no-win situation. you have standards that are clearly not being lived up to.
this reminds me of a couple of my own abf stories. my addict went off the deep end last year and i got so many lies, many that also did not make sense (i mean, i understand the concept of telling a lie; we usually do it to not get "in trouble" but some of these had no rhyme or reason). i did not yet know, when the "not making ANY sense" part was becoming known to me. but then i discovered that he was using and even though it still didn't make sense (because i am a reasonable person) it now DOES make sense. because i've not been a drug user, i can't get inside their heads and understand what their foggy brains are like. but what i know, is that this is normal when they are using. i think they are so messed up they don't know night from day, up from down.
one time his daughter told me that he told her he sometimes tells me a lie to "not hurt my feelings".
now that he is clean and sober, i don't think he has lied to me for a couple of months. he did say recently that it took weeks just for the brain to start clearing up.
are you sure that your guy is only using alcohol? he is def. not thinking clearly, and even when sober he's not going to be thinking clearly either.
so....
you said you have made the decision to stay in the relationship. i think you need to accept that this is a character flaw that is not going to change (i mean, why would it?) and that you need to live with it. if you want to live with him.
i think you are in a no-win situation. you have standards that are clearly not being lived up to.
this reminds me of a couple of my own abf stories. my addict went off the deep end last year and i got so many lies, many that also did not make sense (i mean, i understand the concept of telling a lie; we usually do it to not get "in trouble" but some of these had no rhyme or reason). i did not yet know, when the "not making ANY sense" part was becoming known to me. but then i discovered that he was using and even though it still didn't make sense (because i am a reasonable person) it now DOES make sense. because i've not been a drug user, i can't get inside their heads and understand what their foggy brains are like. but what i know, is that this is normal when they are using. i think they are so messed up they don't know night from day, up from down.
one time his daughter told me that he told her he sometimes tells me a lie to "not hurt my feelings".
now that he is clean and sober, i don't think he has lied to me for a couple of months. he did say recently that it took weeks just for the brain to start clearing up.
are you sure that your guy is only using alcohol? he is def. not thinking clearly, and even when sober he's not going to be thinking clearly either.
so....
you said you have made the decision to stay in the relationship. i think you need to accept that this is a character flaw that is not going to change (i mean, why would it?) and that you need to live with it. if you want to live with him.
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 394
The lying, like the disease, only progresses.
My exAGF, her entire life is now a web of lies. Everything. I would catch her lying about one thing or another every single day. Now I just assume she's always lying and I end up being correct most of the time, or shocked that she actually told the truth about something.
It's all to keep playing the victim, it's all to keep having excuses as to why she doesn't have a job and sits around all day....to keep her folks enabling her and giving her money......but mostly it's to protect her addiction.
Now she lies about the company she keeps, namely hanging around all her user friends, her alcoholic friends, her ex boyfriend the addict, and to forge no relationship with regular normal people.
and if you call them on the lying, you get more lying. I called her on her drinking, as I could smell it on her, and she flew into a rage, so you can't win really. Then she would lie and say I was treating her poorly.....um....huh? For calling you on your drinking?
She can't even keep track of her own lies either......she's constantly talking about how she was raped, but the timeframe changes....was it recent? Was it when she was a child? Was it one of her father's friends? Was it one of her friends?
I still don't know, because it changes every other week. The story is constantly different, to the point that I haven't a clue if it's even real or whether it is entirely made up. Did it actually even happen? Beats me.
It might have, but I can't tell whether the trauma of the situation has made her memory of it partially suppressed or if it's the haze of all the booze and drugs.
It's staggering.
I tried, but I simply couldn't take it anymore.
My exAGF, her entire life is now a web of lies. Everything. I would catch her lying about one thing or another every single day. Now I just assume she's always lying and I end up being correct most of the time, or shocked that she actually told the truth about something.
It's all to keep playing the victim, it's all to keep having excuses as to why she doesn't have a job and sits around all day....to keep her folks enabling her and giving her money......but mostly it's to protect her addiction.
Now she lies about the company she keeps, namely hanging around all her user friends, her alcoholic friends, her ex boyfriend the addict, and to forge no relationship with regular normal people.
and if you call them on the lying, you get more lying. I called her on her drinking, as I could smell it on her, and she flew into a rage, so you can't win really. Then she would lie and say I was treating her poorly.....um....huh? For calling you on your drinking?
She can't even keep track of her own lies either......she's constantly talking about how she was raped, but the timeframe changes....was it recent? Was it when she was a child? Was it one of her father's friends? Was it one of her friends?
