Statistics
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 139
Statistics
As I mentioned in my first post yesterday, I have 4 children. (12, 10, 6 and almost 2)
One of my biggest concerns is them growing up seeing his alcoholic behaviour, and thinking it's normal. Or growing up to become an alcoholic themselves. Or growing up and being in OUR shoes and living with an alcoholic.
What are the chances of this happening? They know he drinks a lot.
When my 6 year old was 4 or 5 she knew what an LCBO was and why he went there....it broke my heart.
Before I realized he was an alcoholic I used to go buy him beer and or liquor, and my kids would groan "Oh Mom, do we HAVE to go there?" They got fed up with it too.
I refuse now to buy anything, or mix drinks or grab a beer from the fridge for him.
But anyway, back to the question....I know the chances are increased...but does anyone know of any statictics?
And, what can I do to help prevent this?
Thanks
One of my biggest concerns is them growing up seeing his alcoholic behaviour, and thinking it's normal. Or growing up to become an alcoholic themselves. Or growing up and being in OUR shoes and living with an alcoholic.
What are the chances of this happening? They know he drinks a lot.
When my 6 year old was 4 or 5 she knew what an LCBO was and why he went there....it broke my heart.
Before I realized he was an alcoholic I used to go buy him beer and or liquor, and my kids would groan "Oh Mom, do we HAVE to go there?" They got fed up with it too.
I refuse now to buy anything, or mix drinks or grab a beer from the fridge for him.
But anyway, back to the question....I know the chances are increased...but does anyone know of any statictics?
And, what can I do to help prevent this?
Thanks
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Southwest
Posts: 1,207
I definitely don't know the statistics, but what would you tell me if I asked you about my situation?
Dear F&F of A,
My children are 8, 7 and 2. They adore their dad and my sons, in particular, mimic everything he does. They like his movies, they like his music, they like his TV shows, and they want to do everything that he does. My daughter (7)really only gets negative attention from him -- because he won't really acknowledge her unless she is acting out. then he yells at her to "Quit" whatever it is she is doing to get his attention, and then, finally, she can relax because Daddy has noticed her.
Thy hide around corners and spy on us when he and I "converse". They are keeping little detective notebooks and discussing our "disagreements". They refuse to go to sleep - wanting to stay up and either keep us from fighting or listening to us while I beg him to be different and he yells at me to leave him the he&* alone.
There is so much more, but this was the daily, mild version of our lives...
What do you think my children's chances are?
Dear F&F of A,
My children are 8, 7 and 2. They adore their dad and my sons, in particular, mimic everything he does. They like his movies, they like his music, they like his TV shows, and they want to do everything that he does. My daughter (7)really only gets negative attention from him -- because he won't really acknowledge her unless she is acting out. then he yells at her to "Quit" whatever it is she is doing to get his attention, and then, finally, she can relax because Daddy has noticed her.
Thy hide around corners and spy on us when he and I "converse". They are keeping little detective notebooks and discussing our "disagreements". They refuse to go to sleep - wanting to stay up and either keep us from fighting or listening to us while I beg him to be different and he yells at me to leave him the he&* alone.
There is so much more, but this was the daily, mild version of our lives...
What do you think my children's chances are?
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 72
Good threat!
I often wonder about this myself. I often feel so guilty about not removing my daughter (4) from seeing her dad drunk
but (of course there is a but)
I absolutely love watching the two of them horsing around for entire afternoons on the weekend. I love the way her eyes light up when he gets home and how she can barely get her words out fast enough to tell him everything about her day. He actually is a great dad. He will draw with her and read to her, play play dough or dolls. Whatever she wants.
If (of course there is an if as well)
we could just only do weekend mornings and afternoons, only those precious 2-3 hours after he gets home before I can see the effects of the alcohol.
I so often wander about this. I hope more posters will comment on this thread. My AH gets drunk. Every day. Sometimes worse sometimes not so bad. He doesn't get loud or mean or obnoxious. He doesn't throw up or throw stuff or pass out in the bathroom. He just gets drunk. Then he puts on his pjs, brushes his teeth and goes to bed. And apart from the fact that there is no intimacy between the two of us (forget about sex) my worries are so often for my daughter and what goes on in that smart little girl on the days she does get to see him drunk. What am I to do?
