Should I stay or should I go?

Old 02-15-2010, 10:31 PM
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Should I stay or should I go?

Thank goodness I found this forum!

My AB has been cutting way back on his drinking. But he doesn't seem interested in stopping completely. And although we've been living together for almost 3 years, I don't feel like he really wants me and my 2 boys living here. He is a lovely man, and we have a good solid foundation for a long-term partnership. But I cannot be partnered with an active alcoholic, no matter how little he drinks. It gets in the way of getting on with other things, like good parenting, and exercising, and trust.

I guess I thought he would stop. I never saw alcoholism before, until well after I had fallen in love with him. My own problems with anger certainly put me in the same place (addicted to anger, stopped 8 months ago). I feel like I'm moving on, and he is ... stagnating. He has health issues because of years of crazy hours and drinking. He sighs, and stays in bed, and wants sympathy. I want to exercise, and go on hikes, and start a business. He has 20 years of boxed up stuff that he won't get rid of, trash that needs to be hauled to the dump, abandoned projects, and lots of friends that drop by. He's a hoarder, I think, or almost.

I'm on my 4th partnership. I'm ashamed that I don't seem to have what it takes. It's like, after the first one, I deliberately chose people I couldn't partner with effectively: an abuser, a man with bipolar disorder, an alcoholic. Huh. I never thought of that before. My first husband was in a car accident that almost killed him, and the brain trauma changed his personality for the worse. I got out, but I guess the whole thing was more traumatic to me than I thought.

I want to be his partner, but I don't think I can. He's my best friend, ever. I don't even know how to start a conversation about this. I want to stay friends, but dissolve the partnership. I want a clean house, and a partner who doesn't think I'm 'silly' for keeping regular hours. In fact, I want him as a sober, thoughtful, involved partner. Or... not at all. I'm almost at the point that I would rather be alone than keep trying to bail out a sinking ship.

I think I answered my question. Hints as to making a Statement?

Thank you!

- Sylvie
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Old 02-15-2010, 11:04 PM
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You certainly deserve to keep healthy hours, healthy activities and a healthy home.
You are clearly not comfortable with it and if our own home isn't our sanctuary, where is?
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Old 02-16-2010, 06:49 AM
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I'm on my 4th partnership. I'm ashamed that I don't seem to have what it takes.
This stood out for me, Sylvie. Where is it written that we have to get all of this right when we're 18?

I went through four long-term (several-year) relationships before meeting the man I eventually married. From each one, I learned something about what was, and wasn't, acceptable to me.

Talking to a counselor -- which I'd highly recommend -- helped me to dig through my own patterns, figure out what I'd been doing, and what needs I'd been trying to fill, and how to meet those needs in healthier ways. I attribute my current ability to choose healthy relationships to that inner work done.

Have you done this? Would you consider it, if it would help you to make intelligent, rational decisions now and (if need be) in your next relationship? It was much easier to explain why I had to leave a relationship when I'd fully talked it through with a professional......clarity is so freeing and strengthening.
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Old 02-16-2010, 07:13 AM
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What about establishing a little home for yourself and your children?
With regular hours, clean surroundings, and time to focus on you after they go to bed?
Other than the clean surroundings (working on it!), that is what I have going, and it is simply lovely to have the evenings quiet once they all go to bed. I think the tranquility has contributed significantly to my growth and to a more restful state of mind.

Break up if you want to, or just move out and still see him if that's what you want.
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Old 02-16-2010, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Sylvie66 View Post
I want to be his partner, but I don't think I can.
That's because alcohol is his true partner, not you. Sad to hear, but true.

Originally Posted by Sylvie66 View Post
I want to stay friends, but dissolve the partnership. I want a clean house, and a partner who doesn't think I'm 'silly' for keeping regular hours. In fact, I want him as a sober, thoughtful, involved partner.
Just as you do not control his drinking, you cannot control the outcome of the relationship with him, only your side of things. You already know what you want (a clean house, a sober, thoughtful and involved partner); it seems you already know that he is not that person. The person he is RIGHT NOW is the only person he is willing to be. Do you want and love that person, completely, as he is today?

When you answer that, you can figure out what you want to do afterwards.
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Old 02-16-2010, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Sylvie66 View Post
Thank goodness I found this forum!

