Continuing the subject of ANGERRRRRR
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Continuing the subject of ANGERRRRRR
Today, I was cleaning my house and the melodrama was going full-bore in my head about why he left me. I have been developing screenplay in my mind in an attempt to figure out what led up to his abrupt, totally-out-of-character-no-matter-how-drunk-he-was behavior. And because I am deparately trying to maintain no contact, I cannot (and know I shouldn’t but want to) call him and ask him to talk to me about this.
At one point, I said to myself, “Don’t do this to yourself!” You are the only one making yourself crazy right now!!” So I ran downstairs to the basement and started to cry.
When I got my composure back, I went back upstairs and proceeded to move the couch to clean under it. When I did, an empty beer can appeared.
That’s when I really got angry.
Just a brief aside: Whenever he came to my house, he knew he had to be sober. If he wasn’t he got turned away. Period. My house is a “dry” house. Another period. He never brought alcohol into my house and understood that that was the condition he had to abide by if he wanted to see me. For 4 years, he respected my boundary. When he drank, he drank at his home, alone.
So now, after he came to my house back in October (without my knowledge or permission) to get his stuff out, it seems that he left me some “messages” around the house – empty beer cans. It was like he took my boundary and told me to shove it up my you-know-what.
So my questions are these, because I am having a hard time trying to understand what happens to the anger we feel when we detach:
If successful in detaching, does their behavior just not make us angry anymore? Or,
Are we brushing the anger under the rug only to have it re-surface later in another form or towards someone else?
How do we keep the latter from happening and not kid ourselves that we have sucessfully detached?
What happens that turns us from being angry to just not caring anymore? And how long does it take?
Why is it not a good thing for us to be angry with them because of how they treated us?
Why do we not have the right to be angry?
I’m having a very difficult time trying to understand this.
At one point, I said to myself, “Don’t do this to yourself!” You are the only one making yourself crazy right now!!” So I ran downstairs to the basement and started to cry.
When I got my composure back, I went back upstairs and proceeded to move the couch to clean under it. When I did, an empty beer can appeared.
That’s when I really got angry.
Just a brief aside: Whenever he came to my house, he knew he had to be sober. If he wasn’t he got turned away. Period. My house is a “dry” house. Another period. He never brought alcohol into my house and understood that that was the condition he had to abide by if he wanted to see me. For 4 years, he respected my boundary. When he drank, he drank at his home, alone.
So now, after he came to my house back in October (without my knowledge or permission) to get his stuff out, it seems that he left me some “messages” around the house – empty beer cans. It was like he took my boundary and told me to shove it up my you-know-what.
So my questions are these, because I am having a hard time trying to understand what happens to the anger we feel when we detach:
If successful in detaching, does their behavior just not make us angry anymore? Or,
Are we brushing the anger under the rug only to have it re-surface later in another form or towards someone else?
How do we keep the latter from happening and not kid ourselves that we have sucessfully detached?
What happens that turns us from being angry to just not caring anymore? And how long does it take?
Why is it not a good thing for us to be angry with them because of how they treated us?
Why do we not have the right to be angry?
I’m having a very difficult time trying to understand this.
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 864
First everything will be on your time frame, all that you learn, all the stages you go through, try not to over complicate it to much.
You have every right to be angry and can stay that way as long as you like, but I can’t say that is the most healthiest way to live…
Not so easy is it?
The anger, well you will have to process what it means to you. In reading your post finding beer cans around with someone in active addiction around makes all the sense in the world to me. Remember he is actively using, keep it simple….
I do wonder how much of our anger is we just want them to be how we want them to be…and we refuse to accept that this is who they are now…
Detaching, is more than just the act of, it is the start of a process toward shifting the focus back to us and our behavior, if we were all that ok while they were so very obvious out of their minds…it is just the beginning there is so much more that comes after that…
You have to get to letting go of what isn‘t yours, then acceptance, and patience with you and those around, faith will jump in somewhere, in yourself that you will be ok no matter what he does or doesn’t do and then peace comes and it is really nice…
Be good to you.
