thoughts on this scenario:
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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thoughts on this scenario:
Last Saturday I dropped my son off for a 9 hour visit with his A father at the house where he is staying. I called at 945 am to tell him we were on our way, to be there at ten. He sounded annoyed, and somewhat confused, like they all are upon first awakening on a weekend after drinking however much night before...He lives in a part of town that is a bit of a drinking/weekend/artist colony, so he sometimes sleeps other places and can easily walk 'home' at a few moments notice.
When we arrived, we went to the back of the location, where the entrance is.
The door was wide open, and it was NOT warm out. I assumed he woke up when I called, opened the door for us, then crawled back onto the couch.
(I also, due to past experience, entertained the idea that he had just woken up at another woman's house, ran 'home' and pretended to be there all the while, forgetting to close the door. Another scenario was that there was a girl there, and he hustled her out when I called.) Didn't care either way.
Now; I said hello, said goodbye to child, hung around to be sure he was functioning and then left, leaving door open, since that was how I found it. The whole interaction took about 10 minutes.
As i was driving to work my nine hour shift, he called and screamed at me for leaving his front door open. I explained that it was wide open when we arrived, and he seemed very stumped.
Now it is Tuesday, and I just got a call at 9 am.
A: "Did you answer my phone on Saturday when you dropped off our son?
ME: "NO"
A: "are you sure?, because some one answered my phone and spoke to a client. They said it was a female who answered. If you are f*cking with my job, I will stop paying support! Whoever answered the phone then proceeded to call my client 5 times that day from a blocked number asking all kinds of questions."
ME: "I did not do any of these things. Maybe it was a girl that you were with that morning. Maybe your client was a female, and this girl is trying to find out if there is another woman."
A: "It was you. I will call AT&T and get your records. I know you did this. You are screwing with my job. If I lose my job, I will not be able to pay anything!"
Now, I was there. He was awake. He had his phone in his couch.(he sleeps with his phone. Always has. shady much?) He knows FULL well that I did not touch his phone, and that I was working for the entire 9 hours that I was not there.
This is the paranoid ridiculous crap we deal with. He is now calling and acting so perplexed about the open door... Someone must have come in and used his phone while he slept...LOL.
Anything to not have to face that he may not remember a girl he brought home. or went home with. Or realize that his drinking and blacking out and his promiscuity could potentially lose him his job; His only leverage. His only thing to hold over anybody right now.
I do feel a little sad that he already has a new one, a blind new little person to dazzle. Someone who probably just graduated from high school in the last 5 years... But I am more amused at his transparency. HIs utter inability to see how clear it is that he messed up. He may not even have known the person, or the place that he was.
During good times, when he has been able to speak about his times in the gutter, he will tell me of waking up in parts of town. He would detail opening his eyes...the moments that it took for him to realize that he was not in a familiar place. The awful moment of turning slowly around in the bed to see who was beside him. The awkward time after waking, where he realizes the woman was not as drunk as he was, and that she thinks they really connected, and he does not even know her name. So sad. So scary. He lived like this for years . I would not want to admit falling back to this either.
When we arrived, we went to the back of the location, where the entrance is.
The door was wide open, and it was NOT warm out. I assumed he woke up when I called, opened the door for us, then crawled back onto the couch.
(I also, due to past experience, entertained the idea that he had just woken up at another woman's house, ran 'home' and pretended to be there all the while, forgetting to close the door. Another scenario was that there was a girl there, and he hustled her out when I called.) Didn't care either way.
Now; I said hello, said goodbye to child, hung around to be sure he was functioning and then left, leaving door open, since that was how I found it. The whole interaction took about 10 minutes.
As i was driving to work my nine hour shift, he called and screamed at me for leaving his front door open. I explained that it was wide open when we arrived, and he seemed very stumped.
Now it is Tuesday, and I just got a call at 9 am.
A: "Did you answer my phone on Saturday when you dropped off our son?
ME: "NO"
A: "are you sure?, because some one answered my phone and spoke to a client. They said it was a female who answered. If you are f*cking with my job, I will stop paying support! Whoever answered the phone then proceeded to call my client 5 times that day from a blocked number asking all kinds of questions."
ME: "I did not do any of these things. Maybe it was a girl that you were with that morning. Maybe your client was a female, and this girl is trying to find out if there is another woman."
A: "It was you. I will call AT&T and get your records. I know you did this. You are screwing with my job. If I lose my job, I will not be able to pay anything!"
Now, I was there. He was awake. He had his phone in his couch.(he sleeps with his phone. Always has. shady much?) He knows FULL well that I did not touch his phone, and that I was working for the entire 9 hours that I was not there.
This is the paranoid ridiculous crap we deal with. He is now calling and acting so perplexed about the open door... Someone must have come in and used his phone while he slept...LOL.