My AB has been cutting way back on his drinking. But he doesn't seem interested in stopping completely. And although we've been living together for almost 3 years, I don't feel like he really wants me and my 2 boys living here. He is a lovely man, and we have a good solid foundation for a long-term partnership. But I cannot be partnered with an active alcoholic, no matter how little he drinks. It gets in the way of getting on with other things, like good parenting, and exercising, and trust.

I guess I thought he would stop. I never saw alcoholism before, until well after I had fallen in love with him. My own problems with anger certainly put me in the same place (addicted to anger, stopped 8 months ago). I feel like I'm moving on, and he is ... stagnating. He has health issues because of years of crazy hours and drinking. He sighs, and stays in bed, and wants sympathy. I want to exercise, and go on hikes, and start a business. He has 20 years of boxed up stuff that he won't get rid of, trash that needs to be hauled to the dump, abandoned projects, and lots of friends that drop by. He's a hoarder, I think, or almost.

I'm on my 4th partnership. I'm ashamed that I don't seem to have what it takes. It's like, after the first one, I deliberately chose people I couldn't partner with effectively: an abuser, a man with bipolar disorder, an alcoholic. Huh. I never thought of that before. My first husband was in a car accident that almost killed him, and the brain trauma changed his personality for the worse. I got out, but I guess the whole thing was more traumatic to me than I thought.

I want to be his partner, but I don't think I can. He's my best friend, ever. I don't even know how to start a conversation about this. I want to stay friends, but dissolve the partnership. I want a clean house, and a partner who doesn't think I'm 'silly' for keeping regular hours. In fact, I want him as a sober, thoughtful, involved partner. Or... not at all. I'm almost at the point that I would rather be alone than keep trying to bail out a sinking ship.

I think I answered my question. Hints as to making a Statement?

Thank you!

- Sylvie
Wow, your story sounds a bit like mine. My last two relationships have been with men that had issues. One with Bipolar disorder and my current bf who is an alcoholic and doesnt seem to want to get his life in order.
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Old 02-16-2010, 09:42 AM
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I won't tell you how many failed partnerships I had.

It was painful, and a real eye-opener for me when I realized the one common denominator in all of them was me.

I kept repeating the same mistake over and over, only I rationalized each one because 'he' was different than the last one.

When my dry drunk ex-fiance walked out on me, leaving me and my youngest daughter penniless, I finally hit my codependent bottom.

I vowed to get dead serious about my recovery in codependency, and stay out of any sort of relationship during the process.

It's been almost 11 years now since I hit that bottom. I have learned so much about myself.

I've had a few dates here and there, and that's when I really saw the changes in me.

Today I am not in a relationship, not even dating as I'm a full-time college student, and that's where my priorities are.

I feel good about the things I am doing. I am perfectly content to not have a man in my life.

I never imagined in my wildest dreams I could live without a man in my life to validate me.

It's never too late to begin your journey of self!

:ghug3
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Old 02-16-2010, 08:46 PM
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Thank you all for your thoughtful responses! When I told him again that I don't want an alcoholic partner, he said I was calling him names. I think of it more like a diabetic who keeps eating cake!

He keeps turning around what I say. I want him to stay away from us when he's drinking, and he has. Except for yesterday, when he got drunk with his friends when the kids were here and I was at work. He claims he was 'barely drunk' - and was helping the kids with their chores, and hugging them, and making dinner for the family. I told him that all of that was negated by him being drunk. At which point he effectively assassinated my character. He got really really angry, and is still angry, because he thinks I'm seriously overreacting.

I told him tonight that maybe it would be better to live separately. When it was his idea last year, he thought it was a good idea. Now he says that I'm sneaky, and going to ruin our lives forever, and I didn't put in my whole self into the relationship.

I don't want to keep on like this, with me pushing for more, and him resenting me. I also don't want to leave when we've got such a good thing going. We are really good for each other like 85% of the time. The rest is not so hot. I feel like some leech that goes around inflicting my standards on people who were perfectly happy the way they were.

Would I be better on my own? Am I failure if I go solo? Am I a codependent twit if I stay? Basically, I'm still a mess.

Thanks again.
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Old 02-16-2010, 08:52 PM
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Your best friend assisinates your character? Where are the kids when this happens?
There used to be a lady here who would say..."you can call me names but it will be from the other side of the door."