I often wonder about this myself. I often feel so guilty about not removing my daughter (4) from seeing her dad drunk
but (of course there is a but)
I absolutely love watching the two of them horsing around for entire afternoons on the weekend. I love the way her eyes light up when he gets home and how she can barely get her words out fast enough to tell him everything about her day. He actually is a great dad. He will draw with her and read to her, play play dough or dolls. Whatever she wants.
If (of course there is an if as well)
we could just only do weekend mornings and afternoons, only those precious 2-3 hours after he gets home before I can see the effects of the alcohol.
I so often wander about this. I hope more posters will comment on this thread. My AH gets drunk. Every day. Sometimes worse sometimes not so bad. He doesn't get loud or mean or obnoxious. He doesn't throw up or throw stuff or pass out in the bathroom. He just gets drunk. Then he puts on his pjs, brushes his teeth and goes to bed. And apart from the fact that there is no intimacy between the two of us (forget about sex) my worries are so often for my daughter and what goes on in that smart little girl on the days she does get to see him drunk. What am I to do?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
I grew up with an alcoholic father. He was away a lot drinking and gambling. When he was home, he was the center of my world. I adored and admired him.
My mother, on the other hand, was there all the time. She was angry most of the time, or worried, or obsessed over where my father was. She paid little attention to me because her life centered on controlling him. When she did pay attention to me, it mostly felt like she was annoyed or impatient that she had to. The older I got, the angrier she got. My grandmother (her mom) was even angrier. I guess the more years you live with an alcoholic, the angrier you get.
When I noticed I was becoming like my mom, or worse, like my grandmother, I knew I had to change something. I learned from my parents that husbands do whatever they want, and wives get angry about it. Of course, since this was the way marriage was role-modeled to me, this is what I did, too.
I honestly believe that my mother's codependence damaged me infinitely more than my father's alcoholism. Seeing my father drunk once in a while was nothing compared to seeing my mother angry every day.
L
My mother, on the other hand, was there all the time. She was angry most of the time, or worried, or obsessed over where my father was. She paid little attention to me because her life centered on controlling him. When she did pay attention to me, it mostly felt like she was annoyed or impatient that she had to. The older I got, the angrier she got. My grandmother (her mom) was even angrier. I guess the more years you live with an alcoholic, the angrier you get.
When I noticed I was becoming like my mom, or worse, like my grandmother, I knew I had to change something. I learned from my parents that husbands do whatever they want, and wives get angry about it. Of course, since this was the way marriage was role-modeled to me, this is what I did, too.
I honestly believe that my mother's codependence damaged me infinitely more than my father's alcoholism. Seeing my father drunk once in a while was nothing compared to seeing my mother angry every day.
L
Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,334
I adored my alcoholic father but some of my adult,and adolescent problems were because of him.He would get in a rage and beat all of us- not very often but it really scared and enraged me. He would get frustrated over money. My Mom was very code. In the fifties you stayed. I resent her but understand. My Dad drank every day that that I remember. We were allowed eggnog,wine,little drinks as adolescents. I wasan alcoholic early....14yrs maybe.I have just begun to face my code and rage issues in the last few years.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: my own world USA
Posts: 55
i just posted on the Adult Children of Alcoholics thread...My Dad was/is an addict and even though he was not in our home growing up my mothers ACOA charactaristics are so strong from growing up with an alcoholic father, I was very negatively affected. Its only now at 35 that I am realizing how damaged/different I am. I am reading "A Time to Heal" by Timmen Cermak...it does a great job in explaining the effects of children who have an alcoholic/addicted parent. You'd be amazed how many ways it effects the children..
i have not had contact with my mother for almost 2 years now as she is not a emotionally or mentally healthy person. it was not until i had my own child 6 years ago and got educated on ACOA's that I realized that I was doing to him what she had done to me.. I had to cut off all contact as she started hurting him emotionally and mentally, just like she had done to me..
