Does being codependent make me abusive?
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Never saw abuse or DV til I was living across the street from a wife basher, (I called the police), and I was in my late 20's then. My parents seldom argued, and never yelled at each other, let alone physical abuse, and my XAH was a loving, non violent gentleman up to a couple of years before I left, when he changed to sneering and sarcasm.
I was on a camping holiday overseas with ABF, who hit the booze the second we landed in the country, was loaded all day, every day and becoming progressively more unpleasant each night. Two days before we were to fly home, I had been in the camp laundry and returned to our tent, walked in and from the sleeping part he launched himself at me, yelling, "where have you been you f***ing b*t*h, and who have you been f***ing?" He tripped over the entry way, and tried to grab me, and almost without thinking I grabbed a camp stool and clocked him on his bald head. Blood everywhere.
Spent 3 hours at emergency, and while he got stitches, I told staff I hit him and why I did so, but he told them he tripped and hit his head. He flew home with dressing on forehead, swollen nose and 2 gorgeous black eyes.
I felt awful at what I had done, but that feeling left me, after I heard his version of what had happened. It seems he figures I just came in swinging a camp chair at his head for NO reason at all.
Yes 5ft, 8 stone 63 year old woman with arthritis in hands, back and neck suddenly takes on 6ft1", 15 stone stroppy drunk, for fun or exercise maybe?
Gave up idea of trying to justify my actions as defence and survival in the face of sheer terror, and let it go. You can't argue with someone who doesn't remember, (or doesn't want to) very much of that holiday from hell, let alone that incident.
I am not angry at myself for hitting him, but feel angry for staying longer than the first day after he began drinking, when I could and should have packed my bag and gone off exploring on my own. Also annoyed at being forced to take that action because of his paranoid behavior in the first place.
He has caused a few stirs where I lived before and I have called police to take him away, but he sure hasn't raised a finger to me again.
God bless
I was on a camping holiday overseas with ABF, who hit the booze the second we landed in the country, was loaded all day, every day and becoming progressively more unpleasant each night. Two days before we were to fly home, I had been in the camp laundry and returned to our tent, walked in and from the sleeping part he launched himself at me, yelling, "where have you been you f***ing b*t*h, and who have you been f***ing?" He tripped over the entry way, and tried to grab me, and almost without thinking I grabbed a camp stool and clocked him on his bald head. Blood everywhere.
Spent 3 hours at emergency, and while he got stitches, I told staff I hit him and why I did so, but he told them he tripped and hit his head. He flew home with dressing on forehead, swollen nose and 2 gorgeous black eyes.
I felt awful at what I had done, but that feeling left me, after I heard his version of what had happened. It seems he figures I just came in swinging a camp chair at his head for NO reason at all.
Yes 5ft, 8 stone 63 year old woman with arthritis in hands, back and neck suddenly takes on 6ft1", 15 stone stroppy drunk, for fun or exercise maybe?
Gave up idea of trying to justify my actions as defence and survival in the face of sheer terror, and let it go. You can't argue with someone who doesn't remember, (or doesn't want to) very much of that holiday from hell, let alone that incident.
I am not angry at myself for hitting him, but feel angry for staying longer than the first day after he began drinking, when I could and should have packed my bag and gone off exploring on my own. Also annoyed at being forced to take that action because of his paranoid behavior in the first place.
He has caused a few stirs where I lived before and I have called police to take him away, but he sure hasn't raised a finger to me again.
God bless
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KV, I posted about this a few weeks ago. When I was reading a list of the hallmarks of abuse, I realized that I was as guilty as my husband of abusive behaviors. I yelled at him, I threw things, I slammed doors, I used food, sex, guilt to manipulate him, I spied on him.
It was not right of me to do these things to him in the insanity of my attempts to control his life. It was also not right for me to do these things FOR ME. The unhealthy behavior simply made an already out of control situation worse.
I don't think that my behavior was justified. We have a choice in any situation. If I didn't trust my husband enough to be faithful to me, I didn't have to punish him, I could have left the relationship. Some of the things he did were wrong and they were abusive to me, yes. But I could have responded much differently. I doubt the result would have been a better marriage - but the result would have been a ME who was much less sick and scary.
