tigger11

Wonderful words of wisdom from everyone, particularly LTD and Anvil. Wow! I learn SO much from this forum, each and every day I'm here.

SadButHopeful

Yeah you are completely right. I was doing ok with Alanon (it's still new to me) but sometimes I think that to do that program means that I get beaten down in the process of acceptance.

I'm thinking. It's definitely not what I signed up for, but maybe I have to accept that. Or do I want to? No, but I'm willing to work on it. I think. Until I have a day like today and a night like last night. I'm so confused.

Right now, I am NOT being the best mother I can be. How freaking HORRIBLE is that???? I want Al Anon to help. I want something to help. I want them to have us together, happily. How can I achieve that?

Absolutely!

LaTeeDa

Something I've found very helpful when I'm feeling stuck is to acknowledge my choices. We all have choices, no matter what situation we are in. Just because we don't like certain choices, doesn't mean we don't have them.

So, maybe it will help you to admit that staying with him is a choice. It's not something you are forced to do, it's something you choose. Leaving is also a valid choice, however unappealing it may be to you.

Working from the understanding that you are staying out of your own choice opens up some room for considering the consequences of that choice, and how you can take concrete action to make it work for you.

Just for now, try accepting that you have made a choice to stay with him, exactly as he is. Now, what actions can you take to make that choice work for you and your children?

L

SadButHopeful

Thank you so much. What you're saying is so true and it really helps to think about it like this.

I'm having so much trouble deciding. I mean, I suppose I really have made the choice to stay, but I am not in a place right now where I can accept this behavior. How can I get there? How can I NOT be angry at him?

I feel so horrible for saying it, and feeling it, but I feel like I hate him right now.

I've been reading "One Day At A Time In Al Anon". I read a page on resentment, and it basically turns it around and makes you feel guilty for condemning a sick person. This doesn't make sense to me. I does in a way, I would never turn around and tell someone with cancer "hey, get off your ass and work".

The problem is, that the person with cancer can't choose recovery the way an alcoholic can.

He's not choosing recovery. The way I see it, is that he's choosing to make my life miserable. How can I feel sorry for someone who is doing that??? I said this to him today.

After I spoke to him, I lashed out at him later in the day. He has still said NOTHING. Oh, and he's drinking. I think that he is too scared right now to get completely wasted, but we'll see. He said that he's afraid of me. When I get angry, I get ANGRY. Not proud of it, that's part of my bipolar disorder, but it's not like I am unjustified here.

What a life is right!!!! When I got married to him 8 years ago yesterday, I never would have thought that I'd be going through this hell.

ETA: BTW, I'm not a violent person at all, just realized I made myself sound way too crazy lol.

LaTeeDa

You sound like you believe you either have to be angry at him or pity him. You don't have to do either. In fact, it would do you loads of good to stop thinking about him at all, and focus on you.

He is who he is. Your anger, or pity, or begging, or yelling will not change that. This is what I was getting at with the choice thing. You KNOW who he is, and you have chosen to stay with him. So now you must accept the consequences of that choice. Stop making yourself a victim by expecting him to be something else. Stop telling yourself that you are justified in resenting him. You are not a victim, you are a volunteer. There is not one thing you can do to change him, so get busy changing you.

Or continue on being angry, bitter, resentful and unhappy. That's a choice, too.

L

coffeedrinker

I don't think that "acceptance" means the same as tolerating anything.

I think that "detaching with love" is about not being sucked in to his patterns, acting out and other behaviors. It is not checking up on him, trying to catch him in lies, setting traps, obsessing about him and his drinking (is he, how much, when, why). It is loving from a distance. I love my mother - she lives 30 miles away. I talk to her once or twice a week, I don't ask her how she's living her life, or tell her how to do so. I think it's like that. (although we are not wrapped up in our parents - or most anyone else - the way we are in these people we once fell in love with)

pray4joy

Lateeda and coffeedrinker hit the nail on the head.
I had a hard time "getting" the concept and held his behavior in personal contempt. Not that I don't get angry now and then, and I have accepted that there isn't anything left for me to do to make the necessary changes except for changing how I live my life...I will have to move away from him if I truly want peace and not have him behaving bad in front of me or being emotionally & verbally abusive or having him not work and "sponging" like a parasite...no I have accepted that if I stay that is how it will be.
Do I like it? No, but I like the life I know I am entitled to even if it is without him...trust me I know I'll live. I know you will too.

SadButHopeful

First off, THANK YOU all for helping me.

Wow. Makes sense. What the hell have I gotten myself into. I have to accept that he chooses to be a drunk if I stay. I have to accept that he is selfish and lazy while I'm slaving away.

I can do this, I don't check up on him anymore, ask him how much he's drinking, etc, but what makes me angry is the fact that I am doing all of the work and taking care of the kids myself without his help because he is drinking. I guess this is what I have to accept?

