Very sad
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
It is more than fair, and be prepared for him to still do nothing about finding another place and then use "homeless" as an excuse to remain. He knows your weakness, he counts on it, otherwise he would not have been so conspicuous.
As TJP said above, we are not their only option. We are not even a good option. He knows where help is and he can choose to go to detox, a sober living house, rehab again (yes, it is often allowed) or to his own place and start attending meetings and working a program of recovery.
Or he can choose homeless. Again, he has choices, and you are no longer an option.
What helps me stop worrying about my son (who has been missing for over 5 years) is to give his care to God each morning in a prayer, and then live my day well, as life was intended to be lived.
Hugs
As TJP said above, we are not their only option. We are not even a good option. He knows where help is and he can choose to go to detox, a sober living house, rehab again (yes, it is often allowed) or to his own place and start attending meetings and working a program of recovery.
Or he can choose homeless. Again, he has choices, and you are no longer an option.
What helps me stop worrying about my son (who has been missing for over 5 years) is to give his care to God each morning in a prayer, and then live my day well, as life was intended to be lived.
Hugs
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Eastern Time Zone
Posts: 1,011
My suggestion here is to get in contact with the counselor at rehab you talked to earlier and see if he/she has any ideas that you can pass on to your brother.
You see, my dear, you are missing the opportunity this is. This is a crisis, and you can take advantage of this opportunity to influence your brother back into rehab, into a sober house, into something that spells recovery. That's why we suggest (and even insist) that you need Alanon - Alanon is where you can settle down emotionally so that you can see the opportunities before you and not the hopelessness.
Consider this. That apartment has all kind of temptations that trick him into using. The angles of the ceiling when he's lying on his bed after drinking his beloved beer, the look of the furniture, the color of the walls, absolutely everything. This is all partnered in his brain to being high. I think it is very sad that the counselor would suggest going back to his "drinking den" after rehab. We would all agree that he has to stay away from his drinking friends and stay away from places where he would drink, but we also have to include where they lived when this was going on.
My son has also been asked to leave my home and is shacking up with another addict. What i wouldn't give for him to be in a crisis. I have a lot of fear that my son will just jump from enabler to enabler all his life and never find a crisis and therefore never find recovery.
Anyway, enough of me and back to you. May i also suggest that you do whatever is in your power to keep that brother of yours from moving into your parent's home.
You see, my dear, you are missing the opportunity this is. This is a crisis, and you can take advantage of this opportunity to influence your brother back into rehab, into a sober house, into something that spells recovery. That's why we suggest (and even insist) that you need Alanon - Alanon is where you can settle down emotionally so that you can see the opportunities before you and not the hopelessness.
Consider this. That apartment has all kind of temptations that trick him into using. The angles of the ceiling when he's lying on his bed after drinking his beloved beer, the look of the furniture, the color of the walls, absolutely everything. This is all partnered in his brain to being high. I think it is very sad that the counselor would suggest going back to his "drinking den" after rehab. We would all agree that he has to stay away from his drinking friends and stay away from places where he would drink, but we also have to include where they lived when this was going on.
My son has also been asked to leave my home and is shacking up with another addict. What i wouldn't give for him to be in a crisis. I have a lot of fear that my son will just jump from enabler to enabler all his life and never find a crisis and therefore never find recovery.
Anyway, enough of me and back to you. May i also suggest that you do whatever is in your power to keep that brother of yours from moving into your parent's home.
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
Lots of good stuff in this thread.
vtsister: You can't reason with nor "figure out why" an alcoholic. It's useless to try.
A 48 year old man has no business acting like he is, tossing things in the yard, poor woe is meing you in email. Maybe he needs diapers? However, this is "normal" behavior for an active alcoholic.
Stick to your guns
vtsister: You can't reason with nor "figure out why" an alcoholic. It's useless to try.
A 48 year old man has no business acting like he is, tossing things in the yard, poor woe is meing you in email. Maybe he needs diapers? However, this is "normal" behavior for an active alcoholic.
Stick to your guns
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 86
Another difficulty is that my brother won't talk with me directly. He'll e-mail, or call another sister to "pass along a message".
I just heard from my sister that my brother finds it very awful that he was given "only two weeks to move out", and that he "needs until the end of January" to find another place.
From past experience, I know that long amounts of time mean he just stays, so I guess that's my answer right there, even though I just picked the two weeks out of thin air as to when he needed to leave, and am not sure if that's even realistic.
He hasn't saved a dime, and his credit rating is about as low as you can get, so I don't think he'll be able to rent an apartment somewhere. He's burned all his bridges with our family because he's lived with every one of us at least once, and he always ends up being made to leave.
