Learning slowly
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Learning slowly
So I'm suffering with a roommate recently added to our household who has a serious attention seeking/egotistical/and emotionally manipulative personality.
Basically my EX but without the binge drinking.
I have found that I walk on eggshells and make all kinds of effort to get along with him only to find myself jumping through all the old hoops and suffering the same old emotional trauma while he gets his jollies from it. I even went so far one day as to make excuses for him to other people as to why he acts this way.
It is clear to me now that my HP is giving me a lesson in how to handle this type of person. My EX was this kind of narcissist and it got excused (by me) time and time again because he had an illness that had changed him, but I learned the truth and left him.
With this new roommate it is clear that I have a long way yet to go but I'm getting there. I vowed to myself this morning that I will use the tools I've learned to detach from him and leave him responsible for his behavior. I will not excuse him. I will not find some illness to take pity on him for. I will not play his reindeer games and be manipulated by him.
My morning reading at the site Getting Past your Past was so eerily on point for me today that I felt compelled to post it for you.
The Right To Swing Your Arm Replay II
January 15, 2010 by Susan J. Elliott
As requested:
I have to say that lately I’ve been hearing A LOT about people taking WAY too much responsibility for not being “understanding” enough because their partner had some sort of “condition” (ADHD, depression, grief, mental illness, alcoholism, etc etc etc).
People who are suffering from any one thing have two responsibilities: 1) to get help for it and 2) to not abuse or use or mistreat anyone while they are suffering.
There are NO excuses for abusing or mistreating anyone. I don’t care who you are or what your affliction is. You have no right. Not for a day, an hour, or a second.
To keep reading...Getting Past Your Past
Hugs.
Alice
Basically my EX but without the binge drinking.
I have found that I walk on eggshells and make all kinds of effort to get along with him only to find myself jumping through all the old hoops and suffering the same old emotional trauma while he gets his jollies from it. I even went so far one day as to make excuses for him to other people as to why he acts this way.
It is clear to me now that my HP is giving me a lesson in how to handle this type of person. My EX was this kind of narcissist and it got excused (by me) time and time again because he had an illness that had changed him, but I learned the truth and left him.
With this new roommate it is clear that I have a long way yet to go but I'm getting there. I vowed to myself this morning that I will use the tools I've learned to detach from him and leave him responsible for his behavior. I will not excuse him. I will not find some illness to take pity on him for. I will not play his reindeer games and be manipulated by him.
My morning reading at the site Getting Past your Past was so eerily on point for me today that I felt compelled to post it for you.
The Right To Swing Your Arm Replay II
January 15, 2010 by Susan J. Elliott
As requested:
I have to say that lately I’ve been hearing A LOT about people taking WAY too much responsibility for not being “understanding” enough because their partner had some sort of “condition” (ADHD, depression, grief, mental illness, alcoholism, etc etc etc).
People who are suffering from any one thing have two responsibilities: 1) to get help for it and 2) to not abuse or use or mistreat anyone while they are suffering.
There are NO excuses for abusing or mistreating anyone. I don’t care who you are or what your affliction is. You have no right. Not for a day, an hour, or a second.
To keep reading...Getting Past Your Past
Hugs.
Alice
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My boss is teaching me many lessons too. Raging, angry, drunk lunatic. lol.
She was me about 10 years ago. I sure is eye opening to look back in time to a mirror.
Good post. Thanks for the reading.
She was me about 10 years ago. I sure is eye opening to look back in time to a mirror.
Good post. Thanks for the reading.
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Originally Posted by ItsmeAlice 
I think what I liked so much about it is the simplicity of it.
I can look at physically, or even verbally, abusive husbands or roommates or whatever and say, "get away", but I see my own husband, who is so much mellower...and I second guess and third guess and quadruple guess myself. Maybe he's not an alcoholic, maybe I can live with the amount of communication he offers. Etc. etc.
But here is a woman saying, "Stuff it if my boundary seems extreme. It is my boundary and I respect MYSELF!" Wow.