I look back on my physical and emotional state when I acted this way and I can recognize some physical patterns that I am now trying to learn to respond to in healthier ways. When I find myself obsessing on a thought (like, "he said xyz and it makes me mad and I want to tell him off because he should'nt say things like that") the next thing that happens is my heart rate goes up, the thought starts repeating in my head and I feel like I have to do SOMETHING ABOUT IT RIGHT NOW OR I WILL EXPLODE. I am trying to learn to grab the progression before it escalates to that point, and to self talk myself down from the escalation. I'm learning there is a difference between HAVING a feeling and ACTING on a feeling. If I act on those ugly feelings, chances are I will do something out of control and likely abusive. Even though my husband and I aren't living together, it would be wrong of me to call him up and yell at him or try to manipulate him into an argument over something. And it would be abusive of me to exhibit this kind of angry behavior in front of my kids. So, I try to breathe, to pray, and to talk to myself with some of the wisdom I've learned here and in some of the codependency books. Sometimes I slip up, but for the most part its working.
It was not right of me to do these things to him in the insanity of my attempts to control his life. It was also not right for me to do these things FOR ME. The unhealthy behavior simply made an already out of control situation worse.
I don't think that my behavior was justified. We have a choice in any situation. If I didn't trust my husband enough to be faithful to me, I didn't have to punish him, I could have left the relationship. Some of the things he did were wrong and they were abusive to me, yes. But I could have responded much differently. I doubt the result would have been a better marriage - but the result would have been a ME who was much less sick and scary.
I look back on my physical and emotional state when I acted this way and I can recognize some physical patterns that I am now trying to learn to respond to in healthier ways. When I find myself obsessing on a thought (like, "he said xyz and it makes me mad and I want to tell him off because he should'nt say things like that") the next thing that happens is my heart rate goes up, the thought starts repeating in my head and I feel like I have to do SOMETHING ABOUT IT RIGHT NOW OR I WILL EXPLODE. I am trying to learn to grab the progression before it escalates to that point, and to self talk myself down from the escalation. I'm learning there is a difference between HAVING a feeling and ACTING on a feeling. If I act on those ugly feelings, chances are I will do something out of control and likely abusive. Even though my husband and I aren't living together, it would be wrong of me to call him up and yell at him or try to manipulate him into an argument over something. And it would be abusive of me to exhibit this kind of angry behavior in front of my kids. So, I try to breathe, to pray, and to talk to myself with some of the wisdom I've learned here and in some of the codependency books. Sometimes I slip up, but for the most part its working.
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Originally Posted by Cowgirl1265 
Some of the things he did were wrong and they were abusive to me, yes. But I could have responded much differently. I doubt the result would have been a better marriage - but the result would have been a ME who was much less sick and scary.
L
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I think abuse is in the eye of the receiver.
To understand if a behavior is abusive or not one need only look for the reaction of the person on the receiving end.
What seemed to start as sarcasm and teasing banter when XABF was drinking seemed to take on a sinister tone. The hair on the back of my neck would stand up. I'd feel a fight or flight response come over me. I couldn't keep from taking his teasing to heart and when he would finally elicit tears from me, he would say I should lighten up which would anger me. His snarky comments would always send my to the other end of the house. He started to look like Jack Nicholson in The Shining to me.
When I would be angry over some offense I perceived, my silence and door slamming would elicit a drinking binge. The very thing I was usually got angry over in the first place. When I controlled the finances, he felt trapped, though he often said he understood why I had to do it, he still felt put in his place and childlike because of it.
While you might not consider sarcasm or teasing banter abusive between friends, and you certainly would not call an accountant abusive for managing someone's money who was unable to do so, if you look at the responses...my fight or flight response, his feeling punished, trapped, and controlled...those reactions make the behavior abusive.
Looking at abusive behavior this way gave me a perspective I found helpful. I was able to focus more on how my behavior affected him over the years rather than whether it fit a particular laundry list of traits.
