honoryourself

After all the insanity of the past month or so.. AH being the biggest jerk ever, then deciding to try hard and being the sweetest ever, until I mentioned something he didn't like and then going back to worst ever....

I find myself coming more and more to terms with the fact that this is my marriage. I am not getting any younger, and I have things I want in my life--a family, children, financial stability, the ability to travel, not stress over every single thing in the world, not to have to worry about how my H will react to everything that ever happens and have to answer a barrage of questions every time I'm away from him, I'm tired of the passive aggressive manipulation, the sarcasm, the yelling, the insults, all of this. I've seen him becoming more and more selfish, I see his 'kind acts' may be more of a means to and end to get what he wants from me back.
I am looking down the road and seeing it full of trouble, pain, tears, no support or honest love. There are lies, they come out so easily from him. I almost WANT to catch the lies so I can breathe a sigh of relief saying, this is it, he has broken the trust, and now I can calmly walk away.


But it's very hard. My parents visited, I've talked to my friends. My parents helped me with stuff around the house that AH kept putting off. He swears they'd get done but when? When it's so overdue it costs ten times more to do it or fix it? When more things go wrong? There's always an excuse.. And I'm so stressed from trying to keep all those balls in the air! He doesn't see it and considers me a complainer, etc. Maybe we just aren't compatible.. he wants someone more laid back or sloppy, or someone who just quietly takes care of everything and never asks him to do anything and follow through on it. I don't know, I just know that's not me!

Everyone who knows me well says I deserve more, I have been putting everything into this and getting nothing out, I've focused my life all around him and his needs and not been able to get someone who works with me on anything.

On top of this is the drinking and smoking. I made the mistake of believing a smoker that he would quit and that he wanted to quit. He's quit before, when we first married for 8 months.. but then went back to it and tried quitting twice since then. But he puts it on me now, saying he's quitting for me and then blaming me for arguments and saying it's not his fault when he picks it up again. It's worse than ever, probably 2 packs a day and costing us an absolute fortune. In the meantime we can't afford to go to a nice dinner or on a vacation or buy clothes or anything, after affording his cigarettes and alcohol. These are givens for him, he won't negotiate, and he doesn't consider them his personal expenses but rather a part of our joint 'bills'. i was the only one making money while he tried to start a business, and yet he wouldn't cut back on any of his addictions, or make concessions or anything, and it was all coming out of my money, and we went further and further into debt and borrowed money, and yet these things were still givens. It just wasn't fair. I am and was so stressed over this.


After all this, stepping back, talking to people, I'm seeing that I made a mistake. I married a man who I thought had the same values and ethics and dreams as I did. I found out he dreams a lot but his follow through and sacrifice is not where mine is. I'm very very sad about things. I'm seeing no matter what it is I ask for, I get in trouble for wanting it, like he teaches me a lesson for asking for something.

I think I'm ready to admit divorce is probably my only option.. but I"m still scared. I'd say I'm at 95% certainty and resolve.

It finally came out this morning, I said those words to him. He responded in a typical way, yelling about how I just had so much resentment and just needed to let it go, etc etc. And last night, I went to Al Anon, cried and told the group where I was at and what I was planning on doing, and to my surprise one woman was very upset with me, told me I needed to wait, hang in there, and that things worked for her. I have only been going for maybe 2 months. She said I needed to give it at least 6, work the program, then make major decisions. She said she'd pray for me. That things worked with her husband, she waited twenty two years, and finally this year he is in recovery. I don't have 22 years to wait, I want a family, a life, respect, self respect. I want to be loved and supported too! Is it bad to want these things?

I went away questioning myself. I'm scared because this IS all happening so fast. Am I being to quick to decide? Do I need to continue to work the program? Is it possible that ALL of his negative behaviors that I don't feel are OK for me could change, and I'm not giving them a chance?

Today I'm questioning this--if he agrees to a certain program and certain basic needs of mine in the short term, to go to counseling on a regular basis, to leave the insults, to financially contribute and do so fairly and work up a budget to stick to. Should I give it this one more shot? I'm not hopefully it will work... but part of me says maybe I need this or I will always be questioning whether or not I gave it my best chances. I don't see a glimmer of hope for him changing, but maybe since I've started stepping back I haven't given it all I could? Am I being selfish? Am I expecting too much? I have a lot of self doubt. I feel more resolved, but does it make sense to try to give it one more go, for my OWN peace of mind, that I did what I could for this marriage and to know that it's ok to let it go...

Thoughts???