I respect myself.
Trip on that.If he does not respect me, I am still going to be respected because I will respect myself.
My anger at his behavior is because if I am depending on him for respect and he disrespects me, I am left with none. Because I am not respecting my own boundaries.
From the link above:
"Yes, you have rights. You have the right to be quiet and be crazy and be obstinate and say nothing. Yes you have those rights. And more! Look up the Constitution.
But I have rights too. And that right is to not put up with stuff-triggering things that make me crazy. Even if that thing is nothing. Even if what you are doing is labeled “Nothing” as in “What am I doing? I’m sitting here minding my own business! What am I doing? Nothing!” Well, nothing makes me pretty crazy. It makes most people crazy but abandonment/neglect/passive “just doing nothing” father/crazy mother people REALLY crazy.
And you have the right to be that way. And I have the right to not accept it.
You have the right to swing your arm and flap like a bird and act like a nut. But your right to swing your arm ends at the tip of my nose.
Once your right impinges my right, we have a problem.
And we have a problem"
THANKS!
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In all honesty, I liked a lot of it at the beginning, but she pretty much lost me completely at the end. and I have abandonment issues, and I often REALLY REALLY want to know what is going on in someone's head.
but, I sort of figure that's my stuff right? and I need to deal with it however "triggered" I am. if I turned this around I do have the right to not discuss my intimate feelings and thought processes with someone if I am not ready and any amount of repeatedly asking nicely and then going all crazy doesn't make a difference to that, and not fulfilling someone elses needs doesn't make it abusive. I can have things going on that are difficult and that I am working on internally and however intimate we are and however much you demand "SHARE" (and I have BEEN the yelling person), doesn't change my absolute right to the space INSIDE MY OWN HEAD.
If my other behaviour is unsettling and baffling you that much, and you've asked me once, detach and go about your business.
and it feels that although she says that they have the right to not respond, somehow she is handing out responsibility for her feeling triggered.
I don't know, I gave up close to the end: did I miss the point?
but, I sort of figure that's my stuff right? and I need to deal with it however "triggered" I am. if I turned this around I do have the right to not discuss my intimate feelings and thought processes with someone if I am not ready and any amount of repeatedly asking nicely and then going all crazy doesn't make a difference to that, and not fulfilling someone elses needs doesn't make it abusive. I can have things going on that are difficult and that I am working on internally and however intimate we are and however much you demand "SHARE" (and I have BEEN the yelling person), doesn't change my absolute right to the space INSIDE MY OWN HEAD.
If my other behaviour is unsettling and baffling you that much, and you've asked me once, detach and go about your business.
and it feels that although she says that they have the right to not respond, somehow she is handing out responsibility for her feeling triggered.
I don't know, I gave up close to the end: did I miss the point?
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Originally Posted by JenT1968
I don't know, I gave up close to the end: did I miss the point?
In an ideal world, we would get that we are "all One" and the boundary thing would become moot. But we are not Enlightened. We are the fragile, imperfect, wonderful critters that we are. We each have our own constellation of wounds and fears to work through. Those cause us to have our own constellation of boundaries that we need to feel safe, right or wrong.
It reminds me of a women that rented a room from us when I was growing up. She couldn't sleep in a room without 2 doors due to sexual abuse from her dad when she was growing up. She felt scared and wanted an out. It wasn't a boundary I needed, but it was hers and she acknowledged she needed it to stay safe and she followed it.
I am starting to think boundaries are like that. Which is why no one can say, "That's the right boundary for you." (unless its protecting yourself or your children from abuse, which seems universal)
The author, due to her past, needed a partner to not stonewall. To say, "I can't talk about it now, but can later." That is what she needed to feel safe. Maybe the next day, she wouldn't, but at that time, she did. And she was honoring where she was by acknowledging (to herself) and saying (to him) what she needed (and taking action).
