Break up or fall in love with sb in recovery?

Old 01-26-2010, 03:12 PM
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Break up or fall in love with sb in recovery?

Any tips on how to play out this story gratefully received... I'll scribble out the whole story:
He's been on the aa path for 8yrs and relapsed 2 or 3 times, once recently (ended up in hospital. DTs) after hitting rock bottom.

He tells me intensely that I am 'the one' and talks of marriage and kids... even though we've only really known each other for 2 months & most of that has been the emotional rollercoaster of me telling him to change and him talking about himself or his fight for 'us'. We knew each other vaguely years ago, but never had a great connection then. I wonder whether he just sees me as a kind, gentle person that he needs, or that he convinces himself that I am his perfect match because he wants me to be.He tells me my own future dreams about living abroad, but with him on board, as if telling me what I want to hear.
I find myself sucked in by his poetic talk of future happiness sometimes, despite promising myself I wouldn't. I give in to his persuasion to give him a hug, a kiss, tell him I love him (although that's not in the way he wants me to mean it).
My head tells me strongly that I shouldn't get any more involved and should step back, but whenever I try to tell him to walk the path on his own he tells me how I'll lose his warmth etc. and tells me that he's given me everything and has nothing else to give. He also wants me to state whether i'll be going for ever or if I'll reappear shortly to jump onboard his dreams of our happy future.
I bumped into him again the the other day and we always have the same circular converstation of his 'hold my hand and then I'll make it' and my 'take some steps and then i'll hold your hand' and 'take some steps and then I'll think about holding your hand'. I appreciate my changing the goal posts here didn't help him, but it was me reacting to the extent of his illness as I discovered it.
I want to be the good friend, the rock, but he makes it black and white, saying that either I am beside him, maybe as future wife, or I leave his life and we'll never be in each others lives at all. I do want to be there for him, I even said once that I wouldn't be another person who ran away scared of the turmoil in his head; turmoil that he doesnt want. I can't bear to not be in his life in some way, knowing that he's doing allright at least. I know that if it weren't for the illness and associated problems we would be dating and I know that I don't want to lose him from my life, but I have to listen to my head and not get involved.
He has the alcohol down as the problem, but I wonder if it is a symptom.
I just want to help him balance out. I can't imagine going through what he has and suffering as a result with addiction and struggling with relationships. He never signed up for any of it. Seems so unfair.
I guess the question is, can I angle being just a good friend or do I have to do the hardest thing and leave his life, never knowing if he's allright, never knowing if someone was able to help erase the mental/addiction issues and allow him the happiness he so deserves?
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Old 01-26-2010, 03:52 PM
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I just want to help him balance out. you only have been in touch with him and interactive for 2 months. Be a friend. Draw your boundaries. Just my thoughts, but he is saying exactly what he knows you want to hear...and preying on that. Have you gone to an AA or AlAnon meeting? It's the best thing you can do for you in a realm of self preservation. Yes, you can angle being a good friend! A friend with boundaries. One thing I know in my heart, is that even if my ABF got clean, there is a strong possibility (stonger than not) that he would've finally become the man I wanted and always knew he could be...but that he may not have wanted me.
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Old 01-26-2010, 04:26 PM
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JMO, but no one, under any circumstances, should talk about marriage after only 2 months. That's just nuts and if someone brought it up to me I'd walk away. If that person was a recently relapsed alcoholic, I'd run instead. JMO.
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Old 01-26-2010, 05:27 PM
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Insulated - Thankyou... Yeah, boundries. I think I struggle with them. I always set out with good intentions, but they fail; everything about him makes me want to hug him and in doing so I become the gf in his eyes. Even the conversation - as a person he's a bit chattier than me, so naturally leads more conversations, but it's always challenging why i'm not the gf, not holding his hand and not demanding kisses.
Mostly though I think I am affected by his threat of not being able to have me as a friend and if that's what I want he'll erase me from his life because I dont love him. He fails to appreciate the love I have for him; the love that's akin to that for a sibling or best friend. Somehow though that's not enough, so he'd rather not have it, or something i don't really understand.

