Making amends as a codie
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Making amends as a codie
I've been doing a lot reflecting lately and reading up on the step study threads. I know I jumped ahead but I was looking at the AA step 8, (making amends) and I wondered if those of you who have been in Al-Anon long have done something like this...
The more I research codependence, the more I realize it's truly an addiction that has coloured and overtaken my life in the past years. If I'm honest, I don't think I've ever had a good, honest and equal relationship with a man since I started dating at 16. It's always been about saving someone, changing someone, living someone else's drama and in some cases, being abused. A lot of my friendships were similar.
As I begin to make an inventory of my marriage, I realize just how many of my friends I burned out of my life, because XAH demanded it. I wasn't forced at gunpoint; I CHOSE to cut people out of my life to appease XAH because he was my drug. He was more important.
Needless to say, I feel very guilty about how I behaved during my marriage. And I feel the need to go back and apologize to those people I hurt, ignored or insulted because...I don't know, I was wrong. I don't think a lot of them will give a hoot about me anymore but just the same.
Is this asking for trouble?
The more I research codependence, the more I realize it's truly an addiction that has coloured and overtaken my life in the past years. If I'm honest, I don't think I've ever had a good, honest and equal relationship with a man since I started dating at 16. It's always been about saving someone, changing someone, living someone else's drama and in some cases, being abused. A lot of my friendships were similar.
As I begin to make an inventory of my marriage, I realize just how many of my friends I burned out of my life, because XAH demanded it. I wasn't forced at gunpoint; I CHOSE to cut people out of my life to appease XAH because he was my drug. He was more important.
Needless to say, I feel very guilty about how I behaved during my marriage. And I feel the need to go back and apologize to those people I hurt, ignored or insulted because...I don't know, I was wrong. I don't think a lot of them will give a hoot about me anymore but just the same.
Is this asking for trouble?
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I don't think apologizing to people you may have hurt is asking for trouble, but I do think "jumping ahead" is asking for trouble.
In other words, I would question my motivation if I were you. Are you wanting to apologize to people to make yourself feel better? If so, then maybe you need to go back a few steps and forgive yourself first, before you start working on amends.
I'm not a 12-stepper, but I do think that the program is designed to work in the order of the numbers, not just jumping around. There is a sequence because some things really need to come before others.
L
In other words, I would question my motivation if I were you. Are you wanting to apologize to people to make yourself feel better? If so, then maybe you need to go back a few steps and forgive yourself first, before you start working on amends.
I'm not a 12-stepper, but I do think that the program is designed to work in the order of the numbers, not just jumping around. There is a sequence because some things really need to come before others.
L
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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I still don't understand this idea of 'making amends' as a codependent. I mean, so you are a bad person because you tried to help someone? I simply don't get it. You are apologising for allowing yourself to be abused or opening up yourself to be abused? What next, apologising for being murdered?
Am I supposed to make amends to my AGF for her stealing cash from my wallet? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I'll make amends to myself for setting myself up to be abused like that and taken for granted and treated like crap. But to her? Are you kidding me? Or maybe I'm just not understanding the concept here.
Am I supposed to make amends to my AGF for her stealing cash from my wallet? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I'll make amends to myself for setting myself up to be abused like that and taken for granted and treated like crap. But to her? Are you kidding me? Or maybe I'm just not understanding the concept here.
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One step builds on another. If you work through steps 1-7 first you are sure to gain understanding about step 8. it works like a system. When you decide you want to run a marathon, you don't go out and run 26 miles the first day. You work up to it. You train. You start slow and you stick with it.
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Originally Posted by hello-kitty 
One step builds on another. If you work through steps 1-7 first you are sure to gain understanding about step 8. it works like a system. When you decide you want to run a marathon, you don't go out and run 26 miles the first day. You work up to it. You train. You start slow and you stick with it.
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Working a program: If you go to a Face to Face Al Anon meeting, you will hear people talk about "working a program of recovery". Just like the alcoholics who attend AA or the addicts who attend NA, members of Al Anon have their own program. In Al Anon, you learn about the 12 steps (taken from Alcoholics Anonymous), the slogans, the serenity prayer, getting a sponsor. All of these things are highly recommended if you want to find the recovery and serenity that other members of Al Anon have found. The fundamental issue is that WE work our OWN program, and the Addict or Alcoholic works theirs.