LaTeeDa

You said it in the first paragraph. It's YOUR life. The only one you get. Therefore, you get to decide what to do with it. People will share with you what worked for THEM. (Although, I think being upset with you is going a bit too far.) You get to decide what works for you. By putting conditions on what HE must do, you are giving him your power. If you want to go ahead with divorce, then do it. If you want to wait, then wait. But don't make your choices based on what HE does. Make your choices based on what is right for YOU.

L

honoryourself

Thanks LTD, I feel in my heart this is probably the right thing to do. But I also have concerns about feeling like I may not have given it a good enough go. That everything went from one world to the next in a matter of a couple of months, and then there I am gone. I mean the blinders are off, that's why...

You said that by giving him conditions I'm giving him power. Is this not setting boundaries? If I say, I am ok to give this one more shot but these are things I cannot do without, is that controlling him or giving him power? I mean, if he does not give me those things that I need or require, then the 'one last shot' is pointless.

I get confused over controlling/boundaries at times. I see the boundaries are for me, there are things I need. I suppose I have voiced my desire to have these things before and he has decided against them, so maybe I am a broken record. I don't know. I guess I feel like I need to just lay my deal breakers out there on the line, one last time, and see what happens, for my own peace of mind. We'll see.

LaTeeDa

Boundaries are about you. Controlling is about him. You cannot have a "boundary" that requires him to do (or not do) something. Control is "you must do X." Boundaries are "I will not tolerate X." Then, it's up to you to "change the things you can." (Which doesn't include him, lol.)

L

Cowgirl1265

I had a long talk yesterday with the man who was our best man when my H and I got married. (It was hard to refrain from talking about my H's defects, but mostly I kept to me and my issues). My friend said that he was frankly surprised that we stayed together as long as we did. I thought about that and I said "Yes, I can see that."

For 9 years, the same things that I decided I could not longer live with were present in our marriage. Some things were not as bad in the beginning as they were in the end, but they were always there. For whatever reason, my codependency kept me blind to the truths of the relationship. I think the controlling behavior feeds the same centers in the brain that drugs and alcohol do...not sure, but I think, because I kept telling myself that I was happy when in fact I was miserable. In the end, I realized that he was not going to change, therefore I had to.

Honor, I was in the same boat where someone who did not really know me or my situation advised me to give the marriage "X" amount of time. But I think just like any other advice you receive, you take what works for YOU and leave the rest. As LTD said, people will share with you what worked for them in their own experience, but that doesn't necessarily mean it applies to you.

I'll echo LTD: You should do what is right for YOU regardless of what you H or anyone else says. If you feel that it is not time yet to make that decision, then by all means wait until you feel the time is right.

I can only tell you from my own experience that my life did not get better until I spoke up for myself and took steps to start my own healing process. The relationship with my H was so toxic and unhappy that the best way for me to do that was to do it without him in my home.

nodaybut2day

honoryourself...I want to speak to the "rushing" portion of your post.

I too have felt like I "rushed" into my separation. I found SR, I found Al-Anon and within a matter of weeks, I told my XH that I wanted to separate. It was like a big snowball, growing and rolling downhill somewhat out of my control. SR and Al-Anon gave me the words to label and justify my feelings. Once I had the words, I was off...

I felt a tremendous amount of guilt for doing things so quickly. I thought that I should give it another shot, and "be the bigger person", etc. But when I talked to my X about my issues with his drinking, I hit a wall. He was not willing to admit to anything. In his mind, *I* was the problem. I** just had to suck it up and deal.

It was then that I realized that I'd been mentally preparing to leave him for a long time. I just hadn't been honest with myself about my thoughts and plans. I started to remember all those times I imagined living on my own, with my baby girl, and how things would go for us. When I admitted this to myself, it became easier to accept that I was leaving my X "so soon".

I also struggled with "being the bad guy", the initiator, the one who can be blamed. I'd spent many years of my life trying to be blameless, trying to please everyone. Thanks to SR, I decided that I would accept whatever label people around me would give me, whether I was the bad guy who didn't give her poor husband a chance, or whether I was the smart chica who ran away before her hubby ate her soul whole.

If you're ready, you're ready.

whereisthisgoin

My counselor said, "Do what YOU want and need to do."

It's hard for me to figure out but I keep saying it to myself.

It's okay to solicit advice - you just need to think their words through and then decide for yourself.

As I type I realize I am posting in response to you but also for me. Life with an alcoholic is difficult.

