Freude

Hi everyone. I'm new to this forum. I am an ACOA, and was once very active in Alateen and AlAnon. I find myself, decades later and for the first time in my life, utterly drawn to and quickly falling hopelessly in love with a recovering alcoholic. Not a man who measures his "birthday" in years, rather in days (after a slip a few weeks ago).

I am going to give you all the facts because I really need to understand what is going on in my heart!!

We are both separated from our spouses. We met through a separation and divorce support/social group.

Before I knew about his alcoholism, I was drawn to him by a force stronger than I have ever experienced. I found myself denying any hope that he'd be interested in me, describing him to my friends as a god, and me as a mortal.

He was! He is! He reached out to me, in a loving and passionate manner.

He's in recovery, and he is working his program very seriously. So seriously, after a little while he told me he can't get involved in a romantic relationship. OK, I thought. I'm OK keeping this a close friendship. Whatever I can do to support his recovery. I just need to be near him and try to understand why I am so attached to him.

We are a perfect couple in the most romantic sense imaginable. Turns out nothing fuels love more than chasteness and innocent affection. He's working his program, and I speak the language! I used to "twelve step" in high school, my mom and I would speak together at open meetings. I am very comfortable in Bill's world. So we've seemed to be great for each other.

We are not dating. Right? But we are spending time together, and he strokes my hand in the movies, and kisses me tenderly goodnight. We talk every day, and I am walking on air after I see or speak to him. He is sending me poetry, and I am sharing music. I told him I put his anniversary date in my calendar, and he was pleased and said I am an accountability partner for him. Well that made me feel incredible. I feel like a positive force in his life, and he makes me so incredibly happy at a time that would otherwise be very hard for me. I support his program completely. He has what sounds like a very good sponsor with 18 years, and he attends meetings every day.

I desperately want permission to love him. He's an amazing man. He is (except for this one small thing) a dream come true. He treats me with so much tenderness and honesty. Even though I tell myself he will get his legs underneath him, and eventually meet a woman in AA who understands him more than I do, and I will be heartbroken when he falls in love with someone else (because let's be honest - I feel completely undeserving of him), I don't want to stop. I want to be his steadfast, patient, loving friend. I want him to continue to treat me as a suitor from the 1940's would because it feels amazing. More than anything, I want him to realize, 9 months from now (because a year seems too long) that we are soul mates, and I want our happiness to give him confidence and strength in his recovery.

Do these stories ever end well? How can I tell my heart to stop loving him? Is it possible that we are meant to be together? Because I have never felt like this with anyone before. Are we going to bring out the best in each other? How could I ever risk walking away from feelings this strong?

Please help. I am here for your experience and advice.

MissFixit

Your post speaks of a strong attraction. Your head is trying to keep you grounded. Why do you think that is?

Do you know the phrase magical thinking?

Bernadette

He's an amazing man. He is (except for this one small thing) a dream come true

It's not one small thing and it isn't an exception.

It is a part of him. I find it dangerous to think of someone as all I ever wanted except for__________________.

I would need to accept him 100% as he is, today. If I can do that and I am being honest with myself and I am happy and not hurting myself then I'd keep going along and see what will become of us. More is always revealed, and things happen that we cannot predict, so I try to stay in today and love the people I love exactly as they are, today.

I don't know how long you've been separated from your spouse but I know I needed some good therapy after my divorce to figure out how to take 100% responsibility for 50% of the "failure to thrive" of my marriage! That really got me in a good head/heart space for new relationships.

My dad was an alcoholic when I was growing up - I have avoided serious romantic relationships w/ alcoholics, active or recovered, I don't think I could handle it. Made a mess out of a non-A marriage because of my codie upbringing, marrying a person whose irresponsible habits I couldn't tolerate and I wanted to be the one who made a difference in his life and got him to realize his potential! Failed miserably at that as I deserved to!

