iwantcontrol

I seem to have got myself into an impossible situation again. I’m actually really worried about me, not just ABF anymore. I was so full of hope for last week, trying to make it a ‘me’ week and trying to detach etc, but it all went wrong, very badly wrong. I feel like I’m trapped and i can’t see how to make things any better. The thing that makes it even more confusing is that after a really awful end of the week, we had a great weekend together, but today I feel miserable and hopeless. I don’t understand it and i’m beginning to wonder whether i might actually be depressed myself.

I need to bounce back from my failure of last week, but at the moment the only way I feel any better is when he is not drinking and we are together. I know I can’t live like that but I can’t work out how to change things. The fact that we enjoyed a successful weekend together just makes it worse when he drinks again. I’ve brought up the subject of what he is going to do to stop drinking so many times and still he relies purely on willpower and lasts 2-3days each time. He still isn’t seeking other help, but at least i’m realising nothing i say makes any difference. I’m stuck in thinking that the only way i’ll feel better is if he stops drinking. I feel like i’ve taken such a huge step backwards and have even gone further back than where i started.

I hardly slept last night and i think that was through the guilt of going along with us drinking together yesterday. I feel so stupid and annoyed with myself – it was his idea and i think it was probably just so he could drink rather than for valentines. Don’t get me wrong, i enjoyed it at the time but then i felt a bit ill (although we didn’t have that much) and couldn’t sleep and felt guilty. Beginning to get a tiny glimpse of how he might feel everytime he drinks when he shouldn’t – I’m glad i’m not an A, there’s no way i could deal with the guilt!
So I suppose I just need to dust myself off and start all over again, but where do i start? How can I make any headway? I’m probably just over reacting as usual and i doubt i’m really depressed myself, but i feel so hopeless. If i’m totally honest with you, this is the true situation and how I feel:

- I love him so much and want us to work
- I’d do anything to make us work
- I finally realise that he is not in recovery right now – he is actively drinking and i don’t think he is seriously seeking proper help. Trying not to drink and being sober for 2-3 days at a time is not being in recovery.
- I’m really scared about my own future and our future together – i need him to be working towards recovery to feel any hope for us
- I know he loves me and wants us to be together and have a family etc
- He knows things can’t continue like this and i think he knows that i’ll eventually have to leave him if it does.
- He doesn’t want to go to rehab or a day program, or AA meetings (he really doesn’t get on with their approach) – so what’s left as an option?
- I don’t think abstinence forever is his goal – he thinks he can drinking ‘normally’ again.
- I don’t want to leave him, but I want things to change
- I feel stuck in my own patterns of behaviour around his drinking – I don’t know the best approach and i’m struggling.
- I’ve done lots of reading on co-dependency and alcoholism and the future looks bleak if nothing changes

Sorry to go on but i needed to get that all out and admit i failed last week. Any constructive advice or criticism would be welcomed. Thanks.

MissFixit

Hi,

So what are you going to do to take care of yourself that has nothing to do with him?

Here's my take:

- I love him so much and want us to work
Do you love yourself enough to remove yourself from an unhealthy situation?

- I’d do anything to make us work
You doing something isn't the issue. He has to do what he needs to do to make you two work. Right now, he isn't willing to do that. You are not in charge of him or in control of him. Relationships take 2 willing parties.

- I finally realise that he is not in recovery right now – he is actively drinking and i don’t think he is seriously seeking proper help. Trying not to drink and being sober for 2-3 days at a time is not being in recovery.
Since you cannot control him, what can you do for yourself.

- I’m really scared about my own future and our future together – i need him to be working towards recovery to feel any hope for us
What is your fear? How can you take charge of your own life to not be scared?

- I know he loves me and wants us to be together and have a family etc
Right now, he loves alcohol more.

- He knows things can’t continue like this and i think he knows that i’ll eventually have to leave him if it does.
Then what can you do to prepare for the inevitable? How long are you willing to ride the rollercoaster with him? Do you have boundaries in place?

- He doesn’t want to go to rehab or a day program, or AA meetings (he really doesn’t get on with their approach) – so what’s left as an option?
That is his problem, not yours. You cannot get him sober or fix this for him. Not amount of nagging or manipulating will get through to him. He has to want it for himself.

