grrl77

Tell me if I'm being a nutbag here, okay?

So I'm reading this site, and the more I read here on SR, and my book Codependent No More, I'm excited! I mean, it's like this realization that you're not totally batsh*t crazy, you know? You start to see things - patterns in yourself, ways in which you could improve, ways in which your behavior might have perpetuated the problem with your AH, all these things start coming to light, and it's fantastic! You start to feel some peace. So then my next thought is:

"I wanna show my ex bf-ah all these things I've learned. I could be not as argumentative. I could use these tactics, and maybe, by my non-aggressive "letting go" stance of his issue, it'll make him view our relationship in a different light. Maybe that "We never talk because we always fight" thing he says will not be so much the case."

Let me clarify. I'm in no way saying, ooo, I've changed, ex-ahbf! Check me out! Let's be BFF! I will show you my new tactics and you will learn to appreciate me and suddenly be completely enamoured by my new-found awesome calm that is now me!

But can't one want that? :/ I mean. We used to actually have fun when we talked, even just in regular convo. We used to sit up and chat on the phone for hours. Then his problem became really prevalent, I started questioning, I was thrown into a situation in which I didn't know how to handle - I'd never dealt with an alcoholic before. I did the best that I could, and man, did I worry, did I fret, did I freak out. I was a total martyr. Sure, his actions tore us apart, but I don't think mine helped, either. But I guess I still wanna... be around, in the way that the Letting Go poem in the sticky suggests. Does that make sense? I can't tell if I'm being codie or simply just wanting him to know I'm around, even if it is distant/me working on myself. I'm just not one to bail on someone, or tell them to go eff themselves. What I've learned, though, is that it certainly doesn't mean I have to be walked all over, either.

MissFixit

Hi,

I get where you are coming from. I think you are using magical thinking. Here is a scenario:

Okay. What if you use you new found techniques when he is drinking. He continues to drink, lie, etc. HIS behavior increases and progresses because HE is an active A. You use your detachment skills and step away from the negatives you don't like. Next he drinks more and gets arrested or cheats as HIS sickness is growing.

HIS behavior worsens with or without you as long as he doesn't seek recovery.

grrl77

Yeah.

I just had a sad thought: I worry about him dying a lot. He's struggled with depression in the past, and I remember something he said once, when we first got together. I'd asked him if he'd ever considered quitting. He told me, "I never had a reason to."

The truth is, he's got lots of reasons to. Many people care about him. I care about him, and love him. His family loves him, and cares for him. HE should care for him.

I realize this comment isn't about my post. But maybe that's why I obsess so much. I try to leave it up to God, you know? I pray for him daily. But if a guy already thinks he has no reason to quit, what's going to suddenly make him stop? He used to tell me he'd be okay with just never waking up one day.

Bleh.

MissFixit

I am writing this for you, so I hope you don't take offense. If he is an ex, then work towards leaving him in the past. He is sick and is an ex now. For your own sanity, please focus on you.

I have struggled with this concept. Mine moved on with another woman and it gets to me from time to time. BUT, they are no longer part of our lives. For one reason or another, the relationships are over adn we must forge ahead without them. The more distance you get from contatc with him, the easier this will become.

wanting

It seems like your higher power has pretty much made things happen for you. Your XABF broke things off with you, which is pretty much a gift from above. The same thing happened to me, and I know in my heart that it was because I would have stayed forever, enduring the same crap day after day for the rest of my life. It still hurts like hell, and I often have the same kinds of magical thinking that I see you having here. I am just a magical kind of person. But one thing I have done that is sort of in line with my magicalness, is to put XH in my higher power's hands. If we are meant to be together, then there is nothing that will keep us apart. No contact will only help us both to grow independently of one another. And I have to be willing to live by my standards and my truth, and right now (and possibly forever), that means not being in contact with him.

But trying to force your way back into his life by lowering your standards and taking on all the responsibility for the relationship is really not a good idea. I can't remember, are you seeing a counselor?

Buffalo66

I understand your thinking, here.

I get really excited when I feel healthy. I want to show it to him. I want to share it with him. I want him to "catch it" like a contagious disease.

I think in a really healthy relationship that could be possible. I know that over the years with my A when I have shared with him, and given him my inner life, he has spat all over it. He becomes threatened by it, and many times I would retreat from the positive work that I was doing or getting excited about.

I know how you feel, though...Even after years of lies, betrayals, neglects...lies (oh, did I already say that? sigh...) I still have this desire to share my budding health with him.

I always feel like I have been afflicted with the need to give away my inner power by sharing it. It is almost a validation thing. I need to re learn how to own it. Let it be mine. MINE.

It is strange, and the times in my life when I just owned it and let it grow, I have had the real happiness of my life.

bookwyrm

First time I read Co Dependant No More I was soo excited and thought that STBXAH would really get a lot out of reading it too!! I could see him in almost every page - this would really help him. Oh, and it would help my mum too - I even bought her a copy.