I didn't get she was handing out responsibility, but that she was owning she was particularly wounded around stonewalling and it triggered her and she couldn't hang with it. She respected his right to do it, but that she needed to take herself away from it to honor her own needs.
Maybe I CAN say my AH's inability to apologize is unacceptable to me. Or that I deserve a partner that will talk about his past relationships, or our current problems. Or that if he has lied and hid things in the past, I have a right to assume he will again and that I don't need to stay with someone that does that. And no one can say that is unreasonable because it is simply what I need to feel safe right now, right or wrong. That is is respectful of ME to acknowledge (to myself) that those things are very important to me, right now.
He still maintains his right to not communicate, but I still have the right to not share my life and heart with someone that won't.
w
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Thanks WoaD (I like calling you woad, makes me picture you as a Boudicca-type woman, empowered and strong, and painted blue, okay perhaps it breaks down there Lol)
your explanation is very clear, I don't think I could see through the anger and fear that I felt came through (MY issues)
your explanation is very clear, I don't think I could see through the anger and fear that I felt came through (MY issues)
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Originally Posted by wifeofadrinker
Maybe I CAN say my AH's inability to apologize is unacceptable to me. Or that I deserve a partner that will talk about his past relationships, or our current problems. Or that if he has lied and hid things in the past, I have a right to assume he will again and that I don't need to stay with someone that does that. And no one can say that is unreasonable because it is simply what I need to feel safe right now, right or wrong. That is is respectful of ME to acknowledge (to myself) that those things are very important to me, right now.
w
w
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The tiggering discussion is poignant for me in that I found myself saying that the roommates behavior triggered my feelings from my realtionship with my EX.
I've come to the conclusion that saying I was triggered is somehow saying that I overreacted or had some sort of improper response to the roommate's behavior. If I was triggered that is for me to deal with and yes it does make it harder for me to work through the problem for myself. What triggering does not do is put the problem on me. I may have a sensitivity to such behavior, but it does not make the behavior any less offensive.
I've done this my whole life. I've been hurt or affected by someone's behavior and I've found a way to make an excuse for it and find something I must have done to cause it. Well, this is the lesson I'm learning. His retched self is his problem. I have every right to walk away and be offended. I have every right to interpret his behavior the way I do and act accordingly in my own defense.
He is supposed to be here on a temporary basis so the homeowner and I are hoping he moves out soon. I will avoid him if I feel like it, but I refuse to let it alter how I live my life. I will interact with him if I get something from the discourse, and I will hold close to my boundaries with him.
I'm in no danger from him at all. He cannot harm me only set off my codie alarms so I will use this 'opportunity' from my higher power to learn how to work through these kinds of encounters.
Great discussion!!
Alice
I've come to the conclusion that saying I was triggered is somehow saying that I overreacted or had some sort of improper response to the roommate's behavior. If I was triggered that is for me to deal with and yes it does make it harder for me to work through the problem for myself. What triggering does not do is put the problem on me. I may have a sensitivity to such behavior, but it does not make the behavior any less offensive.
I've done this my whole life. I've been hurt or affected by someone's behavior and I've found a way to make an excuse for it and find something I must have done to cause it. Well, this is the lesson I'm learning. His retched self is his problem. I have every right to walk away and be offended. I have every right to interpret his behavior the way I do and act accordingly in my own defense.
He is supposed to be here on a temporary basis so the homeowner and I are hoping he moves out soon. I will avoid him if I feel like it, but I refuse to let it alter how I live my life. I will interact with him if I get something from the discourse, and I will hold close to my boundaries with him.
I'm in no danger from him at all. He cannot harm me only set off my codie alarms so I will use this 'opportunity' from my higher power to learn how to work through these kinds of encounters.
Great discussion!!
Alice
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The beautiful thing about long-term recovery is that your triggers get more and more blunt over time. These days, I have one trigger left, and you pretty much have to whack it with a hammer to get me to react to it (infidelity) But heavens, I used to have so many (because of the violence of my youth).