I know its not her fault, but she was made aware of this ACOA thing years ago.. but she has chosen not to do the work to make herself healthy...
I want to stress to every man or woman who has a child with an addict/alcoholic... NO child with a alcoholic/addict parent is NOT affected by it...
i have not had contact with my mother for almost 2 years now as she is not a emotionally or mentally healthy person. it was not until i had my own child 6 years ago and got educated on ACOA's that I realized that I was doing to him what she had done to me.. I had to cut off all contact as she started hurting him emotionally and mentally, just like she had done to me..
I know its not her fault, but she was made aware of this ACOA thing years ago.. but she has chosen not to do the work to make herself healthy...
I want to stress to every man or woman who has a child with an addict/alcoholic... NO child with a alcoholic/addict parent is NOT affected by it...
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 72
LaTeeDa. Thank you for your post. I don't know why but your posts always hit home for me. It's like you are always saying exactly what I need to hear.
Carol Star and soulsurvivor thank you for posting how it feels from the other side.
As a mom and a wife of an alcoholic it is often so overwhelming. Since I started to read books like Codependent No More, hanging around here and going to Al-Anon I know I am doing what I can to keep my sanity and keeping my little girl grounded; learning on just liking life and not worrying so much or obsessing.
Carol Star and soulsurvivor thank you for posting how it feels from the other side.
As a mom and a wife of an alcoholic it is often so overwhelming. Since I started to read books like Codependent No More, hanging around here and going to Al-Anon I know I am doing what I can to keep my sanity and keeping my little girl grounded; learning on just liking life and not worrying so much or obsessing.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
Originally Posted by LaTeeDa 
My mother, on the other hand, was there all the time. She was angry most of the time, or worried, or obsessed over where my father was. She paid little attention to me because her life centered on controlling him. When she did pay attention to me, it mostly felt like she was annoyed or impatient that she had to. The older I got, the angrier she got. My grandmother (her mom) was even angrier. I guess the more years you live with an alcoholic, the angrier you get. ......................
I honestly believe that my mother's codependence damaged me infinitely more than my father's alcoholism. Seeing my father drunk once in a while was nothing compared to seeing my mother angry every day.
L
I honestly believe that my mother's codependence damaged me infinitely more than my father's alcoholism. Seeing my father drunk once in a while was nothing compared to seeing my mother angry every day.
L
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
I agree with LaTeeDa - my mother's codependency was more toxic than my dad's alcoholism.
I don't know real world stats but here's some from my family:
5 kids one alkie father and codie mother.
Everybody was busy, smart, played sports, had friends, and had good education and access to education and work.
All 3 boys became alcoholics.
My sister and I both expanded our well-learned codie-ness in our marriages! She's still married and miserable and depressed and a total control-freak. I explored ways to overcome and change that alkie/codie dynamic I learned as a child - I went to AlAnon, ACOA, and therapy - and I am very very happily divorced and my boys have thrived. Codependent thinking is a bad habit of mind for me and there are slippery slopes all around - but I have traveled such a far distance from that toxic land -- a place I do not wish to re-visit!
When I look back now, more than anything, I wish my mother had just gotten real with us. Called it what it is: alcoholism. Stopped pretending and denying and acknowledged that it was affecting us kids. And offered some goddamn guidance or literature or counseling. I don;t have a very authentic relationship with her to this day...I've forgiven her...but I'll never ever forget what it was like and what she was like all those years....
peace-
b
I don't know real world stats but here's some from my family:
5 kids one alkie father and codie mother.
Everybody was busy, smart, played sports, had friends, and had good education and access to education and work.
All 3 boys became alcoholics.
My sister and I both expanded our well-learned codie-ness in our marriages! She's still married and miserable and depressed and a total control-freak. I explored ways to overcome and change that alkie/codie dynamic I learned as a child - I went to AlAnon, ACOA, and therapy - and I am very very happily divorced and my boys have thrived. Codependent thinking is a bad habit of mind for me and there are slippery slopes all around - but I have traveled such a far distance from that toxic land -- a place I do not wish to re-visit!