- I don’t think abstinence forever is his goal – he thinks he can drinking ‘normally’ again.
How does this relate to you?

- I don’t want to leave him, but I want things to change
Nothing changes if nothing changes. What can you do for yourself?

- I feel stuck in my own patterns of behaviour around his drinking – I don’t know the best approach and i’m struggling.
BEst approach to what? Read up on setting boundaries. Set them. His drinking is none of your business. If you have told him your boundaries and he crosses them, how will you back it up?

- I’ve done lots of reading on co-dependency and alcoholism and the future looks bleak if nothing changes
I agree. So what can you do for yourself?

Carol Star

Been there, done that, have the t-shirt in 4 colors. I think you feel uneasy because at some level you are going against yourself, your integrity, or your gut. It took me several years and consequences to be able to leave. Alanon will help you. He is your drug. He has lots of excuses. He hasn't accepted he is an alcoholic. He can't control it. One is too many and 50 is not enough.

iwantcontrol

It was successful because on Saturday he made it to my house on time without drinking beforehand (sounds minor but this hasn’t happened for a long time), we spent the day together doing what we’d planned, I saw my friends that evening without him and wasn’t hassling him on what he was up to all evening, Sunday he cooked a wonderful valentines meal for me and i didn’t have to lift a finger. The wine was the only problem – he bought it and poured me a glass without asking if i wanted any (before he bought it i would have said no) and although I probably drank slightly more than him and enjoyed relaxing with a drink for a change, I felt uncomfortable that he was drinking.

For some reason, i have some to believe that if he changes i’ll be ok. Maybe that is because it is easier than me having to take responsibility for my own problems and co-dependency behaviours – I am happy-ish with myself and the person I am, although I have never had a great deal of confidence.

what if........you put effort into your own growth? what if........you worked on changing the one person you can? YOU.
I do, but then something happens with him and i end up pushing that aside to react to the new problem. But even so, his problems are still there – focusing on me doesn’t change the fact that alcoholism is present.

what if........you learned the fine art of being your own best friend? comfortable in your own skin? at peace in your own company?
As I said, i think i am comfortable in my own skin and am used to spending time alone. I have no problem with doing that and i’d like to feel i could do that more but when I do, I spend the whole time worrying about him and if he is drinking – I can’t relax and enjoy it. His drinking seems to have consumed everything for me and i cant shut it out.

Do you love yourself enough to remove yourself from an unhealthy situation?
Clearly not, but it is me that is making the situation more unhealthy than it needs to be, by my reactions.

What is your fear? How can you take charge of your own life to not be scared?
I’m scared of everything – him never recovering and me having to leave and maybe never having a family, or me staying with him even if he never recovers and being in a miserable relationship for years. I guess I can just make sure I am the best person I can be, try not to stop doing things I want to do because of him, and give him the space to get better (and the knowledge that if he doesn’t I wont be around)

Then what can you do to prepare for the inevitable? How long are you willing to ride the rollercoaster with him? Do you have boundaries in place?
Again, just be the best I can and work on myself. I am willing to stay with him all the while he is doing something to get better. Boundaries have been shot to pieces last week, and need to be reassessed and sorted out.

If you have told him your boundaries and he crosses them, how will you back it up?
That I don’t know.

coffeedrinker

oh, iwant,

i can identify with a lot of your post.

this man is most surely your d.o.c. (as mine has been/is to me...arrgg)
i have been in alanon for over 10 years! i thought i had it licked! then it took some big bumps in my current relationship for me to realize that i am still hooked and the ups and downs continue to shape my moods and waking hours. the good news, is that is DOES get better. i think that when we continue to take the hit, to get the "fix" it's just like how the drug keeps them hooked. the problem is, we can't abstain from human beings! but, we can learn to abstain from toxic ones.

you did something in conflict with your value system last weekend. (drinking w/him). you went against your better judgement because you wanted him so badly. i just realized that this isn't much different, in theory, than them doing the same conflicting things to get their fix. on a different level, of course! guilt is there to help us make future decisions, and to learn. DON'T BEAT YOURSELF UP!! learn from it.

one other things i've learned about myself, is that there's something about that roller coaster thing. we swear we can't go through more of the bad times, but the good times are intoxicating. oh, there's the word again: toxic.

you are doing what is needed: recognizing, getting other people's perspectives, learning. let it soak it. i suspect decisions will be coming soon.

keithj

Wow, it's spooky how much your description matches the alcoholic's relationship with booze. That insane desire to have control over the object of our obsession. If I substitute the word booze for 'him', you've described the coutnless times I swore off for good, only to relapse, get remorseful, swear off for good, etc. Locked in that cycle, trying to get some control over it.