I suggested to STBXAH he read the book. So yeah, that idea went down like a lead balloon. Classic codie behaviour. :codiepolice

Now, I know better. I try to keep to my own side of the street. If they want my advice, they can ask. I find it funny now just how codie my knee jerk reaction to reading Co Dependant No More was when I was sure I wasn't a codie at all!

polkadot

I was married 18 years to an alcoholic. Its a hard life. I left when the kids were raised. He died few months later. The sad part is this: he quit drinking for about a year. and was a horses ass. he was what they call a dry drunk. I only knew how to handle him drunk. i wanted us to start over.. i feel guilty and thus comes my issues...guilt is a bad feeling. my advice to you is this...live your life what is best for you!!! i would do the same all over again but would have left sooner but the kids were his and I couldnt or wouldnt leave them. I was so much younger than him. sorry about rambling here but it brought up some of my "what can i do to fix it issues" answer is NOTHING. sad but true.

transformyself

I worked on and changed myself for years in the hopes that it would make my husband love me enough to be faithful, stop drinking and finally we could be happy.

One person can't do all the changing and work.

TakingCharge999

grrl, I get you 100% and I felt and still feel the same way sometimes.

Before meeting an alcoholic I saw my movie like an actress being directed by: parents, boyfriend, friends, destiny, "what I was supposed to be doing"

While having an alcoholic as a partner, breakup and all the mourning afterwards... it was as if I disappeared from the scene... a secondary actor took over the whole play, no directors or others, just himself, his needs, his problems, his drinking and of course his denial. His madness... no sense of direction... just instant gratification...and "fun" (for him at least). All about.. HIM.

After some time and SR, therapy... in my best moments... I feel like the "MADNESS SCENE FROM HELL" is over... the main actress is back... AND she is also the DIRECTOR of the play! AND the guionist...

Its been a year and I still want to "show him", that he was the one who hurt me, that he lost something great, what a cool girl I am, how pretty I look now... well... he does not seem to notice/care AT ALL.

I just lose energy trying to control how someone else sees me and life...

Power is not having to play.
Power is not picking other people's trash.
Power is knowing you do not need to convince or show anything to anyone.


Accepting someone is out of your life for good (or at least: just for today) is very hard... but it gets easier when you SEE HIM FOR WHO HE IS....the good...the bad..... and realize the bad is unacceptable. and NO AMOUNT OF "GOOD" compensates the bad...

The feelings you have are natural, further ahead all these ideas will sink in... keep moving forward... the audience is waiting for the main starlet to get under the limelight again!!

Maybe its a sucky analogy but yesterday I was planning something and felt great about being the architect of my destiny

If a woman remembers the nature of her soul and what she represents... life, nurturing, compassion, love... and she provides that to herself... there is no stopping her.

A man that does not respect a woman is no one you need around, period.

It is painful but the pain is worth the lessons, gifts and great people found further down the road

Carol Star

Thanks everyone for all your posts. They are really close to my story. My XAH gets real emotionally messed up over the holidays. He calls and makes no sense. He has lost everything and everyone. I have finally accepted he may die. I love the guy that he could be. It just ain't happening as far as recovery is concerned. There is a poem I read "I rock you close as your memory grows old. I rock you close as your memory grows cold." I have prayed that HP helps me let go. It is fading. Not gone.....fading......like looking at old pictures. Thanks everyone. It is comforting to know I am not alone in these feelings.

grrl77

I just wanted to say thanks for your posts in regards to my delimma. *hugs* It makes a lot of sense to me, and kind of just really hit home. You guys seem to know what it's like.

A few days ago, I was in a bookstore and ran across this jazz book I knew he'd like. I called, no answer. I texted no answer. This is no surprise; he avoids me, it seems like. I just wanted to find out who his favourite jazz artist was, to see if he was in this book. (mistake #1.) Of course, I found myself annoyed because I actually thought he *might* answer, but alas, no go. Whatever, I let it go. Fast forward to last night. I get an instant message from him. "My favourite jazz artist is Chick Corea." I said, "Well you should have told me that two days ago when I was in a bookstore and had what I was looking for right in front of me. :P " He's all, "Haha, you know how I am. " I said, "Try answering the phone sometimes, when I call. :P " He said something about there being a small window of opportunity of when he could actually talk, whatever that means, heh. All he's doing is playing a video game and drinking. Anyway. I said, "Ah, I just figured it's because you didn't want to talk to me. " He said, "well that's true too - i'm much more comfortable talking to you here." (meaning online.) I said, "Why, because we fight all the time?" He said, "There's that, yeah. We always end up having phone sex or fighting, in that order." (sorry for the TMI, but a girl's gotta do what she's gotta do sometimes. That's since stopped.) I said, "Well, that won't be happening anymore." He's like, "You think it's just you?" I said, "Well... last i checked, if your partner doesnt want to get off with you, you're kind of screwed." :P He laughed and said well that's true, but he's referring mainly to the fighting. Then he said how different we were, naivity-wise. I think he was saying I'm pretty naive. And said how I'm very "non-judgemental." I cut the convo short and told him I had to go. I wasn't going to listen to him pick me apart on why we're so different.

