honoryourself

So I finally got out of my office and was able to catch the lawyer I was referred to on the phone. His speciality is family law (read: divorce law) and immigration, which is very important to my situation, as my husband is here on a visa dependent on our marriage, and I signed some paperwork basically pledging to support him financially (wow I suck, I wonder if I will ever trust again... maybe more critically!). Anyway, that's a requirement in order to have someone come here on a marriage visa, etc.

He told me an initial consultation would be 300 dollars (and take an hour, maybe a little more). Drawing up Separation papers etc., would cost 300/hour and probably take about 2 hours or so, depending on how much back and forth negotiation there is.

Does this sound right / high to you? Man I wish I could get paid 300/hr for my esteemed advice. ha!

I also finally made some calls to try to lock down my credit cards that have high limits (and high balances, unfortunately) where he is an authorized user. One card company was less than helpful but that one's near the limit anyway, not much he can do with that. I will deal with it again later. The other one they were good enough to remove him as an authorized user, change the card number, issue a replacement and mail it to my work. That way he can no longer make charges. The negative part to all of this is I wonder if now that he is no longer 'on' the card, will I be able to enforce that the debt is half his? I guess that's what the lawyer is for.

So I am taking steps to protect myself. I thought I would feel good about it but I feel crummy, like I'm shoving him out of my life, cutting myself away from him with scissors in ways that can't be undone. It feels so final.

I'm not so ready for final yet, but I know I should be based on his actions. I don't know what he's doing today, he's home from work again. I think he talked to his mom about something that happened to him as a kid and is going through those emotions right now, and maybe these are reasons why he has problems now, but there isn't anything I can do about that. Unless he goes and gets himself help, talking about it once to his mom or admitting it to me is not going to result in him dealing with the pain he feels.

I feel kind of guilty moving forwards with all of this when I do believe he is going through a time. But at the same time, it's not like he's even being nice to me. So I don't know why I feel guilty. Maybe it's not guilt but rather compassion. But I was able to get some stuff done today. I did not make the appointment with the lawyer yet.. I can call back. But I wanted some input on whether or not this sounds ridiculously expensive. Good advice at a time like this is invaluable, so I'm sure it is probably worth the extra hundred or so to get the specific legal advice I need.

Maybe it's not about the money that I'm waiting on (though I have none, this would be more debt.. boo), but on my mind to be able to wrap itself around the idea that putting down 300 dollars and making an appointment with a divorce attorney means I'm really headed towards divorce. It's really not something I want to do.. but I guess I know it's right.

What did you all do when you felt yourself wanting to take little baby steps rather than giant leaps forwards? When you felt yourself questioning your readiness? I think you can all see that I am sitting here like a deer in headlights waiting for something so awful to happen that I don't have a choice in the matter..

rdy4change

Yes, mine is about $275/hr and the entire retainer is $2000. It is tough because in my opinion all they're doing is filling out forms. But, it is what it is.

I feel for you. I've had my marital termination agreement sitting at my attorney's office for 2 weeks. Can't figure out why I can't just bite the bullet. I've been married 10 years but we've been together 20. He was a great provider until the walls started caving in and here we are. I too have been taking baby steps to provide for myself and prepare for 'the hammer'. I traded the vehicle I was driving in for one that would be in my name only and I wouldn't have a payment. Paid off credit cards (they weren't joint but still preparing financially), saved money on my own and talk to anyone who will listen. It's amazing the tips and tricks you find out through networking.

I've felt guilty for the past months because I know that I'm being very deceptive. But, he probably doesn't feel guilty for dumping most of our money down his throat or putting us in a situation where we can't afford to pay our bills anymore. So...in order to save myself and my daughter, it's time for me to be greedy and selfish.

I too am preparing but waiting for something to happen that will make my giant leap forward easier. I am however starting to finally realize that may never happen. Baby steps are all you can do for now....we all move at our own pace that makes the situation controllable for us.

nodaybut2day

honoryourself...I may have posted this before, but here it is again anyhow.

My family law lawyer came recommended to me by the domestic violence shelter I called for advise. She charges 60$ per hour for the first hour, and then 125$ per hour afterwards. She's also a young lawyer who just struck out on her own after working in a big firm, because she felt it was "too impersonal". Also, there is no retainer fee, since most of the women she deals with are dirt poor and qualify for legal aid.

As a legal assistant for a labor and employment law lawyer, I can tell you that my boss' hourly rate varies between 350$ and 425$, so a 300$ per hour rate is reasonable, although on the higher end. The retainer is standard. I just put down a few hundred in my lawyer's trust account to pay for the court fees (176$ for the divorce) and the bailifff (about 30$). These fees may vary in your area...