I'm not sure what I think about triggers for codependency any more, for that reason. I don't see anyone else as being responsible for not triggering me any more. I see that I always have a choice: Do I want to have someone in my life/room/space who is like this, or do I not?
Much of the power of a "trigger" went away when I realized that I TRUSTED MYSELF to walk away from anything or anyone that I felt wasn't acceptable to me. Triggers, for me, were grounded in a feeling of helplessness and a lack of trust in my own ability to react self-protectively.
You have the right to walk away (and should, so you don't get his cooties on you) Being offended is optional, but certainly your right too if he's nasty.
There will come a day when someone like your roommate elicits the following reaction:
"Swell. Another jerk. Oh well. I think I'll have another pretzel and go for a walk."
You're well on your way there, Alice. Your roommate is what he is -- doesn't sound like anyone I'd want to share airspace with very often if you can avoid it. Gets mighty tiresome being around jerks
I realize you're stuck with this dope, so sending you good juju that he'll be gone soon!
I'm not sure what I think about triggers for codependency any more, for that reason. I don't see anyone else as being responsible for not triggering me any more. I see that I always have a choice: Do I want to have someone in my life/room/space who is like this, or do I not?
Much of the power of a "trigger" went away when I realized that I TRUSTED MYSELF to walk away from anything or anyone that I felt wasn't acceptable to me. Triggers, for me, were grounded in a feeling of helplessness and a lack of trust in my own ability to react self-protectively.
You have the right to walk away (and should, so you don't get his cooties on you) Being offended is optional, but certainly your right too if he's nasty.
There will come a day when someone like your roommate elicits the following reaction:
"Swell. Another jerk. Oh well. I think I'll have another pretzel and go for a walk."
You're well on your way there, Alice. Your roommate is what he is -- doesn't sound like anyone I'd want to share airspace with very often if you can avoid it. Gets mighty tiresome being around jerks
I realize you're stuck with this dope, so sending you good juju that he'll be gone soon!
Last edited by GiveLove; 01-15-2010 at 05:09 PM.
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Thank you for the hugs TC. I went for my daily walk with my pups and we had a great time. I am working on being the pack leader again and my pups seem to find that humorous. See, they took on quite a defensive posture over me over the years with XABF. I thought as I began to relax and feel more confident they would back down a little, but I've learned it's more important that I step back up and take the role of pack mama. So there we are walking up and down the street they're barking, I'm laughing, and we are all trying to be the one out in front. I forget my troubles so quickly around them.
**
Thank you GL for reminding me that cooties can be avoided and I can let go of being offended especially when he seems to thrive on that as well.
Oh, and bring on the juju..I love good juju!
Alice
**
Thank you GL for reminding me that cooties can be avoided and I can let go of being offended especially when he seems to thrive on that as well.
Oh, and bring on the juju..I love good juju!
Alice
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
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hi-
I am also discovering 'triggers'
or 'traces' of toxic relationships
in my firendships.
Well, deciet and intimidation
were what we were taught love is...
so now that we're geting healthier -
we see we've invited that other element
into other relationships as well.
Well, *I* am learning it, anyway.
At least we know we're getting better.
"I'm sorry, I don't TAKE this crap any more..."
Seems to shock the SOCKS off former friends.
They actually RESENT that they can't do mean things to me any more.
Like ... *I*... have done something wrong... in stopping them.
I am also discovering 'triggers'
or 'traces' of toxic relationships
in my firendships.
Well, deciet and intimidation
were what we were taught love is...
so now that we're geting healthier -
we see we've invited that other element
into other relationships as well.
Well, *I* am learning it, anyway.
At least we know we're getting better.
"I'm sorry, I don't TAKE this crap any more..."
Seems to shock the SOCKS off former friends.
They actually RESENT that they can't do mean things to me any more.
Like ... *I*... have done something wrong... in stopping them.
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"I'm sorry, I don't TAKE this crap any more..."
Seems to shock the SOCKS off former friends.
They actually RESENT that they can't do mean things to me any more.