Some one wiser than me will be along soon................
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Old 02-17-2010, 07:04 AM
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Hold the phone...he takes care of your children while INTOXICATED, he accuses you of calling him names, of not putting your entire self into the relationship, of overreacting (it's called blameshifting btw), and you feel that you have "got such a good thing going" ?

Can I gently point out that this situation doesn't seem to me like a "good thing"? Perhaps there's some wishful thinking at work here.

"Alcoholic" is only a dirty word in his mind, which is why he's supposedly insulted that you used that term to describe him. Perhaps he's feeling some amount of shame for his behaviour and doesn't like it when you shine the light of day on his dark grubby corners.

In any case, it doesn't matter if he's "an alcoholic" or a pink-spotted cow...the issue here is that you have a problem with his drinking. Yes? And he is unwilling to change his habits, yes? Also, nothing you can do or say will change his drinking...so it's now up to you to decide what YOU want to do.

I feel like some leech that goes around inflicting my standards on people who were perfectly happy the way they were.

This statement sounds like a reiteration of what he told you you were. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having boundaries and wanting them respected. This is part of a *normal* relationship. Be kind to yourself; you're being honest about what you want and he's just slamming you down because you are now refusing to play the role he scripted for you (the good girlfriend who keeps her mouth shut).

Finally, if he was so "perfectly happy" before you came along, then he can go on being "perfectly happy" all by his lonesome, now can't he?
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Old 02-17-2010, 07:27 AM
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Your children deserve to be in a healthy home. If, the b/f was a social drinker it'd be different. You're going to have hard enough time raising them with the drugs and alcohol being presented to them by peers as it is!
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Old 02-17-2010, 07:06 PM
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Amen! CaptainZing!
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Old 02-17-2010, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Sylvie66 View Post
I feel like some leech that goes around inflicting my standards on people who were perfectly happy the way they were.

Would I be better on my own? Am I failure if I go solo? Am I a codependent twit if I stay? Basically, I'm still a mess.
there is a key point in the first quoted sentence: you can't really and truly inflict your standards on other adult people. you can tell them what your standards are (so you believe) and they get to decide whether or not to live up to them. so far, you have admittedly been "pushing" him. so, really, there's not much successful inflicting going on.

i get what you're saying, though. this is the kind of mind game we go through. we start questioning ourselves, when we're the ones being reasonable, responsible and wanting a healthier lifestyle.

better on your own - only you can decide. and then, well, you might be wrong. we have to go forward in faith.

failure to go solo - huh? which play book are you reading?

codependent - maybe. twit, nope. keep reading here on s/r, and see how many people seem to have their s%!t together. then ask them if they were ever that "twit". we know what you're wrestling with. :ghug3
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Old 02-18-2010, 02:38 AM
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Hello from a past twit.

You know that game, of "three in the bed, and the middle one said, "roll over". So they all rolled over and 1 fell out".

Well when alcohol is involved in a relationship, life becomes like that game. When the A and his drink "roll over", guess who it is that falls out?

I have fallen out so darn often, I still have the bruises from hitting the floor. I kept on climbing back into bed, only to keep hitting the deck.

I'd whinge, moan, bellow, plead and go thru all I knew to stop being turfed out of bed, and nothing worked.

It continued....climb in...roll over....bump...ouch. Repeat every night.

Took years to discover that the way not to be thrown out of bed was NOT to get into it in the first place. To go get a bed of my own, and let A and his "lover", (beer) have their bed to themselves. Haven't found myself on the floor since I did that.

In other words, remove myself from the situation I hated, and be where I was happy and safe, where my boundaries weren't crossed and I was not hassled, blamed, abused and insulted by a drunk.

As for my kids, they were adults when I left my late XAH, so I didn't have the responsibility of protecting them from some drunk's offensive words or behavior, but I know from other events in our life that, I would have torn anyone apart if they caused my kids any distress.

This man is not a role model for your kids, or a partner for you, as he is far too much a self centred drinker. How much of that "Good" 85% of the time together, is because you do all you can to make him happy and how much of it is his effort?

I hope you soon decide to stop climbing back into the bed.

God bless
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Old 02-18-2010, 09:36 AM
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Thank you all so much!!! It is wonderful and a tremendous help to me to hear your calm, rational thoughts on this! You bring tears of relief to me - thank you!

