Is it alcoholism? (looong!)
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2
Is it alcoholism? (looong!)
I'm very new here. I'm in my 40s, have three kids ranging from elementary to high school age, and have been married for almost 20 years. My husband has always been a weekend drinker, but his drinking is starting to be a problem. No, it's been a problem for several years, but it seems to be increasing all of a sudden.
Compared to other stories I've read here, m problems (ours) are minor. But I'm at a point where I'm looking for answers, trying to decide if my concern is justified, and worried about the messages my kids are getting about drinking.
In college, my husband was old enough to drink, and he did. I only saw him fall-down drunk twice, once in the dorms and once right before we got married. When he drank in the dorm, he tended to keep track of what he was drinking and got what he called buzzed. Always on weekends.
Once we were married and out of college, the weekend drinking continued. Over the years it has developed from 3 - 4 beers each night, both Friday and Saturday nights, to 5 - 6 and now up to 7 - 8. He has little self-imposed rules -- what times he starts and stops drinking, etc. He keeps his beer in the garage, never in the family fridge. If he can, he spends at least one weekend evening in the basement, tinkering with hobbies or watching tv or movies, so I can't see how much he drinks. He openly drinks from a 12 pack, but also stashes additional beers that somehow he thinks I don't know about -- he opens the extra cans and pours it into the bottles from the 12 pack and hides the cans in the trash. Last week he was willingly late for dinner in order to stop on the way home to buy those extra beers. Used to be 1 extra (in addition to the 12 pack) large can of beer, now he's up to 2. He used to hide the additional beers in various places in the garage, all of which I found either by accident (beers falling out of cabinets, etc) or because I started looking. Way back, years ago, I also found beers hidden in his car (not that he was drinking them there, just hiding them there, that might have been before we had a garage).
Most weekends (2 - 4 times/month) he goes to a bar on Saturday nights for the music. He claims to only have "a couple" of drinks while there (usually there 2 - 4 hours). He's been doing this for over 10 years. About a year ago, when our oldest child became old enough to babysit the other two, I went with. He had 3 beers because I was there to drive, he said. But I've long suspected that he is drinking more there and driving home.
I know this is problem drinking because it has created problems between us. Obviously I have trust issues because I know he's hidden how much he drinks for years. I wonder what other things he's hidden -- does he stop at bars on the way home from work? Is he still hiding even more beers that I haven't stumbled on? Does he just stop on the way home and drink them and get rid of the bottles or cans? I've gone through periods of time of wondering if the Saturday nights had anything to do with another woman, but the reality is that all of our trust problems revolve around drinking.
Our oldest child is in high school. All our kids see that dad buys beer, but they don't see him drink it. They just see empties in the trash and him buying again the next week. I don't want them growing up thinking drinking is something to do alone, something to hide and lie about. But it's what they're learning from their dad.
There's no abuse (thank God). He doesn't get mean or yell or even act crazy. But our relationship is affected -- I truly feel he'd spend from 10 pm - 2 am every single Friday and Saturday by himself drinking if I wasn't insisting that we try to spend one evening a weekend together. I seldom stay up as late as he does on weekends which affects our sex life (not to mention the fact that alcohol negatively impacts his performance). And he's up to 7 - 9 beers per night, up to 15 in what really comes to a 28 hour period EVERY WEEK. Where is it going?? When does it cross the line?
Anyway...just interested in any feedback from more experienced and knowledgeable folks.
Compared to other stories I've read here, m problems (ours) are minor. But I'm at a point where I'm looking for answers, trying to decide if my concern is justified, and worried about the messages my kids are getting about drinking.
In college, my husband was old enough to drink, and he did. I only saw him fall-down drunk twice, once in the dorms and once right before we got married. When he drank in the dorm, he tended to keep track of what he was drinking and got what he called buzzed. Always on weekends.
Once we were married and out of college, the weekend drinking continued. Over the years it has developed from 3 - 4 beers each night, both Friday and Saturday nights, to 5 - 6 and now up to 7 - 8. He has little self-imposed rules -- what times he starts and stops drinking, etc. He keeps his beer in the garage, never in the family fridge. If he can, he spends at least one weekend evening in the basement, tinkering with hobbies or watching tv or movies, so I can't see how much he drinks. He openly drinks from a 12 pack, but also stashes additional beers that somehow he thinks I don't know about -- he opens the extra cans and pours it into the bottles from the 12 pack and hides the cans in the trash. Last week he was willingly late for dinner in order to stop on the way home to buy those extra beers. Used to be 1 extra (in addition to the 12 pack) large can of beer, now he's up to 2. He used to hide the additional beers in various places in the garage, all of which I found either by accident (beers falling out of cabinets, etc) or because I started looking. Way back, years ago, I also found beers hidden in his car (not that he was drinking them there, just hiding them there, that might have been before we had a garage).
