Passive Aggressive Behavior....
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 689
Takingcharge -
You are right, it is mourning the loss of the alcoholic that seems more difficult BECAUSE the image they present is generally so far from the truth.
Omgoodness, my XA was everything I could have hoped for....so intelligent, charming, sensitive, seemed so open and honest about his struggle with combat ptsd. That is where my codie really kicked in....with the emotions he displayed because of his memories of the war. Those feelings that he has are certainly something I will never diminish, I can't even imagine having to live with the memories he has to live with everyday. And I know that ptsd is a life long struggle. It's not easy for him, and a definite reason he self medicates with alcohol.
But I had to learn to be VERY careful and honest with myself about what ptsd will cause and what it will not. Lack of emotion, yes, withdrawal, yes....choosing to lie..NO. I really gave him a lot of rope when it came to his withdrawal from me. "Oh it's the ptsd...." Every excuse I gave him had to do with ptsd.
But now, looking back, that was a HUGE mistake on my part. As when he wants to be with someone, he does what he needs to be with them. Hence, getting his ex back.
With him, he certainly did present himself to be someone he was not. Someone who he was never even capable of being.... and he KNEW it. I remember one of our earlier conversations before we were going to see each other again, and I SOOOO wanted to get on a plane and see him! I couldn't wait!!!
And I will never forget him saying to me "I'm just worried because I feel like you think I am more than I am."
Boy, did I do everything to make him understand that I felt he was such an amazing man, that there was nothing that he could do that would make me think less of him. (HA!) I wanted so much to comfort HIM and make HIM FEEL LOVED. Wow, what about doing that for me?
I should have paid more attention when he said that to me.
Wife-
Yes, I feel like I just learned that my XA will only apologize if he needs something. But I can be fairly sure that it is insincere, as if he doesn't get what he wants, well gloves will come off again.
Even in his last "apology" he was STILL trying to defend himself...in his opening line he said "i'm sorry for everything...BUT IN MY DEFENSE...." LOL... there is NO defense!
Interstingly enough, I was just studying child behavior, and we did a review of a study done way back in the 40's or 50's showing how children will mimic aggressive behavior when they are a witness to it. And often they will automatically escalate that behavior.
I believe 100% that we are a product of our environment. I know I am. I know that had I been raised differently, not been exposed to the things I was exposed to, I may be drawn to healthier relationships. I am not drawn to healthy relationships due to how I was raised.
But I am so grateful to be aware of this!
But I too had a lot of compassion for the hurting 3 year old inside of him. Like I said above, I did want him to feel so good about himself. I wanted him to see what I saw. But I have had to learn how to have compassion, but also self respect.
So many great perspectives here!
You are right, it is mourning the loss of the alcoholic that seems more difficult BECAUSE the image they present is generally so far from the truth.
Omgoodness, my XA was everything I could have hoped for....so intelligent, charming, sensitive, seemed so open and honest about his struggle with combat ptsd. That is where my codie really kicked in....with the emotions he displayed because of his memories of the war. Those feelings that he has are certainly something I will never diminish, I can't even imagine having to live with the memories he has to live with everyday. And I know that ptsd is a life long struggle. It's not easy for him, and a definite reason he self medicates with alcohol.
But I had to learn to be VERY careful and honest with myself about what ptsd will cause and what it will not. Lack of emotion, yes, withdrawal, yes....choosing to lie..NO. I really gave him a lot of rope when it came to his withdrawal from me. "Oh it's the ptsd...." Every excuse I gave him had to do with ptsd.
But now, looking back, that was a HUGE mistake on my part. As when he wants to be with someone, he does what he needs to be with them. Hence, getting his ex back.
With him, he certainly did present himself to be someone he was not. Someone who he was never even capable of being.... and he KNEW it. I remember one of our earlier conversations before we were going to see each other again, and I SOOOO wanted to get on a plane and see him! I couldn't wait!!!
And I will never forget him saying to me "I'm just worried because I feel like you think I am more than I am."