I guess worrying about how he's going to get a place shouldn't be my worry though, right? He should have thought of this before.
I also have to say, he's being very childish. I baked cookies yesterday and put a small bag of them in his entry way. This morning when I opened my door, I found he had tossed the bag of cookies back up on our deck.
Thank you to everyone who is replying on this thread. My sister is also reading it, and it's helping us. I may even need to print it out for my mother to read. She's a very easy mark for my brother's manipulations too.
I just heard from my sister that my brother finds it very awful that he was given "only two weeks to move out", and that he "needs until the end of January" to find another place.
From past experience, I know that long amounts of time mean he just stays, so I guess that's my answer right there, even though I just picked the two weeks out of thin air as to when he needed to leave, and am not sure if that's even realistic.
He hasn't saved a dime, and his credit rating is about as low as you can get, so I don't think he'll be able to rent an apartment somewhere. He's burned all his bridges with our family because he's lived with every one of us at least once, and he always ends up being made to leave.
I guess worrying about how he's going to get a place shouldn't be my worry though, right? He should have thought of this before.
I also have to say, he's being very childish. I baked cookies yesterday and put a small bag of them in his entry way. This morning when I opened my door, I found he had tossed the bag of cookies back up on our deck.
Thank you to everyone who is replying on this thread. My sister is also reading it, and it's helping us. I may even need to print it out for my mother to read. She's a very easy mark for my brother's manipulations too.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Eastern Time Zone
Posts: 1,011
What i sense you're missing here is that your brother's life is at risk, that you're not taking that part of it seriously. You're all muddled up in the content of his e-mails, whether he ate your cookies or not. In reality, this man is 48 years old and in the not-too-distant future the alcohol will start to physically ruin him in the form of brain atrophy, esophageal ulcers or bleeding that could lead to death, neurologic disorders that could cause him to fall and cause permanent damage, etc. If he had a stroke that caused his thinking to be distorted, would you be on here upset about your cookies being rejected? Or would you be on the phone with his doctor to get him some medical help? Do you see the difference in your response to this? Go to Alanon, that's how you begin to learn how to help your brother. How did he get into rehab? Were you involved in that? Talk to that counselor and get some ideas on how to get your brother somewhere else. Get serious about the gravity of your brother's medical condition and stop focusing on who else in the family he is whining to.
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
Originally Posted by sojourner 
What i sense you're missing here is that your brother's life is at risk, that you're not taking that part of it seriously. You're all muddled up in the content of his e-mails, whether he ate your cookies or not. In reality, this man is 48 years old and in the not-too-distant future the alcohol will start to physically ruin him in the form of brain atrophy, esophageal ulcers or bleeding that could lead to death, neurologic disorders that could cause him to fall and cause permanent damage, etc. If he had a stroke that caused his thinking to be distorted, would you be on here upset about your cookies being rejected? Or would you be on the phone with his doctor to get him some medical help? Do you see the difference in your response to this? Go to Alanon, that's how you begin to learn how to help your brother. How did he get into rehab? Were you involved in that? Talk to that counselor and get some ideas on how to get your brother somewhere else. Get serious about the gravity of your brother's medical condition and stop focusing on who else in the family he is whining to.
He needs to get serious about his problems.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 86
Originally Posted by sojourner
Vtsister: I see you've been a member since march 2008, that's 1-1/2 years of reading experience, strength, hope on these boards.
Originally Posted by sojourner
What i sense you're missing here is that your brother's life is at risk, that you're not taking that part of it seriously. You're all muddled up in the content of his e-mails, whether he ate your cookies or not. In reality, this man is 48 years old and in the not-too-distant future the alcohol will start to physically ruin him in the form of brain atrophy, esophageal ulcers or bleeding that could lead to death, neurologic disorders that could cause him to fall and cause permanent damage, etc. If he had a stroke that caused his thinking to be distorted, would you be on here upset about your cookies being rejected? Or would you be on the phone with his doctor to get him some medical help? Do you see the difference in your response to this? Go to Alanon, that's how you begin to learn how to help your brother. How did he get into rehab? Were you involved in that? Talk to that counselor and get some ideas on how to get your brother somewhere else. Get serious about the gravity of your brother's medical condition and stop focusing on who else in the family he is whining to.
Believe me, I am very well aware of the destruction this is causing him, and using a stroke as an example connected with the cookies doesn't have anything to do with this situation.
Al Anon is fine, but discovering those beer cans yesterday threw us into an urgent situation that seemed, to me, to need some immediate responses from people who have been there, done that.