I still don't know, because it changes every other week. The story is constantly different, to the point that I haven't a clue if it's even real or whether it is entirely made up. Did it actually even happen? Beats me.
It might have, but I can't tell whether the trauma of the situation has made her memory of it partially suppressed or if it's the haze of all the booze and drugs.
It's staggering.
I tried, but I simply couldn't take it anymore.
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Join Date: Nov 2009
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I remember reading this a while ago, which I believe was written by the founder of SR. I know it helped me a lot and hope it might do the same for you. It shattered another piece of my illusion of control.
IMO, this is a boundary problem. Have you looked at the stickies about boundaries? Maybe if you figured out what was acceptable to you in a relationship and THEN choose whether or not to be in THIS relationship, you may be able to find more peace.
Do you go to al-anon or coda meetings? Getting a sponsor and working the steps has helped many people be able to see the forest for the trees.
What Addicts Do
My name's Jon. I'm an addict. And this is what addicts do. You cannot nor will not change my behavior. You cannot make me treat you better, let alone with any respect. All I care about, all I think about, is my needs and how to go about fufilling them. You are a tool to me, something to use. When I say I love you I am lying through my teeth, because love is impossible for someone in active addiction. I wouldn't be using if I loved myself, and since I don't, I cannot love you.
My feelings are so pushed down and numbed by my drugs that I could be considered sociopathic. I have no empathy for you or anyone else. It doesn't faze me that I hurt you, leave you hungry, lie to you, cheat on you and steal from you.
My behavior cannot and will not change until i make a decison to stop using/drinking and then follow it up with a plan of action.
And until I make that decsion, I will hurt you again and again and again.
Stop being surprised.
I am an addict. And that's what addicts do.
My name's Jon. I'm an addict. And this is what addicts do. You cannot nor will not change my behavior. You cannot make me treat you better, let alone with any respect. All I care about, all I think about, is my needs and how to go about fufilling them. You are a tool to me, something to use. When I say I love you I am lying through my teeth, because love is impossible for someone in active addiction. I wouldn't be using if I loved myself, and since I don't, I cannot love you.
My feelings are so pushed down and numbed by my drugs that I could be considered sociopathic. I have no empathy for you or anyone else. It doesn't faze me that I hurt you, leave you hungry, lie to you, cheat on you and steal from you.
My behavior cannot and will not change until i make a decison to stop using/drinking and then follow it up with a plan of action.
And until I make that decsion, I will hurt you again and again and again.
Stop being surprised.
I am an addict. And that's what addicts do.
IMO, this is a boundary problem. Have you looked at the stickies about boundaries? Maybe if you figured out what was acceptable to you in a relationship and THEN choose whether or not to be in THIS relationship, you may be able to find more peace.
Do you go to al-anon or coda meetings? Getting a sponsor and working the steps has helped many people be able to see the forest for the trees.
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Thanks, that letter is really interesting and helpful. I know my boundaries are all over the place. If he wasn't an alcoholic I would be able to clearly say 'no lying, total honesty, no disrespecting me' but i can't get that to work - i say it, he does it again, i say it again etc etc. His brain doesn't work like a normal person who would just say ok, sorry, i'll make that better. I'm having trouble thinking of any consequences of crossing my boundaries though - we don't live together so not seeing him or going home are the obvious ones. Not sure what else though.
oh, and i don't go to al-anon or coda meetings. I'm not sure where i stand on the whole HP, 12 step thing yet. I'm looking into it but i can't get my head round the HP part as I am an atheist and not sure how it can apply to me.
oh, and i don't go to al-anon or coda meetings. I'm not sure where i stand on the whole HP, 12 step thing yet. I'm looking into it but i can't get my head round the HP part as I am an atheist and not sure how it can apply to me.
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I don't think this case is a matter of "addicts lie". Not everything can be blamed on the booze, but there are times when a person is an addict because they have a personality disorder and drink to relieve that.
This case seems to be a case of gaslighting which is a form of psychological abuse.
This case seems to be a case of gaslighting which is a form of psychological abuse.
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
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"If he wasn't an alcoholic I would be able to"
Are you blaming perhaps?
"His brain doesn't work like a normal person who would just say ok, sorry, i'll make that better."
How does YOUR brain work?
Are you blaming perhaps?
"His brain doesn't work like a normal person who would just say ok, sorry, i'll make that better."
How does YOUR brain work?
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 545
Have you ever heard the saying "Don't go to the hardware store for bread"? It sounds to be that this is exactly what you are doing.
Wouldn't it be much easier to go to the bakery in the first place? i.e. instead of trying to change him, have a think about why you didn't find someone who already had the qualities you would like in a partner.