I made my apologies to him in the end. I'm hoping changing my behaviors through recovery will make my amends.
Great discussion thread. Thank you for posting KV!
Alice
To understand if a behavior is abusive or not one need only look for the reaction of the person on the receiving end.
What seemed to start as sarcasm and teasing banter when XABF was drinking seemed to take on a sinister tone. The hair on the back of my neck would stand up. I'd feel a fight or flight response come over me. I couldn't keep from taking his teasing to heart and when he would finally elicit tears from me, he would say I should lighten up which would anger me. His snarky comments would always send my to the other end of the house. He started to look like Jack Nicholson in The Shining to me.
When I would be angry over some offense I perceived, my silence and door slamming would elicit a drinking binge. The very thing I was usually got angry over in the first place. When I controlled the finances, he felt trapped, though he often said he understood why I had to do it, he still felt put in his place and childlike because of it.
While you might not consider sarcasm or teasing banter abusive between friends, and you certainly would not call an accountant abusive for managing someone's money who was unable to do so, if you look at the responses...my fight or flight response, his feeling punished, trapped, and controlled...those reactions make the behavior abusive.
Looking at abusive behavior this way gave me a perspective I found helpful. I was able to focus more on how my behavior affected him over the years rather than whether it fit a particular laundry list of traits.
I made my apologies to him in the end. I'm hoping changing my behaviors through recovery will make my amends.
Great discussion thread. Thank you for posting KV!
Alice
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I guess today I'm realizing how much fault I DID have in our relationship. How much of it really WAS my fault. How much MY actions really did make him a victim too.
In the absence of addiction, alcoholism, and codependence; in the absence of disease, we learn that there really is no one to blame, there really is no one at fault, and there really are no victims. When you find yourself able to refrain from pointing your finger at yourself or others, and able to hold back judgment of yourself and others, you will be able to see how much others do this and you will be grateful that you can finally see.
Keep up the good work. Keep self-reflecting with such courage. Keep thinking.
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Originally Posted by Learn2Live
Addiction and codependence mean always searching for someone to blame. Addiction and codependence mean always having to find fault with one person or another. Blaming and fault-finding are the precursors to judgment. Addiction and codependence mean there HAS to be a victim. These are ALL mechanisms of Denial.
In the absence of addiction, alcoholism, and codependence; in the absence of disease, we learn that there really is no one to blame, there really is no one at fault, and there really are no victims. When you find yourself able to refrain from pointing your finger at yourself or others, and able to hold back judgment of yourself and others, you will be able to see how much others do this and you will be grateful that you can finally see.
Keep up the good work. Keep self-reflecting with such courage. Keep thinking.
In the absence of addiction, alcoholism, and codependence; in the absence of disease, we learn that there really is no one to blame, there really is no one at fault, and there really are no victims. When you find yourself able to refrain from pointing your finger at yourself or others, and able to hold back judgment of yourself and others, you will be able to see how much others do this and you will be grateful that you can finally see.
Keep up the good work. Keep self-reflecting with such courage. Keep thinking.
Thank you L2L.
L
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I understand what you are saying, but in DV...there are victims, there are criminal assaults and attacks. We, the people, by law, have judged these things to be so and it is only moral that we do protect the victims and the judge the perpetrator.
There is criminal intimidation, harassment, stalking, battery, assault and murder.
The statistics are appalling.
The extent to which they are under-reported and uncharged are scarier still.
I appreciate all the points and nuances and sorting of responsibility here.
I am learning right along with every one else.
I just felt a need to state that there are innocent victims and there are times to judge.
DV victims are so used to being blamed for the assaults on them, that they often come to believe that.
And this confusion prevents them from protecting themselves and getting the assistance they need and deserve.
There is criminal intimidation, harassment, stalking, battery, assault and murder.
The statistics are appalling.
The extent to which they are under-reported and uncharged are scarier still.
I appreciate all the points and nuances and sorting of responsibility here.
I am learning right along with every one else.
I just felt a need to state that there are innocent victims and there are times to judge.