Dgillz - You've got a point. I challenged him a couple of times about the marriage and children ideas. He always seems to have a coherent believable answer to everything. He just questioned what was wrong with dreaming of a beautiful future, having met a lovely girl etc and asked if he had to apologise just because he had vocalised his happy dreams etc. I didn't have a good answer to that at the time, but alarm bells began to ring in the sense of what was he basing out brilliant connection on?.
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Old 01-26-2010, 05:30 PM
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I just recently learned that LOVE and NEED are two different things. I think I knew they were two different things, but I did not realize that I was confusing the two in my relationships.

I guess what I'm trying to say is....LOVE should be between two people who have their own lives separate from the other and do NOT NEED the other person to make them happy or a better person. Also, LOVE should not be about whether you NEED someone to complete your life or HELP you thru your addiction.

I think I am reading your post right and that he seems to think of you as his savior. Well...I am living proof, that kind of relationship/ need/ love does not work. I tried the be his savior thing and it did not work.

Let him work on himself and become whole and then you two can start to look at a future together.
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Old 01-26-2010, 05:33 PM
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One other thing - Yes I went to an al-anon meeting. He knows i went and now has that down as another reason why I am 'the one', because nobody else in his life has ever gone. When I told him it was as a friend he went all cold and just said that I wouldn't need to go again then and that he'd go early and leave late so he'd miss me incase I went, coz as a friend he never wanted to see me again.
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Old 01-26-2010, 06:10 PM
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You're in a tough situation, Gazgaz. IMO, this is just too much drama. Were it me, knowing what I now know about alcoholics, even recovering ones, with additional issues... I'd run for the hills. That's just me. Meanwhile, we here on SR are here 24x7 for YOU and with YOU!

Hugs,
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Old 01-26-2010, 06:26 PM
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qazqaz,

what screams out at me from your post, is that you talk a lot about what he says and what he wants, but it is clearly not the same as what you want.

we are attracted to certain people for certain reasons. in a thread started today about abuse, one of us said that they think the perp seeks out certain people to be his victims. i think something like that is going on here, yes?

i guess i think that if you stay connected to him in such an intense way, even though you do care about him, and love him in a sisterly/friend way, you will end up resenting him later because you will not be where you truly wish to be. does this make sense?
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Old 01-26-2010, 08:20 PM
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To me, love develops over time, through mutual respect and appreciation. There is no "now or never," no "commit now or lose me forever." That sounds more like desperation than love. I've been seeing the same guy for almost three years now. We still see each other once a week. No pressure. No drama. No doubts about how we feel or moving to the "next level." Just mutual respect, admiration, trust and comfort. We go about our individual lives during the week and come together on the weekend. I look forward to Friday every week. I don't worry or fret about what he is doing Monday thru Friday. It's not what most people would consider a "normal" relationship. But, it works for us. And it doesn't stress me out or make me think there is something "wrong."

Talking marriage and children after two months would definitely stress me out and make me feel pressured. If it is meant to be, it will. No amount of urgency or fear can change that.

L
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Old 01-26-2010, 08:32 PM
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welcome to SR, qazqaz.


I suppose you see how we just kinda jump right in ...

I was glad to read you went to an alanon meeting.
Keep coming back, as they say.

I agree that this sounds all very dramatic...
and it reeks to me (also) of addiction
and cycling
and what life is like when the disease is doing the choosing.

You also sound quite young to me?

Or this reads as if written by someone much younger than me, at any rate
something that's not hard to do as my years keep piling up...
but he seems to believe that you're someone he can manipulate....
or that he thinks you're so desperate,
all he has to do is threaten to 'go away' and you'll bend to his will or something.

I hope you'll share in your meeting what you've written here
I feel that you need a good bit of 'in real life' support as well.

I hope you'll keep posting as you get the tools and support to work this out.
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Old 01-26-2010, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by qazqaz View Post
... coz as a friend he never wanted to see me again.
Well there you have it. That was a gift. If this was a healthy and honest kind of love, he'd want your friendship. I'm not exactly sure what he's after, but it isn't true love. Those sorts of ultimatums are so manipulative! All or nothing, Baby! Choose nothing.
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Old 01-26-2010, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by qazqaz View Post
even though we've only really known each other for 2 months & most of that has been the emotional rollercoaster of me telling him to change

why are you with him? (don't tell me, write it down for yourself)
what are you doing in a relationship that is 2 months old, where most of the time you wanted him to change?

is that where you start a relationship? not liking the person very much? having huge doubts about their motivation? wouldn't it be better to be with someone you liked as they were, whose motivation you trusted?