Anything to not have to face that he may not remember a girl he brought home. or went home with. Or realize that his drinking and blacking out and his promiscuity could potentially lose him his job; His only leverage. His only thing to hold over anybody right now.
I do feel a little sad that he already has a new one, a blind new little person to dazzle. Someone who probably just graduated from high school in the last 5 years... But I am more amused at his transparency. HIs utter inability to see how clear it is that he messed up. He may not even have known the person, or the place that he was.
During good times, when he has been able to speak about his times in the gutter, he will tell me of waking up in parts of town. He would detail opening his eyes...the moments that it took for him to realize that he was not in a familiar place. The awful moment of turning slowly around in the bed to see who was beside him. The awkward time after waking, where he realizes the woman was not as drunk as he was, and that she thinks they really connected, and he does not even know her name. So sad. So scary. He lived like this for years . I would not want to admit falling back to this either.
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Yikes. He's really in bad shape if he's blacking out like that.
Is it safe to leave your son with him when he's like that? If he can't remember who was there or who answered his phone, surely he can't be responsible for the safety of a child?
Is it safe to leave your son with him when he's like that? If he can't remember who was there or who answered his phone, surely he can't be responsible for the safety of a child?
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
He does not drink alcohol until after 8 pm. This is his "new leaf" He also is living with a female roommate who is a mutual and platonic friend. She is very present, and she stays when he has our child. She says she does it out of concern. She is crazy for letting him stay there, but it is a big place.
During the day, the worst that he is w/ our child is cranky(hungover), or rigid. Unfortunately, I cannot stipulate that he be sweet. I alos need to work, and it would absorb all my pay to pay a sitter for nine hours.
My son is almost 5 years old and his father has NEVER spent a night alone with him. After 8 pm I am a solo parent. Even when we lived together. He knows he has been unfit to be around him when consuming.
Also, he went (almost four months now) from drinking liquor all day every day to only beer in the evenings. Now, when he has work he keeps it to around seven to nine beers a night before bed. He cannot sleep otherwise, and my son is in bed by then.
But on the weekends, LOOK OUT! He is making up for lost time. He still wont drink all day. and he wont with the child, now. BUT, he will drink until all hours.
Its no new news that he is a real alcoholic mess. He is just a bit less of an alcoholic mess.
This scenario above happened on a Friday/Saturday and is the first Ive seen any sign of that blackout promiscuity type of thing in last four months, but know that before then it was an average of 2 to 4 nights a week he would end up this way. He is very attractive. Its a terrible combination.
He goes back to some of these girls repeatedly, as well. He has maintained entire relationships for extended periods of time only existing with the woman from 2am til 10am. Being unruly in the morning, then leaving...then they will see him out again, sh*tfaced at closing time, lonely, amourous,playing up the victim... and he is attractive and charming.Even when drunk. It takes these women a long time to find out that he actually has no recollection of the nights before. He has told many of them that he loves them.He does not recall. They think it is true. He has hurt many people.
I feel OK to leave my son with him during light day hours. He would leave him with our friend before getting loaded with him there. That is one redeeming thing about the man. He does know how F'ed up he is.
During the day, the worst that he is w/ our child is cranky(hungover), or rigid. Unfortunately, I cannot stipulate that he be sweet. I alos need to work, and it would absorb all my pay to pay a sitter for nine hours.
My son is almost 5 years old and his father has NEVER spent a night alone with him. After 8 pm I am a solo parent. Even when we lived together. He knows he has been unfit to be around him when consuming.
Also, he went (almost four months now) from drinking liquor all day every day to only beer in the evenings. Now, when he has work he keeps it to around seven to nine beers a night before bed. He cannot sleep otherwise, and my son is in bed by then.
But on the weekends, LOOK OUT! He is making up for lost time. He still wont drink all day. and he wont with the child, now. BUT, he will drink until all hours.
Its no new news that he is a real alcoholic mess. He is just a bit less of an alcoholic mess.
This scenario above happened on a Friday/Saturday and is the first Ive seen any sign of that blackout promiscuity type of thing in last four months, but know that before then it was an average of 2 to 4 nights a week he would end up this way. He is very attractive. Its a terrible combination.
He goes back to some of these girls repeatedly, as well. He has maintained entire relationships for extended periods of time only existing with the woman from 2am til 10am. Being unruly in the morning, then leaving...then they will see him out again, sh*tfaced at closing time, lonely, amourous,playing up the victim... and he is attractive and charming.Even when drunk. It takes these women a long time to find out that he actually has no recollection of the nights before. He has told many of them that he loves them.He does not recall. They think it is true. He has hurt many people.
I feel OK to leave my son with him during light day hours. He would leave him with our friend before getting loaded with him there. That is one redeeming thing about the man. He does know how F'ed up he is.
