FindingPeace1

No offense taken. But i reiterate, she has NEVER been like this before - this is behavior of one month, and one month only.

My situation is different. I confronted my AH about drinking and he changed. But I saw a side of him I had never seen..or so I thought. I had never seen it directed at me, for sure. But the more I reflect, the more I saw glimpses of it. The more I realize I was in denial about things...your situation could be different, but continue to look at what you might have been overlooking until now. It can be surprising what things arise when you look with new eyes.

What is important to remember is that EVEN THOUGH she has been amazing for years, you are dealing with today. Being told "F-you" over and over is not okay no matter how many years of nice proceeded it. So now you have your wife today. A new day and a "new" partner who is allowing you to be a new you. What is and is not okay for you? What are your expecations for how you expect to be treated? Regardless of what your wife is going through, you have a right to have standards of treatment.

She just wants to be free of obligations and responsibilites and be able to do what she wants to do, whenever she wants to.

Does this sound right to you? Marriage and parenting comes with obligations and responsibilities, as you know. Playing both those roles REQUIRES responsibilities. Period. You can't make her accept responsibility, but you can say you won't tolerate her shirking them without consequence.

What I want is quite simple, I want my wife to stay with me. I want her to do AA, me to do Alanon and for us to go through this journey together. I want us to treat each other well again, and for us to be able to open up through this process (she has suddenly completely shut me out). I want us to make this marriage work because it is a good one, and I want our last at home child to benefit from seeing a healthy relationship work (obviously not there at the moment).

Now HERE is where I am in familiar territory! The wanting! Oh my, do I understand the wanting. Wanting the external world (your wife included) to change is taking you nowhere.
- Wanting her to stay with you
- wanting her to do aa
- wanting her to treat you well
- wanting her to open up
You can express your wants, for sure, but the outcome is out of your hands. YOU can treat her well, you can open up to her, but that's all that is in your control.

And I want to feel like I can breathe again, stop obsessing over what she is or isn't doing (i've never done this except for the last month) including being jealous and feeling insecure.

The good news is, this you DO have control over! This will come with work.

I don't know. i just don't know.

Confusion is a symptom to us that there are things we don't want to look at (or haven't been ready to look at yet). Continue uncovering your inner world, gently. The next step will appear to you, eventually.

What awfulness! Hugs.
w

twitchtides

Thank you everyone and especially Wifeofadrinker, your post settled me for some reason this morning. Oddly, i now wake up at 2:30 am every morning for an hour of self-pity and crying - pathetic.

Yes, NOTHING she is saying sounds "right" to me. For example the whole free of obligations thing - I get that people get divorced, though i never expected it, I get it - but if someone wants to be free from obligations, in our case, divorce is almost the worst move she can make - she will end up full time parent 3 or 4 days a week (no freedom there) and I will end up taking most of her pay. This is not what I want or whatever, this is the reality - she will devastate herself in the process.

It's like talking to someone who has not even thought about one consequence, is just spouting things as they come to her. Tonight she actually yelled at me because if we divorce i'm going to take "half of her money - that she worked so hard for", and i've been home with the kids - so i told her that without me at home, she could not have put in the hours, etc. - and she goes to "i never would have had kids but for you" - but the reality is that we do, and she was part of that choice.

We are actually together on a pre-planned vacation, which is turning into a disaster - thankfully we are somewhere where there is a lot of separate stuff to do.

The thing that is really awful for me is that I believe (at this point i don't even know anymore what is sane/insane/real/unreal) that I'm having a normal response to having someone ask for divorce out of nowhere - i feel like i'm losing my entire plan for the future, and I KNOW it'll be ok later, but it is not at all ok now. And if I cry, she gets mad - and then lashes out - and I keep thinking - but you brought this all up - you could have asked for therapy with me, you could have told me you were thinking of this, you could have been honest - (she's been stewing this over for about a year unbeknownst to me).

I keep also getting stuck in the really stupid stuff - like our renewal of vows 16 months ago - I am so ashamed this is happening and am embarrassed that everyone will know that 16 months ago she loved me and now after this show of love, it's over.

Some of the things that are hurting me i know are "normal" given the circumstances, but I am doing an awful lot of future tripping and don't know how to stop.

I am clear on one thing, the things she are asking for are going to be difficult to do, and I don't understand quite what her vision is for "separate but live together" and all that - it's all very gray - and i'm scared to push because every time i ask her to explain something tangible to me, she gets mad and brings up divorce rather than separation.