Yes, I am def holding his behavior in contempt, because, as I see it, HE has choices too. He can choose to get help. He can choose to give his wife a better life. Please tell me if I'm looking at it the wrong way.

coffeedrinker

I wouldn't say you're looking at it in the "wrong" way. You are correct of course in that he has choices.

But I think of it this way:
If you accept the disease modality (and I do, because of the physical changes that have occurred once someone has been compulsively drinking, because of the mental changes as well, and the basic dysfunction)
then in a way he does not right now have a choice. Similar, I think, to a severely depressed person. Can they easily get off their butt, get dressed, smile and go to a day's work of job-hunting? Well....yeah, I guess they CAN, but really, they are impaired. They just won't. So, keeping with my example, can they FORCE themself to do just that? Sure, but they will not last long. They will feel defeated, or they will have a small success and right back to the bed they go. If left untreated. My alcoholic husband would also kick it in gear if I bitched at him about household chores, or whatnot. But it never lasted.

The great thing about the "disease" of addiction, though, is he CAN choose, at any time, to put that disease, or affliction, into remission. There is treatment that WORKS for this sickness, and he gets to choose whether or not to find it.

This kind of thinking is what gives me the perspective that allows me to be compassionate for the addict, but also understand that I need boundaries, and that I still get to decide if I want them in my life. (Try, anyway, it's definitely a work in progress)

SadButHopeful

I suppose this is where my issue is right now. He's not choosing treatment. I see what you mean about being impaired. I'm bipolar, so I know what that's like, but I choose to get help when I need it. He's not choosing to get help, and for that I think he's a selfish jerk.

So I guess I have to accept that he's a selfish jerk and love him anyway if I stay with him. This is so hard.

I don't know if I can do this. I want to do this for my kids. I just don't know if I am able to. I pray that I am.

LaTeeDa

You could choose to look at it this way, or you could choose to be grateful for your children and their precious childhood, which you are participating in and he is missing out on. As the mother of a daughter who will be graduating high school this year, and a son who will be starting high school in the fall, I can tell you it goes by waaaaaaay too fast.

I believe that the words we use have a profound effect on us. Especially the words we use in our thoughts.

My mother was angry most of the time during my childhood. I know now that she was angry and resentful at my father, but at the time I only knew she was angry. Children are the center of their own universe, and parents are the world to them. My mother's anger taught me to walk on eggshells. I learned perfectionism and people-pleasing, among other things.

I grew up and married an alcoholic and repeated the examples I was shown. This is how the cycle gets perpetuated.

He cannot give you a better life. Nobody can. That is your responsibility. And it is up to you to make the choices that lead to a better life, not only for you, but for your children.

All this insight and understanding about my childhood took me until my mid-forties to sort out. Only after much self-discovery, learning, reading, and therapy have I been able to have a happy, peaceful life. This is why I urge you to get some help, especially if you choose to stay with this man. Unless you want for your children the same life you have now. They learn what they see and live, and they will repeat it. It's up to you to break the cycle.

L

SadButHopeful

I'm so sorry for all you've been through. I'm so glad that you have worked through things, and thank you so, so much for sharing what you've learned!

I'm determined to give my kids a good life. That's all I've ever wanted, to be a good mother and do the very best I can for them in every way.

I'm doing a lot of thinking and praying because I haven't reached any conclusions yet, except that for the time being, I'm staying, going to Al Anon, and making a safety net for myself and the kids in case I change my mind. I'm going to focus on being a mother and making myself happy while I'm here living with a drunk.

As for him, after my outburst the other day, he said that he's going to "try and not drink". Doesn't sound convincing and although it was LOVELY having a sober husband yesterday, I know that it's bound to happen again.

I'm going to start a separate post on that subject now, but I might keep going with this one as well because you all are really helping me to think things through.

Thank you and

SadButHopeful

Just wanted to check in here...

He still hasn't had a drink, it's been 3-4 days now. It's been great having him back, spending evenings together, and he isn't as miserable with withdrawal as he has been in the past.

I opened up to him yesterday about my thoughts about leaving. I had not brought this up yet at all when I told him how miserable I was. He was afraid that I would leave, but never said anything...

He wanted to sell my car, which has been off the road for a long time. I told him that I didn't want to sell it, but he was insisting. I finally told him that if I decided to leave that I would need that car. He was pretty upset of course, yet understands that his behavior was unbearable. I told him that I didn't have concrete plans, but that I'm doing a lot of thinking, praying, and researching what is best for our kids.

So, we keep the car.

I have mentioned AA a few times to him. When we were having this discussion, he mentioned how he was withdrawing and trying to avoid stress. I told him that I wasn't trying to upset him, I was just dealing with life, and that AA would be able to help him with his stresses and coping skills.