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PS: keep in mind... It is not that he cannot remember if I answered his phone. He is covering up the other girl. He was probably still passed out at 8am. Phone rang, girl thinks...hmmm who is THIS? she is a young girl trying to be girlfriend-y.
She probably answered, then wanted to know who the other girl was...tried calling to get info. He is a shady liar.
She probably answered, then wanted to know who the other girl was...tried calling to get info. He is a shady liar.
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,149
Hi BG,
My H tells me that he doesn't drink in the day, has had many new leaves etc, The thing I have had repeatedly demonstrated to me, is that when it comes to alcohol and his patterns of drinking, the only constant is the lies, and that no matter how much he loves his children (and he adores them) he protects his supply above all else. I cannot assume anything when it comes to (especially) his drinking but also many other things. He hides bottles, he laces fruit juices and sports drinks with vodka, he blames the night before for alcohol smells and erratic behaviour, he accuses me of all manner of things to explain things that occurred whilst he blacked out, he believes that the police have had him followed on a number of ocassions, he lies about very simple occurrances to mutual friends who know that he is lying, he NEVER grits his teeth and rides the storm of a hangover, he drinks in the morning to lessen the severity of it.
He sees the children frequently, but never unsupervised unless I breathalyse him first. he shows up any reading at all, he doesn't have them, no matter how inconvenient it is for me, no matter whether he says it is from the night before, or mouthwash or the machine is wrong .....and only ever for a few hours.
This is my situation, I understand that it is not yours, but looking from the outside at what you have described, I am concerned.
Your son's father appears to be exhibiting paranoid, delusional, chaotic thinking and actions, you are focussing on these other women, the possibility of one that morning, the actuality of past ones, how sad it is for them, .... Well, forsure yes, it's all sad, but they are adults and it's none of your business.
meanwhile, there is a disturbing situation here: one that is fully your business. I do understand how hard parenting with an active alcoholic and trying to work and hold a line between controlling and reponsibility for minors is, and I have made mistakes.
((hugs))
My H tells me that he doesn't drink in the day, has had many new leaves etc, The thing I have had repeatedly demonstrated to me, is that when it comes to alcohol and his patterns of drinking, the only constant is the lies, and that no matter how much he loves his children (and he adores them) he protects his supply above all else. I cannot assume anything when it comes to (especially) his drinking but also many other things. He hides bottles, he laces fruit juices and sports drinks with vodka, he blames the night before for alcohol smells and erratic behaviour, he accuses me of all manner of things to explain things that occurred whilst he blacked out, he believes that the police have had him followed on a number of ocassions, he lies about very simple occurrances to mutual friends who know that he is lying, he NEVER grits his teeth and rides the storm of a hangover, he drinks in the morning to lessen the severity of it.
He sees the children frequently, but never unsupervised unless I breathalyse him first. he shows up any reading at all, he doesn't have them, no matter how inconvenient it is for me, no matter whether he says it is from the night before, or mouthwash or the machine is wrong .....and only ever for a few hours.
This is my situation, I understand that it is not yours, but looking from the outside at what you have described, I am concerned.
Your son's father appears to be exhibiting paranoid, delusional, chaotic thinking and actions, you are focussing on these other women, the possibility of one that morning, the actuality of past ones, how sad it is for them, .... Well, forsure yes, it's all sad, but they are adults and it's none of your business.
meanwhile, there is a disturbing situation here: one that is fully your business. I do understand how hard parenting with an active alcoholic and trying to work and hold a line between controlling and reponsibility for minors is, and I have made mistakes.
((hugs))
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,149
Originally Posted by Buffalo66 
PS: keep in mind... It is not that he cannot remember if I answered his phone. He is covering up the other girl. He was probably still passed out at 8am. Phone rang, girl thinks...hmmm who is THIS? she is a young girl trying to be girlfriend-y.
She probably answered, then wanted to know who the other girl was...tried calling to get info. He is a shady liar.
She probably answered, then wanted to know who the other girl was...tried calling to get info. He is a shady liar.
He may fully believe you answered his phone, you beleive that he doesn't remember a girl he brought home, but remembers your actions a few hours later when he has screamed at you the exact opposite.
He is a shady liar.
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
Life would be a great time for me if I could afford to pay a sitter, shut out my A ex who, after depleting my finances for years is now my only source of income.
It would also be great if I could demand supervised visits. Not possible. Once again. My son has an inoperable tumor. If I go through the child support system in my state I will lose the insurance coverage I have secured for him. My income would exceed the limits, and I will not have anything. I would be responsible for MRIs and CAT scans every two months indefinitely, not to mention the hospital fees to just LOOK at a neurosurgeon.
I have to play along for now until I get back on my feet. I know you are all trying to be helpful, but, I also find it hard to believe that many of you with children have not had the children around a sober alcoholic at any time.
I have to keep the job I have and am doing what I can to become independent.