Are you buying into his "the one" statements? what does being "the one" mean to you? What does finding "the one" mean to you?

Is marriage something you want? consider that this may be a "hook" to keep you right there, supporting him emotionally: promises of a wonderful future kept me in a nightmare "now" for a decade.
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Old 01-27-2010, 12:09 AM
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JenT - spot on!
Howdy and welcome!
Yuck yuck and double yuck!
Manipulation and pressure from him.
Wanting him to be something else from you.
Keep up with Alanon and consider reading Codependent No More.
There are tons of marvelous fish in the sea for you. Ones (I promise) that you could love wholeheartedly and would partner with you to make those dreams come true.
You deserve more than what you're getting. But the real work is to look inside you and find out why you would settle for what you're getting.
That's the work we all must do.

Keep doing it here. It helps.

Hugs,
wife
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Old 01-27-2010, 01:44 AM
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Thankyou all.
Tchappy - That's a good point about love and need. He is aware that his version of love stems from panic/fear/need to hold on, I guess that's reflective of his mind/past. I think maybe his need is to be happy and escape his mental knots, and maybe yes he has placed me in some sort of savior role in this respect.

I wouldn't say I am in a relationship with him, although he might because i have told him he means a lot to me and I have kissed him a couple of times after caving to his charm/persuasion... that's something I must try harder not to do.

LaTeeDa - Yes, I'm with you on all that. He doesn't quite see it the same way though. If I were to have a relationship with him, which I'm trying to steer away from, I think he would consider once a week not enough time to bond. In fact he even thinks a once a week friend is worthless, or something. I think I mentioned to him 'if it's meant to be' and he reacted as if I was somehow dumping him forever.
My last relationship (not with an alcoholic) was based on meeing up at the weekends and living our own lives during the week. It was a good relationship, and I wish you luck with yours.

CoffeeDrinker - yes, that all makes complete sense. Whenever I approach the fact that it's all about him he feels a bit attacked. He's stuck in so many negative circles. I guess my first want is about him; it's for him to process things, escape all his demons and be happy.
However, the fact that it's all about him is the main issue. All he can/will talk about is his steps with aa, which is fine I'll listen to them if it helps, and this point that he can't just talk about everyday nonsense unless he can relax, knowing I am beside him as gf. When I tell him that i'm not the gf, and just want to talk about silly everyday stuff like a friend he takes that as me not caring and implies that I am therefore of no value to him... then he'll return to talking of how he's healing and I should be the gf, that we would be good together and if I'm a just a friend then I'm losing the best chance I might have of a happy ending. I think this is where I need a few pointers - getting him to run with 'friends' and everyday banter.

BarbDwyer - Don't know that I'm so young at 30, but I am completely in new territory with the way this guy's mind works. He reacts so differently and sees things differently to anyone else I've ever met. I hear his threats to leave and believe them to be real, not just a trick to keep me. I wonder if, in loving me in the intense way he says he does that the friend card is just too much at this point. Is it, in his head, like someone breaking up with you after three years and not being able to see them after that for one's own healing and self preservation, because you still love the person that doesnt love you any more?

Freude - yes I am beginning to see how manipulative he maybe is. He always manages to talk so eloquently and convincinly, but I must learn to see through it. I am leaning towards the nothing if it comes to it, but just wonder if there can be a middle ground.

JenT1968 - I am not sure I am really 'with him' - see above. I just want him to get better for his own sanity and health. I knew him vaguely back when he was younger and happier - I just want that back for him.
I'm not sure that he is 'the one'. I've got nothing to make that call on. He'll find anything to back up his belief in 'us', such as the way I write a text. I only know that we didn't have all that much of an amazing connection in the past when I was hanging out with his flatmate a lot. He however claims that even then he knew I was brilliant... something I doubt in all honesty.

Thanks again for your advice all!
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Old 01-27-2010, 06:28 AM
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Ahhh, he thinks you are brilliant; yet he doesn't have patience to listen to your everyday banter. Interesting. Manipulation from a silver tongued alcoholic. (I'm a recovering alcoholic and capable of manipulation without recovery keeping me incheck)

It sounds like he is an energy stealer looking for a fresh source of power. You sound like a balance individual, seeing life with your eyes wide open and working on keeping your serenity. He finds that attractive.