You have every right to be angry and can stay that way as long as you like, but I can’t say that is the most healthiest way to live…
Not so easy is it?
The anger, well you will have to process what it means to you. In reading your post finding beer cans around with someone in active addiction around makes all the sense in the world to me. Remember he is actively using, keep it simple….
I do wonder how much of our anger is we just want them to be how we want them to be…and we refuse to accept that this is who they are now…
Detaching, is more than just the act of, it is the start of a process toward shifting the focus back to us and our behavior, if we were all that ok while they were so very obvious out of their minds…it is just the beginning there is so much more that comes after that…
You have to get to letting go of what isn‘t yours, then acceptance, and patience with you and those around, faith will jump in somewhere, in yourself that you will be ok no matter what he does or doesn’t do and then peace comes and it is really nice…
Be good to you.
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,149
My understanding of detachment is that if it is perfect then someone else's life, actions, deeds, words, lack of actions etc would not affect my mood or feelings or actions at all, either for good or bad.
Which is quite a tall order, and buddhist monks practice this their whole life, in a monastary, up a mountain, in order to try and perfect this. In the ordinary everyday world, I try not to aim so much for perfection.
BTW, I am told being over-attached; enmeshed in another isn't wrong, it's just unhelpful to my state of mind, so if I slip, it doesn't matter, I pick myself up, dust myself off and get on with life.
Detachment isn't about hiding or burying your feelings.
The tools I have been taught to help be start along the path are (as pelican says) the awareness, acceptance, action course. You are aware: fab, there may be many things you have to accept about yourself: your interactions with others, your past, your expectations, your beliefs, your behaviour etc in order to acheive perfect detachment in all situations.
I am feeling alot less angry than I was, and the steps that have helped me are:
ACKNOWLEDGING my feelings: I AM angry: and that is just fine. Feelings are just that, feelings, they do not define us, they are not good or bad or right or wrong, they are all human traits that are very useful. I have slowly been doing bits of work on what is positive about anger (I will move to other feelings soon), why we might need to feel it etc.
Seperating my actions from my feelings. When I got here me feeling angry and me acting angry were exactly the same thing. when I was angry I WAS anger. I had only 2 mechanisms for dealing with anger, chuck it out at the universe (instantly) or turn it in on myself and let it fester and damage me. I found it impossible to understand when people talked about not reacting to others with anger, I thought they were telling me not to feel anger. So I stuffed the anger more, felt more awful about myself for being such a terrible person to still be feeling anger: None of that helped a bit LOL!
It took me a long time to even eek out a millisecond between feeling anger and exploding with it, but I managed to make that longer, enough times now that very often I am able to name my feelings (I am angry) and sometimes even examine the reason (I am angry that H told the children he would ring and hasn't) and my beliefs/expectations that may have added to that (I have lulled myself into beleiving that he will put his children before alcohol because he has kept his word for a week). I then have to accept that these feelings aren't silly, neither are my beliefs or expectations, they just are helpful, or not.
Therapy, Mindfulness (a technique my therapist taught me), AL-anon I found lovely for the acceptance and love, but because you can't discuss during the meetings and I was too socially anxious to get a sponsor, I came out with some very skewed ideas about what I was "supposed" to be doing. SO I would suggest grabbing a sponsor if you can. Plenty of sleep, eating well when I can, taking times to laugh with friends and reconnect with my principles and things I hold dear, all of this has helped me.
I still feel angry, and that anger is fair enough, I explode less with it now, I still would like to have more patience, specifically with both myself and my children, so that the angry feeling come less often and I would still like to get better at dealing with anger when I feel it,
progress not perfection!
Which is quite a tall order, and buddhist monks practice this their whole life, in a monastary, up a mountain, in order to try and perfect this. In the ordinary everyday world, I try not to aim so much for perfection.
BTW, I am told being over-attached; enmeshed in another isn't wrong, it's just unhelpful to my state of mind, so if I slip, it doesn't matter, I pick myself up, dust myself off and get on with life.