FindingPeace1

noday- you rock!
I have to shed, like fallen leaves, the feelings:
- wives support their husbands
- I married for life -I promised
- he needs me
- I am walking away from my own dreams
- but I LOVE him
- it's not that bad
- he's depressed and having a hard time right now
- how could I be so cruel?
- what am I heartless?
- shouldn't I give him a chance?
- what if its not REALLY a problem?
- what if he really CAN quit like he says?
- what am I losing?
- If I walk out that door, I will probably never go back
- I may never have kids if I choose this
- I'm ashamed - I've only been married 2 years
- how do I tell everyone that knows both of us?
- I'm a failure
- it's not his fault - he's a depressed addict
- he hid it for me - because I don't like it
- what kind of support is that from me?
- he doesn't MEAN it
etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum. Hooks, they are. And NOT TRUE OR SO WHAT!
The Codie No More book says something I have written down to remember:
It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

Then i refocus on me - I do not find his self-abuse with alcohol and dishonesty acceptable for me. I don't want a partner doing those things. I decline.
That is perfectly healthy, an okay choice AT ANY TIME, and does not take away my "good person-ness".
I am taking steps to care for me because while I have a problem with those things, he finds those things okay.
To stay is the madness. Or, put another way, to stay is to GIVE UP your own boundaries. Wow. I don't want a relationship where I painfully GIVE UP myself as a sacrifice to keep the relationship going. I want to GIVE TO myself and my partner in joy.
I am okay to have the boundary I have. I am not a BIG JERK to have boundaries. I don't have to bully or judge him for having a different set. I just have to take care of myself and make sure my boundaries aren't crossed.

I am not yet out. I am separated. But I am getting there.
My AH is a love 99% of the time. Totally dependable and loving and responsible and helpful. Its alot to leave. But I still want to be honored with honesty and to have a partner that does not self abuse with alcohol. So I am working through MY feelings and needs.

Good luck with love!

tjp613

There are many reasons a person might stay with an alcoholic and those reasons are personal -- a decision only you can make for yourself. Just please remember that nothing has to be decided right now!! Take a few months and see what happens if you just practice taking the focus OFF of him and ON to yourself. STOP doing things for him that he can do for himself. Put some money aside for a 'rainy day'. Take weekend trips with girlfriends, join a class you've always wanted to take, learn how to crochet, sell stuff on Ebay....whatever floats your boat.

And while you're doing all of this for you, just keep asking yourself if he never changes is this life still ACCEPTABLE to you? Most likely he will not change as much as you'd like him to, and that's the only question that needs to be answered. IS IT ACCEPTABLE TO YOU? One way or the other you'll need to recover from this co-dependent stupor you are in -- so get to work on it and see how things unfold in the next few months. I think the answers will become more clear to you.

atalose

honoryourself,

I like that name!!!! keep reminding yourself of that!!!!!


I imagine that you began al-anon because you were overwhelmed with the situation with your husband, lost and desperate for help, like most of us who entered the rooms of al-anon.

I don’t agree with the advice you received from that woman in your group. I agree with Lateeda…..it’s YOUR life and you only get one, how much more time do you want to invest in someone who is unwilling to invest in themselves?

Are you finding yourself wanting to tell him……I will leave this marriage unless you stop drinking, quit smoking and begin following through on the things you say you will do?

BS08

Hey Honor

I think a lot of making a decision like this has to do with our own personal fear. Am I doing the right thing? Will I ever have a relationship again? Will I ever find Love again? etc... I think sometimes for people (including myself), it's easier to stay with what you know than what you don't know. But how good is what you know?

If your relationship is not bringing you happiness, joy, growth and acceptance, what is it bringing you? Self doubt, grief, despair, sadness, fighting, etc. That's what it sounds like this relationship is bringing you. Is this how you want to live your life? It's too damn short for that.

If he states he is going to do these things for you, great! You can watch it from the sidelines and see how it goes and if all the promises pan out. Then he will be worth the time and effort it takes for a relationship. But standing in the middle to tackling field doesn't keep you safe or bring you joy. Just continues with the pain until you're too broken to get up and they have to carry you off the field.

I've come to realize after a lot of pain that the people that are worth having in your life are the ones who think you are worth it, do the work,... and stay. I haven't had contact with my family in 15 years, and just within the last year reconnected. Even though it's been 15 years, they're still there. No questions , no explanation. They're just there for me with open arms and love. If you have to be careful about what you say and do to keep someone, it's not a honest true caring relationship based on trust, respect and love. He has to earn his place in your life, not you tolerating him in yours.

It's a privilege to be welcomed into someone's life. You earn your place by our sides, and only we can make the choices of the ones we feel are worthy to be there.