I think I have forgot to add in here that it's not just me she's isolating from - she has not shared any of this with any of her friends, she has stopped calling friends, and her family is very close knit - and she has stopped talking to her mom any more than is necessary.

I wish i knew a quick fix. i know there isn't one. having a hard time letting go of the fact that for so long i truly believed she was "the one".

Tired of being up every night at this time. I'm just very, very, very tired. Last night before we went on this stupid vacation my 10 year old finally asked me "why are you sleeping in this other room". We've agreed not to talk to her until we have a more formal "plan", but it was pretty hard not to answer in any other way than "i don't know", which is just plain silly.

This will devastate our daughter in a way i can't imagine and i know it's up to me to help transition that for her, but i feel so weak at the moment - I suppose mommy strength will kick in? I pray it will. We won't be telling her til at least Feb. 5 after we talk to therapist again. My partner says "i don't want to model a loveless marriage for our daughter (news to me)" and from our daughter's perspective she would say we have a great marriage, always having fun, doing things together, never fighting, etc. I worry more, if we are worrying about modeling behavior - so the new model is that one day without warning someone can just leave? I hate when we start talking about our daughter, though necessary, it really upsets both of us and we go to a bad place.

Sorry for the ramblings; i have never been so lonely in my life, and al-anon, this group and my friends (who have been here for me in a way i never could have dreamed) are literally my lifeline at the moment. I'm in a dark, scary place - I know it'll get better, but i wish it would get better sooner - I know the more work i do the better, but i feel almost lethargic with grief.

Thanks for the support, i realize i'm rambling - sigh.

gowest

I'd like to comment. I'm divorced. Long complicated story neither of us is a addict but have huge addiction issues in the extended families.

So she has known for a long time. When you get through this horrible bad part you can spend sometime looking at signs that you didn't/wouldn't see. It will be interesting work for you once you get your bearings.

I would not let her live with you. That is I want my cake and to eat it too. How will you move on? How will you change and grow? What will you get out of a situation like that? So when she says she wants out very kindly and gently say ok - there is the door. I'm not kidding. Seems harder now but will be easier in the end. I do not like her throwing out together but separate and do not fall for the idea that this is better for your daughter. I only think this works when a couple reaches a decision they should not be "together" jointly. Not when it is initiated by one side.

Of course she's isolating. She's obviously wanted out for a long time but been too afraid to say she has and doesn't want you or anybody else to question her decision.

In terms of the modeling behavior for your daughter. YES! People can just leave it happens all the time everyday. I'm not saying it is "good" but it is what it is. My friend with the best marriage is in one where they both came from divorced homes (bad ugly divorces too) and work very hard at their relationship.

What you will model for your daughter is your truth: sometimes unexpected bad things happen. You grieve, you talk about your feelings, AND you move past it eventually and lead a fulfilling life.

Good luck. I'm sure you will be able to do get through this event hough it will be really yucky and painful for a while to come.

JenT1968

I understand that this is hard. REALLY hard.

But she has stated that she doesn't want to be with you any more.
That really is her choice and really all you need to know.
The reasons don't have to make sense to you, they are her reasons. You don't have to have seen it coming for it to be valid, she doesn't have to have seen it coming for it to be valid.

When one person wants out of a relationship, that relationship is over. Refusing to accept that, looking for answers that are to do with your partner's emotional maturity, drinking, lies, involvement with other people, doesn't prolong or fix the relationship, they just add to the whole crazy-making experience.

that's a simple thing to write but it is an enormously complicated thing to do, the interweaving of 2 lives, with emotional growth on both sides.

we only ever get one side of a story here, and its so easy to jump to conclusions, the pair of you had a contract that worked for a good long while? in your words . You broke the contract (and lied about it? you mentioned lying?) she freaked and instead of drinking got into AA (smart move, no?). I'm not saying that it is healthy to hand you responsibility for her drinking, but shifts have occurred in the status quo and there are consequences to that.

and now she's angry and wants out of the relationship and you feel like the rug has been pulled out from under you and are spinning. She's not newly sober, she might well be newly dealing with all manner of emotional stuff to do with her, with your relationship.

The obligations she is talking about might well be entirely her obligations to you. Which is tough to hear.

None of that is your responsibility though, her emotions, her rage, she gets to own those. You get to own yours. Clearly she is going through some stuff, you don't have to be the recepticle for those issues. If you don't want to be seperated but living together: fine, say so. Don't be blindsided by talk of divorce rather than seperation, it is on the cards whether you talk about it or not, don't let that be a sword hanging over you, that you allow to control your actions.