Honestly, I'd shop around for a lawyer that you click with. He or she will be representing your interests and it's nice to know that you have an understanding with the person. My lawyer spent a good 2 hours with me, letting me talk and talk, and only charging me 60$ for that visit. She is known for taking her time with her clients, and I truly appreciate this.

Because I was dealing with a form of abuse, I was able to call a local domestic violence hotline and get references for all kind of great people. Is that possible in your case?

With regards to the finality of it, I did feel a bit queasy when I went in to sign the divorce and custody papers. I STILL haven't had my XH served with these papers, maybe because I'm giving him a chance and hoping that we can work something reasonable out in mediation...

honoryourself

thanks rdy, it helps to hear your perspective in a similar situation. I am lucky to have only been with my husband a shorter time, I suppose. Theoretically that should make it easier, but then I'm left with the wondering of 'did I do everything I could, in sickness and in health, as I vowed?' .. Honestly I don't know what more I can do, he wont contribute financially (has a host of excuses, always waiting for me to take the first step when he hasn't paid for anything in months), and he doesn't see that he has a problem with drinking anymore.
He's blowing through money in a way that makes me wonder if he's got a drug or gambling habit on the side these days. I know he had a rough upbringing but unless he wants a rough adulthood he'll have to do something to change his life, starting with taking care of himself and getting the help he needs. I can't make him do that.

What kinds of tips are you referring to from talking to people? Maybe I could use some. I took care of the credit cards (mostly), but we have a TON of joint debt and most all of it is in my name and/or owed to my parents without a written note loan. Tehcnically he could basically walk away from it all. The car titles are both in my name thank goodness. I am primary on our home loan, but if he won't leave the house I don't know what I'll do. Personally I don't even want the house anymore if we aren't together, seems like that will increase the sadness, if I'm here and he's not. The house was bought together for US and yet he's not taking care of it.

Leaves his clothes out in the yard, his beer bottles, cigarette butts everywhere, lets his expensive grills rust because he's too lazy to put the cover over it that's sitting right next to it, leaves trash from cooking in the yard, etc.. and that's just the exterior.

I look around and wonder how someone with so many nice things can care so little to take care of them, and seem so unappreciative and unhappy. But really, money can't buy you happiness, it has to come from within. I guess he thought he could fill his life up with alcohol and distractions and then on the outside it would look like he was doing well, even if on the inside he was suffering.

I have a long way to go too, to find my own happiness with myself as well.

As far as the hammer falling, I'm not there yet, but I am still moving. As long as I don't forget what got me here, I guess I will be going in the right direction.

I haven't heard of the retainer method.. is that what you pay up front and they put it towards all the time they spend on your case?


Do you expect your H to go nuts when he finds out you're filing / you're serving him?
Do you expect him to work with you on your divorce or separation, or will you be fighting tooth and nail with a crazy active A? That's what I'm worried about too.

tjp613

I recently had to go back to modify my divorce decree and went back to my original attorney. She's $275/hour. But she was not available to take the case and one of her younger associates took care of it for $125/hour! It worked out great because when she needed help with tough questions she just 'consulted' with the more senior partners and I only got billed for those few minutes with the more expensive lawyer. My retainer was $2,000...and I got BACK $1200!! Woo hoo! Maybe contract with a larger firm that has a wide variety of experience and just tell them you can't afford $275/ hour!

honoryourself

Because of my income I doubt I would qualify for any form of legal aid... that's not to say I have any money... it's all going to our enormous debt each month.

As far as abuse, there isn't any physical abuse. Emotional and verbal, yes I'm sure. But it's not that kind of case, is what I'm saying.

The part that is important is for me to get information specifically regarding the immigration part of this case as well, because we could end up financially trainwrecked (my parents and I) for signing this paperwork when I filed for his immigration status..
The guy knew what he was talking about wrt / immigration, so I know he is familiar and he says he gets a lot of referrals for this specific work. I could probably do some google searches and look around for someone else to shop their rates too.

Thanks for the responses.

rdy4change

Honor...what I mean by talking to people is that as I talk with people who have gotten divorced, they have some good advice....good, bad and even ugly but then you know exactly where you stand. People can tell you different ways to handle a situation such as - how to get him out of your house and how to handle your debt. You'd be amazed at what you find in others and how situations seem very different yet are very similar. Case in point... SR!

The only thing AH and I have jointly is our house/cabin. He'll be filing bankruptcy and I'm trying to avoid it. However, I may have to if I can't get the properties sold. It sound like a benefit for you that most everything is in your name and if it's solely in your name, you have full control to sell it. Example..do you need two cars? Sell one and pay off other debt. I was really struggling with this scenario...I pride myself on paying my bills and maintaining good credit. However, there is a bigger situation here to address and that's my happiness. As my brother said, he's a sinking ship...you can bail and get a little wet (filing for bankruptcy) or you can go down with him. Wet is a small price to pay.