Actually, Step 8 is a 2 parter - first we make a list of all persons we had harmed, and 2nd we become willing to make amends to them all. That's it. You make a list, and then you become willing. You don't have to worry about making the actual amends until Step 9.
In my early days, I tried doing Al Anon my way. I went to meetings. I listened. I shared a bit - usually got a laugh. I didn't get a sponsor and I just breezed thru the steps, not really working them. I can tell you that I didnt get much out of it. It wasnt until later, when my A and my life were spiraling out of control that I really committed myself to my own program of recovery in Al Anon.
Most people find it works best if you start at Step 1 and work the steps in order. There's an online step study here where you can read more about each step and some questions at the end for discussion and self examination.
When you get to step 9, the amends step, things will make a lot more sense. As codies, its important that we have someone with whom we can check in. I found I had planned amends that I didn't need to make once I examined the situation. If my son was hurt or inconvenienced by experiencing the consequences of his own bad choices because I finally set a boundary? No amends needed. etc.
Actually, Step 8 is a 2 parter - first we make a list of all persons we had harmed, and 2nd we become willing to make amends to them all. That's it. You make a list, and then you become willing. You don't have to worry about making the actual amends until Step 9.
In my early days, I tried doing Al Anon my way. I went to meetings. I listened. I shared a bit - usually got a laugh. I didn't get a sponsor and I just breezed thru the steps, not really working them. I can tell you that I didnt get much out of it. It wasnt until later, when my A and my life were spiraling out of control that I really committed myself to my own program of recovery in Al Anon.
Most people find it works best if you start at Step 1 and work the steps in order. There's an online step study here where you can read more about each step and some questions at the end for discussion and self examination.
When you get to step 9, the amends step, things will make a lot more sense. As codies, its important that we have someone with whom we can check in. I found I had planned amends that I didn't need to make once I examined the situation. If my son was hurt or inconvenienced by experiencing the consequences of his own bad choices because I finally set a boundary? No amends needed. etc.
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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Originally Posted by CatsPajamas
Working a program: If you go to a Face to Face Al Anon meeting, you will hear people talk about "working a program of recovery". Just like the alcoholics who attend AA or the addicts who attend NA, members of Al Anon have their own program. In Al Anon, you learn about the 12 steps (taken from Alcoholics Anonymous), the slogans, the serenity prayer, getting a sponsor. All of these things are highly recommended if you want to find the recovery and serenity that other members of Al Anon have found. The fundamental issue is that WE work our OWN program, and the Addict or Alcoholic works theirs.
Actually, Step 8 is a 2 parter - first we make a list of all persons we had harmed, and 2nd we become willing to make amends to them all. That's it. You make a list, and then you become willing. You don't have to worry about making the actual amends until Step 9.
In my early days, I tried doing Al Anon my way. I went to meetings. I listened. I shared a bit - usually got a laugh. I didn't get a sponsor and I just breezed thru the steps, not really working them. I can tell you that I didnt get much out of it. It wasnt until later, when my A and my life were spiraling out of control that I really committed myself to my own program of recovery in Al Anon.
Most people find it works best if you start at Step 1 and work the steps in order. There's an online step study here where you can read more about each step and some questions at the end for discussion and self examination.
When you get to step 9, the amends step, things will make a lot more sense. As codies, its important that we have someone with whom we can check in. I found I had planned amends that I didn't need to make once I examined the situation. If my son was hurt or inconvenienced by experiencing the consequences of his own bad choices because I finally set a boundary? No amends needed. etc.
Actually, Step 8 is a 2 parter - first we make a list of all persons we had harmed, and 2nd we become willing to make amends to them all. That's it. You make a list, and then you become willing. You don't have to worry about making the actual amends until Step 9.
In my early days, I tried doing Al Anon my way. I went to meetings. I listened. I shared a bit - usually got a laugh. I didn't get a sponsor and I just breezed thru the steps, not really working them. I can tell you that I didnt get much out of it. It wasnt until later, when my A and my life were spiraling out of control that I really committed myself to my own program of recovery in Al Anon.
Most people find it works best if you start at Step 1 and work the steps in order. There's an online step study here where you can read more about each step and some questions at the end for discussion and self examination.
When you get to step 9, the amends step, things will make a lot more sense. As codies, its important that we have someone with whom we can check in. I found I had planned amends that I didn't need to make once I examined the situation. If my son was hurt or inconvenienced by experiencing the consequences of his own bad choices because I finally set a boundary? No amends needed. etc.
