whyamistaying

I have been trying not to be home when he is home and not engaging when he has been drinking (every day). When he blames me and talks about himself, I just ignore it or change the subject.

My question is though, if he lies to my face (which he says he only lies about drinking because he has a disease)...and I don't engage, isn't that showing him it is okay to lie to me?

Still Waters

No. It's showing him that you will no longer play his game.

ElegantlyWasted

Second that. Don't play. If you believe that Alcoholism is a Disease (I Do), his treatment of his disease is only making it worse. Does he have a program? A Disease needs treatment, AA, CBT, SMART, private and group sessions, logging in here.

whyamistaying

No he doesn't have a program. What I mean is that by not engaging even though he has lied straight to my face or stole from house, but doing nothing else but not engaging, isn't that showing him it is okay?

Ugh. That isn't coming out right. I'm trying to say just not engaging doesn't make me feel any better. I wouldn't let complete strangers get away with lying to me. There are no consequences for his actions from me.

Daisy30

I think I get what your saying.

My first thought is, if you say something what do you hope to gain? He is still going to lie. Trust me he realizes you stopped playing the game. It is probably pretty fustrating for him. When my AH couldn't get me to react anymore he tried to argue with dd.

I do remember having the same feelings you do about it. Like he was getting away with something. I think as I continued to learn and grow I was able to see things differently

Now, what you can do is set up a boundary. If he is taking money, move it some where else. If he is lying about his whereabouts, don't ask any more.

Daisy30

I just wanted to add, that when you hand his disease back to him (like you are doing by not engaging) he then it is his and only his to deal with.

think of the lying and stealing as symptoms of the disease

Linkmeister

My RABF would lie to me constantly about his drinking, hide bottles and once I stopped playing his games, stopped engaging him, walked away when he tried to argue, ignored him when he came home after drinking - he got more and more frustrated and angry with me because I refused to play along.

It was hard and there were so many times I resisted the temptation to be drawn back into his games but in the end, it made me feel better that I could detach, no longer play those games and let him claim his disease as his own, let him face the consequences of letting his disease go untreated and help me to feel better about myself for doing this.

In the end, my detachment, my refusal to engage in his behaviour came close to costing him our relationship-it led him to being homeless as I refused to let him back into our home - after a particularly bad weekend where there was arguing, verbal abuse, threats and finally 2 visits from the police, and my total detachment from his disease - he sought treatment through AA and has been sober 55 days.

Don't get me wrong-it has not been easy-there have been good and bad days and it's early on for both of us but my detachment, disengagement or whatever you want to call it made his disease and the consequences his own to face up to. Even now when he is having a bad day, is having trouble dealing with stress in new ways, I still detach - while I listen to what he is saying, I let him deal with these issues on his own while I forge ahead with my recovery.

whyamistaying

Thank you for putting "better" words to what I was saying. Yes, like he is getting away with it. Can you expand on how you helped to see this situation differently?

For the money, he gets $60/week and we buy the train ticket ahead of time. So if he drinks the $60 or does whatever. Not my problem. But then on Saturday, he starts cleaning the house and collects any lose change or goes through the car and gets lose change which buys him enough beer to drink that day.

The lying isn't about his whereabouts, it is about money. He takes $20 to play golf and comes back with $10 even though my dad paid for it. Lies straight to my face that he used the money to buy water and soda.

I am still enabling on one thing...driving him to the train in the mornings and picking him up at the train....about 15 minutes away. I stopped and then he said he would quit his job and not work because he isn't riding his bike to the train. Then didn't come home. His job is my weak spot.

whyamistaying

Just wanted to add....thank you for saying he realizes I am not playing the game. I didn't seem like it and it seems futile at times. I pray that you're right that he sees the gig is up.

heavenlyone

I so don't buy the "disease" thing. I have an auto-immune disease and get really ill (and he never, ever supports me...he doesn't really he know what my illness is called) and I feel quite sickened when I hear alcholics talking about it as a disease. I just think it's a great avenue for them to take to plead "not guilty" with their drinking and all the other crap they do which goes with it.

transformyself

This is a great thread. Thanks

Still Waters

I know how hard it is to disengage. Blatant lies are difficult to let pass.

"When I was in nursing school.." You NEVER WENT TO NURSING SCHOOL!!!!