Our whole family realizes the "gravity of his condition", and we're trying the best we can to continue to support my brother, while at the same time not allowing his addictions to further harm our own lives. Isn't that what the recovery programs teach?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 86
Originally Posted by Still Waters
Her brother is an adult, and in no way shape or form is she responsible for his health or well being. He's been shown or given the information he needs to do what he needs to do. There is a Salvation Army close by I feel sure, he needs to take his immature whiny self right on down there and stop blaming his family for his shortcomings and trying to manipulate them into caretaking him.
He needs to get serious about his problems.
He needs to get serious about his problems.
My brother has decided that it's "not a good thing" to talk to me right now, so he's going through my sister as the middleman. That drove me nuts, so I called him myself earlier this morning. We didn't get very far. He's blaming me for all of this, telling me how impossible it is for him to move out in two weeks, trying to make me feel guilty by mentioning that he might need to move to a homeless shelter.
I was considering giving him a few more weeks to move out, but after that conversation--his attitude was terrible--I'm not going to because I couldn't handle having him here for any longer when he's acting like this. He told me that he didn't want me to talk to him at all when I see him now.
His latest angle is to keep asking us if we "think this is easy for him". We're not sure what this has to do with anything...
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
Is there a Salvation Army nearby? Point him towards it. I know it's easy for me to say, but one minute more listening to quacking nonsense is one more minute wasted of my life.
The SA won't let him have "empties" laying around either, I guarantee. And they won't second guess what a box of "empties" might mean.
Sigh - I'm having my own issues today with an insane A so if I sound harsh I do apologize.
The SA won't let him have "empties" laying around either, I guarantee. And they won't second guess what a box of "empties" might mean.
Sigh - I'm having my own issues today with an insane A so if I sound harsh I do apologize.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 86
Originally Posted by Still Waters
Is there a Salvation Army nearby? Point him towards it. I know it's easy for me to say, but one minute more listening to quacking nonsense is one more minute wasted of my life.
The SA won't let him have "empties" laying around either, I guarantee. And they won't second guess what a box of "empties" might mean.
Sigh - I'm having my own issues today with an insane A so if I sound harsh I do apologize.
The SA won't let him have "empties" laying around either, I guarantee. And they won't second guess what a box of "empties" might mean.
Sigh - I'm having my own issues today with an insane A so if I sound harsh I do apologize.
Yes, there's a Salvation Army not too far from us, as well as a couple other homeless shelters. It breaks my heart thinking about him ending up in a shelter, but I have to keep in mind that this wasn't anything I caused.
Another thing that's very sad is that he's now planning to go "far away", which means that he'll be abandoning his four year old son. (The little boy lives with his mother most of the week.)
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
He's not planning anything except to garner more sympathy for poor him. Having or being forced to abandon his child sure does tug at the old heart strings doesn't it?
If he didn't have a child, he'd find something else to attempt to control you with.
If he didn't have a child, he'd find something else to attempt to control you with.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Sunny South
Posts: 1,666
vsister....
(((hugs))) to you!!!
I am the alcoholic in my family. I am here to tell you, that by enforcing your boundary and not enabling him, you are helping him, not hurting him.
He has options, and is an adult, therefore, his decision to use and evict himself, is his.
He can't talk to you, because deep down., he is ashamed and afraid. You have called him out on his disease. Its good that he is paying his bills, but, people should always pay their bills, addict or not. He/we don't deserve a medal because we are doing the right things in life. He left those cans out, because he didn't think he would get caught,and if he did, didn't think you would enforce your boundary...plain and simple.
I can feel your pain, in your post...but, please know, if he is ever going to work his program and live sober, he HAS to know the consequences to his actions, his choices. He can go live with your parents, and if he does, that is between them and him.
Peace
(((hugs))) to you!!!
I am the alcoholic in my family. I am here to tell you, that by enforcing your boundary and not enabling him, you are helping him, not hurting him.
He has options, and is an adult, therefore, his decision to use and evict himself, is his.
He can't talk to you, because deep down., he is ashamed and afraid. You have called him out on his disease. Its good that he is paying his bills, but, people should always pay their bills, addict or not. He/we don't deserve a medal because we are doing the right things in life. He left those cans out, because he didn't think he would get caught,and if he did, didn't think you would enforce your boundary...plain and simple.
I can feel your pain, in your post...but, please know, if he is ever going to work his program and live sober, he HAS to know the consequences to his actions, his choices. He can go live with your parents, and if he does, that is between them and him.
