Mostly Watching From the Sidelines but am Feeling Really Sick
To thine own self be true.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
Thanks everybody. I think you are ALL right. Which brings me back to where I was originally, that is, I have to decide whether or not I want to continue to have this person in my life. I have never even DONE this kind of conscious evaluation of whether or not I want to continue a particular relationship before, so I am in unfamiliar territory.
I do not know if I am over-reacting to what occurred (I am fearful because this person forced her way into my home), whether or not it will occur again or was this some isolated incident, am I blowing things out of proportion worried the kids are going to be troubled teens (am I staying in the Present Moment?), being judgmental of the alcoholic STBXW of her behavior, or what? I try to consider what the alcoholic/addict is going through (her life is starting to fall down around her IMO, she has been separated from her husband for about a year, the house is close to foreclosure, you know the drill) but dammit she FORCED her way into my house.
I do not know what is the healthy balance for ME (am I overreacting, or how understanding should I be? I am NOT good at interpersonal relationships.)
Devon hit the nail right on the head for me: He has unresolved issues and I have placed myself in the middle of it. I want to make the healthiest decisions for my life, I want to be confident that I am staying in the Present Moment, and I want to learn from this experience the lesson it was intended to teach me.
Thank you all again.
I do not know if I am over-reacting to what occurred (I am fearful because this person forced her way into my home), whether or not it will occur again or was this some isolated incident, am I blowing things out of proportion worried the kids are going to be troubled teens (am I staying in the Present Moment?), being judgmental of the alcoholic STBXW of her behavior, or what? I try to consider what the alcoholic/addict is going through (her life is starting to fall down around her IMO, she has been separated from her husband for about a year, the house is close to foreclosure, you know the drill) but dammit she FORCED her way into my house.
I do not know what is the healthy balance for ME (am I overreacting, or how understanding should I be? I am NOT good at interpersonal relationships.)
Devon hit the nail right on the head for me: He has unresolved issues and I have placed myself in the middle of it. I want to make the healthiest decisions for my life, I want to be confident that I am staying in the Present Moment, and I want to learn from this experience the lesson it was intended to teach me.
Thank you all again.
To thine own self be true.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
That is a good question Tigger. I'm not sure why not, other than what I like about him, how we get along so well, how much we have in common, how much fun we have together, the fact that he is the first sober BF I have had since I got sober 14 years ago., etc seem to be moot points for me right now considering the fact that his children, and therefore his A&A-STBXW, are not going to go away.
Whenever anything negative happens, I tend to put everything on MYSELF. For example, when the boss yells at me, I think it is ME, my fault. I tend to automatically think there is something wrong with ME, and look inside for where I need to change my thinking. I also tend to always try to explain to (teach) the other person what they are doing to me (how much I hurt) and what they are doing to cause that hurt. I have the general sense that this is not healthy???
A friend of mine (who is in the Program and gives me feedback when I ask) told me this morning that I seek out broken people to help. Granted yes, I have done so in the past, but I have not seen how THIS man is broken and needs my help. I see that he is going through some very difficult times, very similar to what everyone on F&F posts who is married to an alcoholic or drug addict and is trying to get away from them, get divorced, go NC, work out visitation with kids, etc. I see what I think he needs to do, or could do, but I don't want to be involved in that. I am trying to mind my own business and I am doing very well with that except when the addict came to my house and forced her way in. The woman had AN HOUR while she drove to change her mind. An HOUR to TURN AROUND and go back home. This truly bothers me, especially given the fact that she does cocaine. I am now angry again. I much prefer angry than the depression I have been since Friday.
He has not asked for any help or shifted responsibility for anything onto me (I would not take it anyway). I am able to remain emotionally detached from all that is going on with him, live my life the way I have been living it (routine and boring
the way I like it), and not caretake and try to take over and make all his decisions for him and force him to do things my way as I have done in the past. I have gotten a little frustrated watching him stumble a bit but not angry or anything. I'm not trying to fix him; he doesn't appear to be someone who needs fixing. I'm trying to live the healthiest life I can and he brings me much joy and fun that I cannot bring to myself.