Taking care of things? ha ha...AH used to be very clean cut...the type that even wore khaki shorts when working in the yard - never jean shorts. Now I'm lucky if he showers every other day.

Yes, the retainer is where they put it towards your case. I don't get any back though as tjp said. I believe it goes toward any additional costs going forward if I need to modify anything as time goes by. If your H knows and will agree with a divorce you could do mediation. I think that's significantly cheaper. Or I think you can even try it and if no agreement is made it would go to court. I'm not 100%.

My H finally has let it click (I think) that I have papers ready to go. He avoided coming home 2 days last week for fear of being served. We have talked about it and he realized that I gave him an ultimatum. I just keep telling him I still love him but won't live like this anymore. He's angry but not being mean and hopefully won't be. I'm just waiting to hear from a bankruptcy attorney if I should file papers before he files for B. No one can give me a straight answer. Otherwise, I'm really ready to go. Found a townhouse and everything.

I was worried about fighting but as you've read...not much left to fight for. Well, except for happiness I guess!

honoryourself

Wow, thanks for all the info

The cars are titled in my name but my H is a cosigner on the loan for the car that I use for myself. Kind of messy. When we first moved here I had a car from my parents and we bought him a car using my credit (he had none established yet as an immigrant), so HIS car is really all in my name, unfortunately his car stinks. It cost a lot of money used (like 17k) 2 years ago, and since then it's been in a hit and run while parked and has a huge dent in the front, runs poorly, is trashed inside (he used to clean it every weekend!) and stinks of smoke, and needs registration renewed next month etc etc. I wish it were not mine.. we had no downpayment for it so it's upside down in the loan. I couldn't sell it and be better off for it, that's for sure, not in the condition it's in. I also can't drive it.. it's stick.. I don't know how to .

My car is a little over one year old now, I bought it because the one from my parents gave up the ghost. It was new but we had a few K to put down, so it's in a slightly better position financially. I was the lead on the loan and my husband was a cosigner in order to improve his credit I believe. But in order to get our great rate I had to be primary I think. I will have to check, but I'm thinking the titles are both in my name.

I'm not sure what all this means, mind you. If he has no car he will not get to work, will not get paid and will not make money and then I'll never get him to help w/ the debt. We have nearly 30k in unsecured debt (mostly credit cards) that we acquired while he tried to start his business this year, and while we just bought a house last year.

The house could not be sold, I'm sure.. the payment was just what we could afford when both of us were working to make money. I can't afford it all on my own, I'd need a roomate. That's IF he would agree to move out. And even if he does move out, I don't know how he'd afford that PLUS paying off any of our debts, as that would greatly increase his living costs. In order to divorce in my state we have to be physically separated for at least 1 year, which means we HAVE to have separate residences. This adds strain. I wouldn't mind moving out but I don't trust him to make the mortgage payments in his state of mind. We are joint on the biggie.. the mortgage. Then we owe nearly 20k to my parents for money they lent us as an investment in my H's business that flopped this year. Mostly spent on bills, alcohol and cigarettes.. or whatever else he felt he deserved, plus some business expenses. Oh yeah, we paid his good friend and supposed future employee's CELL bill for 3 months and CAR PAYMENT for one month with it, but no I wasn't told until AFTEr that was done. GRRRRR

I really really want to avoid bankruptcy.. I know it could be 'easier' just to give up, let it all go, and start over.. but .. I want to try to pay it off and stay in the clear. I hope he will help pay it down. I hope he gets help, but if he doesn't and he can't, maybe I can find a higher paying job, rent one or two rooms in the house, which might be pushing it... and find a way to scrape by.

CAPTAINZING2000

Can you go into detail why you married him? This wasn't about getting him into teh states legally is it?

rdy4change

Oh Honor...It's so stressful and your mind will do nothing but race trying to figure it all out. I guess the only way to start would be getting divorced (when you're ready of course) and then dealing with whatever debt is left after the fact. Sounds like we're both in a pickle! Hugs your way...I feel your pain. You can only deal with one thing at a time.

laurie6781

Call Immigration. Since he is here on a 'marriage visa' and this marriage is not working, let them get involved. Tell them you are filing for divorce.

Then after calling them, go about finding a 'divorce' attorney that you 'click' with and whose rates are not overly exorbitant.

J M H O

Love and hugs,

tjp613

For those of you having these strenuous financial issues, can I suggest that you check out Dave Ramsey on the Fox News Channel? He's also got a website that's very helpful and a book or two. He specializes in helping people set up new budgets and how to deal with creditors when you're up to your eyeballs in financial problems. See Dave Ramsey Homepage - daveramsey.com

LaTeeDa

I have to say, I thought this too. So, I decided to do my own divorce, in California. I bought two books, went to a family law facilitator, and studied online. It was HARD! I had my papers bounced back by the judge three times for being done incorrectly. I saved myself a bundle of money for doing it myself, but I no longer think attorneys are a rip-off and all they do is "fill out forms." It's possible to do it yourself, but be prepared for a lot of work, learning, and time invested. They earn their money.

