FindingPeace1

Well, team, I will start by saying I request you be very, very gentle with me right now.
I decided to talk to him tonight, which I did. I told him I loved him and I have felt so so taken care of since we have moved here.
But? he said.
But, this is what I know:
* I know there were 16 bottles in the recycling from 1 week
* I know you have a hidden stash of alcohol in the garage
* I know you had a hidden stash in our last house
* I know there was alcohol in a to go coffee cup last week
* I know you are not drinking in front of me so you are drinking in secret.
* I know you are lying about it
I am concerned about your health and our relationship and I don't think I can have kids until we work those things out with couples therapy or rehab or something similar.
He did everything you said - TEXTBOOK RESPONSE. He quacked first - nickle and dimed each thing. Gave reasons why, minimized. Told me there were no clean cups. Told me he knew I didn't like it so he hid it to make ME feel better. blah blah blah.
He got angry. F*** me. Shut up! How dare I accuse? How dare I judge? How dare I micromanage? He turned it around and called out this and that that I did that were unhealthy, but HE wasn't judging...I don't love him, treating him that way isn't love! I probably want to get out! I set it up to get out! So it was a no win! Fine! You're right, he said, I am an a**hole! Get OUT! There's the door.
I said I wouldn't. That I loved him. I was suggesting we work through it.
He cried. Told me he was depressed. That all he had done was love me. He had tried so hard to do everything/be everything for me and I do this to him. Maybe it was 5 or 10 bottles too much, but he had reasons. It didn't mean he was an addict. That just ONCE he had put wine in a coffee cup and driven to the post office - JUST the post office. Just once. It may have been inappropriate, but so what? That didn't mean anything! ( a lie exposed - for once! Of course it was being USED on me)
He refused to go to therapy. He doesn't DO that. He said he had been forced to go to therapy at 16 when his mom *wrongly* thought he had an eating disorder. (He was just skinny...and depressed!) He HATED that his mom didn't trust him. He hated the therapist. Besides EVERY relationship he has ever had has ended this way.
I was floored. I admit, ex relationships is one of those monsters I am not allowed to discuss. So I don't know the circumstances of any of them, except they got ugly at the end, I think. Every relationship? Wow.
I asked, why do you think? (Like HELLO! EVERY ONE? Maybe its time to WAKE UP and stop telling yourself the universe is just a meanie and giving you B's for partners - maybe its you?)
Fine, I'll cut back, he said. No, that's not it, I said.
Fine, I'll quit, he said. That's not IT, I said. It's about your deception and your health.
He changed the subject. I don't DO ultimatums! I have been through this! It doesn't work!
I asked what happened.
He said he couldn't remember. (ah hem)
He began packing.
I did ask him twice if he thought his drinking was a problem. He paused each time before saying no.
I said, never? You have never thought your drinking was a problem (I know from his sister that they had a heart to heart years ago about how they were both concerned about eachother and themselves drinking, but he doesn't know I know that). Never, he said.
He said he couldn't believe I just dumped this on him without any heart. That I couldn't trust him and I thought he was a jerk (I never said that) and he couldn't bear a relationship like that. It would never change.
I said it would if I would and he would. If he would stop medicating depression with alcohol and be honest and if I learned to trust.
He got so angry he marched out and slammed the door and drove away.

I am left breathless.

A week ago I found the bottles.
He is so stubborn, I am not sure he will return.
I feel in shock. Numb. Happy to have said it - gotten it out there. Happy to have y'all. Numb. Knowing he will do what he can do and I can't control it. Trying to accept it. Feeling full of loving compassion for his state. Feeling sad. Speechless. Headache.

24Years

I'm so sorry for what you went through, and greatful that you were able to see the *hidden* part. I had posted my story on your other thread. I was praying for you, ((((hugs)))), and I will continue to pray for your peace and strength amongst the mixed emotions that occur during times like this.