Most weekends (2 - 4 times/month) he goes to a bar on Saturday nights for the music. He claims to only have "a couple" of drinks while there (usually there 2 - 4 hours). He's been doing this for over 10 years. About a year ago, when our oldest child became old enough to babysit the other two, I went with. He had 3 beers because I was there to drive, he said. But I've long suspected that he is drinking more there and driving home.
I know this is problem drinking because it has created problems between us. Obviously I have trust issues because I know he's hidden how much he drinks for years. I wonder what other things he's hidden -- does he stop at bars on the way home from work? Is he still hiding even more beers that I haven't stumbled on? Does he just stop on the way home and drink them and get rid of the bottles or cans? I've gone through periods of time of wondering if the Saturday nights had anything to do with another woman, but the reality is that all of our trust problems revolve around drinking.
Our oldest child is in high school. All our kids see that dad buys beer, but they don't see him drink it. They just see empties in the trash and him buying again the next week. I don't want them growing up thinking drinking is something to do alone, something to hide and lie about. But it's what they're learning from their dad.
There's no abuse (thank God). He doesn't get mean or yell or even act crazy. But our relationship is affected -- I truly feel he'd spend from 10 pm - 2 am every single Friday and Saturday by himself drinking if I wasn't insisting that we try to spend one evening a weekend together. I seldom stay up as late as he does on weekends which affects our sex life (not to mention the fact that alcohol negatively impacts his performance). And he's up to 7 - 9 beers per night, up to 15 in what really comes to a 28 hour period EVERY WEEK. Where is it going?? When does it cross the line?
Anyway...just interested in any feedback from more experienced and knowledgeable folks.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
Hiya icygirl!
Glad you found this place.
Does your AH know how you feel about the drinking? It seems like there is a lot of denial and minimizing going on over at your house. My father was an alcoholic when I was growing up. Just because it wasn't a dramatic scene day after day doesn't mean we kids weren't DEEPLY affected. My dad kept his job, never had a DUI (although he was brought home by the cops several times, he was never charged) And believe me the drama increases! It always does - even if it is in the form of intense shame and denial and unspoken rage or occasional horrible scenes when everything spills out.
All three of my brothers became alcoholics, and my sister struggles with all kinds of codependent issues, as does my Mom. I was lucky (?) because when I walked into AlAnon in my early twenties I was in so much pain that I just followed directions and listened and began unraveling all the damage that alcoholism had done in my life. AlAnon saved my life.
Have you considered AlAnon? It is free and it helps you get the focus off the alcoholic and onto you and your life, and what's best for your kids. There is also AlAteen if your teenager is interested....it really helped me deal with my childhood and with my brothers ongoing struggles with booze. I wish I had known about it in high school.
You mention that his drinking has escalated and that he hides booze. These are typical things that alcoholics do. And unfortunately alcoholism is a progressive disease. It ONLY gets worse, until the alcoholic chooses sobriety and recovery. I learned in AlAnon that there is nothing I can do to force my brothers to choose recovery....but there were many things I could do to stop enabling and being an ally to their addiction.
It sounds like he has no consequences at all for his drinking. He's got his routine and his protected situation and the secrecy he needs. Alcoholism thrives on denial and secrecy, and the alcoholic will often make us question our own sanity - like "am I making a big deal out of this? Is he really an alcoholic?" that denial and minimizing keeps us loved ones from facing reality as long as possible. Unfortunately we are damaging ourselves and our families -- the alcoholic parent & codependent parent combo is toxic for kids.
Keep reading and posting -- you'll find lots of great folks here - collectively on SR we've seen it all so you are not alone!
peace-
b
Glad you found this place.
Does your AH know how you feel about the drinking? It seems like there is a lot of denial and minimizing going on over at your house. My father was an alcoholic when I was growing up. Just because it wasn't a dramatic scene day after day doesn't mean we kids weren't DEEPLY affected. My dad kept his job, never had a DUI (although he was brought home by the cops several times, he was never charged) And believe me the drama increases! It always does - even if it is in the form of intense shame and denial and unspoken rage or occasional horrible scenes when everything spills out.
All three of my brothers became alcoholics, and my sister struggles with all kinds of codependent issues, as does my Mom. I was lucky (?) because when I walked into AlAnon in my early twenties I was in so much pain that I just followed directions and listened and began unraveling all the damage that alcoholism had done in my life. AlAnon saved my life.
Have you considered AlAnon? It is free and it helps you get the focus off the alcoholic and onto you and your life, and what's best for your kids. There is also AlAteen if your teenager is interested....it really helped me deal with my childhood and with my brothers ongoing struggles with booze. I wish I had known about it in high school.