Detachment isn't about hiding or burying your feelings.
The tools I have been taught to help be start along the path are (as pelican says) the awareness, acceptance, action course. You are aware: fab, there may be many things you have to accept about yourself: your interactions with others, your past, your expectations, your beliefs, your behaviour etc in order to acheive perfect detachment in all situations.
I am feeling alot less angry than I was, and the steps that have helped me are:
ACKNOWLEDGING my feelings: I AM angry: and that is just fine. Feelings are just that, feelings, they do not define us, they are not good or bad or right or wrong, they are all human traits that are very useful. I have slowly been doing bits of work on what is positive about anger (I will move to other feelings soon), why we might need to feel it etc.
Seperating my actions from my feelings. When I got here me feeling angry and me acting angry were exactly the same thing. when I was angry I WAS anger. I had only 2 mechanisms for dealing with anger, chuck it out at the universe (instantly) or turn it in on myself and let it fester and damage me. I found it impossible to understand when people talked about not reacting to others with anger, I thought they were telling me not to feel anger. So I stuffed the anger more, felt more awful about myself for being such a terrible person to still be feeling anger: None of that helped a bit LOL!
It took me a long time to even eek out a millisecond between feeling anger and exploding with it, but I managed to make that longer, enough times now that very often I am able to name my feelings (I am angry) and sometimes even examine the reason (I am angry that H told the children he would ring and hasn't) and my beliefs/expectations that may have added to that (I have lulled myself into beleiving that he will put his children before alcohol because he has kept his word for a week). I then have to accept that these feelings aren't silly, neither are my beliefs or expectations, they just are helpful, or not.
Therapy, Mindfulness (a technique my therapist taught me), AL-anon I found lovely for the acceptance and love, but because you can't discuss during the meetings and I was too socially anxious to get a sponsor, I came out with some very skewed ideas about what I was "supposed" to be doing. SO I would suggest grabbing a sponsor if you can. Plenty of sleep, eating well when I can, taking times to laugh with friends and reconnect with my principles and things I hold dear, all of this has helped me.
I still feel angry, and that anger is fair enough, I explode less with it now, I still would like to have more patience, specifically with both myself and my children, so that the angry feeling come less often and I would still like to get better at dealing with anger when I feel it,
progress not perfection!
I Love Who I Am
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,210
It's early for me and I'm sitting down with coffee so I hope this doesn't come across as rude, I don't want it to be, I want to help. So here goes.
Dude. Let go. Turn off your brain. Stop over analyzing why we over analyze.
This will take work, but to me it's the whole concept of detachment. I have to first decide that I don't want to feel this way anymore. Then comes the realization that I'm obsessing and that is what is hurting me. Not AH, not the drinking, not the affairs, but my obsessing, because those things are in the past and I am keeping them alive in the moment.
So, I have to turn my attention to something else, something positive and healthy. Every time it comes back, each time it returns, I work to replace it with something else.
The best I've ever felt is when I replace these thoughts with a plan to make my life better. You're already waaaay ahead of me because you're moving the freaking couch to clean under it (The couch moves?) but if you take a fraction of the energy you're pouring into obsessing about your A and put it into something else, you can do great things.
But you gotta want it. More than you want to stay in your head trying to figure this stuff out.
Sometimes for me I'm just being lazy when I obsess. It's what I do, and well. But because I"ve also had giant chunks of my life that are detached from him and I"m happier than ever before, I have that reference and it's alluring. It's wonderful actually.
I also at times need anti-anxiety meds to stop the repetative thoughts, but that's because I had an anxiety disorder. And I"m a freak.
Dude. Let go. Turn off your brain. Stop over analyzing why we over analyze.
This will take work, but to me it's the whole concept of detachment. I have to first decide that I don't want to feel this way anymore. Then comes the realization that I'm obsessing and that is what is hurting me. Not AH, not the drinking, not the affairs, but my obsessing, because those things are in the past and I am keeping them alive in the moment.