You can shop around and find the best deal, but don't assume there's nothing to it, because there is a lot. I found that out.

I would also advise making a plan based on him contributing nothing, because it sounds like, based on past behavior, that is likely. If he does contribute, then it will be a bonus. But, don't count on him for anything, then you won't be disappointed.

L

JenT1968

[QUOTE=honoryourself;2435364]
He told me an initial consultation would be 300 dollars (and take an hour, maybe a little more). Drawing up Separation papers etc., would cost 300/hour and probably take about 2 hours or so, depending on how much back and forth negotiation there is.
QUOTE]

LOL. My lawyer (the most junior in her firm) costs £120 (plus tax at 17.5%) an hour, we've had one initial consultation, and then she billed an extra hour to write up her notes (which needs heavily correcting), write me a letter offering to make a will for me and write another letter billing me....hmmm.

She costed a divorce where H and I agree () on all aspects of finance and child issues as between 4 and £5K. If we don't agree (LOL, hmm how likely is that?) we could each be looking at £20K each, although the sky's the limit.

it costs a bomb, no doubt about it.

nodaybut2day

Like LaTeeDa, I tried to draft my own divorce proceedings. Since I'm a legal assistant, I've drafted legal proceedings before, but never anything in family law. This was when I thought XAH and I could separate amicably, and since we had no property or investments, it would have been a very simple process. A friend of mine who is also divorcing provided me with the templates from her proceedings and I just modified them to suit my purposes. Though this friend is an highly competent legal assistant, she also hired a lawyer, but only for two consultations: the first to present her situation and have the lawyer review her divorce proceedings (to make SURE that everything was done properly and that nothing was forgotten), and the second to have the lawyer finalize, witness and submit the proceedings to the court. It didn't cost her more than 600$. So, this might be an option for someone willing to do the leg work, much like LaTeeDa did. I would have done this had there no been a child as well as issues of verbal/emotional abuse involved.

honoryourself

Gosh, I have to say I am a bit offended by this question. I fell in love with a man while traveling and living abroad. We wanted to be together. I couldn't live there forever (I was overstaying my visa) and I couldn't work legally there. He could only visit here for up to 3 months on a tourist visa. In order for us to stay together, we did move quickly into marriage, because otherwise we would have had to date at a very long distance or struggle financially because one of us couldn't work and take the constant risk of deportation. But we were in love, we wanted marriage, and we took that step more quickly than I otherwise would have if we had both met and lived here.

If on the other hand I'm misinterpreting your post and you mean to ask if this whole bit was an act for him to get into the US and get a green card, no I don't believe that at all. He has citizenship in two fantastic countries. He wasn't trying to escape some third world country or anything like that. It was a huge decision to move here, but I wouldn't have it any other way because of my family. He was less close to his.

honoryourself

Thanks for the advice but I have to laugh a bit because I have found most people (myself before, included) have a very different idea of the immigration process and of what they imagine US immigration services to be. Have you dealt with them before or are you familiar? This is why I definitely need a lawyer who is experienced with immigration law. It is a HUGE deal, involves tons of paperwork AND money AND time to get someone here even when you are married or if you get married after you arrive. One of the documents you have to file shows all of your tax records for 3 years back proving you make xx dollars above the poverty line and you are essentially signing that you will provide the cost of welfare to your 'alien' REGARDLESS whether you are still married or divorced, for up to 10 years (if they are working at all), or until they gain citizenship (which takes many years too, and many aliens prefer to stay on a green card instead, which can be renewed indefinitely I believe), or until they leave the country.
You are pretty much responsible if they take advantage of any government programs, since they are not a citizen and are here initially because of you.

USCIS ("immigration") does not give a rat's bum if your marriage is not working out, unless this happens BEFORE the green card is issued. After it's issued as long as the marriage was for real, they can get around everything and stay with a green card no matter what, plus still collect welfare from you even if you're divorced if they aren't working or meeting the poverty level. Hope this explains part of why I'm a bit freaked and why this is a difficult situation. Luckily for me I don't think my H would enjoy a lifestyle of living off the welfare level, he seems to need more $ than that!

You cannot simply call immigration and tell them to deport your spouse or ex-spouse. It's virtually impossible, and would definitely be impossible given our marriage was bona fide and not 'just for a green card'.


Soo... yeah. Fun!

tjp613

Ugh, Honor.... I feel for ya. Sounds like a royal mess! Well, One Day at a Time, eh? ((Hugs))

honoryourself

haha yep.