Break up or fall in love with sb in recovery?

Old 01-27-2010, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by qazqaz View Post
His stated boundary is that we don't see or speak to each other, so I guess that's it...
Okay, that's it. period.

Today is about you. What will you do for yourself? Give yourself a hug and pick something wonderful (chocolate?) to pamper you.

(((hugs)))
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:18 PM
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Once again Pelican you are right. I guess I accept this somewhat bitter offer of a way out from him.

It just breaks my heart that he's had such rough ride in life from early on and has ended up with so many issues, including alcoholism, as a result. It's not his fault, nor his choosing. He just wants to be happy and on an balanced level and can often see that he is not. I like to consider myself pretty balanced and I don't know if I could cope with the mental turmoil that goes around his mind. If he'd have had a different upbringing he would be such a brilliant bloke... we'll his is, but it's just so clouded by things like the alcoholism. It just seems so unfair that he so much to fight through as a symptom of problems earlier in life.

I want to wave my magic wand for him, and magically have him work through everything, but I don't know how. It worries me that he wont heal properly, and what that could mean in the further future.
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Old 01-27-2010, 08:20 PM
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Qazqaz, I can relate to your feelings here. I bet a lot of us can. We can stand back and review our relationships and if we are honest and pretend it's a friend's life and not our own, we know exactly what we'd want for our friend. But for us, somehow something is different. There is something so baffling and magnetic about men like this. I am trying to figure this out for myself.

What do you think it is?? I am wondering if it's the fact that someone allegedly turning down a life-changing path chooses US as a companion...in their darkest and most serious challenge in life, we feel the bond created by them inviting us to help them somehow rises above the ordinary manipulator and codependent. No doubt, when we project our romantic dreams, we convince ourselves that, even if there is only the slightest chance of working out, if it DOES, by sharing this painful and significant transition with him, our reward will be a bond stronger than we've ever felt. That tiny chance for something so longed for makes it worth the risk. Makes us THINK it's worth the risk.

Anyone else have any insights?
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Old 01-27-2010, 08:33 PM
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That tiny chance for something so longed for makes it worth the risk. Makes us THINK it's worth the risk.
I have no insights on this Freude.
The above quote will have me thinking for awhile.
Risking my life on something I am not sure exists. Yes, I must think now.
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Old 01-28-2010, 01:13 AM
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He won't go away that easy.

The one thing I tell guys right away is that I will be their friend. If that isn't enough for them, then there is nothing I can do. I REFUSE to be co-erced into being a GF. His threat of all or nothing is an act of a cowardly bully!

Do not let him get away with winning by threats. It WILL escalate. You have only known him for two months.

I learned the hard way. Just because they say it's black and white, does not mean that is so. He seems to be trying to push your boundaries until you have absolutely none.

OWN YOURSELF. You will get the Respect that you deserve.
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Old 01-28-2010, 01:26 AM
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Freude - Yes, baffling and magnetic they are.

Is it about feeling somehow honoured to be offered to hold their hand and walk the learning curve together? Is it that we somehow enjoy feeling needed?
On a good day there is the reward of the strong bond, which is attractive to us as humans; a bond that we see as being to the real person that we see behind the recovery clouds. I guess this is what I wanted in the story above; to allow myself to run with my heart and not my head; to be that number one confidante and closest friend helping him process his demons.

But are we kidding ourselves. One bad day from them or wrong move by us leads to the realisation of how close we dance to those happy dreams being shattered.
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Old 01-28-2010, 01:45 AM
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Thankyou Whadahay
I know you are right, but at the beginning I didn't know how to play it and found myself giving him the impression that I would seriously consider being the gf - there's a lot about him I like and could easily fall for and I do find I just want to hug him and make everything better whenever I see him (if only if were that simple!).
However I think he thought I was just tough loving him until such a time as I saw fit to step into the gf role. But I recently I told him that if it's 'all or nothing' then I can't chose 'all' and he now hates himself for giving me the ultimatum and me for not seing through the recovery clouds and seeing the potential in us. I think he has now put up a great wall between us and wont let me be there anymore because he cant deal with me as just a friend because he fell in love
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Old 01-28-2010, 06:25 AM
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Dearest qazqaz,
Being his friend does not mean becoming part of him.
He is a drama queen, and what you are seeing right now is what it would be like to live with him every day - only it will be worse because he will either be hating you for not reading his mind or hating himself for phrasing something wrong...and eventually all you will see is this anger and hatred and blaming.
To me, he sounds really scary.