DV victims are so used to being blamed for the assaults on them, that they often come to believe that.
And this confusion prevents them from protecting themselves and getting the assistance they need and deserve.
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Originally Posted by liveweyerd
I just felt a need to state that there are innocent victims and there are times to judge.
L
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LOL
If I am unable to judge that I have been wronged, I will not press charges and seek relief...
my life was high enough on the pay ladder for me.
But I am not always so swift and it took me awhile to be able to sort that out.
I don't think I would be alive today...without that intervention.
If I am unable to judge that I have been wronged, I will not press charges and seek relief...
my life was high enough on the pay ladder for me.
But I am not always so swift and it took me awhile to be able to sort that out.
I don't think I would be alive today...without that intervention.
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Originally Posted by liveweyerd
LOL
If I am unable to judge that I have been wronged, I will not press charges and seek relief...
my life was high enough on the pay ladder for me.
But I am not always so swift and it took me awhile to be able to sort that out.
I don't think I would be alive today...without that intervention.
If I am unable to judge that I have been wronged, I will not press charges and seek relief...
my life was high enough on the pay ladder for me.
But I am not always so swift and it took me awhile to be able to sort that out.
I don't think I would be alive today...without that intervention.
I do understand where you are coming from. I was never physically abused, so I obviously don't understand completely. But, from what I have read and heard, part of the reason the victim doesn't seek help is the fear of being judged. Not only by the abuser, but society as a whole.
So, isn't the very same blame and judgment you are advocating on the one hand, part of the problem on the other?
L
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I do not see liveweyerd advocating blame and judgment except that which civilized societies prosecute in a court of law. In those cases, there are indeed victims, and there are indeed judgments to be made -- usually against the person who has raised his/her hand against another.
Although I do understand the nuances and the good intentions here, please be cautious - all - about making blanket statements like "there are no victims." In the case of domestic violence, that is patently untrue, and many of us have the scars to prove it.
Although I do understand the nuances and the good intentions here, please be cautious - all - about making blanket statements like "there are no victims." In the case of domestic violence, that is patently untrue, and many of us have the scars to prove it.
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Yes, it is LaTeeDa.
I don't have the answers.
I have alot of thoughts about all this, but I don't have answers.
I bit the hand of the man who had me pinned and had his hand over my mouth and nose and was pounding on the back of my head. I was going to pass out. I felt I was suffocating. He then tied me up. I very barely escaped.
When the police arrived, we were both arrested. They call it "he said, she said."
They did not include charges of criminal confinement and other appropriate charges.
The neighbor up the road a mile was a policeman, where I escaped to, and a hunting friend of the man. I was taken to the hospital in an ambulance. He had 3 stitches, for the show of it. I was punished by the law and judged by many people, because I had not left the first time I was abused.
I was 5' 4" and 100 pounds, he was a bouncer 6' 3" 170 pounds.
Life isn't fair, sometimes. Neither is society or the law, as it is applied and enforced.
My MISJUDGEMENT that the problem was his acoholism contributed to the problem very greatly.
I was very confused and received alot of confusing information in seeking help.
I wish for others to know what I did not.
For help with coping with alcoholism, contact al-anon. If you wonder about abuse, please contact your DV hotline.
I don't have the answers.
I have alot of thoughts about all this, but I don't have answers.
I bit the hand of the man who had me pinned and had his hand over my mouth and nose and was pounding on the back of my head. I was going to pass out. I felt I was suffocating. He then tied me up. I very barely escaped.
When the police arrived, we were both arrested. They call it "he said, she said."
They did not include charges of criminal confinement and other appropriate charges.
The neighbor up the road a mile was a policeman, where I escaped to, and a hunting friend of the man. I was taken to the hospital in an ambulance. He had 3 stitches, for the show of it. I was punished by the law and judged by many people, because I had not left the first time I was abused.
I was 5' 4" and 100 pounds, he was a bouncer 6' 3" 170 pounds.
Life isn't fair, sometimes. Neither is society or the law, as it is applied and enforced.