This is hard, but her motivation and the course that each of you will follow will become clear given time and space, not with frantic over analysing and pushing each other. I know you feel blindsided, and shocked and powerless, but the fabulous thing about her having space, is that YOU GET SOME TOO. You get to evaluate, take stock, look at what you want in a relationship, see if his is it, look at yourself at what you want from a future.

grab yourself in a headlock and strong-arm your gaze away from her, she doesn't have a glass head, you CAN'T work out what is going on in her mind. You CAN work out what you need in all of this, and start to live your life based on that.

however

quite.

and as a child whose parents stayed together "for the sake of the children": I still cannot understand why people think that is a good idea: "we'll present this as a normal relationship: how to pretend to love someone that you don't, how to remain miserable and take it out on everyone around you, how to be a matyr and ultimately blame your children", what a nightmare of repressed rage and ongoing tension that was. bring them up in that world and you all but doom them to repeat your misery.

twitchtides

Actually in regards to the drinking/lying thing that I did - she actually "let me" drink at our surprise wedding, so i actually thought it was no big deal, even though she did not say it was a lifestyle choice for me.

I am sure there is no one else.

Today she told me she loves me and just has to walk this particular path alone, and then said that she does not think our relationship is bad and that the things that are can be fixed, but she has to work on herself first, before she can even look at "us" and then "i can't expect you to wait around for me to do that".

One reason i'm having such a hard time with all of this is that i get completely inconsistent messages each day. And though I'm trying to not be "reactive" - she keeps changing thigns around, once i feel settled with something, it changes again.

If she or I has to move out - it will be a nightmare, and though she wants to leave me (not the house) at this moment, we model a loving relationship for our child (up until last month) and though we've been very good about not fighting or whatnot in front of the kiddo, she's not an idiot.

So today it's i love you and i hope we make it eventually; and yesterday it was "i'm very angry that if we divorce i have to give you half of MY money" (even though we agreed i'd be the stay at home mom). It's one extreme to the other.

I know this is a HUGE growth opportunity for me (and her - but that's her thing) and I know that if we end up together or separate we'll be better people for having gone through this, but it's awfully hard for me to let go of who has been (up til a month ago) the most reliable, honest, loving and caring person I've ever known.

I can't wait til the phase of crying myself to sleep ends. . . At least there are days i don't actually cry until bedtime.

JenT1968

((Hugs))

twitchtides

4 a.m. and i'm up as usual - this sucks so bad, i would think that after 6 weeks i'd at least be able to sleep. I'm so tired. The daily mixed messages continue and I'm feeling like when I get back home i'm going to need to move out and in with my parents (can't afford apartment at this time) because i am finding it hard to actually be healthy in any way while with her all the time.

I keep thinking about the future (i know it's supposed to be one day at a time, but i can't seem to master that) and keep thinking of her dating other people, it makes me crazy.

I can't make sense of any of her actions, and when I actually take a "concrete" step towards what she's asking for, then i get her freaking out. For example, a few days ago we were having dinner (b/c we're on vacation together - yes, i know - WTF) and somehow money comes up - she's been the sole provider for 10 years while i've been at home with the kids. She says "i'll figure out what's a fair amount of money to give you" - meaning both on a monthly basis, and i suppose of our savings/stock, etc. We live in California and have been registered Domestic partners forever, plus have been married 3 times. I told her that actually all the money is 50/50, there's nothing for her to decide. She actually said to me "well, we've ONLY been domestic partners, so there's some gray area". Thankfully, there is NO gray area concerning this, and i told her that. Anyhow, this goes on and on, and I eventually told her that i'd seen an attorney just to make sure i understood the law. This sent her into a rage, and i told her i only went for a consult, if i was pursuing anything she would know.

Then she turned the whole money thing onto me (it's amazing when she does this - i mean it's brilliant to watch from "the outside") - she has been working really hard so that she can retire young; we have had joint dreams around this for years, and we have sacrificed a lot in order to get where we will be financially (time together, time with the kids). So when it actually dawns on her that i own half of what she owns, she actually said to me "you are going to take my retirement money when you know that retiring is what i've been dreaming of all these years? Now i won't be able to retire, if you take half." Seriously - I AM NOT THE ONE WHO WANTS OUT - this is all from her doing - not mine, and now she is blaming me for losing half her money eventually????

This is the type of behavior that is making me nuts.