I had to take some serious action to overcome the object of my obsession. I had to have spiritual help, and I had to accept that help. That same spiritual help is available to the Al-Anon as well as the alkie.

iwantcontrol

Thanks coffeedrinker, your post really helps. Maybe I can just take a day or 2 to think about things and reassess the situation – you’re right, I don’t need to have it all figured out this second. It is just like an addiction and that makes me think i can’t always expect so much of him when i’m not doing everything i can to stop my own addiction to him and this way of living. Its just so frustrating because i thought i was getting somewhere a few weeks ago and i’ve had to realise i wasn’t, i was still relying on him and his behaviour.

Insulated

This was only one weekend, and it's a good one. There are 51 more in a year. Could you date someone else? Is there an agreement to exclusivity on both parts or have you discussed it all?

iwantcontrol

definitely exclusive to each other - that wouldn't even be a question. as far as i'm concerned if he cheats on me it is over.

stella27

I think you are being too hard on yourself about your slip-ups and weaknesses. I see so much self-awareness blossoming in you that wasn't there a month ago, and even though you are struggling with some big decisions and revelations, you seem to be learning an awful lot.

You are beginning to see that being with him is a choice you are making. It's not "LOVE" dragging you around on a leash. It's you deciding what you want in YOUR life.

You seem to be doing so much better with your self-examination, in my opinion.

Insulated

You didn't fail. there's no sure way to do this dance. it's nutz. it sucks you in and makes you bend up like a pretzel to get things to work. don't be too hard on yourself, use it as a learning curve.

lc2846

Are you OK with him drinking at all? Or does past experience tell you that the only way the two of you can be together is if he embraces sobriety (which he's not doing)? I'm reading between the lines of your posts that you think you might be asking too much of him to expect abstinence, and that maybe his moderate drinking should be OK with you, because he thinks it should.

The thing with alcoholics is that moderation doesn't work. I'd even go so far to say that if someone can moderate successfully, they aren't alcoholic to begin with. I just got off the merry-go-round of five years of my ABF pretending to drink moderately. It worked like this: ABF gets drunk around me. Next morning I call him out on it and he swears he doesn't need to abstain and can drink moderately. Keeps getting drunk behind my back. I ask him if he's moderating successfully and he says "Oh yeah." After a couple of months he's back to getting drunk in front of me, and all the sad behavior of active alcoholics (not paying bills, neglecting personal hygiene, losing a good job, sleeping till noon and heading for the bar at 2, etc. etc.). Rinse and repeat, and after five years of it I was just about insane, because of the reality gap between what I could see with my own eyes and what he was telling me. And this was a nonviolent, nonabusive relationship that was good in every other way except the beer and wine.

I suspect he's hit his bottom, because after he got a DUI a few weeks ago and spent the night in jail, he came to me (that's important) and said, "I was wrong. I can't moderate. I'm going to have to stay sober the rest of my life, one day at a time." He's abstained for more than two weeks now, which is longer than I've ever seen him do it. I'm cautiously optimistic--he has a long, difficult road ahead of him. If he screws up, I walk--I've been through too much already.

That's my story of an alcoholic trying to moderate his drinking.

JenT1968

all of this is getting somewhere. You don't have to get this all worked out today. When I first came here in anguish, and pain and despair, asking desperate questions, people wrote replies to me and although I am quite a bright gal, and I understood every single word in a sentence, there was no sense coming through. People answered questions that I didn't ask, "ignored" the bulk of what I said and picked on one off-the-cuff remark. For me a complete about turn in everything I "knew" was required, and whilst that was happening, the world didn't stop, I still had to work, raise a child, breathe, eat, sleep. I learned and evaluated at exactly the pace I could cope with. Sssssssllllllloooooooowwwww though that was.