I just think he truly doesn't get it – I'm the only one he knows who doesn't tolerate drinking or drunkenness. Other people, friends and family, at least condone, and at worst, encourage it as a normal, fun, relaxing thing to do. He is Jekyll and Hyde, and he thinks I'm exaggerating.

Well, and maybe I am. Coming from a lifetime where I rarely saw anyone drunk, and never anyone I respected or was related to.... I can see how he would see me as overreacting. The point is, I don't think I'm overreacting.

He told me he wants unconditional love, and for me to never leave him. I would as soon leave him as I would abandon one of the children. That doesn't mean that I'll be able to live with him being an active alcoholic. It's like telling a teenager he couldn't live in a house because he disobeyed the rules about 'no drugs' – it doesn't mean that we don't love him. We do love him; we just won't have a pot smoker living in the house.

It rips me up that he's killing himself with drinking. I have expectations of a better life, but it involves either him not drinking, ever, or me moving out. Well, alright. I'll make plans to do that, methodically and mindfully. And in the meantime.... work on having the best possible relationship with him. Because if he does stop drinking, that's what we'll have to fall into. And if he doesn't, I'll be able to leave in a better financial place, knowing that I did the best I could.

Thank you. I missed the last al-anon meeting. There's one tomorrow at 7am that I may try to get to. (Otherwise, I have to either wait or travel.) I feel tremendously calm and ... empowered. A much, much better place to be. Thank you all again for walking me through to clearness.

- Sylvie
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Old 02-18-2010, 10:45 AM
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I had to stop thinking of the alcoholic/addict as a teenager. I had to stop the thinking "he is the same age emotionally as he was when he started drinking/drugging." Because those are just EXCUSES. He is NOT a teenager, he is a GROWN MAN. This is reality.

I had to sit down and, separate and apart from every thought I had of and about HIM, answer the question for myself, "What do I want in a romantic relationship?" I had to take it down to the basics. One of my wants was, "I want a relationship with an emotionally mature person. The point is, separating myself from HIM enough to be able to sit down and write out what I want for MY life helped me to put the relationship with the alcoholic/addict in really good perspective. He either met the requirement or he didn't. I had to take my FEELINGS out of the equation and be objective about the whole thing. I know, doesn't sound very romantic but it worked. (This also required I let go of all the magical thinking like we were fate, destiny, soulmates, meant to be together, best friends, etc).

When they say, "I want someone to love me for who I am" and "I want to be loved unconditionally" that is BABY-TALK. You are not his mommy and he is not a helpless infant who requires unconditional love. IMO, unconditional love serves a function for the survival of an INFANT; and is not necessary for the survival or well-being of an adult. What he is saying to you, in reality, is that he wants to be able to do whatever he wants to do, when he wants to do it, and you keep supporting him the way you always have. The head-game he is trying to use on you is to point his finger at you: "You don't REALLY love me," or to stand in judgment of your quality of love "Your love is not unconditional and therefore is not good enough." All that does is keep us MIRED in it, keep us REACTING, riding the frickin' rollercoaster.

I'm so glad you are getting off the rollercoaster, seeing the reality of what he has been doing. Good for you!! Thanks for sharing.
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Old 02-18-2010, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Freedom1990 View Post
I won't tell you how many failed partnerships I had.

It was painful, and a real eye-opener for me when I realized the one common denominator in all of them was me.
LOL! Thanks!
For me, it has been that I got good at the list of what I wanted in a partner, and have found better and better partners. I just didn't make the list of what I NEEDED and what I WOULD NOT TOLERATE.
Also, that I tended to give up my stand if opposed. (Where's the assertiveness training when you need it? Oh yea, right here on SR!)
So when my needs conflicted with their needs/wants...well, you know the story.
But, I am LEARNING! WOOHOO!

MY NEEDS MATTER!

WOOHOO!

And they matter regardless of if others :
* oppose
* stonewall
* complain
* blame
* get mad
* feel hurt
* feel disappointed
* feel "devastated"
* get angry
* try to distract me
* try to ignore them
* get depressed
* walk out dramatically
* try to make me feel bad, guilty, sad, mad, etc.
and on and on and on.

Doesn't matter. 'Cuz I have a strong center in MYSELF and I know that I'm okay and I matter and my needs matter.
Nothing - and I mean nothing - can get in the way of my honoring myself!!

WOOHOO!!
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