My MISJUDGEMENT that the problem was his acoholism contributed to the problem very greatly.
I was very confused and received alot of confusing information in seeking help.
I wish for others to know what I did not.
For help with coping with alcoholism, contact al-anon. If you wonder about abuse, please contact your DV hotline.
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I see where the answers to these questions depend on where you are coming from in your own experience.
When someone commits a crime against another person, there is obviously a victim as well as a perpetrator. And there are laws against it. And the blame and judgment should be administered by a court of law. (I realize this does not happen perfectly in every instance)
My thought process was revolving around the alcoholic/codependent dance. In that scenario, there really are no victims. I wanted to see myself as a victim because it gave me the self-righteous superiority to justify my unhealthy behavior. And I dished the emotional abuse right back at him. I really wasn't a victim of anything, except my own twisted thinking.
In any case, I believe judgment is best left to those whose job it is to judge, and to whatever HP you believe in.
Edit to add: When I speak of judgment, I mean judging other people, not the kind of judgment where you size up the situation and make a rational determination of what action to take.
L
When someone commits a crime against another person, there is obviously a victim as well as a perpetrator. And there are laws against it. And the blame and judgment should be administered by a court of law. (I realize this does not happen perfectly in every instance)
My thought process was revolving around the alcoholic/codependent dance. In that scenario, there really are no victims. I wanted to see myself as a victim because it gave me the self-righteous superiority to justify my unhealthy behavior. And I dished the emotional abuse right back at him. I really wasn't a victim of anything, except my own twisted thinking.
In any case, I believe judgment is best left to those whose job it is to judge, and to whatever HP you believe in.
Edit to add: When I speak of judgment, I mean judging other people, not the kind of judgment where you size up the situation and make a rational determination of what action to take.
L
Last edited by LaTeeDa; 11-09-2009 at 02:58 PM.
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Originally Posted by liveweyerd
For help with coping with alcoholism, contact al-anon. If you wonder about abuse, please contact your DV hotline.
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Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
LOL
We are on the same page!
I still don't think he is a bad person.
I think you pinned it by saying that it is the necessary judgement of acts and situations vs. judging a person, per se.
And what we, as codependents, and as abused, have in common...is the mistaken idea that we might have caused it, can control it, or cure it.
So, all the codependency traits and issues also apply to me. Mea culpa. LOL
You better believed I ranted at him. And more.
I also tried all the being sweet and being good enough.
But, as you said, I sure wish I would have been able to make the distinction and treated the abuse first.
It, like all the others, is progressive and escalates.
So, it was very easy at first and for a long time, to think that the verbal, emotional, and pyshological abuse was attributable to alcoholism.
I was a very motivated codependent! Or should I say determined?
I KNEW it was all wrong and crazy. I did not grow up around any of it.
I did become wrong and crazy.
Shaking head, whew, I still look back at that era in my life and wonder some times, who was that person that I was acting out?
So, I agree with you...that I wasn't wrong as a person..but my actions and thinking were wrong.
Same for him....to an extent...he had the right to drink all he wanted and etc.
Somewhere along there it crossed a line. I still can't say where or what that is exactly.
Y'know....we know "It is alcholism." That doesn't fix it, knowing that.
I could have people tell me regarding some of his actions, that is abuse.
I was tres confused. Abuse, yeah. He abused alcohol. He abused himself. He abused me.
On and on and on.
He has a disease. He has psychological problems.
He is charming. He is intelligent. He is persuasive. He is troubled. He is....
I was trying to cope. In all the wrong ways. But I was doing the best that I could perceive.
I am so grateful and glad that with treatment...I have come out on the other side.
Unfortunately, he has not.
And he would not be a safe person for me to be around.
For two very good reasons.
Either one of them is enough by itself.
The one, that I did not understand nor foresee...could have cost me my life.
It is a very dangerous combo!
We are on the same page!
I still don't think he is a bad person.
I think you pinned it by saying that it is the necessary judgement of acts and situations vs. judging a person, per se.
And what we, as codependents, and as abused, have in common...is the mistaken idea that we might have caused it, can control it, or cure it.