So, I have to turn my attention to something else, something positive and healthy. Every time it comes back, each time it returns, I work to replace it with something else.
The best I've ever felt is when I replace these thoughts with a plan to make my life better. You're already waaaay ahead of me because you're moving the freaking couch to clean under it (The couch moves?) but if you take a fraction of the energy you're pouring into obsessing about your A and put it into something else, you can do great things.
But you gotta want it. More than you want to stay in your head trying to figure this stuff out.
Sometimes for me I'm just being lazy when I obsess. It's what I do, and well. But because I"ve also had giant chunks of my life that are detached from him and I"m happier than ever before, I have that reference and it's alluring. It's wonderful actually.
I also at times need anti-anxiety meds to stop the repetative thoughts, but that's because I had an anxiety disorder. And I"m a freak.
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Join Date: Oct 2009
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Posts: 75
Originally Posted by transformyself 
Let go. Turn off your brain. Stop over analyzing why we over analyze.
Originally Posted by transformyself
And I"m a freak.
Thanks so much for your comments.
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Originally Posted by JenT1968
I found it impossible to understand when people talked about not reacting to others with anger, I thought they were telling me not to feel anger. So I stuffed the anger more, felt more awful about myself for being such a terrible person to still be feeling anger.
Thank you for your very insightful comments!
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
For me, early in my recovery from alcoholism I had a very rude awakening about anger and resentments. It was simply this ................................. when I get angry I have a resentment. My resentments arise from:
"What is he/she/it/they NOT DOING, that I want he/she/it/they TO DO, when I WANT he/she/it/they TO DO IT, TO MAKE ME MORE COMFORTABLE?"
Let me tell you, the first time my sponsor's hubby asked me that one I felt like I had been hit in the gut. Then it boiled down to MY EXPECTATIONS of others. I 'expected' them to keep my boundaries. Well, guess what, many haven't over the years.
Then it becomes my CHOICE to waste energy on anger and resentment or get the H away from the toxic person. Yes, I had to accept that I sometimes made 'bad choices' in people, and I learned more each time. I also came to understand that I didn't need to destroy myself with anger and/or resentment over my bad choice.
I stopped trying to figure out others years ago, to me that too is just wasted energy spinning my wheels and have learned how to focus on me and how not to make the same mistakes again.
No, it didn't happen overnight. Yes it has taken a lot of work to change my attitudes and how I act and react today, both work in counseling and Al-Anon and just continuing to live life.
Once I came to understand I could be angry whenever I wanted, but ..................... why would I want to when the only one it hurt was me, was when my attitudes started to change.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
"What is he/she/it/they NOT DOING, that I want he/she/it/they TO DO, when I WANT he/she/it/they TO DO IT, TO MAKE ME MORE COMFORTABLE?"
Let me tell you, the first time my sponsor's hubby asked me that one I felt like I had been hit in the gut. Then it boiled down to MY EXPECTATIONS of others. I 'expected' them to keep my boundaries. Well, guess what, many haven't over the years.
Then it becomes my CHOICE to waste energy on anger and resentment or get the H away from the toxic person. Yes, I had to accept that I sometimes made 'bad choices' in people, and I learned more each time. I also came to understand that I didn't need to destroy myself with anger and/or resentment over my bad choice.
I stopped trying to figure out others years ago, to me that too is just wasted energy spinning my wheels and have learned how to focus on me and how not to make the same mistakes again.
No, it didn't happen overnight. Yes it has taken a lot of work to change my attitudes and how I act and react today, both work in counseling and Al-Anon and just continuing to live life.
Once I came to understand I could be angry whenever I wanted, but ..................... why would I want to when the only one it hurt was me, was when my attitudes started to change.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
I Love Who I Am
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,210
I think I'm getting what laurie is saying (great picture by the way, that guy looks like a trouble maker), but I think I simplifiy the process when I realize that all of my anger is fear based. Cheating husband makes me angry. I'm afraid. Afraid to lose him, afraid he'll love someone more than he loves me, afraid she's better, bla bla bla. That becomes anger.