I agree with the not blaming everything on the booze. It's all about behavior for me, regardless of what causes it. I do remember that letter being very helpful when I was in a similar position to iwc, though, which is why it sprung to mind just now.
Wouldn't it be much easier to go to the bakery in the first place? i.e. instead of trying to change him, have a think about why you didn't find someone who already had the qualities you would like in a partner.
I agree with the not blaming everything on the booze. It's all about behavior for me, regardless of what causes it. I do remember that letter being very helpful when I was in a similar position to iwc, though, which is why it sprung to mind just now.
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Originally Posted by Insulated 
i want, in one of your earlier posts you declared that if he cheated on you the relationship would be over. infidelity is betrayal....just like lying is.
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so, to get my head around this - i am not being unreasonable, addicts lie, i either accept this and detach or get out.
For now, i'm choosing to stay so I guess i shouldn't moan about him then - if i know what i'm getting in to and choosing to stay in? That will just lead me to bottle it all up and feel even worse.
For now, i'm choosing to stay so I guess i shouldn't moan about him then - if i know what i'm getting in to and choosing to stay in? That will just lead me to bottle it all up and feel even worse.
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Moan all you like! Just don't be surprised if it doesn't change a thing. 
Personally, I am of the view that anyone can (as in "are able to") do anything they like. But there are always consequences to ones actions. The consequence for your bf due to him lying is that you moan at him. Seems like he's content with that, otherwise he would stop lying or dump you. And I am betting that it goves him a lovely excuse to drink, too.
A boundary around lying might be: I dislike lying and do not want it in my life. If I find out that someone has lied to me, I will.......(distance myself from them/cut them out of my life/fine them $100/blow a raspberry in their face). The consequence is whatever you need to protect yourself from their behavior, not to get them to change. And realising that last bit is what got me out of being stuck after a long time.
Personally, I am of the view that anyone can (as in "are able to") do anything they like. But there are always consequences to ones actions. The consequence for your bf due to him lying is that you moan at him. Seems like he's content with that, otherwise he would stop lying or dump you. And I am betting that it goves him a lovely excuse to drink, too.
A boundary around lying might be: I dislike lying and do not want it in my life. If I find out that someone has lied to me, I will.......(distance myself from them/cut them out of my life/fine them $100/blow a raspberry in their face). The consequence is whatever you need to protect yourself from their behavior, not to get them to change. And realising that last bit is what got me out of being stuck after a long time.
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In short, you are not unreasonable to be unhappy about him lying to you. I believe demanding that someone else changes for you is unreasonable, however.
In fact, if I think about how I treated my ex in the same scenario that you are talking about here (and in the same way, it seems) and reversed the roles, I would be upset and outraged if he demanded changes of me. And to be honest, I would think a little less of him for talking all that hot air and not doing anything in terms of conesquences. When I look back at my behavior, I am ashamed at my arrogance. Besides, it's not very loving behavior by someone who professed to love him very much. In recovery, I learned that I really didn't understand what love meant back then.
In fact, if I think about how I treated my ex in the same scenario that you are talking about here (and in the same way, it seems) and reversed the roles, I would be upset and outraged if he demanded changes of me. And to be honest, I would think a little less of him for talking all that hot air and not doing anything in terms of conesquences. When I look back at my behavior, I am ashamed at my arrogance. Besides, it's not very loving behavior by someone who professed to love him very much. In recovery, I learned that I really didn't understand what love meant back then.
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i guess letting go would be extremely painful and difficult. I'm scared that if i enforce the boundaries i want to that i'll lose him. It sounds pathetic. I don't want to lose him. I'm scared of that. I'm scared he'd go and sleep with someone else if we broke up. I'm scared that he'd get even worse with his drinking etc. I'm scared about the whole thing. I know it sounds so weak. and that annoys me.
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What do you love about him? How do you show that to him?
What do you love about yourself? And how do you show that?
Have you read The Road Less Travelled? Much food for thought about the meaning of love and the difference between that and dependence/enmeshment.
What do you love about yourself? And how do you show that?
Have you read The Road Less Travelled? Much food for thought about the meaning of love and the difference between that and dependence/enmeshment.
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bolina and anvilhead - thanks, i will give those questions some serious thought. I have done before but i might even write the things down and see if i can get some clarity. it probably is more bad than good. in some ways things have got worse for us and in others things are better. i'm so stuck in it all that i can't really see it for what it is anymore. I'm working on finding and improving me. I don't know if I can look at both issues at the same time. Maybe i need to wait until i've worked on me more, before i can look at our relationship clearly?
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