That's about where we're at now.

Thanks again

SadButHopeful

Well, so far he hasn't had a drink. What a relief. I'm trying to enjoy the moments, but I still worry about the future because my AH has not made a real commitment. He's not going to AA or looking at this forum, or getting any sort of treatment, and today he finally told me that he doesn't plan to "never" drink again. What's making him stop at the moment is the fear of me flipping out about it.

Damn it!!! I'm struggling between being angry that he's not committed to stopping drinking and just forgetting about it and enjoying the moment.

Still Waters

How about concentrating on you instead? Maybe get that car in driving condition.

ANEWAUGUST

Him fearing you flipping out is just delaying the inevitable. He isn't in recovery, isn't seeking recovery, he is just buying time.

Yes, he has a disease. But, if he isn't treating his disease, it will get progressively worse. That is the way alcoholism is.

You can make a choice to stay, to leave, or just to keep working on yourself, and waiting until you are ready to make a choice. If you stay, then, know that you will pretty much be a single parent. That is your choice....you can embrace it, and say, well, I am just doing this right now, for my children, or you can resent it, and be ticked off that you are a doing the job of a single parent even though you aren't.

Just has he has a choice to recover, you do too.

SadButHopeful

I knew it would happen again and it always sucks when it does. It was nearly 2 weeks of him not drinking, but his mood swings are hard to deal with. It was nice to have him back and spending time with me *sigh*

I really have a hard time focusing on myself and not him. We are ALWAYS together. We work at home together.

I've thought about what it would be like to leave, and really I don't think I'd be much happier. My main concern is my kids to begin with, and if he had visitation, I would be worried sick because he CANNOT care for them on his own. Even if he could, I would be heartbroken to have to hand them over to him for visits.

So, I'm trying to deal with this. It's so hard to accept. I'm trying to think along the lines of "for better or for worse". I believed when we got married that we were meant to be together, maybe that's not meant to change. So, if God means for us to be married, and together, then I have to accept that God gave me an AH.

Well, hard to concentrate with the whole family in the room now. Have a nice weekend

LaTeeDa

Gosh, you've just reminded me of how hopeless and defeated I felt just a few short years ago. I had given up any hope of a decent, happy life and was pretty much just waiting around for death. I had stopped caring how I looked, how my house looked, had gained 30 pounds, and basically just given up.

But, from my experience, I know that things will get worse for you. There will come a point where you just can't do it anymore. When nothing will matter but getting out of the hell you are in. That's when your life will begin.

My wishes to you for that day to arrive soon. (((())))

L

GiveLove

You DO have choices, sadbuthopeful. You are talking yourself out of them, and that makes me sad, but when you are ready to see them, you will.

Until then, I hope you'll keep hanging around here and reading and posting. I found that, even before I was ready to make any sort of a change, it helped a lot to see how others in similar situations found their way back to happiness.

Hugs,
GL

JenT1968

hey there, re the kids: him seeing them, looking after them unsupervised was one of my main reasons (or at least one of the main reasons I was willing to admit to myself) for not taking the leap, eventually, staying with him put them in more danger than leaving.

being a single parent is hard, being a single parent with a "partner" not pulling their weight is VERY hard, especially if they cause problems as well as not alleviate the burden.

That truth in no way takes away for LaTeeda's truth that he is missing out on their precious childhood, and you are getting to share it. We are allowed to find being soley responsible hard work, even when we love our children dearly.

I had to take a leap, my AH talked a lot of bullying talk about having our son overnight, that I was hurting our son by denying him this, pushing all my buttons, threats, but never action. I have stood dead firm: it has been hard, and I have had to be in scary emotional places: he can see our children if he passes a breathalyser, he can have them stay overnight if he has been sober for 3-6 months. He didn't take up the slack when we were together, he really can't be bothered to do it now, his only motivation to have our son (never our daughter) overnight would be to hurt me, if I could trust that he would lose interest in having to get DS to school and do the proper parenting bits BEFORE something harmful happened, I would let overnight stays happen: I know they wouldn't last, but my children are too precious to risk.


when I have offered him time alone with them he declines: he wants me there, to avoid the breathalyser, or to control me? who knows. Now that I am limiting his contact with me, his contact with the children has also decreased: entirely his choice.

He is aware I will bankrupt us both going through the courts rather than risk our children's safety and if he can't commit to 3 lousy months without a drink in order to secure unsupervised visitation with them how will that play with a judge?

AH is now threatening to move out of the country in order to avoid paying the £200 a month towards their upkeep, in order to make me "suffer the consequences of my [sic] choices": our children!. what a caring, devoted father.

You are doing what you believe is your best for them, there will be a way to combine that with doing your best for you too. I needed to allow my inner lioness (LOL!) to come through in order to find it for my situation.

I am woman: hear me roar (LOL!)