So, all the codependency traits and issues also apply to me. Mea culpa. LOL
You better believed I ranted at him. And more.
I also tried all the being sweet and being good enough.
But, as you said, I sure wish I would have been able to make the distinction and treated the abuse first.
It, like all the others, is progressive and escalates.
So, it was very easy at first and for a long time, to think that the verbal, emotional, and pyshological abuse was attributable to alcoholism.
I was a very motivated codependent! Or should I say determined?
I KNEW it was all wrong and crazy. I did not grow up around any of it.
I did become wrong and crazy.
Shaking head, whew, I still look back at that era in my life and wonder some times, who was that person that I was acting out?
So, I agree with you...that I wasn't wrong as a person..but my actions and thinking were wrong.
Same for him....to an extent...he had the right to drink all he wanted and etc.
Somewhere along there it crossed a line. I still can't say where or what that is exactly.
Y'know....we know "It is alcholism." That doesn't fix it, knowing that.
I could have people tell me regarding some of his actions, that is abuse.
I was tres confused. Abuse, yeah. He abused alcohol. He abused himself. He abused me.
On and on and on.
He has a disease. He has psychological problems.
He is charming. He is intelligent. He is persuasive. He is troubled. He is....
I was trying to cope. In all the wrong ways. But I was doing the best that I could perceive.
I am so grateful and glad that with treatment...I have come out on the other side.
Unfortunately, he has not.
And he would not be a safe person for me to be around.
For two very good reasons.
Either one of them is enough by itself.
The one, that I did not understand nor foresee...could have cost me my life.
It is a very dangerous combo!
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 50
I'm a recovering alcoholic. Sober almost 11 months and I hope no one will mind me posting here.
First of all I don't think protecting yourself from physical injury is EVER abuse! If someone is attacking you or someone else (whether they are alcoholic or not) you have every right to do whatever is necessary to remain safe. So when I say abusive I am not talking about that at all.
I think behaviors become abusive when you do them to control, manipulate, blame, or get your way. Even when you have reasons, it's still abusive. I think any abuser probably has a REASON. That doesn't make it right, but I'm sure in their own mind they feel justified... Please understand I am NOT saying they are right, just that they are probably not doing it just to be hurting someone. But to justify their own guilt, or protect the perception they have of their self. Does that make sense? Sorry I have a hard time putting my thoughts into words sometimes.
I can only speak for myself, but I am not proud of the way I treated my husband while I was drinking. I was very emotionally and verbally abusive. At the time, I felt justified because he was trying to take away the very thing I thought I could not live without and I didn't see why he thought it was such a problem. I really thought he was over reacting... god, I was so stupid and just awful and very abusive. And so was he
We got caught up in the whole blame game. I resented him trying to control me, and treating me like a child and he resented my unwillingness to grow up and put him and our marriage above my own selfish needs... we were both right in ways, and also very wrong. I am trying very hard to be honest with myself and own up to the things I've done, but it is hard to take a really close look at yourself and not be able to blame someone else. I think that it has been just as hard for him to do as me. Maybe even harder for him, because I really did give him some very good reasons to blame me and he has a lot of anger. There was a lot of resentments and hurt on both sides we are slowly working through it and I want more than anything to make up for the last 14 years. Anyway, I don't usually post and feel kind of weird posting in the F&F forum, but this thread just really got to me. I don't think blaming yourself is any more productive than blaming the alcoholic.... blame really doesn't do anything but keep you stuck, in my opinion. I think the key to recovery is taking an HONEST look at YOUR actions, accepting what YOU have done wrong, forgiving yourself for them and DOING everything you can to never repeat them. I think that is what we all have to do no matter whether we are the alcoholic or the family member. It isn't easy to do.
I hope none of that comes across as defending an alcoholics abuse, because that was NOT my intention. I am pretty new still at this recovery thing, but I think this time, I really get it. It isn't about blaming anyone (myself or others) it is about me becoming the kind of person I want to be.
