Elsie

ARGH!

For background you'll need to read my last thread, there's just too much to retype.

I've known this for a while, but I don't want to be with ABF anymore.
I've given him FAR too many chances, I've given US far too many chances and each time....it doesn't pan out the way we want it.

Now he says he's seeing a therapist and wants me to go with him. Back in June when we were "giving this one last shot" I agreed to go to counselling with him. But, of course, he waits until things turn very ugly again before taking action and it may be too late this time. I've thought a lot about this, and I'm very afraid of going to a therapist.
I'm very concerned because ABF is very charming, persuasive, knows what to say, when to say it and how to say it. I've often told him that he could sell dirt to a worm. I'm deeply concerned that while inc ounselling he'll somehow tell the therapist about how he's tried so hard to keep us together, how he loves me, and how I keep pushing him away, and somehow it's going to turn around and make ME look like I'm the one with huge issues.
I'm concerned about that happening and concerned about them sort of making me forget everything I've come to learn here, and convince me that I'm at fault in everything.
I recently feel like I'm getting smarter about everything, I've got my head on straight and I've got a clear head. I'm really worried that the therapist is going to chose his side and I'm going to be left there, a complete wreck.

I have a book from the library called "Why does he DO that? Inside the minds of abusive and controlling men" and the man who wrote it xplains that this can happen in couples therapy sometimes.
I don't want to lose what I've learned. I don't want to be ganged up on. I read too that the person being broken up with will often times agree that everything is all thier fault in order to gain sympathy from friends and family...ABF is doing that!! He's telling me he knows he's been a bad boyfriend, that he wouldn't blame me for leaving.....this is manipulation right?

One of his last emails to me was:
"I wish you would understand my commitment and love for our family. I am working out hard, seeking therapy, stopped drinking, committing my job to something that works for us. I am so in to you and our family, more than I have ever been to anyone or anything. My love for you is endless. Endless."

My reply was:
"It's not about if all of that is good enough for me. It's about my feelings, my fears, my concerns, my inability to remove things from my brain etc. I never questioned your love for me or the family, not once."

His reply:
"I appreciate your honesty. What I really want to know is if you are willing to work through all that and make a good life together."

I haven't answered yet. I don't know if I have it in me to either go along and try again, or even make a decision about it right now.
At some points in my day I think to myself "No, forget it. There's just been way too much for me to handle, I wouldn't even know where to begin to fix things now, and our past keeps creeping up into the present, with new things occuring and making me pull away from him"
And then, even minutes later my mind can switch to envisioning us together, happy, sitting together on a porch when we're old.

What's wrong with me????
He's been SO mean in the past!! SO immature! I've often told him he's like a fifth child to me.
He's always critisizing what I do or how I do it.
Not to mention that he's now trying to recover from alcoholism by himself.....why can't I just tell him to go away? Why can't I say to him "No, I can't do this anymore?"

Surely after 3 years of this I have HAD ENOUGH! Any other time I'd of gon running back to him by now....but this time I haven't. So, why can't I take that extra step?

isitme

I wish I had some good answers for you. I"m sitting in almost the same place. Trying to go but somehow I still have hope. Everyone keeps telling me I'll know when it's time and my hopeful feelings will go away when then time comes. I wish much clarity for you and I know how you feel.

LaTeeDa

You have many choices here. Black or white, all or nothing thinking makes it harder to make rational decisions. Why does it have to be take him back or tell him to go away? What about time? When I separated from my husband, I gave myself 6 months. I knew by that time that all his words meant nothing. It was only actions I could believe. Not a couple weeks of actions, but long term actions.

So, why not say "great! I'm glad you are taking steps in the right direction. Let's talk in 6 months and see how we both feel then."

Couples counseling can come later, if you even want to do it. I would think most reputable therapists would want the individuals to address their issues (addiction) before attempting couples counseling.

L

suki44883

Maybe because, in spite of what you say, you still haven't had enough. It's true that when you have truly had enough, nothing in the world will stop you from getting out. You will be ready to take care of yourself and nothing he can say will change your mind. THAT is when you will truly be ready to take that step.