OK, sorry I think I was rambling. I don't know if I am doing this right (explaining what I need to explain in my posts).
Whenever anything negative happens, I tend to put everything on MYSELF. For example, when the boss yells at me, I think it is ME, my fault. I tend to automatically think there is something wrong with ME, and look inside for where I need to change my thinking. I also tend to always try to explain to (teach) the other person what they are doing to me (how much I hurt) and what they are doing to cause that hurt. I have the general sense that this is not healthy???
A friend of mine (who is in the Program and gives me feedback when I ask) told me this morning that I seek out broken people to help. Granted yes, I have done so in the past, but I have not seen how THIS man is broken and needs my help. I see that he is going through some very difficult times, very similar to what everyone on F&F posts who is married to an alcoholic or drug addict and is trying to get away from them, get divorced, go NC, work out visitation with kids, etc. I see what I think he needs to do, or could do, but I don't want to be involved in that. I am trying to mind my own business and I am doing very well with that except when the addict came to my house and forced her way in. The woman had AN HOUR while she drove to change her mind. An HOUR to TURN AROUND and go back home. This truly bothers me, especially given the fact that she does cocaine. I am now angry again. I much prefer angry than the depression I have been since Friday.
He has not asked for any help or shifted responsibility for anything onto me (I would not take it anyway). I am able to remain emotionally detached from all that is going on with him, live my life the way I have been living it (routine and boring
the way I like it), and not caretake and try to take over and make all his decisions for him and force him to do things my way as I have done in the past. I have gotten a little frustrated watching him stumble a bit but not angry or anything. I'm not trying to fix him; he doesn't appear to be someone who needs fixing. I'm trying to live the healthiest life I can and he brings me much joy and fun that I cannot bring to myself. OK, sorry I think I was rambling. I don't know if I am doing this right (explaining what I need to explain in my posts).
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
If this guy was healthy (in my opinion) he wouldn't get involved with you at this time. He has a lot on his plate and ia very unsettled. Sounds like he is looking for a rock to cling to right now.
Could you two just have bad timing? Could you just wait to get involved and see how you feel later on after he settles? Everything doesn't have to happen NOW.
Could you two just have bad timing? Could you just wait to get involved and see how you feel later on after he settles? Everything doesn't have to happen NOW.
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So, he would be a wonderful person to have a relationship with if it weren't for his crazy addict wife? Isn't that much like saying what a wonderful person the alcoholic is when he is sober?
L
L
To thine own self be true.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
He appears to be about as healthy as you and me. I am not a good judge of the health of other people, other than the obvious (don't drink or do drugs, etc). I don't always know what are the healthier choices even for me. I don't know how to evaluate others thoughts or reasons for doing things one way or another, except I CAN readily identify denial, blaming, shaming, guilting, things like that that I have learned in my own recovery. All I know is that my instincts about the alcoholic and her behavior tell me there is danger and I am fearful. My instincts also tell me that this man is a GOOD man, who cares about me, and has a tender heart.
You are right though, it may just be that I need to slow things down because of the timing, give EVERYONE time to adjust to what is happening. But the only one who appears to have a problem is the alcoholic and addicted STBXW, which makes no sense because ALL of her actions in the last year and longer indicate she does not care about the marriage, only about her drugs and booze, (see all the other posts on F&F for the usual indications that the alcoholic or drug addict does not care about the marriage or the person they are married to).
He is trying to negotiate with her succesfully for the divorce but it is impossible because she changes her mind about what she wants in the divorce on a weekly basis. One day she wants the two of them to be friends; the next day wailing, begging and crying for him to come back; the next day making threats, drunk, screaming, spitting, forcing her way into other people's homes; the next screaming and cussing at the small children, and leaving them to go get drunk, whatever. You all know the behavior I'm talking about. He is ready to move on and wants nothing to do with her, went NC, has been alone for a year, and we like eachother.