I also would just like to say thank you to all of you. I have really learned a lot by reading the F&F forum. I hope I haven't said anything to offend any of you because, I really didn't mean to do that.
:ghug2
Last edited by exquisitered; 11-10-2009 at 10:26 AM.
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Such helpful and insightful conversation on this thread. Thanks.
Just for the record, when I previously wrote, "there really are no victims" I did not mean in the context of ACTUAL victims, such as victims of rape, child abuse, etc. I meant that there are no victims in the context of what I understood KV816 was saying; that she felt her actions made her husband into a victim.
I don't find it helpful to think in terms of victimization. Oftentimes we are people who grew up in addicted families and regardless of whether or not there was any abuse or lawbreaking, we grow up believing we are victims. Or we become so enmeshed in the lives and the sickness of an addicted person for so long, that we begin to take on a victim mentality, even in the absence of socially-defined victimization. We soak up the alcoholic's way of thinking, that is: "I am the victim of this OTHER PERSON'S behavior. Therefore, I have every right to drink." I witnessed my father doing this exact thing this weekend. It was so sad. The victim mentality I developed growing up prevented me for so many DECADES to see how GREAT I had it, how healthy things were, especially compared to so many others in this world who are so much less fortunate than me. I just couldn't see it. ...Till now that is...
I do still catch myself thinking I am being victimized in some relationships. I have learned that thinking this way does not help me feel better or get along with others better. Especially in relationships that are very important to me or that can affect my daily life.
I still actively search for new perspectives on things that help me to redefine myself. This never stops. I re-examine the words I use to describe my experiences; language is so very important in how we experience and react to our worlds (And I'm sure this word-smithing annoys some folks on SR). I never want to feell like a victim because doing so leaves me at the mercy of everyone and everything else. I refuse to be a victim even concerning matters in which I clearly was a "victim," according to the social definition of the word, such as when I was date-raped.
I am grateful that I have a keen awareness of myself, including my behaviors, thought processes, preferences, proclivities, etc. It helps me that I am so honest with myself, even brutally so sometimes. Being conscious and aware of my self in this manner establishes my place in this world, and my understanding of why other people behave the way they do, is much clearer to me. This helps keep the anxiety at bay.
Just for the record, when I previously wrote, "there really are no victims" I did not mean in the context of ACTUAL victims, such as victims of rape, child abuse, etc. I meant that there are no victims in the context of what I understood KV816 was saying; that she felt her actions made her husband into a victim.
I don't find it helpful to think in terms of victimization. Oftentimes we are people who grew up in addicted families and regardless of whether or not there was any abuse or lawbreaking, we grow up believing we are victims. Or we become so enmeshed in the lives and the sickness of an addicted person for so long, that we begin to take on a victim mentality, even in the absence of socially-defined victimization. We soak up the alcoholic's way of thinking, that is: "I am the victim of this OTHER PERSON'S behavior. Therefore, I have every right to drink." I witnessed my father doing this exact thing this weekend. It was so sad. The victim mentality I developed growing up prevented me for so many DECADES to see how GREAT I had it, how healthy things were, especially compared to so many others in this world who are so much less fortunate than me. I just couldn't see it. ...Till now that is...
I do still catch myself thinking I am being victimized in some relationships. I have learned that thinking this way does not help me feel better or get along with others better. Especially in relationships that are very important to me or that can affect my daily life.
I still actively search for new perspectives on things that help me to redefine myself. This never stops. I re-examine the words I use to describe my experiences; language is so very important in how we experience and react to our worlds (And I'm sure this word-smithing annoys some folks on SR). I never want to feell like a victim because doing so leaves me at the mercy of everyone and everything else. I refuse to be a victim even concerning matters in which I clearly was a "victim," according to the social definition of the word, such as when I was date-raped.
I am grateful that I have a keen awareness of myself, including my behaviors, thought processes, preferences, proclivities, etc. It helps me that I am so honest with myself, even brutally so sometimes. Being conscious and aware of my self in this manner establishes my place in this world, and my understanding of why other people behave the way they do, is much clearer to me. This helps keep the anxiety at bay.
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