There are things I wish I knew before that would have saved me pain, but when people said them I wasn't being obstinate or difficult or in denial (which asumes knowledge and shoving it away somewhere) I had no way of hearing them. ANd often now when I think I understand something inside out, someone writes something and I see a different meaning.

take some time. remember you are not responsible for him or his drinking: he set you up on valentine's, he brought the alcohol with him and poured you a glass knowing that you have issues with his drinking. which leds to a number of possible scenarios.

these are the two most likely (in my experience with someone who would periodically say he was giving up drinking in order to shut me up).

you either a) go along with it so as not to ruin a nice day and spoil the atmosphere: he gets to drink without censure, or b) you say something about it, he accuses you of being a spoilsport, you have a fight? he leaves/stays and sulks: he is "justified" in drinking because you are so mean.

either way he drinks, this time you decided to enjoy yourself? no problem, a different time you decide to call him on it, no problem: either way he is still an alcoholic, still drinking. you can't change that. ever.

coffeedrinker

I just had to comment on this. I understand the reasoning behind the suggestion, but I think that the healthiest thing to do when a serious relationship ends, is to take time off for yourself without another person in the mix. Reflect on what the problems were, heal yourself, get healthier so that when it is time to re-enter the dating scene, you have better odds.

CAPTAINZING2000

You're answering yourself. You said, you know he's not actively doing anything about his drinking problem and you see no hope.

I have to say the serenity prayer a lot over things that can baffle me. Having wisdom to know what I can change and what, I'm willing to accept can be overwhelming.

meonlyme

Wendy Piersall wrote this, perhaps it may help you in this situation


Gentle Hugs for you and hug yourself too

ONLY YOU CAN DECIDE WHEN IT IS THE RIGHT TIME
TO LEAVE AN ALCOHOLIC SPOUSE.

Perhaps these are some questions you might want to ask yourself. These are not easy questions. And don’t bother taking them on unless you are willing to give yourself honest answers. Set aside some time away from your home environment in order to give these questions your full attention, because you will likely get a bit emotional as you uncover your own truths:

■What is the cost of my leaving this relationship?
■How will this decision affect others?
■What will I leave behind?
■What will I have to let go of?
■What will I have to face within myself once I am gone?
■What is the cost of my staying in this relationship?
■Who else is being hurt by staying in this alcoholic environment?
■What will happen to my self-worth, my health, and my happiness if I continue on this path for another 5 years? Another 10 years? Another 20?
■What am I teaching my children by staying in this relationship?
■What are the benefits of staying in this relationship?
■I’m still here for a reason – what am I getting out of staying here?
■Will these benefits continue for the rest of our lives together, or will they change with time?
■Do these benefits outweigh the costs? Yes or No?
■What are the benefits of leaving this relationship?
■What will I be able to achieve if I end this relationship now?
■How will I be living my life differently in 5 years if I end this relationship now? 10 years? 20?
■Do these benefits outweigh the costs? Yes or No

Additionally, I would encourage you to take this decision seriously. I don’t know any person who has not ‘threatened to leave’ an alcoholic spouse as a leverage chip to try and get their spouse sober.

The problem is with the word “threaten”. If you say you will leave, yet don’t, you are reinforcing the fact that you think it is OK that they continue to drink.

So once you make your decision, you must also be willing to stick to it. And if you aren’t, then you aren’t in a position to make your ‘half decision’ a bargaining chip.

Remember also, if you decide to stay, then you must also take responsibility for that. You know at this point what staying means.

I can tell you this:

Making the decision to leave my husband was the ONLY THING that could have happened in his life for him to make the decision to get sober. I had to take a huge risk, knowing full well that I could have ended up single, or he could have been lying to me once again. So by sticking to my guns, in the end, I got what I wanted most of all. But I had to be willing to let that all go to raise my standards.

This may or may not be what happens with you. Your spouse may decide to continue to drink. You must be willing to face that reality if you are indeed going to decide to stick to your guns, too.
In the end, I did what I will tell you to do:

Follow your heart.

Only you know what is right for you – and your heart is where you will find that answer. I can say from personal experience that following your heart is not always easy, nor does it feel very good at times.

But in the end, it will always lead you in the right direction. Always. And it will feel good with time, and with continued listening. I can promise you this.