Do you think her behavior is going to be different three months or even three years from now? I doubt it very seriously. She does not WANT to be clean or sober.
You are right though, it may just be that I need to slow things down because of the timing, give EVERYONE time to adjust to what is happening. But the only one who appears to have a problem is the alcoholic and addicted STBXW, which makes no sense because ALL of her actions in the last year and longer indicate she does not care about the marriage, only about her drugs and booze, (see all the other posts on F&F for the usual indications that the alcoholic or drug addict does not care about the marriage or the person they are married to).
He is trying to negotiate with her succesfully for the divorce but it is impossible because she changes her mind about what she wants in the divorce on a weekly basis. One day she wants the two of them to be friends; the next day wailing, begging and crying for him to come back; the next day making threats, drunk, screaming, spitting, forcing her way into other people's homes; the next screaming and cussing at the small children, and leaving them to go get drunk, whatever. You all know the behavior I'm talking about. He is ready to move on and wants nothing to do with her, went NC, has been alone for a year, and we like eachother.
Do you think her behavior is going to be different three months or even three years from now? I doubt it very seriously. She does not WANT to be clean or sober.
To thine own self be true.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
Isn't that much like saying what a wonderful person the alcoholic is when he is sober?
I don't know HOW to evaluate any of this or even myself or my reactions, thoughts, reasonings, etc. It is ALL new to me. So thanks again for your feedback.
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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Having a relationship with this man brings a heavy load of baggage and drama into your life. You have to decide if you are okay with that.
It's okay to let him go, or even just take some time and space. Even if he is a good man with a good heart. There are plenty of good men with good hearts who don't come with tons of baggage and drama. It's okay to decide you don't want that in your life.
L
It's okay to let him go, or even just take some time and space. Even if he is a good man with a good heart. There are plenty of good men with good hearts who don't come with tons of baggage and drama. It's okay to decide you don't want that in your life.
L
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
He is ready to move on and wants nothing to do with her, went NC, has been alone for a year, and we like eachother.
He has kids with her. He has to deal with her until the kids are grown at least. He hasn't been alone because he is still married. I know what you are saying, but this guy has LOTS of baggage. Not everyone has that kind of baggage.
I am curretnly not involved with anyone because I am not ready. I tried several months ago and it was a mistake. To me I am being healthy by not bringing anyone into my inscurity right now. THis is just my opinion though.
Liking someone is great, but we are adults and there is more to a relationship than just liking someone.
He has kids with her. He has to deal with her until the kids are grown at least. He hasn't been alone because he is still married. I know what you are saying, but this guy has LOTS of baggage. Not everyone has that kind of baggage.
I am curretnly not involved with anyone because I am not ready. I tried several months ago and it was a mistake. To me I am being healthy by not bringing anyone into my inscurity right now. THis is just my opinion though.
Liking someone is great, but we are adults and there is more to a relationship than just liking someone.
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Manchester UK
Posts: 1,017
Learn2live, your original post was mostly about the small children.
If there were small children who were or may be in danger or being neglected in any way that i knew about i'd feel some responsibility to do something about it.
If they were happy healthy and safe though, I'd be happy to continue my life with a clear concience.
I wouldn't neccessarily have to become intimately involved with them either way.
If there were small children who were or may be in danger or being neglected in any way that i knew about i'd feel some responsibility to do something about it.
If they were happy healthy and safe though, I'd be happy to continue my life with a clear concience.
I wouldn't neccessarily have to become intimately involved with them either way.
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
My vote is with Miss Fixit.
I've been on my own for YEARS
and I am pretty sure
*I* would not want to test my own serenity
and capacity to stay centered
by entangling myself in a situation
where *I* can potentially be used
as a factor in someone else's karmic drama
regarding wife and children.
Regardless.
Becuse I am sure I would NOT be able to do it.
This man has a past intimacy with these individuals
that is not going to go away.
The kids are not going away.
The stbxwife is not going anyplace either.
I don't see any aspect of this
improving.