When I look back now, more than anything, I wish my mother had just gotten real with us. Called it what it is: alcoholism. Stopped pretending and denying and acknowledged that it was affecting us kids. And offered some goddamn guidance or literature or counseling. I don;t have a very authentic relationship with her to this day...I've forgiven her...but I'll never ever forget what it was like and what she was like all those years....
peace-
b
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 234
I've read there's a strong genetic link father-son, which troubles me since I have a son and my husband is an alcoholic. I worry about the things you mention, but I am most concerned about the fact that I spent the last 3 years consumed by my husband's strange behavior, and not focusing on my son. I think my attention was likely worse since my hubby is a benign alcoholic. But who knows.
I grew up with alcoholic parents and set my expectations too low as an adult. But who knows how I would have turned out if my parents hadn't been alcohol abusers.
I grew up with alcoholic parents and set my expectations too low as an adult. But who knows how I would have turned out if my parents hadn't been alcohol abusers.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NC
Posts: 219
Elsie...I don't know what the stats are, but I wanted to tell you that both of my parents were alcoholics. Out of 5 kids I am the only one that followed in their shoes. None of my siblings have problems with alcohol so maybe that's good news??
AKA 'grewupinabarn'
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 471
Hi Elsie,
I have seen some statistics but can't quote any specifically offhand, but it is clear that children of alcoholics are definitely more likely to have a host of mental health issues, including anxiety, depression, violence, and eating disorders. There is a clear statistical link, maybe a 20% greater chance, of alcoholism for males, less so for females.
From my own experience, some sort of codependent behavior is very likely, such as getting into relationships that mirror the home one was brought up in.
One thing that I have noticed from going to Alanon meetings is that I meet a lot of female ACOAs in alcoholic/addicted relationships.
Where are all the male ACOA's? With few exceptions, including myself, they are in the AA meetings.
So I consider myself lucky to be a rare male alanon attendee. But I and my sister have had a lot of trouble maintaining healthy relationships and consistent jobs. I have 2 brothers. One brother has also had some career difficulties and has done a lot of good hard work on his codie/ACOA habits with an understanding wife to make his marriage last. My other brother went through a period of substance abuse and legal problems before finding a good marriage and career.
I am not sure the best route to minimize the effects. As Bernadette pointed out, the codependent behavior is almost as bad as the drinking itself. You at least have to be 100% VERY honest with the children that there is a problem of alcoholism, not just 'he's sick', and that ONLY the alcoholic can change themselves. Alanon and Alateen meetings may be helpful for you and your kids.
You might take a look at the stickies in the ACOA section and read thought some of the posts. I hope this helps you.
Peace.
I have seen some statistics but can't quote any specifically offhand, but it is clear that children of alcoholics are definitely more likely to have a host of mental health issues, including anxiety, depression, violence, and eating disorders. There is a clear statistical link, maybe a 20% greater chance, of alcoholism for males, less so for females.
From my own experience, some sort of codependent behavior is very likely, such as getting into relationships that mirror the home one was brought up in.
One thing that I have noticed from going to Alanon meetings is that I meet a lot of female ACOAs in alcoholic/addicted relationships.
Where are all the male ACOA's? With few exceptions, including myself, they are in the AA meetings.
So I consider myself lucky to be a rare male alanon attendee. But I and my sister have had a lot of trouble maintaining healthy relationships and consistent jobs. I have 2 brothers. One brother has also had some career difficulties and has done a lot of good hard work on his codie/ACOA habits with an understanding wife to make his marriage last. My other brother went through a period of substance abuse and legal problems before finding a good marriage and career.
I am not sure the best route to minimize the effects. As Bernadette pointed out, the codependent behavior is almost as bad as the drinking itself. You at least have to be 100% VERY honest with the children that there is a problem of alcoholism, not just 'he's sick', and that ONLY the alcoholic can change themselves. Alanon and Alateen meetings may be helpful for you and your kids.