Elsie

I'm concerned about taking a "break", because that gives him loads of time to sweet talk, and become 'nice again', just like he has before.
After I moved out early last year, about a month or so went by and he became the person I'd always wished for him to be. He even sent me flowers, and talked to me etc.
That's when I get sucked back in.
I fear that taking a breather will allow for even more months to pass by, then a couple more months of us coming back together before they turn ugly again, and before you know a whole year has passed by with me stuck where I am now....again.

transformyself

You're being pressured by him to commit RIGHT NOW DAMMIT and he's not respecting your boundary.

I would just say to him:

If you're truly committed, if your love for me is endless, you will respect my boundary, find resources and support elsewhere and give me the space I am needing. Work on yourself, do all the things you say you will and we will talk in 6 months.

Period. YOu don't have to say anything else.

All of your feelings are valid. You can trust yourself. Gawd, it took SO MUCH for me to actually leave my AH, SO MUCH.

You can do it. Take week off from him. Turn off your phone. Refuse to talk to him and see how you feel.

LaTeeDa

Well, of course only you know what's best for you. But, I will say that one month is not enough time for anyone to "become the person you always wished he would be."

Actions matter, not words. When I suggest taking some time, I mean time without contact. Without listening to his words. Time to focus on yourself and your children. Time to let him do whatever he's going to do--recovery or not.

Anyone, especially an alcoholic, can put on an act for a month to get what he wants. After six months, eight months, a year, it becomes much harder to keep up the facade. At least that's how it turned out in my case.

L

JenT1968

I got myself a therapist, just for me, she asked if I wanted him to come to the sessions, I looked at her as if she was insane, she never suggested it again.

One of the things i told her I was afraid of was that I would back down on my "we are going to live seperately until you have given up drinking and then some". that I would take action on what I wanted so desperately to believe rather than what was actually happening.

she helped me enourmously, to work out what I wanted.

I slowly slowly edged towards leaving, I gave him time and opportunities (all pointless) but I didn't cave, I found the support I needed to give myself the permission to leave (which is what I knew needed to happen). It wasn't comfortable but I am damn glad I finally did it.

or I can grant you permission if you want? LOL, i'm feeling all-powerful today, I can write you a note if you want (joke )

JenT1968

that is your experience, mine is different, waiting around to know that I had "truly had enough" is part of what I used to keep me stuck.

I didn't know, I felt the way elsie describes, and I was sinking lower and lower, I really wished that he would man up and change, but I was scared of that outcome too. he was spiralling further and further, things were getting very insane, I dread to think what would have happened if I had waited for a time when "nothing would change my mind".

I know NOW, in hindsight that it was what I needed to do, I wish (pointlessly) that I had done it earlier. I still have times when he can leave me spinning and confused, but I overcome them more and more quickly.

nodaybut2day

I'm really worried that the therapist is going to chose his side and I'm going to be left there, a complete wreck.

Just as you can't make you BF not drink and change into a better person, the therapist + your BF cannot make you do anything you're not willing to, unless there's a gun involved, in which case it's totally different situation.

This is JMO, but for me, the hardest part about "breaking up" was accepting that I would be "the bad guy", and that other people wouldn't agree with my decision. I've always been afraid of *other people's opinion*. Eventually though, I realized that I didn't need to justify why I wanted to separate to anyone but myself. The entire world could think I was a b with an itch, but as long as I knew I was doing what was right for me, I was ok.

And yes, I knew I had weaknesses and that XAH would try to convince me otherwise, so I kept communication to a minimum, hid from him for a bit until my resolve got stronger.

laurie6781

BULL. That break can be NO CONTACT. 6 months of him LEAVING YOU ALONE and WORKING ON HIM.

NO is a complete and full sentence. No explanations needed.

He is STILL QUACKING.

Now, if that is too harsh, reread "Transform's" post:

Then there is LaTeeDa:

We are all folks who have been where you are now, we are attempting to offer you ways so that no more rides on the roller coaster are necessary and so you need not continute to do 'the dance.'