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Yes, I'd like to know as well. I've read through the Step 1 thread. Wrote down all the questions and reflected/journaled on each of them individually over the course of the past few weeks. But...I have no sponsor. I have not been able to get to a f2f meeting due to childcare issues (and XAH issues)...so I'm sort of "lost".
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Join Date: Nov 2009
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Originally Posted by Ives
I still don't understand this idea of 'making amends' as a codependent. I mean, so you are a bad person because you tried to help someone? I simply don't get it. You are apologising for allowing yourself to be abused or opening up yourself to be abused? What next, apologising for being murdered?
Am I supposed to make amends to my AGF for her stealing cash from my wallet? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I'll make amends to myself for setting myself up to be abused like that and taken for granted and treated like crap. But to her? Are you kidding me? Or maybe I'm just not understanding the concept here.
Am I supposed to make amends to my AGF for her stealing cash from my wallet? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I'll make amends to myself for setting myself up to be abused like that and taken for granted and treated like crap. But to her? Are you kidding me? Or maybe I'm just not understanding the concept here.
Ives, your post come across with a great deal of anger toward your AGF. I don't want to put words or feelings into your mouth I am just stating what I see when I read them.
Anger toward the A that hurt us is pefectly normal and something all of us have to work through in recovery. Sometimes that anger is initially the only way we detach. But if you begin to work a true recovery program and work through the steps, by the time you reach the part of making amends you will have a much better understanding of what making amends is all about. Part of the process of working a program of recovery will help you let go of that anger by forgiving not only your A but also yourself. After you find the peace of forgiveness the amends part becomes much more understandable. At least it did for me.
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Join Date: Nov 2009
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Originally Posted by nodaybut2day
Yes, I'd like to know as well. I've read through the Step 1 thread. Wrote down all the questions and reflected/journaled on each of them individually over the course of the past few weeks. But...I have no sponsor. I have not been able to get to a f2f meeting due to childcare issues (and XAH issues)...so I'm sort of "lost".
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Location: Upstate New York
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Jumping ahead in the Steps is really not advisable. The Steps are in the order that they are in because, until one has completed working the previous Steps, one is not ready (spiritually or emotionally) to work the next Step. It can be very scary, confusing and overwhelming to contemplate working a Step that one is not ready to work.
And, yes, this is one reason why it's important to work the Steps with a sponsor (or mentor or spiritual advisor familiar with 12 Step work).
Also, as CatsPajamas indicated, the Steps are what constitutes an Al Anon program -- meetings, Fellowship, literature, etc... are there to support one in working the Steps, but there is no program without the Steps.
So, now that I've said that you really should take the Steps in order, with a sponsor, I'm not sure if I should even address the issue of how and why an Al Anon (and not all Al Anons are codependents!) "should," for her or his own mental health, emotional development and spiritual growth work Step 9 (which is the Step at which one actually makes amends; Step 8 is about getting ready to make the amends).
I guess I'll just say that when you get a sponsor and make it through Step 7, you'll know how and why you need to continue on to 8 and 9 --- and, even if you're still a bit scared, I'll be willing to bet that you'll want to do it. As far as "asking for trouble" goes, it's really not about the people to whom you are making amends -- it's about you and your relationship with your HP. And you can't be in right relationship with HP if you are not in right relationship with your fellows. Furthermore, just because you decide to "own your part" and make amends in any given situation does not mean that you have to be willing to "take on" or "suffer" trouble just because someone might want to "give" it to you. And, if you work your Steps well, then, by that point, you should have the tools necessary to deflect/detach from any trouble that anyone might try to throw your way.
freya
And, yes, this is one reason why it's important to work the Steps with a sponsor (or mentor or spiritual advisor familiar with 12 Step work).
Also, as CatsPajamas indicated, the Steps are what constitutes an Al Anon program -- meetings, Fellowship, literature, etc... are there to support one in working the Steps, but there is no program without the Steps.
So, now that I've said that you really should take the Steps in order, with a sponsor, I'm not sure if I should even address the issue of how and why an Al Anon (and not all Al Anons are codependents!) "should," for her or his own mental health, emotional development and spiritual growth work Step 9 (which is the Step at which one actually makes amends; Step 8 is about getting ready to make the amends).