Boy, did I do everything to make him understand that I felt he was such an amazing man, that there was nothing that he could do that would make me think less of him. (HA!) I wanted so much to comfort HIM and make HIM FEEL LOVED. Wow, what about doing that for me?
I should have paid more attention when he said that to me.
Wife-
Yes, I feel like I just learned that my XA will only apologize if he needs something. But I can be fairly sure that it is insincere, as if he doesn't get what he wants, well gloves will come off again.
Even in his last "apology" he was STILL trying to defend himself...in his opening line he said "i'm sorry for everything...BUT IN MY DEFENSE...." LOL... there is NO defense!
Interstingly enough, I was just studying child behavior, and we did a review of a study done way back in the 40's or 50's showing how children will mimic aggressive behavior when they are a witness to it. And often they will automatically escalate that behavior.
I believe 100% that we are a product of our environment. I know I am. I know that had I been raised differently, not been exposed to the things I was exposed to, I may be drawn to healthier relationships. I am not drawn to healthy relationships due to how I was raised.
But I am so grateful to be aware of this!
But I too had a lot of compassion for the hurting 3 year old inside of him. Like I said above, I did want him to feel so good about himself. I wanted him to see what I saw. But I have had to learn how to have compassion, but also self respect.
So many great perspectives here!
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PM me
Posts: 324
Yes...I am with all of you on this one! I was always well aware of that screaming child too. Mother murdered at age eight (he might have even seen it, I try to avoid the subject).Drug addict parents, ya no the ordeal.
So I kept thinking, he just needs to heal. He needs time. If I'm a good enough friend, I can encourage that healing.
I was put off by his obvious "habits" and way of life in the beginning...but from that EXACT moment he told me the story I idealized him as this poor sad, lost soul. And how brave of him to be able to carry on. Pfft. Haha.
There's no point in being there for someone who is not entirely interested in healing. You can't force that, I guess. I do believe in my heart he really does want to heal, but I can't loose myself walking on eggshells trying to make him see a new light. Their behavior is IDENTICAL to that of children. I nanny, I know. I believe part of him died at the age of eight, and he's never been able to completely grow up. Stunted, if you will.
So yeah, the balance is so tough. You want to tend to the wounded animal. But they just attack! But I am reminded its no excuse when I meet and talk to new people who have been through hell as well and certainly don't throw it back at everyone. There seems to be a lot of emotional tact and compassion missing on their end, and I don't care if so and so is bipolar...there is simply no reason to collectively be treated as the enemy.
No calls. No answers. No shows. How about no excuse?!!!
How amazing to have people out there in the same boat! Thank you!
So I kept thinking, he just needs to heal. He needs time. If I'm a good enough friend, I can encourage that healing.
I was put off by his obvious "habits" and way of life in the beginning...but from that EXACT moment he told me the story I idealized him as this poor sad, lost soul. And how brave of him to be able to carry on. Pfft. Haha.
There's no point in being there for someone who is not entirely interested in healing. You can't force that, I guess. I do believe in my heart he really does want to heal, but I can't loose myself walking on eggshells trying to make him see a new light. Their behavior is IDENTICAL to that of children. I nanny, I know. I believe part of him died at the age of eight, and he's never been able to completely grow up. Stunted, if you will.
So yeah, the balance is so tough. You want to tend to the wounded animal. But they just attack! But I am reminded its no excuse when I meet and talk to new people who have been through hell as well and certainly don't throw it back at everyone. There seems to be a lot of emotional tact and compassion missing on their end, and I don't care if so and so is bipolar...there is simply no reason to collectively be treated as the enemy.
No calls. No answers. No shows. How about no excuse?!!!
How amazing to have people out there in the same boat! Thank you!
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
It doesn't excuse awful behavior. It doesn't mean some people don't belong in jail forever or that we don't need to remove ourselves from them.
I don't feel sorry for misfits and the poor downtrodden abuser. There's no romance there for me any more. They have their own road to travel and I hope they find a better way. I just don't want them close enough to abuse me in the meantime. Y'know?
The detachment I learned in Al-Anon serves me here as well.
How'd I get up here on this soapbox??? Let me down!
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