Like ... *I*... have done something wrong... in stopping them.
Yes, yes, yes Barb! I totally see that. As though we have somehow changed in a negative way and are harming them. Now when I look at lost friends I realize how toxic they were in my life and to hear them tell it, I went crazy after leaving XABF with all that recovery and self-discovery. I'm the toxic one...the cultist who left them high and dry.
If they really were my friends in the first place, they'd still be in my life right?
The gem in all of this is that I have friends whom I've "rediscovered" who had backed away from me when I was with XABF. I appreciate them coming around again to find me healthier and happier and wanted to be around me so I must be doing something right.
Seems to shock the SOCKS off former friends.
They actually RESENT that they can't do mean things to me any more.
Like ... *I*... have done something wrong... in stopping them.
Yes, yes, yes Barb! I totally see that. As though we have somehow changed in a negative way and are harming them. Now when I look at lost friends I realize how toxic they were in my life and to hear them tell it, I went crazy after leaving XABF with all that recovery and self-discovery. I'm the toxic one...the cultist who left them high and dry.
If they really were my friends in the first place, they'd still be in my life right?
The gem in all of this is that I have friends whom I've "rediscovered" who had backed away from me when I was with XABF. I appreciate them coming around again to find me healthier and happier and wanted to be around me so I must be doing something right.
same planet...different world
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Location: Butte, America
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Thing is-
because of the warped perception of 'love'
we thought that was what a friend...was.
When I realized that - and re-realized it...
I've just kind of 'taken time off' from having and being a friend with anyone for a whuile.
Just until my life gets under control
stops spinning
and I get settled.
Because I *obviously* haven't a CLUE yet.
I'm not 'isolating'
I'm just not 'committing' to anything right now.
because of the warped perception of 'love'
we thought that was what a friend...was.
When I realized that - and re-realized it...
I've just kind of 'taken time off' from having and being a friend with anyone for a whuile.
Just until my life gets under control
stops spinning
and I get settled.
Because I *obviously* haven't a CLUE yet.
I'm not 'isolating'
I'm just not 'committing' to anything right now.
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I'm so glad you are not isolating yourself, Barb.
I first just wanted to hide under the covers and did for a spell. Slowly but surely I found myself peeking out and wonder if there was anyone else out there.
I am quite thankful that one of those folks I reconnected with had a room to rent when I had to move a second time. I am also thankful that he has included me in the goings on around his house with friends over the holidays. They are genuine and warm people who are just plain fun to be around, which has reminded me of what I want in having friends anyway
I first just wanted to hide under the covers and did for a spell. Slowly but surely I found myself peeking out and wonder if there was anyone else out there.
I am quite thankful that one of those folks I reconnected with had a room to rent when I had to move a second time. I am also thankful that he has included me in the goings on around his house with friends over the holidays. They are genuine and warm people who are just plain fun to be around, which has reminded me of what I want in having friends anyway
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Both the good friends AND the bad friends are roadmaps to the kinds of relationships we want and need, imho. I am grateful to HP for demonstrating to me (in the only ways I'll listen...with strong positive and negative emotions) exactly what kinds of people I need to have in my life. 
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I have realised that I seem to get the messages for "danger, toxic, jerk" come thru louder and clearer than those telling me, "nice person, I like them or friendly, attracted, etc" and have wondered why.
Only thing I can come up with is that with the Good Vibes folk I am very relaxed, where-as with the other sort I am uncomfortable and uptight, and the warning bell is louder to make sure I hear and take warning.
Guess it is difference between a welcoming door bell chimes and a fire alarm.
Whatever the reason, that alarm gets me into RUN mode very fast.
God bless
Only thing I can come up with is that with the Good Vibes folk I am very relaxed, where-as with the other sort I am uncomfortable and uptight, and the warning bell is louder to make sure I hear and take warning.
Guess it is difference between a welcoming door bell chimes and a fire alarm.
Whatever the reason, that alarm gets me into RUN mode very fast.
God bless
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