Is he worthy to be by your side?

honoryourself

Yes, I do find myself wanting to tell him that. And I also realize that the response I will probably get will go something like "this is who I am". Which I really need to listen to. I think a lot of me always HEARD things like that and inside I thought, "yeah.. for NOW". Or he said he would change or wanted to change, but the actions speak louder than words.

I find that my relationship has never been one where I've been encouraged to grow emotionally or expand my horizons, I've never really been treated with the respect I deserve, I've been put down time and time again when he is angry or feels attacked. I've admitted some very personal issues to him and he has thrown them in my face and flat out ridiculed me disgustingly during arguments for these very personal sensitive items. It hurts more than I have ever been hurt before. Over and over I say to myself, how can this person who is supposed to be my partner, my lover, my best friend, want to hurt me more than anyone else in the world. If anyone else int he world said those things to me I'd think he'd want to kill them and defend and protect me, yet he feels he has the right to put me down that low.

I guess all along I thought I had the right to nag or criticize that he's not getting things done, is poor with money, or makes lofty promises that never come into fruition and gets mad at me if I want to look at them more critically and plan for more prudent options. I feel stifled, uncared for, and like everything either of us does is being counted on a tally sheet.

I have not been able to afford to take a class I liked, go out with friends, buy myself a treat, take a vacation, go away at all. He has spent every single dime, then all my credit (I allowed this) on stuff, liquor, cigarettes, fast food, redbulls, whatever it is. And he feels no remorse, he considers them necessities I believe.

I lost my closeness with many friends and family members because I became so preoccupied with trying to make more and more money and somehow stop him from spending it all, but I kept getting talked into letting him buy one thing or another, getting a house, this furniture etc.. as if we NEEDED and DESERVED it. But at the same time I never took what I deserved.

Now I am hanging out with my friends, but I am spending money we STILL don't have in order to do that. I need it in order to maintain my sanity. Now he uses that as an excuse to do whatever he wants still. Now he is partying with friends he just made at a new job, drinking all night, taking cabs around which cost a fortune, doing whatever. When I tried to take care of myself, I got taught the lesson that whatever I take for myself, he takes 10 fold, and that's the way it is. When I took my money out of our joint account, he refused to put his in, for the first paycheck ever. When I didn't stay home while he verbally abused me, he decided to go out too and leave me with the responsibility of the dog. When we fought, it wasn't his fault for not keeping up any responsibilities.

I just don't know how to possibly manage this, on top of the passive aggressive behavior, sarcasm, manipulation, drinking. It's all so not okay for me. I know I deserve better, and I think he knows it too, but he doesn't want me to think I can get any better, so he picks on me and picks on me.

Anyway, sorry that's just the stuff I've been pulling out of me, stuffed down so deep in denial for so long. Sometimes my AH is a lot of fun, but most of the time he actively ruins my good time or opportunities to have a good time. I let him though, but I trusted him so fully that I gave him access to everything of mine, and didn't stop it when he did things with my money and trust that I shouldn't have put up with. So then I'm angry at myself too, and learning to start setting boundaries.

At the end of the day, I don't want to be married to a man who can lie so easily to my face, and someone who seems so convinced while lying that this is the right way to deal with things. I want my husband to take responsibility when he messes up, like I want to, so we can learn from our mistakes and move on. If it's always someone else's fault then we can never improve, right? Well thats why I feel like my future is bleak. There is no learning, no improvement, and the way things are and have been has not bee good for me, not healthy, and just really draining.

I get that I Need to take care of myself. But it's REALLY hard to do when you are so far in debt, have a house to take care of that your partner is not holding up their responsibilities for, when you cannot discuss or come to agreements on anything that you both need to be involved in, when my husband's paycheck is being cashed and spent on alcohol and cabs and I am now still paying all our bills.
If I stop paying his share of the bills, then I suffer too, with my credit.
I have gotten myself into this hole. I cannot figure a way out. I want peace and serenity, I've found my friends and family who care, but I cannot live like this for much longer.

Maybe I will give it just a little time and this last shot, maybe we will talk to a counselor and I'll see how that goes. I guess my doubts are telling me I'm not 100% ready. Yet my gut and experience is telling me, you did not marry the right man, you married someone you loved who you thought could be the right man for you, and sacrificed your needs all along in order to protect that image.

Man it stinks growing up! haha.. Thanks SO MUCH to everyone for your thoughts and experiences. I really really appreciate it. It gives me things to think about.

tjp613

If none of this changes, IS IT ACCEPTABLE TO YOU???

honoryourself

No, it's not acceptable.