Oh and Dreamer-you're talking to someone with anger issues. Lots of them. I'm not proud either, its' something I"ve had to work long and hard to overcome. Release.
Yes, it's a habit, but for me I believe its' more a way of life. An illness even. The only thing that calms the madness for me is if I consistently go to yoga, or in case of an emergency, take anti anxiety meds. Once the anger is under control I can do the behavior modification stuff. But not while. I just need to stay away from sharp objects till it's subsided.
Also, anger is a powerful thing. I've learned how to replace the anger with other ways that give me power, which is why the Bikram works so well. I've never ever felt calm and strong simulatiously, but this form of yoga gives me that. When I go regularly, I'm iron clad.
I know it's not for everyone, but I bet there is a form of exercise out there that allows you to:meditate, overcome fear, acknowledge how beautiufl and strong you are and gives you back serenity. Or in my case, teaches it to me for the first time ever.
If you take this seriously, really want to release your anger, you'll do it. You just need to keep at it!
Oh and Dreamer-you're talking to someone with anger issues. Lots of them. I'm not proud either, its' something I"ve had to work long and hard to overcome. Release.
Yes, it's a habit, but for me I believe its' more a way of life. An illness even. The only thing that calms the madness for me is if I consistently go to yoga, or in case of an emergency, take anti anxiety meds. Once the anger is under control I can do the behavior modification stuff. But not while. I just need to stay away from sharp objects till it's subsided.
Also, anger is a powerful thing. I've learned how to replace the anger with other ways that give me power, which is why the Bikram works so well. I've never ever felt calm and strong simulatiously, but this form of yoga gives me that. When I go regularly, I'm iron clad.
I know it's not for everyone, but I bet there is a form of exercise out there that allows you to:meditate, overcome fear, acknowledge how beautiufl and strong you are and gives you back serenity. Or in my case, teaches it to me for the first time ever.
If you take this seriously, really want to release your anger, you'll do it. You just need to keep at it!
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when I get angry I have a resentment. My resentments arise from:"What is he/she/it/they NOT DOING, that I want he/she/it/they TO DO, when I WANT he/she/it/they TO DO IT, TO MAKE ME MORE COMFORTABLE?"
I get angry and sad about child abuse, war, poverty, etc. I don't rage about them, I don't feel rage, but I am moved to act by my anger, (in whatever small way). I don't expect there not to be wars, and I'm not personally affected by them, (and I know these are extreme emotive examples).
Anger = not having my expectations met suggests surprise?
other times its not what I "expect" but what I "want", they seem different to me.
I want my child to put his shoes on, its the 4th time I've asked and we're now late, I'm angry that he hasn't put his shoes on yet. I don't expect him to put his shoes on, I know pretty well that he won't, but I'm not going to do it for the rest of his life, so I want him to start to do it.
and fair enough, feeling angry doesn't move the situation on any, I'm not saying its useful in this instance.
I am interested in exploring this, as you seem such a serene happy individual.
I suspect I am reading too much into this but when you say the stuff about anger all being as a result of my expectations, I get the feeling that you are therefore saying to try not to have expectations. Or are you just saying that getting angry over your expectations is a waste of energy? I can understand the latter. Do you think all anger is a waste of energy?
(I'm not very good with anger, sorry to hijack the thread)
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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I get the feeling that you are therefore saying to try not to have expectations. Or are you just saying that getting angry over your expectations is a waste of energy? I can understand the latter. Do you think all anger is a waste of energy?
Yes I 'expect' people not to 'abuse' and 'mistreat' their children. When I see it happen, I could get angry and go off on the parent, and to be honest, years ago I would and did, today instead of anger I take action ie talk with the parent if I know them, in quiet tones, explaining about 'positive' training rather than negative, however if the parent is unreceptive or this is a repeat I have been known to call CPS and will continue to do so if a situation calls for it. Same thing with animal abuse and I am deeply involved with our animal shelter and animal control here. I don't like what is happening to our vets and our returning military and the problems they are having getting help from the VA so that is another cause I work on passionately.