You might take a look at the stickies in the ACOA section and read thought some of the posts. I hope this helps you.
Peace.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 139
Thanks everyone
I wonder (not asking per se, just thinking out loud) what the chances are for children growing up with an alcoholic who are step-children as opposed to biological children. Also, what would my sons chances be, if he was with his father every other weekend only!?
Not that I'm contemplating sticking around...just curious!
Not that I'm contemplating sticking around...just curious!
Recovering Codependant
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Liverpool, Great Britain
Posts: 1,335
My exabf had 2 children to a prior relationship (4 and 7 at the time). They would come and stay with us over the weekend. Here is an example of how that would go...
Kids would show up Sat morning dropped off by their mum. They would be lucky if their dad was awake to great them at the door, mostly it was me. They would inevitably go up stairs and try to wake him - and fail to do so. At dinner time he would wake up, the kids having been in the house for about 4 hours aleady, and stay in bed. He would lay there and refuse to get out of bed. He would require his coffee and his pot. His kids were not allowed to go to see him once he was awake because of the smoke. He would have about 2 smokes before coming out of the room.
Eventually he would come down, already high, and act all excited to see them; an act which completely contradicted the fact that he could neither get organised to get out of bed to great them at the time he knew them to be due, and that his drug came before them in his list of priorities.
The kids would have spent much time already (both before he got up and after) asking if we were going out to the park etc that day. I was suffering effects of prolonged exposure to an abusive alcoholic and new better than take them anywhere without him. By the time their dad got his act together to go anywhere, I would be arranging the evening meal.
Most times, we never went anywhere with them. The kids stayed in all day with me. I would try to make things fun for them, but it was their dad they wanted not me.
During the day and into the night, dad would regularly go upstairs for a 'smoke', which consisted of enjoying a few 'cans' as well. As the day progressed he became more and more intoxicated. His abusiveness would then spill out to all of us.
The kids were yelled at for being to loud, too bouncy, too chatty, for wanting his attention, for not giving him attention and on and on. I was treated like a sub-human, belittled and criticised and verbally abused. Everyone had to act to his every whim, the house revolved around what he wanted or not.
Eventually he would go up for a smoke and drink and not come back. Passed out. I would put the kids to bed. The next day would be much the same; when their mum come to pick them up the following afternoon, he would be freshly risen smiling happy face and the loving dad. The kids would be all hugs and kisses happy that he was being all nice to them. He put out a good show when he needed too.
I always felt incredibly sad for the kids, to see them reaching out for him to be pushed away.
Never forget that alcoholism is progressive. I do not advocate staying with an alcoholic because children are involved, but I understand why a lot of mums do - when with mum, she can attempt to protect the children from dad and the effects of alcoholism as best she is able. Unsupervised visitations mean they are with him, and him alone with no one to look out for them. The odds are they will see all the more.
Before we split their mum stopped the visits, she knew what was happening. After we split I heard he was trying for custody, his wealthy sister paying his way through court. His sister called me and was talking about this very early on in our breakup. I told her that I didn't think the kids should be with their dad right now and told her why. She withdrew her financial support, he moved hundreds of miles away and has not seen nor bothered (that I am aware) to contact the kids again.
Lily xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Kids would show up Sat morning dropped off by their mum. They would be lucky if their dad was awake to great them at the door, mostly it was me. They would inevitably go up stairs and try to wake him - and fail to do so. At dinner time he would wake up, the kids having been in the house for about 4 hours aleady, and stay in bed. He would lay there and refuse to get out of bed. He would require his coffee and his pot. His kids were not allowed to go to see him once he was awake because of the smoke. He would have about 2 smokes before coming out of the room.
Eventually he would come down, already high, and act all excited to see them; an act which completely contradicted the fact that he could neither get organised to get out of bed to great them at the time he knew them to be due, and that his drug came before them in his list of priorities.
The kids would have spent much time already (both before he got up and after) asking if we were going out to the park etc that day. I was suffering effects of prolonged exposure to an abusive alcoholic and new better than take them anywhere without him. By the time their dad got his act together to go anywhere, I would be arranging the evening meal.