Seems like you are going slow, and that is a good thing...also since you've been around the rooms you know it takes daily effort to work a program, and just talking the talk is just that!
good luck!
peace-
b

GiveLove

Is he planning to divorce his wife? Are you planning to divorce your husband?

I'm not a prude by any stretch of the imagination, but I was, not too long ago, deeply in love with a man who was "separated, and in the process of divorce."

This did not turn out to be true, not for several years. My dream of love became a nightmare of epic proportions, a nightmare I am just now feeling recovered from. And I, like you, thought I was smart enough and savvy enough to trust my instincts.

If you are both willing to permanently sever ties with your existing spouses, there doesn't seem to be any reason why you can't see where this goes.

You have read the stories here, and know the risks. He may relapse at any time. He may relapse many times. He may turn out to be someone completely different than this romantic figure he is cutting for you. (we are all on our very best behavior when we are courting) He may make your life a living hell.

He may not.

You have a vision of romantic love that is not based in reality at the moment.......but time and familiarity tends to make clearer what is real, and what is fantasy. I'm glad your mind is helping to balance out the actions of your heart. This will keep you safe.

If/when you are both free, and if you accept the risks and know you are going into this with eyes wide open...well...what is it you want to know?

Good luck!!!

coffeedrinker

I wish I could answer the burning question of whether love stories such as this ever end well! I am a rather hopeless romantic, so I'd not be the one to go there.

But, can I make a couple of comments?

You say he is working a strong program. You also said he had a "slip" a few weeks ago. Hmmmm. (Not much detail there - was he sober for 20 years and had a death in the family, or accidentally took communion wine?)

He said that he wants to put his sobriety first (my paraphrase) and therefore, he should have no romantic relationship for one year. Well, I beg to differ, he IS having a romantic relationship. You don't have to end up in the sack in order for an outing with a woman who is attracted to you to be a "date".

Why oh why do you feel you do not deserve this wonder-man? I understand attraction, and you are (due to your powerful feelings) putting him on a pedestal. But, he is seemingly putting you upon one as well (evidenced by his magnificient treatment of you). Why do you believe the feelings don't go both ways?

Also: I'd like to point out what you already surely know. Chemistry is just that: chemicals are firing in your brain and that's what is happening when we feel what is called infatuation. The thing about infatuation is that it's incredibly powerful, and we truly do not see people as they really are (to a degree that is). Anyway, what I was going to say that you already know, is that it doesn't last. Chemically is not possible; that's why we move into a more mature relationship that is stable so we can get on with the things of life.

If I were to give you one piece of advice, right now it would be to ask this man-god just what his boundary is with regard to a romantic relationship. (I don't believe it's possible to do the "just friends" thing with him) If he states that he wishes to be your friend, for you to be a support person, I would then suggest talking about the 40's style treatment, and if he is honest and intelligent, you guys should have a conversation about the mixed messages, your desires, and ask him to be straight up about his.

I would not say "all is lost" but there is much muddiness and he doesn't seem to be being very truthful about what he wants from you. I don't know this guy, but I sincerely hope he doesn't have a sixth sense that you are someone he could take advantage of - in whatever form - and leave you deeply hurt down the road. If I take the story at face value, I would say that he too is attracted to you, but he's trying (perhaps not very hard) to keep the one-year rule.

Kittyboo

Wow, Freude, it sounds like you are on a whirlwind romance and you can't even breathe....... sloooooow down.

I've been there, becoming so captivated by someone and their "godliness" that I completely lost myself ...completely, and i'm just finding myself again.

Gosh, I read so many parallels in your statement as to my experience. I too fell HEAD OVER HEALS for someone, who had left his wife, in fact, told me he was divorced. I completely ignored EVERY red flag there was and picked up and moved my life to be with this most amazing man.... because I just had to be "near him to understand why I was so attached to him".
He too, was an alcoholic , the difference being an active one. But he kept me pretty protected from really knowing him. But I heard all of the " I have goals, I can control it, I can stop......yada yada yada "

Then I got the "I can't be in a romantic relationship right now."