You mention that his drinking has escalated and that he hides booze. These are typical things that alcoholics do. And unfortunately alcoholism is a progressive disease. It ONLY gets worse, until the alcoholic chooses sobriety and recovery. I learned in AlAnon that there is nothing I can do to force my brothers to choose recovery....but there were many things I could do to stop enabling and being an ally to their addiction.
It sounds like he has no consequences at all for his drinking. He's got his routine and his protected situation and the secrecy he needs. Alcoholism thrives on denial and secrecy, and the alcoholic will often make us question our own sanity - like "am I making a big deal out of this? Is he really an alcoholic?" that denial and minimizing keeps us loved ones from facing reality as long as possible. Unfortunately we are damaging ourselves and our families -- the alcoholic parent & codependent parent combo is toxic for kids.
Keep reading and posting -- you'll find lots of great folks here - collectively on SR we've seen it all so you are not alone!
peace-
b
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
Welcome icygirl! glad you found this website. We know how it feels like.
Have you read the "Stickies" at the top of the forum?
You asked:
Where is it going?? When does it cross the line?
Where is it going? Sadly, alcoholism is a progressive and chronic disease.
Unless the diseased person wants to do something about it, it will always become worse. That is the nature of it. Also, it is not linear. It may seem it is getting better, the person can go without it for some time, but one thing is sure...the person will drink again. And will need to drink more.
It is chronic, if he is an alcoholic, he will always be an alcoholic.
This is a disease he has. It has nothing to do with you. You did not cause it. You cannot cure him, either. And you cannot control his way of drinking. You never did and you will never be able to do so.
When does it cross the line?
That is something you need to answer. What has to happen for you to do something different? The fact we cannot control others does not mean we are going to accept whatever they give to us.
Have you considered going to a counselor? So you can sort this one out. It is important for you to feel listened and supported.
What is important is not the label, alcoholic or not alcoholic. There are binge drinkers too. There are people that drink heavily for years then mature and never drink again. There are social drinkers that turn to the drink during tough times. Here they say only a person can call himself or herself an alcoholic.
A red flag for me when I had doubts about an ex, was the secrecy and his reaction when I said I was not ok with his way of drinking. How this topic was a "tabboo". His blank stare. My gut feeling I was secondary to his Jack Daniels bottle. And how my concerns about how he was affecting what we had, were dismissed, shrugged off, criticized.
Addiction, Lies and Relationships
All the best to you and let us know how you are doing. If you are here it is because this is bothering you, so please know your feelings are totally valid and natural. The more I knew about alcoholism, the stronger I felt. It is said when faced alone, alcoholism is unsurmountable, but faced in a group we find hope, strength and direction.
Have you read the "Stickies" at the top of the forum?
You asked:
Where is it going?? When does it cross the line?
Where is it going? Sadly, alcoholism is a progressive and chronic disease.
Unless the diseased person wants to do something about it, it will always become worse. That is the nature of it. Also, it is not linear. It may seem it is getting better, the person can go without it for some time, but one thing is sure...the person will drink again. And will need to drink more.
It is chronic, if he is an alcoholic, he will always be an alcoholic.
This is a disease he has. It has nothing to do with you. You did not cause it. You cannot cure him, either. And you cannot control his way of drinking. You never did and you will never be able to do so.
When does it cross the line?
That is something you need to answer. What has to happen for you to do something different? The fact we cannot control others does not mean we are going to accept whatever they give to us.
Have you considered going to a counselor? So you can sort this one out. It is important for you to feel listened and supported.
What is important is not the label, alcoholic or not alcoholic. There are binge drinkers too. There are people that drink heavily for years then mature and never drink again. There are social drinkers that turn to the drink during tough times. Here they say only a person can call himself or herself an alcoholic.
A red flag for me when I had doubts about an ex, was the secrecy and his reaction when I said I was not ok with his way of drinking. How this topic was a "tabboo". His blank stare. My gut feeling I was secondary to his Jack Daniels bottle. And how my concerns about how he was affecting what we had, were dismissed, shrugged off, criticized.
Addiction, Lies and Relationships
All the best to you and let us know how you are doing. If you are here it is because this is bothering you, so please know your feelings are totally valid and natural. The more I knew about alcoholism, the stronger I felt. It is said when faced alone, alcoholism is unsurmountable, but faced in a group we find hope, strength and direction.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by TakingCharge999 
A red flag for me when I had doubts about an ex, was the secrecy and his reaction when I said I was not ok with his way of drinking. How this topic was a "tabboo". His blank stare. My gut feeling I was secondary to his Jack Daniels bottle. And how my concerns about how he was affecting what we had, were dismissed, shrugged off, criticized.
Thanks for your response!