Sorry for the lack of sugarcoating, but you did ask.
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Old 01-28-2010, 06:42 AM
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Being his friend does not mean becoming part of him.
Stella27,
this is going in my relationship book.
i love what i learn here.
yes, we are two separate beings.
Beth
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Old 01-28-2010, 07:30 AM
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My Dear,
This is very much the demanding relationship that I just got out of. The neediness, the pressure for committment, the constant manipulation and coercion.

Make no mistake- This WILL suck the life right out of you.
What would you do if someone told you they wanted to lock you in a deep dark hell, take away your friends and family and make you feel worthless??
Because that is what these people do- soon everything that is wrong is his life will become your fault.
It may seem like you are the strong one at this time. After awhile that changes and you begin to feel insane.
Save yourself - please
By the way- my relationship ended with a protective order, frightened at night, sleeping with a gun and panic attacks. In the beginning, never in a million years would have believed he could be violent. (He just loved me so much) NOT
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Old 01-28-2010, 10:36 AM
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Thankyou Stella27. Yes I guess he is something of a drama queen. I don't see the threats etc as all that sinister or scary because he delivers them in such a gentle manner.

Miyah, I'm sorry to hear you had such a rough ride. It opened my eyes some more though. These are the reasons why I forced myself to run with my head and not my heart and declare myself a friend and nothing more.

He doesnt seem to be able to navigate around the 'good friend' offer though, which puzzles me. He's put up all his barriers since I said that. He doesn't seem to see the value in a friend, or something like that - I suspect he wont let me in now that I am not the gf. I haven't heard from him for a couple of days, which is unusual. It's like I had to be in love with him for him see me as any worth. I wonder if it's down to me breaking his heart in some way... or if there are some underlying issue with relationships (any kind) here... or if it's just the alcoholic/recovering mindset at play?
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Old 01-28-2010, 10:40 AM
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This may be an unpopular response, and I know your new here so please just take what you will and leave the rest. I'm not trying to hurt, just letting you know what I see. I know it's taken some hard words for me to see things that I wanted to pretend weren't as they really were.. with that being said..

It just breaks my heart that he's had such rough ride in life from early on and has ended up with so many issues, including alcoholism, as a result. It's not his fault, nor his choosing. He just wants to be happy and on an balanced level and can often see that he is not. I like to consider myself pretty balanced and I don't know if I could cope with the mental turmoil that goes around his mind. If he'd have had a different upbringing he would be such a brilliant bloke... we'll his is, but it's just so clouded by things like the alcoholism. It just seems so unfair that he so much to fight through as a symptom of problems earlier in life.

I want to wave my magic wand for him, and magically have him work through everything, but I don't know how. It worries me that he wont heal properly, and what that could mean in the further future.
It's alright to feel compasion for what he's been through. But he was going through it before you met him and he'll continue to go through it whether he is with you or not. You can not change his exsistance no matter how you feel about it. And the reality is you don't have a magic wand and of course you don't know how to make it all better because you can't. He has to do those things for himself.

I'm sorry if it sounds harsh, it's just what I see right now. I've been there too and it took me a long time of feeling offended by the truth to see it. Each time someone has asked you to look at you and what you want, you contiune to speak solely about him. Maybe it's time to let him deal with his life and you deal with yours. If you all can do it together great. If he "needs" more than that.. no go.. If you want to "give" more than that no go. You'll end up being addicted to him the same way he's addicted to alcohol.
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Old 01-28-2010, 10:46 AM
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Just realized I didn't read the second page before posting...
It sounds like your seeing a little more clearly now and I hope the best for you and your situation. Sorry if I sounded "off".
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Old 01-28-2010, 10:57 AM
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That's fair enough. I guess all my talk of him is just me trying to figure him out and put some other brains on the case. But you've got a point though.
I'd just like us to be friends (we do get on and can talk (two-way) for hours), but maybe that's not possible (see my previous post) -maybe he'll always wish for more and I'll always give off the vibe of being interested in falling for him but confuse him because my head will always stop it.
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Old 01-28-2010, 11:06 AM
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Ultimately, sooner or later in life, you are going to have to figure out what YOU want - not what he needs, not what he wants, not what you can do for him or wish you could do for him.

I don't understand what you mean by giving off the vibe that you might fall for him? or confuse him because your head will stop you? Do you want him to love you and pine away for you while you don't intend to be his soul-mate?
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Old 01-28-2010, 11:18 AM
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OooOo.. I've been there too.. I can't recall the number of posts I made trying to make sense of things. There is a saying around here.. (somone may remember it more precisely that me) You can't make sense of crazy.. or you can't make sense of things that don't make sense. (someone help me out here!)