I think MissFixit said it quite well.
I've been on my own for YEARS
and I am pretty sure
*I* would not want to test my own serenity
and capacity to stay centered
by entangling myself in a situation
where *I* can potentially be used
as a factor in someone else's karmic drama
regarding wife and children.
Regardless.
Becuse I am sure I would NOT be able to do it.
This man has a past intimacy with these individuals
that is not going to go away.
The kids are not going away.
The stbxwife is not going anyplace either.
I don't see any aspect of this
improving.
I think MissFixit said it quite well.
To thine own self be true.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
I have also been on my own for years and I like it. I think that everyone should be alone for an extended period of time. But then again, I don't think ANYONE should get married until they are at least 40, so I'm not sure that I don't know what is best for him or anyone else for that matter. I cannot make those decisions for him, he has to. All I can do is evaluate myself and make the decisions that are best for me. I don't know how much drama this person is going to bring into my life; all I know is this ONE incident has been enough to shake me and I am not going to ignore that.
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: minneapolis, mn
Posts: 2,762
it seems as though one of your biggest questions, and places of fear, is whether or not this unstable woman will be showing up on your doorstep again. i think that is really scary to you. so....if someone said to you, "learn 2 live, i got out my crystal ball and well, it's not going to happen often, but yes, i do see a time or two here where she comes across your threshold and makes a scene. ooh, one of the times it looks like she is outside of your workplace" what would you then say? it is definitely a risk, and judging from the observation that she is not even close to getting clean and sober, yeah, well it's risky. here's the other thing i'm wondering. how on earth did she get your address? i realize you may not know the answer, and you don't have to answer it here, that's not the point. the point is that she went to some means to obtain your address and drive two hours so that she could wreak her havoc on your life.
To thine own self be true.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
she went to some means to obtain your address and drive two hours so that she could wreak her havoc on your life.
I am not so worried about her showing up at work, because there are people with guns there.
I am sure she googled me and that is how she got my address. What I discovered about myself from this whole weekend of working through this entire issue is: After this happened, I had the MEANS to get protection from the courts, but true to form, I placed teaching the alcoholic something FIRST, that is, before my own protection. In doing so I wound up hurting my own peace and serenity in the long run. I don't want to go into too much detail because of confidentiality reasons (they are still not divorced and I don't want to take the chance of messing anything up for him by being identified here) but suffice it to say that I made decisions about seeking my own protection based on delivering the "right" message to the alcoholic. It was stupid and in hindsight, I have learned my lesson (PUT MYSELF FIRST). Hopefully I have learned from this and will be able to put this into practice in the future because I see clearly that I have not done this in the past. I just gotta' figure out HOW.
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
What makes me even more fearful is that she does not SEE how her behavior would bother me (or anyone else she tramples on) because in her mind, she has an excuse, a scapegoat, someone else to blame, feels entitled, and all the rest of how they justify their behavior.
This is what addicts do.
It also worries me that she uses her children as spies and as excuses for her behavior so that she is shielded from the consequences of her actions. She lies to others, using the children as her excuse for her sick behavior (in this case, she believes that she drove to my house and forced her way in, for the benefit of her child). She also tells the children her demented side to things so that they are on her side, when the children shouldn't even KNOW what is happening in the first place. There's no adult left to believe her so she tells her small children because they will. Doing this also effectively turns them against their father. Sick.
This is tragic and so unfortunate for this family, but (I don't mean to sound cold) this ia NOT your problem. Getting involved with this chaos is like touching a hot stove. You see it is hot. You have touched a hot stove before and been burnt. Somewhere you know the outcome.
I am not so worried about her showing up at work, because there are people with guns there.
What if someone told you that this was part of the package for a man they were involved with? What would you advise them to do? His ex is his problem. Not yours. If being involved with him means dealing with her, then I might look inside of me to figure out why this seems acceptable. I am NOT trying to be dismissive, but you are worth more than this type of crap. Also, this man might be great, but my guess is that he has unresolved issues jumping from his addict wife into another relationship before the divorce papers are even signed. Your happiness and welfare are the MOST important items in this situation (from your or SR's end).