I thought, omg, I understand, but you are SO worth the wait, i'll be there for you, because omg, I can't imagine feeling this way about anyone else..... my eyes were eyes wide shut!

But of course, I was there as his confidant, whenever he needed.... I don't want to be with you, but i'm going to throw in every mixed signal I can. And that he did. And I stayed.
And then BAM! He told me that the ex wife he had, who he described as a horrible, evil woman, who he could never ever imagine being tortured by again, who cheated on him, who called him worthles...." well, she's still the love of my life, and i'm moving her here to be with me."

My world was turned upside down. So much background in my life which I understand why I was so attached to this man now... but I also JUST found out that he LIED to me the entire time, he was planning to get back with her long before he admitted.

Sweetheart, i'm not saying that this man is lying to you. Everyone's situation is different, however, I will say that what I learned is that a common theme among these alcoholics is that they are the most charming, cunning manipulative people to grace the earth. I will never ever even consider a date with someone who I know has a drinking problem.
That is just a personal choice, because the pain that goes along with it can be overwhelming, heart wrenching and self esteem crushing. I will not invite those traits and the possibility of that experience in my life.

I don't have half of the experience that many of the amazing men and women have here as far as life with an alcoholic. But I know what it's like to become so consumed with someone that you lose yourself along the way.
Please please, take a moment and stop and think about YOU. If I could go back and change my life in the past year, I would have hung up the phone after the first red flag when I spoke to my oh so Godly man.

Be well and Hugs.

husbandofacoa

If he is still drinking you are not the perfect couple. Being a drunk is not one small thing.

Why are we alanon's drawn to these types of people? Because we are as sick as they are!

myawakening

Wow Kittyboo...I can't think of a single thing to add...except BULLSEYE!

FindingPeace1

I see a number of red flags...

(after a slip a few weeks ago).

Slip ups mean you have a long road ahead of you. Don't minimize this.

We are both separated from our spouses.

You're married and so is he. Don't you want to be complete with one relationship before starting the next and have a future partner be 100% available? You are choosing someone unavailable. That is your gunk to work out. You're not ready to pick someone that is available.

I found myself denying any hope that he'd be interested in me, describing him to my friends as a god, and me as a mortal.

This concerns me the most. Does this sound like self love? Does this sound like you value yourself #1? Does this sound like it could be a relationship of equals? I have been there! But to have a successful relationship, you can't have this dynamic.

I just need to be near him and try to understand why I am so attached to him.

Don't we get the advice on here all the time that we just need to be AWAY from them (in space or in our minds) to understand our attachment? You explained your attachment well. I think you do understand. But if you feel like you don't deserve "a god" and you get one (in your mind), it feels good. But you aren't unmarried. He's not unmarried and he's not giving himself to you. So what do you really have?

We are not dating. Right? But we are spending time together, and he strokes my hand in the movies, and kisses me tenderly goodnight.

Sounds like dating to me.

I feel like a positive force in his life, and he makes me so incredibly happy at a time that would otherwise be very hard for me.

Can you hear the codependency in this? Helping.

I desperately want permission to love him.

The beauty is, love doesn't come with permission. You DO love him. Just don't have that tell you what actions are best for you. Love is just love.

(because let's be honest - I feel completely undeserving of him),

Again, I talked about this one. This is YOUR recovery to work through. I dare say he is a pleasant distraction from your own recovery, but he's not helping keep you focused on you.

and I want our happiness to give him confidence and strength in his recovery.

More codependency.

So, back to you. Learning to love you. Working on a goal of being in a relationship when you are available and the person you love is available, too. Working on a goal of a relationship of deep respect between equals.

You can do it.

Good luck.

Hugs.

Buffalo66

It must feel good to be having these feelings.

It is hard for me to read, though, and I instinctively feel afraid for you.

I want to scream RUN!!

Listen, I have been on a ride with a man that I have a child with. You can click on my handle and read through my posts. I have been so in love with him. I became blinded. He seemed too good to be true...He seemed so charismatic..so loving.