What I am trying to say is anger for me is defeatist to ME. Instead of getting angry about things in the world I channel my discomfort into doing something positive in my own small way to change whatever is giving me such negativity.
I want my child to put his shoes on, its the 4th time I've asked and we're now late, I'm angry that he hasn't put his shoes
I didn't say the above to put you down, only to show you how my 'attitude' has changed. I had to learn 'new ways' of handling everyday situations in my life.
You see I had my first RAGE attack at 4 or 5 years old. I am talking far beyond 'anger.' They were so bad that when they happened all I could hear was a 'roar' in my ears and I would literally see nothing but RED in front of me. Those rage episodes would totally drain me. As I improved in recovery from alcoholism, I thought I was doing petty good when I could 'get angry' without going into a rage. However, I soon started to realize those those times when I would get 'angry', they were depleting me almost as much as the 'rage' did. I would literally be exhausted.
So as I said above I had to learn how to change my 'attitudes' and change how I acted toward others and how I reacted to others.
It doesn't happen overnight. It takes lots of practice and ongoing practice on my part.
I just don't like 'negative' emotions and feelings as I know they are not good for me.
I don't believe in 'justifiable anger' today. I don't believe any anger is justified. I do believe there are times that I have and do see actions that make me extremely uncomfortable. It is what I do about the discomfort that is important ..................... ie if it is something illegal I notify the authorities, if it is a toxic person (alkie/addict still practicing) I remove myself, etc
I hope the above didn't 'muddy' the concept further and maybe gave you a hint of where I come from on the subject of anger/resentment.
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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Anger vs. rage
For me I have learned that there is a huge difference between anger and rage
I can and have been enraged when I take something happening personally...in other words HAVE FELT POWERLESS OR VICTIMIZED
Anger can be a valuable tool, it can motivate the action needed to make changes. Motivational dissatisfaction. It has taken me a long time to see this ... and it is for me a process ... the rage only made me physically and mentally ill. Seeing the difference and practicing it tho are not the same.
Now if I feel angry I try to develop a list of Smart Questions...this is to aid me in not permitting my rage to take over...the questions can be basic or personal. Just a tool.
One of the reasons I never had children is because I was afraid of the rage I had demonstrated as a younger person. My AH has a great ability to bring it out in me in the past...only recently have I decided to relinquish that surrender that...I guess it is a part of control and judgment.
I'm sure not all will agree...but that isn't required...just my perspective.
I can and have been enraged when I take something happening personally...in other words HAVE FELT POWERLESS OR VICTIMIZED
Anger can be a valuable tool, it can motivate the action needed to make changes. Motivational dissatisfaction. It has taken me a long time to see this ... and it is for me a process ... the rage only made me physically and mentally ill. Seeing the difference and practicing it tho are not the same.
Now if I feel angry I try to develop a list of Smart Questions...this is to aid me in not permitting my rage to take over...the questions can be basic or personal. Just a tool.
One of the reasons I never had children is because I was afraid of the rage I had demonstrated as a younger person. My AH has a great ability to bring it out in me in the past...only recently have I decided to relinquish that surrender that...I guess it is a part of control and judgment.
I'm sure not all will agree...but that isn't required...just my perspective.
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Thanks Laurie, and everyone,
lots to think about, and I do want to be more patient, especially with my children, anger doesn't take me over any more, and I climb down quickly and I apologise straight away but I have a shorter fuse than I would like, working on recognising my expectations can't hurt.
(I have to say the one about my son and his shoes: giving him more time doesn' t help, he just gets distracted with more things, he knows how to do it, he just prefers to do other things, he's 6 LOL)
lots to think about, and I do want to be more patient, especially with my children, anger doesn't take me over any more, and I climb down quickly and I apologise straight away but I have a shorter fuse than I would like, working on recognising my expectations can't hurt.
(I have to say the one about my son and his shoes: giving him more time doesn' t help, he just gets distracted with more things, he knows how to do it, he just prefers to do other things, he's 6 LOL)
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