After this happened, I had the MEANS to get protection from the courts, but true to form, I placed teaching the alcoholic something FIRST, that is, before my own protection. In doing so I wound up hurting my own peace and serenity in the long run. I don't want to go into too much detail because of confidentiality reasons (they are still not divorced and I don't want to take the chance of messing anything up for him by being identified here) but suffice it to say that I made decisions about seeking my own protection based on delivering the "right" message to the alcoholic. It was stupid and in hindsight, I have learned my lesson (PUT MYSELF FIRST). Hopefully I have learned from this and will be able to put this into practice in the future because I see clearly that I have not done this in the past. I just gotta' figure out HOW.
How is putting yourself first possible in this senario? Aside from the short term fun of dating, love, etc...which wears off. Just read the anguish you have already experienced in thsi relationship and you are in the "perfect" peachy keen phase. Why do you want to take on this family? What is it within you that is willing to tolerate a chaotic situation? For me, I have put with with dysfunction because of lonliness, fear, low self-esteem, boredom, exhaustion, hopelessness and magical thinking.
This is what addicts do.
It also worries me that she uses her children as spies and as excuses for her behavior so that she is shielded from the consequences of her actions. She lies to others, using the children as her excuse for her sick behavior (in this case, she believes that she drove to my house and forced her way in, for the benefit of her child). She also tells the children her demented side to things so that they are on her side, when the children shouldn't even KNOW what is happening in the first place. There's no adult left to believe her so she tells her small children because they will. Doing this also effectively turns them against their father. Sick.
This is tragic and so unfortunate for this family, but (I don't mean to sound cold) this ia NOT your problem. Getting involved with this chaos is like touching a hot stove. You see it is hot. You have touched a hot stove before and been burnt. Somewhere you know the outcome.
I am not so worried about her showing up at work, because there are people with guns there.
What if someone told you that this was part of the package for a man they were involved with? What would you advise them to do? His ex is his problem. Not yours. If being involved with him means dealing with her, then I might look inside of me to figure out why this seems acceptable. I am NOT trying to be dismissive, but you are worth more than this type of crap. Also, this man might be great, but my guess is that he has unresolved issues jumping from his addict wife into another relationship before the divorce papers are even signed. Your happiness and welfare are the MOST important items in this situation (from your or SR's end).
After this happened, I had the MEANS to get protection from the courts, but true to form, I placed teaching the alcoholic something FIRST, that is, before my own protection. In doing so I wound up hurting my own peace and serenity in the long run. I don't want to go into too much detail because of confidentiality reasons (they are still not divorced and I don't want to take the chance of messing anything up for him by being identified here) but suffice it to say that I made decisions about seeking my own protection based on delivering the "right" message to the alcoholic. It was stupid and in hindsight, I have learned my lesson (PUT MYSELF FIRST). Hopefully I have learned from this and will be able to put this into practice in the future because I see clearly that I have not done this in the past. I just gotta' figure out HOW.
How is putting yourself first possible in this senario? Aside from the short term fun of dating, love, etc...which wears off. Just read the anguish you have already experienced in thsi relationship and you are in the "perfect" peachy keen phase. Why do you want to take on this family? What is it within you that is willing to tolerate a chaotic situation? For me, I have put with with dysfunction because of lonliness, fear, low self-esteem, boredom, exhaustion, hopelessness and magical thinking.
To thine own self be true.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
MissFixIt, I know, right? I agree with everything you are saying. I am trying to get to the bottom of it all (why I allow this kind of thing into my life). I can't answer the questions; I am so confused.
My friend says I ATTRACT this kind of thing to me. I just don't understand. What am I supposed to do, never be in a relationship ever again? Where is the joy in being alone the rest of my life?
I have had to reject this man this morning and I know I have hurt him and I HATE that. My head is swimming and I want to cry and it's so hard to focus.