He turned out to be a long term con man, addict, narcissist. He is abusive, cunning, and more manipulative than I could put into words. I still, after 9 years, get swooned by him,and he is terribly ABUSIVE. His alcoholism took over, but when he has been more moderate the behavior is still bad.

I hope he is good for you, but, I have one phrase for you to consider no matter WHAT comes out of your feelings for him...When it comes to an alcoholic,and addict..

"If it seems too good to be true, IT IS"

harleyd101

I just have to put this out there...you are separated, and going through a divorce? The easiest way to not have to deal with pain is to get ourselves another significant other. That takes the focus off of us and then we dont have to look at ourselves. I didn't see any information about your soon to be ex-husband. What are the circumstances surrounding that divorce?

I speak from that which I know, and today I realize that I ended up with my EXABF shortly after I went through a divorce. The people that we find ourselves attracted to at that time are people that are in the same amount of pain that we are, even though consciously we don't recognize that. I also find that if it starts out with a BANG, it's ends with a fizzle....

I see red flags here everywhere, and I would love to be that romantic, because I am a romantic at heart. The fact that he drank such a short time ago leads me to believe that you are getting yourself into something that could potentially be a very bad situation. If he was sincere about giving it a year and not having a romatic relationship with you, there would be none of the gestures you described above.

I know that some people say the easiest way to get over one man is to get yourself another, but what ends off happening is you just bring all that crap from the previous relationship into the next. I find with myself that when I want something, I want it right now. There is no rush! The fact is that if this man feels about you the way you feel about him, he will wait for the year to get his sobriety back on solid ground, which should be his ONLY priority. I am also a recovering alcoholic, so I know how hard it is to put my sobriety first AND be in a relationship. Just food for thought.....

Kittyboo

Wow, Anvil....that was great. Such great comparisons. I needed to read those as well.
Thanks for that

nodaybut2day

How can I tell my heart to stop loving him?

You can't force feelings to go away. I've tried. Feelings are feelings, and when denied they always burn hotter. You can however protect yourself from the actions that may come from these feelings. I spent a LONG time addicted to my XAH, and when we were first apart, I itched to call him, to talk to him, to make him feel better, to check my cell phone every second...I knew my weakness was there, and I knew what the consequences would be, so I took steps. I waited to return calls. I kept myself busy. I left my cell at home. After a while, I realized that the urgency was something false I had created for myself to keep the drama high.

Is it possible that we are meant to be together?

It is possible. And if it is, what's the harm in waiting and slowing down to see what really happens?

Because I have never felt like this with anyone before.

I think that this is something we often tell ourselves to justify doing something we don't feel is wise. It's possible you've never been this nuts over someone before; does it mean you should throw caution to the wind and ignore all the red flags?

How could I ever risk walking away from feelings this strong?

What "risk" is there? If he is truly worth it, truly committed to his recovery, and if you are truly meant to be together, then it'll happen. Trust in the universe to lead you there.

LaTeeDa

Ah, wouldn't it be lovely if we could live a fairy tale? I used to think so, and I used to try and convince myself it was possible, too. Fantasies are fun, as long as we realize they are fantasies and not reality.

Reality is there are no perfect people. Dreams can come true, but my experience has been that when they do, they aren't exactly what I had in mind.

Magical thinking has done much harm in my life, so now I prefer to stay in reality. We are all flawed human beings doing the best we can to walk our path in this life. For the longest time, I was convinced that there was someone out there who could make me happy. Depending on someone else to make me happy always ended badly.

I've learned that the 'instant attraction' is not love. It is my need for fantasy. True love is about two separate, equal adults who care about and respect each other. It's not about putting anyone on a pedestal, or feeling unworthy. If I had the feelings you describe at this stage in my life, I would RUN back to my therapist.

L

FindingPeace1

Fabulous post, as always.

GrowingPains

Good stuff has been posted here. I think you're on the right track to explore this person who interests you so much. Just observe and be honest with yourself regarding what you see and feel. Enjoy all the chemistry and positive stuff you're experiencing.