Anyhow the next day, she pulls me close and tells me "i love you, i need you to know that, i still need to separate because it's what i need, but i'm not sure i want it to be permanent. Then acknowledges good things in our relationship, then kisses me a bunch of times and tells me she is trying not to be a slimeball and to leave me with some integrity".

Unfortunately this feels like that cycle of abuse thing - (not physical) - but every time I feel i take a strong stand, then there is all this kindness the next day, which i don't know if it's real, or motivated by her fear, or in reaction to what i said, or what - now for the past 6 weeks I literally cannot trust ANYTHING she says, and this is hard for me. Then she can fly into a full out rage in a matter of seconds, and i don't even know what will set her off/when? And this is very new behavior. Over the past 16 1/2 years, i have seen this rage - but i've seen it only 3 times and each time it's lasted maybe 10 minutes, and has not been directed at me. I find her rage terrifying.

I'm tired, and sad, and angry and tired of feeling all of those things.

Just ranting. Would rather be sleeping.

Honestly, without al anon, this board, my meetings, I would be completely lost. This is a very comforting place.

Kassie2

HI, Sounds like an awful place to be emotionally right now. Been there.

I wanted to comment about "taking a strong stand" and then seeing her respond with acceptance. I did a lot of reading about boundary setting here under classic reading. I recalled that when I began to say no to my AH he initially when into a rage and threatened to leave but then stayed and worked it out somehow without another mention.

We are separated now and he did get RAH, I am in therapy and therapist reminded me that when I set limits - my RAH does find a way to accept it. He said to keep doing it b/c it is curative for me (I need to stop taking so much responsibility for the relationship) and curative for my RAH (who needs to learn how to take more responsibility) I was also told that his response is a stress one and that in recovery one has to build up their ability to handle stress more often and for longer periods of time.

Hope this helps some and you have a better day today.

Carol Star

When I was going through this stuff the Eckhart Tolle books helped me so much.....The Power of Now and The New Earth......or you can watch him online with Oprah if you type in A New Earth. Stay in the moment. You are ok in this moment. I am divorced 2 1/2 years and have gotten to a place where I realize it is better for me. My XAH was verbally abusive. You don't deserve that. You are in the eye of the storm and later on it will calm down. You may never know the real reasons she is reacting /acting like she is. 51% of relationships end in divorce,and it may be more than that now.....Trust God....there will be doors opening for you you don't see now....Let go or be dragged. Nobody here can get in her head, and she may not know either. It helps to do a gratitude list. The past is history, the future a mystery, you only have the present which is why it is called a gift. If your mind wakes you up at 2 am observe what it says to you, and just observe it , don't obsess about it. My mind obsesses about the same stuff every am and it is just my primitive brain saying look ......THERE IS A TIGER BEHIND THAT BUSH GOING TO EAT YOU! It's bull----. OK mind......... I hear you. Thanks for the warning......I'll eat a good breakfast, talk to my friends on SR, go to an Alanon meeting, do a gratitude list, play with my kids, be awake to my devinity, not have any expectations, do some service for someone else, get some sun and exercise, do some stepwork.......stay busy and live and let live. I got into yoga and meditation too back when I was going through the rough stuff with my X ,and they helped calm me . There is one free tape from Centerpoint . It is called Holysync meditation and all you do is listen it.... does the work calming you. Lots of us have been there. You are not alone. I don't think that big house will be big enough though. Just my opinion. If it was sad for me I could not be in close proximity. One day at a time.....just for today.....be happy, adjust yourself to what is, strengthen your mind, be agreeable,have a program, be unafraid, (all from Alanon).

Learn2Live

twitchtides, you do realize that this is all part and parcel of alcoholism and addiction? That this is the rollercoaster of living with and/or being involved with a person with the disease?

It FEELS like a cycle of abuse because it IS a cycle of abuse.

This is a horrible way to live your life, for even a second.

I hope you soon find the courage to make the choices and take the actions you need to regain your peace, serenity, and health.

coffeedrinker

twitchtides,

i have felt the roller coaster you are living from your words. you are very confused, and it feels to me like you are being played like an instrument. i get the sense your partner is very clever, high intelligence, and i am not saying i'm sure she's a calculating manipulative beast, but manipulative is indeed what she is. maybe it's second nature, maybe it's her default position when stressed or out of control, i don't know. but, to you, it doesn't matter.

i think learntolive has words of wisdom. maybe you will get a little freedom when you call it what it is.