Most times, we never went anywhere with them. The kids stayed in all day with me. I would try to make things fun for them, but it was their dad they wanted not me.
During the day and into the night, dad would regularly go upstairs for a 'smoke', which consisted of enjoying a few 'cans' as well. As the day progressed he became more and more intoxicated. His abusiveness would then spill out to all of us.
The kids were yelled at for being to loud, too bouncy, too chatty, for wanting his attention, for not giving him attention and on and on. I was treated like a sub-human, belittled and criticised and verbally abused. Everyone had to act to his every whim, the house revolved around what he wanted or not.
Eventually he would go up for a smoke and drink and not come back. Passed out. I would put the kids to bed. The next day would be much the same; when their mum come to pick them up the following afternoon, he would be freshly risen smiling happy face and the loving dad. The kids would be all hugs and kisses happy that he was being all nice to them. He put out a good show when he needed too.
I always felt incredibly sad for the kids, to see them reaching out for him to be pushed away.
Never forget that alcoholism is progressive. I do not advocate staying with an alcoholic because children are involved, but I understand why a lot of mums do - when with mum, she can attempt to protect the children from dad and the effects of alcoholism as best she is able. Unsupervised visitations mean they are with him, and him alone with no one to look out for them. The odds are they will see all the more.
Before we split their mum stopped the visits, she knew what was happening. After we split I heard he was trying for custody, his wealthy sister paying his way through court. His sister called me and was talking about this very early on in our breakup. I told her that I didn't think the kids should be with their dad right now and told her why. She withdrew her financial support, he moved hundreds of miles away and has not seen nor bothered (that I am aware) to contact the kids again.
Lily xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Southwest
Posts: 1,207
Originally Posted by Elsie
I wonder (not asking per se, just thinking out loud) what the chances are for children growing up with an alcoholic who are step-children as opposed to biological children. Also, what would my sons chances be, if he was with his father every other weekend only!?
Not that I'm contemplating sticking around...just curious!
Not that I'm contemplating sticking around...just curious!
So I have about 3-4 months under my belt by now, and my children are seeing their dad twice a week from 5 p.m. to 8 p.m. and every other weekend. Here are my observations:
1. They aren't sleeping well. Every night at least one of the three winds up in my bed.
2. They are sad about Daddy not living with us and they miss him when he's not around.
HOWEVER!!! Our house is calm; it is pleasant; my 7 yr old daughter's temper tantrums have decreased by 75%; our days are predictable - we know our routine: get up, get dressed, school, activities, supper, baths, bed.
I am 1000x calmer because I am not avoiding; engaging; negotiating with; begging; haranguing; apologizing; explaining; advising; pleading; crying every. single. day.
My refrigerator is full of milk, juice and water - not beer and pizza. Sloppy AH's clothes aren't scattered all over the house wherever he decided to leave them for me to pick up.
I can be a fun mom sometimes now because I am not constantly on edge wondering how to pay the bills he is running up and the thousand different things that living with an active (and in my case, hostile) A does to the family.
So in our case, I have to say that the effect and impact on the children has been positive. Long-term, I hope that we continue in this direction, but now that our house is a "clean" house (substance-wise), it is so obvious how sick we all were before.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 100
This is a family disease. It runs from generation to generation. You can break the cycle.
I am living proof that if one person in the family gets help, it helps everyone. Some of my children (one in particular) are a little crazy; however, all are better as a result of my alanon program. My wife is better as a result of my program. However, AND THIS IS REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT, my program is for me and not for them. Their being better is an extra benefit. If I make their recovery the reason for my program, it won't work for any of us.
I am living proof that if one person in the family gets help, it helps everyone. Some of my children (one in particular) are a little crazy; however, all are better as a result of my alanon program. My wife is better as a result of my program. However, AND THIS IS REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT, my program is for me and not for them. Their being better is an extra benefit. If I make their recovery the reason for my program, it won't work for any of us.
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