It would also be great if I could demand supervised visits. Not possible. Once again. My son has an inoperable tumor. If I go through the child support system in my state I will lose the insurance coverage I have secured for him. My income would exceed the limits, and I will not have anything. I would be responsible for MRIs and CAT scans every two months indefinitely, not to mention the hospital fees to just LOOK at a neurosurgeon.
I have to play along for now until I get back on my feet. I know you are all trying to be helpful, but, I also find it hard to believe that many of you with children have not had the children around a sober alcoholic at any time.
I have to keep the job I have and am doing what I can to become independent.
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
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Hey BG, I'm so sorry about your son, I'm not trying to heap a load of blame on you, I know it is difficult and I am VERY lucky that I live in the UK with a welfare state that means my children get the available medical care whether or not I have insurance or a job or a reasonable ex or whatever.
Like I said, I have made mistakes: I have left my son with his father whilst I went to the gym for an hour in the morning, only to come home and find him passed out on the floor, I had believed him when he said he hadn't had a drink, when he promised he wouldn't drink whilst I was out ("what do you take me for???"). I have rung from work at midday whilst he looked after our child who was sick, to hear the slightest thickening of his voice, fled home to find that he had locked our son in the house (aged 3, poorly, and roaming around on his own) whilst he went off to get more alcohol.
I believed I was trapped, that I had no alternative but to let him look after our child occassionally if I was to keep my job and our heads above water (my family lives a minimum of 4 hours away, my dad spends half of his life in the states), I drove myself half sick with the worry of leaving our son with him, and self-loathing from the guilt.
Now that I have made the decision never to rely on him, I have found alternatives. It takes creative thinking tailored to your own situation, I can't begin to pretend I understand the situation you are specifically in, with your son's medical situation, your child support system, your insurance and financial situation, which is why I'm not offering suggestions. I had to have help finding mine, but from people who knew the available alternatives in my country.
What I got from this board was help to see that I had options (I didn't like the range of choices I could pick from, but they were there), I *just* had to change my thinking in order to see them (which was hard). And I had to stop focussing on things that didn't matter, when there were real problems right in front of me that needed sorting out.
((hugs))
Like I said, I have made mistakes: I have left my son with his father whilst I went to the gym for an hour in the morning, only to come home and find him passed out on the floor, I had believed him when he said he hadn't had a drink, when he promised he wouldn't drink whilst I was out ("what do you take me for???"). I have rung from work at midday whilst he looked after our child who was sick, to hear the slightest thickening of his voice, fled home to find that he had locked our son in the house (aged 3, poorly, and roaming around on his own) whilst he went off to get more alcohol.
I believed I was trapped, that I had no alternative but to let him look after our child occassionally if I was to keep my job and our heads above water (my family lives a minimum of 4 hours away, my dad spends half of his life in the states), I drove myself half sick with the worry of leaving our son with him, and self-loathing from the guilt.
Now that I have made the decision never to rely on him, I have found alternatives. It takes creative thinking tailored to your own situation, I can't begin to pretend I understand the situation you are specifically in, with your son's medical situation, your child support system, your insurance and financial situation, which is why I'm not offering suggestions. I had to have help finding mine, but from people who knew the available alternatives in my country.
What I got from this board was help to see that I had options (I didn't like the range of choices I could pick from, but they were there), I *just* had to change my thinking in order to see them (which was hard). And I had to stop focussing on things that didn't matter, when there were real problems right in front of me that needed sorting out.
((hugs))
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
Buffalo66,
My feeling is that even thought your ex is not consuming alcohol when he has your child doesn’t mean his brain, thoughts and rational are not still affected by alcohol.
I do know how hard it is to have children and no REAL help while trying to work and re-build a life.
Is there anyway you might work out a plan with a friend that doesn’t involved money. Say she watches your child one day a week and you watch hers one day or on a weekend?
Are there any single parent support groups in your area that may offer barter type services that doesn’t involve money?
I know a friend of mine had an older woman watch her child after school for an hour each day until she got home and to re-pay her my friend did grocery shopping and other errands on Saturdays for the woman, because she didn’t drive and had difficulty carrying grocery bags and getting around.
Just an idea…..
My feeling is that even thought your ex is not consuming alcohol when he has your child doesn’t mean his brain, thoughts and rational are not still affected by alcohol.
I do know how hard it is to have children and no REAL help while trying to work and re-build a life.
Is there anyway you might work out a plan with a friend that doesn’t involved money. Say she watches your child one day a week and you watch hers one day or on a weekend?
Are there any single parent support groups in your area that may offer barter type services that doesn’t involve money?
I know a friend of mine had an older woman watch her child after school for an hour each day until she got home and to re-pay her my friend did grocery shopping and other errands on Saturdays for the woman, because she didn’t drive and had difficulty carrying grocery bags and getting around.
Just an idea…..
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