But confronting them with it, or even remarking on it has never gained me a thing.

whyamistaying

My AH is a great liar. Before Al Anon, I would engage. Now I try to detach, but I have to do it physically and go upstairs or leave with the kids.

What got me thinkign about this, is when my AH lies to others they cut him off. Have nothing to do with him because lying isn't acceptable. So, it got me thinking about my response and how maybe I'm sending the message that it is okay to lie to me.

Anyways, thanks for reminding me. If I confront, even when sober, it will just happen the next day.

Still Waters

Others aren't entangled like you are. Kids, home, marriage. Cutting him off isn't really an option when you live together.

Well, it IS, but it's not a good option.

Daisy30

I will try to put it into words the best I can

When I think about it, I am not really sure of the order all of things took place. But they all did and it led to my serenity.

I first had to accept that I was powerless over alcohol
When my AH lies to me I don't respond. I know it is a lie, he knows it is a lie and I came to realize that badgering him to tell me the truth (which never happened) wasn't worth it.
In the beginning I really had to repeat to myself, you "can't control it".
I had to accept that my husband is an alcoholic and alcohlics lie. I had to say that over and over in my head too.

It's like brining a puppy home and expecting it to use a litter box....it doesn't happen
puppies behave like puppies, cats behave like cats, and alcoholics behave like alcoholics.
I can't make the puppy be a cat any more than I make an alcoholic act/think like a sober person.
If you view being lied to as unacceptable behavior, then I would set up a boundary to keep your serenity in check.

ex. If you lie to me, I will _____________. You have to decide what goes in that blank. I will leave the room, change the subject, etc.

Also, you have already set up a boundary that he is only allowed a certain amount of money a week. Great! Now, you cannot control what he does with that money, or how he finds the rest of his money to support his disease. Alcoholics drink. even if you gave him $0 he would still find a way to get beer money.

If you are feeling uncomfortable giving him rides to the train station, stop. He will figure out an alternative way to get there. When my next door neighbor got his 4th DUI his wife sold his car and refused to give him rides to work. He figured it out.

I hope this helps (((hugs)))

whyamistaying

Thanks Daisy30. A boundary for lying...hmm...I guess I haven't accepted that alcoholics lie. Lying is a big deal because it means there is no trust in our marriage. That sounds silly, but I keep thinking to the future (which I'm not supposed to) and thinking what the heck kind of marriage is this with the constant lies.

Okay...maybe I will type something about lying and put it in on refrig too. So don't believe anything he says. He lies. That is sad.

I have been doing good on money. He gets his $60 and if he borrows money from friends, I don't pay it. He borrowed $100 and I refused to pay. I told him to sell his tools. He tried for weeks to pound me to give in and I didn't. Woo hoo. He sold his generator.

Okay, back to lying....I will print something out on my refrigerator.

Thanks.

MissFixit

Hi,

The no trust thing in a relationship is a big thing isn't it? Since dealing with my exabf, I have expanded my no lies policy to include everyone I know. You lie, I detach. Period, end of story. For me a relaitonship without trust isn't a relationship that I want anything to do with.

As a result my peers have been weeded out a bit, but the folks I choose to associate with are really stellar people. I wish that I had made this commitment to myself decades ago. Wish I had tolerated less BS and made fewer exceptions and excuses for folks. It is hard to do it at first, but easier as time goes on. Also, I think people have a new respect for you and the ones you distance yourself from you can't really trust anyway.

JenT1968

He KNOWS that lying is unnacceptable,
he had parents, siblings, teachers, friends at school, children's books, television, the church (or whichever faith was introduced to him), the rules at work, colleagues, the law of the land, blah, blah blah, all banging on about how lying is wrong.

he has NOT got to adulthood without tripping over the notion that lying is unacceptable. In addition to which, you have already told him umpteen times, more times won't make him get it more.

HE KNOWS, he just doesn't care enough to stop the things that (in his eyes) necessitate the lying.

absolutely

not to me it doesn't. My H lies all the time, therefore I don't trust him: those are the consequences. I chose not to live with someone I can't trust, that is my path.
I could confront him, but I have learned that for me all that happened was I was confronted with more lies, and ugly scenes, words, events and actions twisted so that I came out of any encounter blamed for his lying, and left doubting myself, then feeling ashamed, rinse and repeat.

perhaps instead think about what sort of marriage is it now with the constant lies?