I used to think if I could just figure it out then I would know how to fix it or at least handle it. Unfortunately it proved to be fruitless.
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Old 01-28-2010, 11:38 AM
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Stella27 - I'd just like us to be friends. I think what I meant by 'giving of the vibe' etc could be likened to meeting up with an ex after a week of breaking up and there still being some chemistry.
THere is something between us and he brings it to my attention whenever we meet and I hesitate for a moment before reminding him that friends is the best call. He is all ready to run with his heart and hopes I will too, but then I let my head win.
I know he's not an 'ex' as such, but if the emotion set-up is similar... I have made friends with exes in the past and understood that chemisty doesn't make two people compatible I'd like to do that in this case too... Maybe that's asking too much?
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Old 01-28-2010, 11:42 AM
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Do you want him to love you and pine away for you while you don't intend to be his soul-mate?[/QUOTE]

I just want an even friendship. But is worries me that these sort of thoughts have run across his mind. He's dissapeared after all, since I reminded him I was a friend, by which I meant a good and solid one.
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Old 01-28-2010, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Freude View Post
I am wondering if it's the fact that someone allegedly turning down a life-changing path chooses US as a companion...in their darkest and most serious challenge in life, we feel the bond created by them inviting us to help them somehow rises above the ordinary manipulator and codependent. No doubt, when we project our romantic dreams, we convince ourselves that, even if there is only the slightest chance of working out, if it DOES, by sharing this painful and significant transition with him, our reward will be a bond stronger than we've ever felt. That tiny chance for something so longed for makes it worth the risk. Makes us THINK it's worth the risk.

Anyone else have any insights?

oh, i don't know if i think it's "worth the risk". what i mean is i don't think i've ever thought it through in those terms.

i DO know, about that bond thing. sometimes, when i used to fantasize (kinda don't these days) about an "us future", that bond was right there in the picture. we were like in each other's bloodstream, so many memories, hurdles overcome, so much a part of one another. yep, that sure is in the formula for me.

if i had a crystal ball and knew there would be another bit of a tough time, but saw the end result and it was that happy ever after (sort of; i know it's not that simple) i would definitely stick it out. sometimes i just know without question that this is the man i wish to grow old with.

oh my.
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Old 01-28-2010, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Freude View Post
Qazqaz, I can relate to your feelings here. I bet a lot of us can. We can stand back and review our relationships and if we are honest and pretend it's a friend's life and not our own, we know exactly what we'd want for our friend. But for us, somehow something is different. There is something so baffling and magnetic about men like this. I am trying to figure this out for myself.

What do you think it is?? I am wondering if it's the fact that someone allegedly turning down a life-changing path chooses US as a companion...in their darkest and most serious challenge in life, we feel the bond created by them inviting us to help them somehow rises above the ordinary manipulator and codependent. No doubt, when we project our romantic dreams, we convince ourselves that, even if there is only the slightest chance of working out, if it DOES, by sharing this painful and significant transition with him, our reward will be a bond stronger than we've ever felt. That tiny chance for something so longed for makes it worth the risk. Makes us THINK it's worth the risk.

Anyone else have any insights?
What I've learned through my 20+ year relationship with an alcoholic is this. We are attracted to people whose dysfunction fits our own. I was attracted to an alcoholic who needed "fixing" because I grew up always being the one to smooth things over and "fix" the problems in my family. Quite a common role for the eldest child in an alcoholic family, actually. I would have sworn to you that there was a "magical" connection between me and my husband, a "bond stronger than any I'd ever felt before."

It's not magic, it's not healthy, and it certainly isn't love. It's our own magical thinking and familiarity with certain types of dysfunction. As my friend Minnie once said: "The horns on his head fit perfectly the holes in mine."

This will probably come off as cynical to some, but there are NO prince charmings, NO fairy tales, and NO happily-ever-afters in real life. Love is something that develops over time as a result of respect and trust, shared ideals, and most of all--equality. Valiantly helping someone through a tough time, rescuing them from their demons does not earn you their undying devotion for the rest of your life. In fact, those expectations very likely will end up in a big pile of resentment on both sides.

I just had to chime in here because it's shocking to me the amount of magical thinking being shared on this thread. Magical thinking screwed up a big part of my life. Reality has proven to be so much better for me.

L
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