I have found that my recovery gives me energy. I am creating positive energy and well being in my life through my recovery from alcoholism and codependency. I enjoy spending time with others that are growing and seeking serenity. We enjoy a type of shared energy when we are together. That's what is so terrific about Sober Recovery Forum! Shared energy and support, equal giving and taking as needed. Being there for one another! Beautiful!

I am aware that sometimes friends may need more and sometimes I need more support (energy). But there is a healthy balance. I can't show up in the relationship and expect to keep taking. And I can't keep giving to another without feeling drained, exhausted and then I feel victimized and martyred.

It sounds like your relationship will be one sided. He shows up and talks (quacks) about his recovery. He wants you to be his trophy girlfriend and show up as his balanced partner making him look good. He wants you to listen and support his recovery, while keeping your own to yourself. I recognize this type of relationship as my last date! I posted about it. The date mentioned marriage on our first night out together. I saw red flags! I ended that relationship. I couldn't be the trophy girlfriend. I want to be respected as an equal partner in a relationship.

Take a look at what you want from a relationship. Then hold this relationship up to your list. Are you getting what you need from this relationship? Is this relationship already exhausting you? Is it worthy of your precious time?
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Old 01-27-2010, 08:27 AM
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RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN.

I wish I had.
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Old 01-27-2010, 09:15 AM
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Break up or fall in love with sb in recovery?
are these the only choices? can you choose to fall in love with someone?
what about stay friendly, and see if something mature developes in time? If he can't be friends fair enough, that's his call, but if the options are "be with me NOW or be gone" and he's a relapsing addict what would you be losing by being gone?

in your answers above you are with him and not, beguiled by trying to understand how his mind ticks, is he the tortured genius artist waiting for the one truely gifted angel-woman to come into his life and understand-him to a point of cure? is that you? is that complete fairytale nonsense? are you feeling conflicted? confused? unsure? heady? "giving into kisses" against your better nature? on a rollercoaster of emotions? asking questions on an internet site dedicated to alcoholism? after 2 months! you want to be "a rock, a good friend", his knight in shining armour "to the rescue!!"

well hang on, babe, because it gets dark and bumpy and twisted and scary from here on in. Apparently you're hooked by the drama, the chaos, the rush of the highs, the pain of the lows, that instant love, the adoration: star-crossed lovers! (I was too, I damn near broke trying to live it)

read the pain around here and ask yourself:

is this how I want to start a relationship?
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Old 01-27-2010, 10:38 AM
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Pelican, JenT1968- yes that's all pretty bang on.

I said it a bit firmer today; that I am offering friendship and wouldn't cross the friendship boundary.

He says he's aware of the danger of it being about him all the time and feels terrible for being faulty and ill and feels bad about the 'all or nothing'. He says he just wanted to muddle through and learn together because he liked me for me and that he knew he shoudn't use me to heal him. He's been through recovery before and half his head knows the al-anon side but at the moment half of him is still new in recovery.

Anyway, he has now re-set my stated friendship boundaries. His stated boundary is that we don't see or speak to each other, so I guess that's it... or will he come around to being friends... I don't know quite how his mind will work... or what will happen if he does change his mind about this final and absolute boundary.

I guess I just wanted to somehow fix him. It breaks my heart he never chose to have the life he's had that has maybe led him to alcohol. He just deserves a clear minded happiness, yet he has so much mental turmoil to deal with instead.
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Old 01-27-2010, 10:43 AM
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Anvilhead - such clarity - thankyou!

He isn't working, so just has a basic lifestyle. On a good day he talks of friends, but often refers to many as not having somehow proved themselves to be good friends.

He is actively involved in aa though and seems to have a good sponsor.
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Old 01-27-2010, 10:47 AM
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I too think this reeks terribly of manipulation and narcissism. I would tread water very carefully if you are not willing to step away just yet. (Which I think would actually be the safer route.) Just like anvil says “if it’s already this way.. WOW, I can’t imagine what it will look like after a year or two”.. (paraphrase)

One of my favorite sayings is from the movie beetlejuice “If I knew then, what I know now.. I never would have had my little accident!” Please don’t let this man be YOUR little accident. Make sure your thinking of yourself and not just what he needs or wants.

(was writting this post as your new one about his friendship boundary came up)
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