I guess I'll just say that when you get a sponsor and make it through Step 7, you'll know how and why you need to continue on to 8 and 9 --- and, even if you're still a bit scared, I'll be willing to bet that you'll want to do it. As far as "asking for trouble" goes, it's really not about the people to whom you are making amends -- it's about you and your relationship with your HP. And you can't be in right relationship with HP if you are not in right relationship with your fellows. Furthermore, just because you decide to "own your part" and make amends in any given situation does not mean that you have to be willing to "take on" or "suffer" trouble just because someone might want to "give" it to you. And, if you work your Steps well, then, by that point, you should have the tools necessary to deflect/detach from any trouble that anyone might try to throw your way.
freya
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Even working through the steps yourself (as I did the first time) really helps to solidify the ground beneath your feet. When I finally made amends, I knew why I was doing it, I knew what it would do for me and for them, and I was calm, honest, candid, and loving.
If I had just started sending out letters of apology before really exploring everything else, I doubt I would've come across as authentic.
You are doing just fine. These are good thoughts to have.
You're going to be okay, noday. Honest.
If I had just started sending out letters of apology before really exploring everything else, I doubt I would've come across as authentic.
You are doing just fine. These are good thoughts to have.
You're going to be okay, noday. Honest.
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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Just wanted to chime in, sparked by Ives's reaction--
The steps are a process...if I think I know what they are about or have a pre-conceived idea of what I expect out of working the steps then I am just creating a barrier to the abundant change that working the steps can bring.
Keep an open mind. The steps are an exploration - and when I worked them, when I was rigorously honest with myself, what I learned and the changes I was able to make in my life blew my mind. One can never know beforehand what the outcome will be.
So, for example Ives, you may discover that it is indeed not your GF whom you might need to make amends to but the kid in 5th grade whose feelings you trampled...or as you said - you may need to make amends to yourself - for mistakes you've made. You really cannot predict where the steps will lead you! But when I worked them in earnest with a sponsor they sure as hell led me out of the darkness. I learned so much.
Also I discovered amends does not equal apology. Making amends is an action - it is not "words." Making amends changes something by an action - usually an ongoing action for me.
peace-
b
The steps are a process...if I think I know what they are about or have a pre-conceived idea of what I expect out of working the steps then I am just creating a barrier to the abundant change that working the steps can bring.
Keep an open mind. The steps are an exploration - and when I worked them, when I was rigorously honest with myself, what I learned and the changes I was able to make in my life blew my mind. One can never know beforehand what the outcome will be.
So, for example Ives, you may discover that it is indeed not your GF whom you might need to make amends to but the kid in 5th grade whose feelings you trampled...or as you said - you may need to make amends to yourself - for mistakes you've made. You really cannot predict where the steps will lead you! But when I worked them in earnest with a sponsor they sure as hell led me out of the darkness. I learned so much.
Also I discovered amends does not equal apology. Making amends is an action - it is not "words." Making amends changes something by an action - usually an ongoing action for me.
peace-
b
get it, give it, grow in it
Join Date: May 2007
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@ 1st I couldn't understand how the steps could apply to me as a non-addict.
Once I got it I worked them (and continue to use them as a guide)...
my life changed for the better on so many levels.
Fabulous that you understand this. It does not matter what the addict did to themselves or us...
All that matters is our own journey and how we grow spiritually, emotionally, etc.
We made mistakes - what counts is that we now learn from them and do things differently
When we know better we must do better.
Once I got it I worked them (and continue to use them as a guide)...
my life changed for the better on so many levels.
Fabulous that you understand this. It does not matter what the addict did to themselves or us...
All that matters is our own journey and how we grow spiritually, emotionally, etc.
We made mistakes - what counts is that we now learn from them and do things differently
When we know better we must do better.
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 1,636
Last night at a meeting we were reading out of the book Survival to Recovery, Chapter 4, which deals with Steps 8 and 9. The first personal story in the chapter was by an ACA person who really struggled with the idea of having to do these Steps and went into quite a lot of detail about how and why she struggled as she did. I personally always find that book kinda hard to relate to because my FoO, while certainly not perfect, was relatively highly functioning -- especially when it came to everyone being able to "have their say" & be heard and being encouraged to be open and honest about everything. But, everyone else in the group really loves the book (even when they hate it, because it does tend to deal pretty directly with a lot of the abuse issues that accompany alcoholism) and gets a lot out of it, so perhaps it would be helpful to you to check it out as you are thinking about this...And, off course, it does go through all of the other Steps, too.
freya
freya
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