My only hard line suggestion would be wait to involve yourself financially or legally in any way (including cohabitation). That stuff can wait until you're absolutely sure it's right for you.

Freude

First, what a wonderful welcome to this forum. Secondly, I want to thank you for your thorough and personal responses to my situation. I wouldn't have posted here if I didn't realize this was probably a very bad idea but I am having trouble listening to my head. I knew you would be able to help me with that. A few more points:

Yes, we're both separated from our spouses. I am confident (in my head, not just my heart) that these are permanent. I have grown so much since my husband and I decided to divorce...it's my initiative, and over the past year I feel great about that decision. We're on good terms. I wish him all the best. BUT! I recognized myself in a post, in that I married an underachiever who I thought I could inspire to greatness. OK I am catching on to the pattern. ;-) I can't be as certain about my friend, but I'm as convinced as I can reasonably be about it.

Self esteem, and love. Yep - HUGE problem for me. Lifelong problem. Not unusual to ACOAs, I understand. I've been to counseling, and have tried to work on this. I am confident reporting that I made zero progress in this regard. My marriage didn't help that at all. Perhaps that's part of the attraction to my alkie...he seems to care about me. But lots of people do, just not him. OK, something to NOT IGNORE.

Con games. You have reminded me that alcoholics can be the most incredibly charming manipulators in the world. Much as I hate thinking of my guy this way (he's done nothing to demonstrate this to me), I've asked myself how I would feel if he was treating one or more other women like he's treating me (romantic and attentive). That would definitely temper my infatuation. So I am trying to assume that he is (or will be). Because let's face it, that's not a long shot for any man, especially a man coming out of a bad marriage.

Now the good news: I wouldn't call this obsession. I have lots of friends and a very active social life independent of him that I cherish. He goes to meetings almost every day and is involved in his church and spends a lot of time at his gym. My feelings for him, I think, are not jealous or possessive. If we were actually in a relationship, there's always that risk (especially in a new relationship), but we're not. Yes we have a romance, but that's different. I know it's a loophole, and included in what he's *not* supposed to do.

Now the bad news: I heard the truth. He told me no relationship, and I said anything you need, but I haven't discouraged the romance. I crave it. I ENcourage it. If I were honoring that need of his, I wouldn't let that happen at all. He acts this way, and it's something my heart clearly needs a lot of, but it may be an obstacle to his sobriety and my well being. I need to think about that one a lot.

I'm going to re-read all of your posts. Thank you for your help. I promise you I am going to work on this. So what do you think I need more? ACOA or AlAnon?

xo

Freude.

Gold

Thank you anvil head
Great post.....head a spinnin" now! Awesome powerful stuff.


Sorry Freude
So many inspirational wise responses preceede mine
I have nothing further to add.

Freude

Ok, I'm making no progress with this. We watch a lot of movies...perfect because 1) no booze, and 2) we get to sit next to each other in the dark and hold hands. Or, on my sofa and do a fair bit more than that.

I am reading a lot of posts on this subject all over the board about making choices for US - what do WE want for ourselves? Well, spending time with this man makes me feel amazing. And still, as we lay entwined on my sofa, he said "Joy, I am an alcoholic." I think he's afraid of what me getting involved with him will do to me. And, no doubt, what that means for him, too. Ugh. IT FEELS SO GOOD, and I mean emotionally. He inspires me to be the best version of me. I think I bring out good things in him, too. And the chemistry is so intense. Though we continue to exercise restraint, it's a losing battle. I just can't turn away from this relationship. So, for now, the most I can do is feature the red flags, and keep them front of mind every single day. And try to hold back a little bit so he can hold back, too. And I think perhaps it's time to find a local AlAnon meeting.

barb dwyer

Hi Freude and welcome to SR.

My instinct tells me you are young.

Because the one thing I'm compelled to say is :

there are some things we can only learn through experience.

I truly hope you'll find that AlAnon meeting.