The truth is, girl.. I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't, and it frustrates the ever-living eff out of me. If I don't say anything to defend myself, I have no opinion. I'm "non-judgemental." I take no hard line against anything. If I have an opinion on something, then "all we do is fight," because he'll argue his nonsensical point to the death. For example, when I was there in July I wore a gorgeous dress to this event we were going to. He told me I looked gorgeous. Four months later, one drunken night, he proceeded to tell me how I was "wildly overdressed," and "embarassed him." I just let him carry on, rather than saying what i wanted to say, which was wow, dude, you embarass YOURSELF. I don't have to do any of that for you, you drunken arse.

Anyway.

It's just this alternate reality he lives in, as an active alcoholic. Sometimes I find myself wanting answers. The convo last night wasn't bad, he wasn't really being jerky, he just feels we're so different, but his reasonings make no sense. I'm non-judgemental? Isn't that a good thing? You know, I remember we used to have long convos about everything. Even debates. We'd not always agree, but he never thought badly of me, he never sat here and said, "Well I just can't talk to you because we're too different, so I distance myself."

I don't know what's happened.

I know it shouldn't matter, okay. Like the realistic make sense part of me knows he's an active alcoholic, trying to make sense of his reasons is pointless. But he seems to genuinely feel this way, and there's that part of me that gets pissed off by that, that wants to write him an e-mail at his work and just lay it all out. You know? Ask him, what happened to us? We used to be able to talk, can't you remember that? You yourself said that when you drink, you become a monster. So what, you're going to just keep being that monster? You know? Try to get him to understand. I've never done that before, and he'd be sober when he'd read it. But then I read your post, and it's like.. focus on me, focus on me, and I know that's what I need to do. It's just so frustrating, it makes me sad, and angry.

I hate feeling this way. I know i probably drive my friends nuts, repeating the same story, expecting a change. It's maddening trying to make sense of someone that says things that don't make sense, especially when we've had clear as a bell convos about all of this. I remember the first time we'd had a drunken convo and he was a jerk, he felt terrible about it the next day - to the point he sought assistance through work, to get some help. Said he "hated the monster he became" when he drank. It's beyond that now. He doesn't apologize. He just is that monster.

TakingCharge999

Hi again grrrl... when I told this to my therapist she said I did not miss this person as a boyfriend but as a friend and that was a huge relief. It was true, I missed the conversations, the company, the friendship we used to have. As if your best friend died, of course you would miss him or her.

And the same happened to me, supernice, the one day BAM, then the next day tears all day saying he was sorry and to promise him I was going to be happy without him... that I did not deserve that treatment... then a few days later BAM exactly the same thing.... and the same tears... his and mine. The same promises...

That is the cycle of abuse.

Talking to him only confuses you more. Its like a madman.... you don't try to figure one out... you just get as far away as possible and stay out of the way.........

I hope you can go No Contact soon....... we all realize it in our own time... we cannot "win".... no one can "win". The only way to win is not to play, another famous phrase... not playing. Not talking to him. Talking to sane, healthier people. Getting back to you and what YOU WANT, what YOU NEED. To sanity and joy.

If he saw how bad you felt with his comments and acts... and he is doing nothing about it... there are no magic words to say for him to realize this... he prefers the drink... you can do nothing about it, grrl... NOTHING... you can just take care of yourself.

grrl77

Thanks, lady. *hugs* I'm tryin my best over here. I just keep coming back to this site, and it helps me a lot. I have good days and bad days.

Lilyflower

Its that feeling that this will get him to see the light/truth/way out/how loving I am etc etc.

In the end though it all comes down to trying to get someone to change rather than letting them get there on their own. Really hard to do, but none the less, essential. This is where the 'Keep to your own side of the street' comes from.

Don't fret about getting him to wake up and smell the coffee, be glad you have and enjoy your life all the more for it. If he finds recovery he will realise how much he did and what he put everyone through anyway

Lily xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

TakingCharge999

And if he does not find recovery, there is just more pain for YOU, having a front row seat to the decadence and progression of alcoholism....

I agree with Lilly, YOU can smell the coffee... YOU are free from addiction... YOU got the gift of humility and introspection.... YOU are protected by a higher entity that is taking you away from much more hurt.

If you think this is painful.... nope, this is nothing compared to the hurt and pain waiting for anyone next to an addict.

A recovered alcoholic from AA told me that phrase above.

Perhaps going to Al anon/AA helps you see, how powerful alcoholism is... and how true change, true regret and recovery look like?

As it is I also got another bf and I value him much more... not perfect but after an alcoholic, the rest of my ex's and this "new" guy look like angels... somehow forgiveness of lesser evils is much easier...


Be gentle with yourself
Grab your favorite teddy bear
Read Melody beattie
Read comic books
Watch comedies and cartoons
Treat yourself to a spa or manicure or a walk on the park

You are still here and if you are mourning it means your mind considers this pain manageable. Otherwise you would be in shock and unable to function. But no, you are around doing stuff, so you can do it.

Hope you feel better soon !!!