J M H O

Hope it helps.

Love and hugs,

coffeedrinker

my experience, too. some of us are incredibly indecisive, feeling like the most important decision that has ever been made is hanging in the balance.


LaTeDa is right; it's doesn't have to be all or nothing, black or white.

I don't know if he's intentionally pressuring you or is flippin out because this time you really mean it and he's scared. I don't know if he's manipulating you or if he truly is realizing what you mean to him and he doesn't wanna lose it. I think it's very tempting to think that everything they say is part of the grand manipulation.

My 2 cents about counseling:
I have gone to probably five therapists in my adult life. Never has one of them suggested that I was to blame for our issues. Alcoholism always played a role and we all knew it. I'm thinkin there can't be a therapist alive who does not understand the nature of addiction and all of its manifestations. It is a fundamental issue. I also know that unless you have one you simply do not click with, they have a way of creating a relaxed vibe, of gaining your trust and helping you to open up once they have. It is much more comfortable for me to verbalize what I'm struggling with, with that mediator and interpretor present. He/She can also help to articulate what you are feeling. Oh one more thing: it is a wonderful feeling to be validated, after you have felt like he's making you crazy. (Ok, you can tell what my bias is)

isitme

I think this is the HUGE thing that I need to come to terms with and maybe you do to.

JENT - Can we both get that note please??:rotfxko

transformyself

I just realized something and can't believe I haven't said it before.

What you are lacking is faith. You are living in fear. How do we not do that?

You just need to believe, and have faith in your HP to take care of you.
Faith that no matter what you will be ok. Better than ok, in fact, perfectly wonderful.

It wasn't until I changed what I say to myself about myself that my life began to change. When I started saying positive things, I could see by contrast what negative thoughts I was having.

Try these:
I am perfectly safe right here and now.
I love and approve of myself.
I am willing to release the need to be indecisive.
All my needs are met.

I also pray like this

Thank you for feeding my family.
Thank you for keeping us safe, for bringing me the work you want me to do.
Thank you for this deep peace.

Learn2Live

You can. You just haven't been ready yet. When you are ready, you will take it.

hps

As a RAH, 18 months sober, I probably acted a bit like your ABF in early sobriety, though not in the first month. I knew how much damage my alcoholism had caused, and it was a long time before I was able to get sober, so once I did manage to get sober I wanted to dive in & work on repairing the marriage. Whereas my wife's perspective at the time was wanting to vent all the frustration and anxiety over my drinking that had built up over the years. Then after a year of sobriety she wanted to split up. So we went to a marriage counsellor, who said she couldn't help, I needed to work on my recovery, my wife needed to work on her issues. Five months later, I am still sober, my wife is still with me, but I have no idea what the future holds.

SO, I don't know your ABF, he may be abusive and controlling, but maybe he does want to try to repair things with you, and is just going about it the wrong way.

My thoughts based on the information provided:
a) He should be focussing on his recovery, one month is still a fragile time
b) He should realize couples counselling now is a bad idea, it might give him an excuse to return to drinking for one thing (e.g. what is the point of being sober if he gets dumped anyway...)
c) He should accept you have been through a lot, you have your own issues to work through, and that he should be giving you space if that's what you need.
d) You may want to have your own counsellor, if you've just been through an alcoholic relationship. As you noted, you want to have someone in your corner.

Note all of the above thoughts should work even though you think you have no future with him.

Learn2Live

Oh, one more thing I thought from this thread while driving home from work today.... I think over the years, we just stop paying attention to and trusting our instincts. When we are hurt, fearful, panicking, etc., those are our instincts. But we stop trusting them because our hearts and our minds tell us something different, and we follow them instead ("but he LOVES me!" or "but he's such a GOOD person sober!" etc).

We have to find a healthy balance where we begin to trust our instincts again but always stay true to ourselves and our values by following our hearts. Re-build your ability to recognize your instincts in order to bring yourself back into healthy balance.

Not sure if I'm making any sense here....