My friend says I ATTRACT this kind of thing to me. I just don't understand. What am I supposed to do, never be in a relationship ever again? Where is the joy in being alone the rest of my life?
I have had to reject this man this morning and I know I have hurt him and I HATE that. My head is swimming and I want to cry and it's so hard to focus.
To thine own self be true.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
The part I really really really do not like about this whole thing now is that it is reminding me of myself and how I PROTECTED THE ABUSER for years and years and years as a child. I really don't want to think about this.
Now I feel like I've been forced into some alternate reality. So which is real? The last two months of fun and happiness with this new person in my life? Or THIS?
Yeah, so maybe THIS is the reason why I keep inviting abusive people into my life? To see what I am doing and learn how to, and practice, NOT protecting the abuser any more?
Now I feel like I've been forced into some alternate reality. So which is real? The last two months of fun and happiness with this new person in my life? Or THIS?
Yeah, so maybe THIS is the reason why I keep inviting abusive people into my life? To see what I am doing and learn how to, and practice, NOT protecting the abuser any more?
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Originally Posted by Learn2Live 
Now I feel like I've been forced into some alternate reality. So which is real? The last two months of fun and happiness with this new person in my life? Or THIS?
Yeah, so maybe THIS is the reason why I keep inviting abusive people into my life? To see what I am doing and learn how to, and practice, NOT protecting the abuser any more?
Yeah, so maybe THIS is the reason why I keep inviting abusive people into my life? To see what I am doing and learn how to, and practice, NOT protecting the abuser any more?
Just my opinion, but maybe that is the lesson. That some relationships only last a little while. And that when or if they become a threat to your well-being and serenity, it's time to let go. Knowing when to let go, and having the courage to do so, is a very powerful lesson. Don't discount that.
L
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
I am trying to get to the bottom of it all (why I allow this kind of thing into my life). I can't answer the questions; I am so confused.
If someone else was allowing this kind of thing into their life, what might you think the reason was? Is that something that you think might pertainto you too? Counseling might help you sort things out.
My friend says I ATTRACT this kind of thing to me. I just don't understand. What am I supposed to do, never be in a relationship ever again? Where is the joy in being alone the rest of my life?
I was told this too. I hated it. I felt kind of helpless at first, like I am doomed to attract this, so there is no other option for me. I had to mull it over for months until I realized that not everone I like is chaotic. I have had friends and co-workers who aren't. I like them. They like me. So why is it that only the most intimate people in my likfe are crazy? Could it be that am more comfortbale around them? They don't challenge or threaten me? I can think to myself that they won't leave me because I am not as bad as they are? One therapist told me to not use my family or origin as a benchmark for what to accept in my life. ANother told me not to go home again. I cannot change the crazies around me, but I can work on myself to not be one of them (at least not as much of one).
I have had to reject this man this morning and I know I have hurt him and I HATE that. My head is swimming and I want to cry and it's so hard to focus.
What happened this morning?
If someone else was allowing this kind of thing into their life, what might you think the reason was? Is that something that you think might pertainto you too? Counseling might help you sort things out.
My friend says I ATTRACT this kind of thing to me. I just don't understand. What am I supposed to do, never be in a relationship ever again? Where is the joy in being alone the rest of my life?
I was told this too. I hated it. I felt kind of helpless at first, like I am doomed to attract this, so there is no other option for me. I had to mull it over for months until I realized that not everone I like is chaotic. I have had friends and co-workers who aren't. I like them. They like me. So why is it that only the most intimate people in my likfe are crazy? Could it be that am more comfortbale around them? They don't challenge or threaten me? I can think to myself that they won't leave me because I am not as bad as they are? One therapist told me to not use my family or origin as a benchmark for what to accept in my life. ANother told me not to go home again. I cannot change the crazies around me, but I can work on myself to not be one of them (at least not as much of one).
I have had to reject this man this morning and I know I have hurt him and I HATE that. My head is swimming and I want to cry and it's so hard to focus.
What happened this morning?
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