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Quebec
Posts: 2,708
Originally Posted by TakingCharge999
A red flag for me when I had doubts about an ex, was the secrecy and his reaction when I said I was not ok with his way of drinking. How this topic was a "tabboo". His blank stare. My gut feeling I was secondary to his Jack Daniels bottle.
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,059
hi icygirl-
if it was me, i would want to get the facts. for myself, i required the facts in order to see the truth in the stark clear light. what i discovered was that i previously had no idea as to the extent of his drinking.
here's what i would do, if i was in your shoes.
1. i would start a daily journal of his behavior, noting money spent, contribution to the family work load, how much he eats (drinkers don't eat much if they are drinking), and how many beers i thought he drank.
2. i would break the downstairs refrigerator. i imagine you can research how to do this safely. some ideas that come to mind is cut a wire somewhere, trip the circuit that powers it, whatever.
3. i would take up a hobby in the basement, like setting up my sewing machine there, for example. during the weekend, i would take on a sewing project which would permit me to come in and out of the basement.
4. i would unannounced pop into the bar he goes to, to have a night out also and see what's going on. settle in at the bar, meet his friends, and as they get drunker, they will talk. you won't even have to ask anything. they will be drunk and they will talk. trust me on this one.
5. i would start looking at time and date stamps on receipts.
6. i would monitor phone bills from previous months, looking for saturday afternoon in particular, to see if he is setting up a rendez-vous.
7. start checking coat pockets for clues.
8. i'd start waiting up with my new sewing hobby or whatever to see what state he arrives home in, or what state he has drank himself into. take a nap in the daytime and shift your schedule to match his.
9. pay attention when he pees. beer drinkers pee rivers.
i imagine i'll take some flack for this advice, but for myself, i needed the facts in order to make a decision to leave my relationship, which i had years and years invested in.
from what you have described, it sounds as if there is plenty of time for him to be heavily drinking while you are tucked away either in your bed or in another part of the house.
i would mix it up a bit and become myself somewhat unpredictable. he is counting on your routine, your schedule.
mine became very anxious when i mixed it up. he would demand that i not go places with him or pop up places. i paid no mind.
what i discovered was that the drinking was WAY BEYOND MY WILDEST IMAGINATION and we lived together. mine was a very good liar.
the signs you have described in your post we hear here all the time. i would render a bet that you are only seeing the tip of the iceberg.
just my two cents.
naive (no more)
if it was me, i would want to get the facts. for myself, i required the facts in order to see the truth in the stark clear light. what i discovered was that i previously had no idea as to the extent of his drinking.
here's what i would do, if i was in your shoes.
1. i would start a daily journal of his behavior, noting money spent, contribution to the family work load, how much he eats (drinkers don't eat much if they are drinking), and how many beers i thought he drank.
2. i would break the downstairs refrigerator. i imagine you can research how to do this safely. some ideas that come to mind is cut a wire somewhere, trip the circuit that powers it, whatever.
3. i would take up a hobby in the basement, like setting up my sewing machine there, for example. during the weekend, i would take on a sewing project which would permit me to come in and out of the basement.
4. i would unannounced pop into the bar he goes to, to have a night out also and see what's going on. settle in at the bar, meet his friends, and as they get drunker, they will talk. you won't even have to ask anything. they will be drunk and they will talk. trust me on this one.
5. i would start looking at time and date stamps on receipts.
6. i would monitor phone bills from previous months, looking for saturday afternoon in particular, to see if he is setting up a rendez-vous.
7. start checking coat pockets for clues.
8. i'd start waiting up with my new sewing hobby or whatever to see what state he arrives home in, or what state he has drank himself into. take a nap in the daytime and shift your schedule to match his.
9. pay attention when he pees. beer drinkers pee rivers.
i imagine i'll take some flack for this advice, but for myself, i needed the facts in order to make a decision to leave my relationship, which i had years and years invested in.
from what you have described, it sounds as if there is plenty of time for him to be heavily drinking while you are tucked away either in your bed or in another part of the house.
i would mix it up a bit and become myself somewhat unpredictable. he is counting on your routine, your schedule.
mine became very anxious when i mixed it up. he would demand that i not go places with him or pop up places. i paid no mind.
what i discovered was that the drinking was WAY BEYOND MY WILDEST IMAGINATION and we lived together. mine was a very good liar.
the signs you have described in your post we hear here all the time. i would render a bet that you are only seeing the tip of the iceberg.
just my two cents.
naive (no more)
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: east siiiide
Posts: 254
Naive, as I read your list I was thinking--aren't these all the codie no-nos?? but Then I guess you have this point--most of us go through a time where we suddenly start to realize what we didn't know, and that helps us move on. I guess that information-gathering phase is important? Then again some say that if they are already hiding their drinking and lying about how much, what more evidence do you need... they are alcoholic, it's progressive, and regardless of the details you're in for a ride unless you get off.
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