Wendy Piersall, from "When is it Time to Leave an Alcoholic?" at WendyPiersall.com

CAPTAINZING2000

Speaking as an alcoholic, he's already cheating on you. An alcoholic will pick the drink over everything else.

MissFixit

For some reason, i have some to believe that if he changes i’ll be ok.
I had this same belief too. I didn't understand that it is an unhealthy mindset that will lead you to a world of pain. As adults we are responsible for ourselves. Establishing interests outside of him will help you to not be so dependent.

what if........you put effort into your own growth? what if........you worked on changing the one person you can? YOU.
I do, but then something happens with him and i end up pushing that aside to react to the new problem. But even so, his problems are still there – focusing on me doesn’t change the fact that alcoholism is present.
Then you are not focused on you. His alcoholism isn't about you. It isn't related to you. It has nothing to do with you. You have a choice to take care of yourself first or not. That means that his alcohol issues are do not require your reaction. Set a boundary and enforce it if he crosses it.

what if........you learned the fine art of being your own best friend? comfortable in your own skin? at peace in your own company?
As I said, i think i am comfortable in my own skin and am used to spending time alone. I have no problem with doing that and i’d like to feel i could do that more but when I do, I spend the whole time worrying about him and if he is drinking – I can’t relax and enjoy it. His drinking seems to have consumed everything for me and i cant shut it out.
Establishing a life outside of him is helpful. You don't have control of him, but you do have control of you. When you are obsessing, then maybe develop coping strategies to deal with that. Al anon will help.

Do you love yourself enough to remove yourself from an unhealthy situation?
Clearly not, but it is me that is making the situation more unhealthy than it needs to be, by my reactions.
The situation is unhealthy because it is between an active A and a person who believes that she is dependent on him. Knowing that you cannot change him. How can you change you?

What is your fear? How can you take charge of your own life to not be scared?
I’m scared of everything – him never recovering and me having to leave and maybe never having a family, or me staying with him even if he never recovers and being in a miserable relationship for years. I guess I can just make sure I am the best person I can be, try not to stop doing things I want to do because of him, and give him the space to get better (and the knowledge that if he doesn’t I wont be around)
What are YOUR priorities in life? If the options were sick him or healthy other man who you could have a healthy family with, what would you choose? You love him, but he is sick and isn't taking care of himself. You have a choice in this. Each day you spend with unhealthy him is a day not working towards being with a healthy other man. (Just another way to see it).

Then what can you do to prepare for the inevitable? How long are you willing to ride the rollercoaster with him? Do you have boundaries in place?
Again, just be the best I can and work on myself. I am willing to stay with him all the while he is doing something to get better. Boundaries have been shot to pieces last week, and need to be reassessed and sorted out.
He is doing nothing to get better right now and you are staying with him. You are crossing your own boundary. Boundaries have to be enforced otherwise there is no point in them.

If you have told him your boundaries and he crosses them, how will you back it up?
That I don’t know.
This sounds like a good place to start. There was a thread on boundary setting last month or week, I am not sure. But, setting boundaries and following through might really help you. You might find that things become easier after you do that.

Insulated

agreeing with captianzing. When he drinks, he chooses alcohol over you which is a rude form of infidelity imo.

I know you said that your ABF has two very different personalities drinking vs sober. What are the differences? Does his demeanor change, attitude, actions, personality change in a way that is favorable or unfavorable. Is this what has you scared? the alcohol personality?

LaTeeDa

I spent a good part of my life struggling because I hadn't yet learned to pay attention. Life is a patient teacher. She keeps giving us the lesson until we learn it. I was a very slow learner.

You say you want a family. You want to have children. I would say that the universe is sending you some very clear signals that this man isn't able to help you toward that dream. His path is going in a very different direction. You cannot control the future, but you can make choices that lead you toward what you want rather than away from it. I know it doesn't seem like it right now, but I think you have been given a gift. But only if you are willing to accept it.

I wish I had been paying attention to life's messages when I was younger. My life would have been much different.

I give credit to a wise therapist who helped open my eyes. You say you are concerned that he isn't getting the help he needs. I'm concerned that you aren't getting the help you need. Have you considered counseling? Alanon?

L