FindingPeace1

HUGS TO YOU TODAY!
That thing you said about your recommitment vows and feeling embarrassed...I get that!! My AH and I married almost 3 years ago now and when I first started considering separating, I had all this shame!
Where was I then or where am I now? Either I was stupid/unaware then or now!
How could that change have happened so fast?
Didn't my vows mean anything?
On and on.

A good friend told me - when you said "I will be with you forever"-
you meant it (at that time) (as did, I assume my partner did).

That's all we have. "Right now" in an endless series of moments through our lives.

For me, I look back to that wedding and I wouldn't take away ONE MOMENT of it. It was WONDERFUL. BEAUTIFUL. HEAVENLY. And I meant every word.

I realize no one can ever take that beautiful day away from me and I was as true to me then as I am working to be right now. And that is never something I should feel shame about.

Hugs

Carol Star

I worried about the vows too....and my minister said the Bible says "not to be yoked to a drunkard"......

twitchtides

Still having problems with all of this - i get the alcoholism disease thing - but why only for a month has this behavior been showing itself - we've had a really peaceful 17 years prior.

Like this has never been part of loving her before, what the hell happened. it is this that i keep trying to get my head around, and i guess i'll never get it, and i know, know, know that i need to move on, despite the huge loss and cost, but i'm so freaking scared.

Learn2Live

It may be best, then, twitchtides, if your physical life is not in danger, to not think about moving on right now, because it is causing you so much fear and anxiety to do so. The fear and anxiety of leaving likely will paralyze you from taking action and leaving anyway, so just stop thinking about it for now. You do not have to decide right now. Get and stay in the present moment.

Try to focus on SLOWLY becoming more and more aware of what is going on around you, other people's behavior, and how you are being affected by your environment and the people in it. For me, being faced with what I needed to be faced with in order to begin the process of becoming who I needed to become (truly living), was so terrifying, painful and life-threatening, that my self, my body, forced Clinical Depression on me. Depression, I believe, is a defense mechanism of the human organism. Having the depression dulled my senses (and therefore all my fear and panic) enough to be able to get out of the situation. I hope the way I have explained how I understand what occurred with me here is making sense.

What these feelings are (like fear, anxiety, panic), are your instincts. That's just how our bodies work. Do not beat yourself up about the fear, or judge yourself. It is our stress response and you are under EXTREME stress from this situation. Learn to listen to them and learn to TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS.

The other feelings (like love, pain, hurt) you can think of as your heart, or your VALUES. FOLLOW YOUR HEART because it always speaks your truth. When you BOTH trust your instincts and understand your heart, the decisions you need to make for yourself and your life become easier, and less scary. It can be a difficult balance, and it take a lot of courage and work to achieve this balance, but it is possible, and it is life-changing.

In the meantime, accept that your body is stressed and try to make the healthiest decision you can in order to combat that stress. Are you able to exercise? Do yoga? I recommend it if you are capable of doing it. If you are not capable of doing it alone, perhaps you have a friend who can go with you? Try to focus on these things; TAKING CARE OF YOURSELF despite what the alcoholic is doing, saying, etc.

Try your very best not to hyper-focus on what she is doing; what she has done in the past; or WHY she is acting the way she is acting. When you find yourself hyper-focusing on the behavior of another person, understand and accept and remind yourself that it is an unhealthy OBSESSION. Make the conscious decision to either: Continue to be obsessed with this person, to obsess about something else, or to BEAT the obsession.

If you truly need to understand WHY she is doing what she is doing, etc, start reading books that explain the disease in practical terms. Just go to the libary and grab a few that are written from a MEDICAL point of view. Shift your focus, shift your obsession AWAY from the person and toward THE DISEASE. This is a way to BEAT the obsession.

These things will help you gain a stronghold, help you get a firmer grip. When you feel youself sliding, get yourself to a meeting, and focus on these other things. Make up your mind that you will not react to the alcoholic. Then, take action to STOP reacting to the alcoholic. It takes a lot of self-talk, and a lot of self-motivations, and a lot of self-discipline, but only at first. The more you PRACTICE it, the more automatic it becomes. These things are just like changing any other habit, or learning any other new behavior.

Learn how to identify her unhealthy behaviors, lies, manipulations, etc. Then, do not allow her to engage you. DETACH emotionally. Stop referring to her by name when you talk about her to others such as in meetings or to friends. Stop calling her "your" anything (let go of the delusion that you own or possess anyone).

OK, gotta run. I hope something here helps. Have a good week.