Peace
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
from Sojourner: If he had a stroke that caused his thinking to be distorted, would you be on here upset about your cookies being rejected?
But, alcoholism is NOT like a stroke. Nor is it like any other disease. It is addiction, and the very "help" we would offer to the stroke victim that may save his life? That help can kill an alcoholic. I found this out by educating myself about the facts of addiction, and by talking to many, many recovered alcoholics including my own father.
When I read your post I thought of it in the context of my struggles with my brothers. I am not cruel to my A brothers - not by a long shot - I am extremely compassionate - in fact they have taught me the true meaning of compassion. And it is not ME that is denying them help!! They choose to live as they see fit and they have EVERY RIGHT to live their lives the way they choose.
And I have every right to protect myself & my children from their dangerous poor choices. I would never deny them medical help, I have done anything I can do that will help them that they cannot do for themselves. And that's all she wrote.
peace & stay strong VTsister-
b
But, alcoholism is NOT like a stroke. Nor is it like any other disease. It is addiction, and the very "help" we would offer to the stroke victim that may save his life? That help can kill an alcoholic. I found this out by educating myself about the facts of addiction, and by talking to many, many recovered alcoholics including my own father.
When I read your post I thought of it in the context of my struggles with my brothers. I am not cruel to my A brothers - not by a long shot - I am extremely compassionate - in fact they have taught me the true meaning of compassion. And it is not ME that is denying them help!! They choose to live as they see fit and they have EVERY RIGHT to live their lives the way they choose.
And I have every right to protect myself & my children from their dangerous poor choices. I would never deny them medical help, I have done anything I can do that will help them that they cannot do for themselves. And that's all she wrote.
peace & stay strong VTsister-
b
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Omak WA
Posts: 1,049
Broken Boundaries....
Hi Everyone, 
I am an Alcoholic in Recovery for 21 years now & am a wife, mother, & sister.
I had to ask our son to leave our home due to his drinking in the basement bedroom when his job brought him back to our area.
I had to evict my brother & his drug buddies from our family home when I finally found out what was going on. He was renting out the bedrooms to other addicts...I hadn't heard from him in three years...I live across the State from him. I wrote to him but he never wrote or called. What a mess I had to deal with...I hired a contractor to help clean out the mess & did a yard sale. It took a week to get it all done. I also sold the house the same week!
He did have one sober friend left who took him in and helped him get clean & sober. He ended up with a heart attack before he got off the alcohol he was using for the withdrawal from methametaphine.
He has had one relapse....a short one...in the past year. He is going to a doc & has medication for the first time in many years. Talking about ages...my son tried suicide & is a quadrapligic...he is 40 years old now...had his wreck in 2001 in October.
I was 48 when I sobered up the last time and am 69 now. My brother will be 68 this month....age is not part of the formula to make one an alcoholic in our family.
It is a terrible disease for non-alcoholics to deal with. A lot of people go to Alanon which is the 12 Step Program for family members or friends of an alcoholic. It helps with the guilt and sorrow they are going through.
He just called me....we seem to connect that way somehow....it is so good to be able to talk with him.
kelsh
I am an Alcoholic in Recovery for 21 years now & am a wife, mother, & sister.
I had to ask our son to leave our home due to his drinking in the basement bedroom when his job brought him back to our area.
I had to evict my brother & his drug buddies from our family home when I finally found out what was going on. He was renting out the bedrooms to other addicts...I hadn't heard from him in three years...I live across the State from him. I wrote to him but he never wrote or called. What a mess I had to deal with...I hired a contractor to help clean out the mess & did a yard sale. It took a week to get it all done. I also sold the house the same week!
He did have one sober friend left who took him in and helped him get clean & sober. He ended up with a heart attack before he got off the alcohol he was using for the withdrawal from methametaphine.
He has had one relapse....a short one...in the past year. He is going to a doc & has medication for the first time in many years. Talking about ages...my son tried suicide & is a quadrapligic...he is 40 years old now...had his wreck in 2001 in October.
I was 48 when I sobered up the last time and am 69 now. My brother will be 68 this month....age is not part of the formula to make one an alcoholic in our family.
It is a terrible disease for non-alcoholics to deal with. A lot of people go to Alanon which is the 12 Step Program for family members or friends of an alcoholic. It helps with the guilt and sorrow they are going through.
He just called me....we seem to connect that way somehow....it is so good to be able to talk with him.
kelsh
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 86
Thank you very much for the encouragement and support. Last night and today have been extremely draining emotionally. I feel like I've been through a wringer, and I know my sister does too.
My brother just came home for a few minutes, spent some time banging things around downstairs, yelled and swore at somebody on the phone, then left again. My husband and I can both feel the tension in the air when he's here, and he's not even up here with us. He's downstairs in his own little apartment.
Very stressful, and not a good time to get the family disrupted with the holidays so close.
My brother just came home for a few minutes, spent some time banging things around downstairs, yelled and swore at somebody on the phone, then left again. My husband and I can both feel the tension in the air when he's here, and he's not even up here with us. He's downstairs in his own little apartment.
Very stressful, and not a good time to get the family disrupted with the holidays so close.
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
I don't know if that stupid immature banging around behavior is a ploy to get attention, or if they simply don't know how to act beyond the age of a five year old.
I'd just watch/listen to my AH with my jaw hanging open. Incredible.
I'd just watch/listen to my AH with my jaw hanging open. Incredible.
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Eastern Time Zone
Posts: 1,011
Re the stroke analogy - i'm not suggesting that we do the kind of "help" that is actually enabling. What i am suggesting is that we take addiction seriously in that it is life and death. I am suggesting that when we are focused on what the addict says and does (as in, "can you believe he said that, did that, lied about that, etc.) happens because we do not realize how serious this is. We think we have time.
This brother's family is setting boundaries which is causing a crisis for the brother. That's a good thing. I'm suggesting that the energy brought about by this crisis be used to influence that brother back into treatment rather than use that energy to worry about whether he is accepting cookies or any other form of temper tantrum.
I've seen too many alcoholics start having major medical problems at the age of this brother. and i mean major, lifelong, never going to go away problems. This is serious, life-and-death stuff. We are not flippant when we see a family member show signs of a stroke because we know where an untreated stroke can lead. I realize you cannot make a person accept treatment, but this brother has already accepted treatment and is not that far removed from having received that treatment. It's possible he may be amenable to treatment again if the family can rally around and use their influence toward that end. Again, in the end the brother may flatly refuse and then he'd be on the streets which is what he would be choosing to do.
This brother's family is setting boundaries which is causing a crisis for the brother. That's a good thing. I'm suggesting that the energy brought about by this crisis be used to influence that brother back into treatment rather than use that energy to worry about whether he is accepting cookies or any other form of temper tantrum.
I've seen too many alcoholics start having major medical problems at the age of this brother. and i mean major, lifelong, never going to go away problems. This is serious, life-and-death stuff. We are not flippant when we see a family member show signs of a stroke because we know where an untreated stroke can lead. I realize you cannot make a person accept treatment, but this brother has already accepted treatment and is not that far removed from having received that treatment. It's possible he may be amenable to treatment again if the family can rally around and use their influence toward that end. Again, in the end the brother may flatly refuse and then he'd be on the streets which is what he would be choosing to do.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 86
Sojourner, the physical aspects may already be starting to bother my brother. My mother mentioned to me one day recently that he's been having terrible heartburn, and my sister mentioned awhile before that that one day, when she was hugging him, his chest sounded awful. (He's a heavy cigarette smoker too.)
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Location: Northen Europe and France
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This is very difficult situation.
I know it myself. After I sobered up I had to deal with my brotherīs drug abuse and immature behaviour. I was married at the time and my brother stayed with us with his dope and drink, seriously driving us nuts.
I remember the abuse and temper tantrums. I knew as a recovering dope addict what he was going through and I understood his denial. I knew it was impossible to trust him and I also knew he had to seek help and find it within himself as I had. We finally got him a place through the council and changed our locks. I also told him if I found dope near my house I would call the cops. Then I left him on his own, and it broke my heart, but I had exhausted all other possibilties.
This is one of the most difficult things we face, how to deal with loved ones who are addicts.
Let me add that two years later my brother sought help. He is now a very successful person with a family of his own and Iīm so proud of him.
I really hope your brother faces his demons and gets help.
Love and light,
I know it myself. After I sobered up I had to deal with my brotherīs drug abuse and immature behaviour. I was married at the time and my brother stayed with us with his dope and drink, seriously driving us nuts.
I remember the abuse and temper tantrums. I knew as a recovering dope addict what he was going through and I understood his denial. I knew it was impossible to trust him and I also knew he had to seek help and find it within himself as I had. We finally got him a place through the council and changed our locks. I also told him if I found dope near my house I would call the cops. Then I left him on his own, and it broke my heart, but I had exhausted all other possibilties.
This is one of the most difficult things we face, how to deal with loved ones who are addicts.
Let me add that two years later my brother sought help. He is now a very successful person with a family of his own and Iīm so proud of him.
I really hope your brother faces his demons and gets help.
Love and light,
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