FindingPeace1

'I think you need to decide whether or not this is a deal breaker. You know he's drinking and you know he's lying and covering it up. You need to decide whether you can live with it. And you need to stop setting him up to lie.

YOU CAN NOT MAKE HIM QUIT. So you either have to surrender to it and live with it or you have to take the next step to get out of the marriage.

You can not make him quit. I can not stress this enough. The more you confront him, the more you nag him, the more you try to talk to him about it, the more you try to fix this, the worse the lying will get.

If you ask him whether he is drinking, you are setting him up to lie to you. you KNOW he is drinking - why are you asking him? If you want to stay with him then you need to stop trying to catch him in a lie over it. If you want to stay with him, you need to accept that his alcohol consumption is a part of your life. If you can't accept that, or if you can't accept what alcohol makes him do (i.e. he gets mean, or whatever) then start to get out.

Read Codependent No More and act on it. You hold all the cards here. It's your decision. It's really not up to him. "
above quote from redux from another post.
damn. but I guess I am sliding slowly over toward the realization that I can't hang with this.

thanks 24years.

FindingPeace1

Quotes from Excuses Alcoholics Make Stickie that eerily apply:

Problem? WHAT problem?

I'm not THAT bad!

It wasn't my fault or It's not the way it looks!

All I want is a little relief!

Nobody knows the trouble I've seen!

You're not so pure yourself!


I HAVE to drink (or drug) to drown my sorrows!


Nobody is going to tell ME what to do!

Look at all I have done for you! or This is the thanks I get!


I'll handle it myself!
wow.

FindingPeace1

So yes, it is 12:30 am. I am reading posts; can't sleep. Just read Being Rejected by the Reject and I am SO PROUD of myself.
I was "abandoned" once. I was blown away, surprised and thought I would die with pain. I asked why so many times, tried to get him back, blah blah blah.
This time around I KNOW its not about me and it is okay, however it turns out. If he can not cope with himself, it is as it must be.

bookwyrm

I feel your pain - I was there at one point too. I wish there was something I could do to help. I'm glad you went into the conversation prepared - I was totally blindsided by my STBXAH. Take extra care of yourself today and know that I'm thinking about you. :ghug3

whereisthisgoin

I think you did a wonderful job in your conversation. Even though it hurts, I hope you feel better having identified the issue with your BF. You've been asking a lot of good questions here and I have been following your posts - learning a lot along the way.

My AH and I had "the talk" 3 months ago. We are in a weird place, but this board sure helps to sort it out. I had moments of thinking I was insane. It's nice to come here and learn that this is normal and learn how to hear the "quack, quack, quack" rather than try to process the nuttiness they throw at you.

Hang in there and be good to yourself today. What you did was difficult but I do believe knowledge in the reality of the situation has to be good.

catlovermi

Wifeofadrinker,

So, you just got the classic assault whacked-upside-the-head-it's-YOUR-friggen'-fault-not-mine back from your addicted loved one. It's part of the rollercoaster of addiction that is talked about here, where there are higher-than-high incredible fantasy moments with them, and then moments like these where the addict emerges, uncloaked, to protect its addiction. There IS a beast underneath every addict, regardless the semantics you want to use to describe it. That beast causes people who purport to love us to lie, abandon, abuse, neglect, etc. It's a package deal with an addict.

I'm sorry this hurts so much and is so shocking to the system, but the more you read around here, you'll see that IT'S NOT PERSONAL. Addicts behave in almost scripted manners - they are surprisingly predictable. They do these things to protect their addictive system: to keep their pipeline to substances open and to keep their enablers toeing the line.

Once you start to interrupt the system, and threaten a part of it, they change gears and go on the offensive.

Your job is to focus on you. What do you want from your one precious lifespan? What genetics would you want your precious someday children to have? What type of home would you want for them? What do you deserve in a partner? What do they deserve for parents?

I'm sorry this hurts so much, like a shattered mirror of the heart and soul.

Hugs to you,

CLMI

hps

Sorry about what you're going through. When I was a practicing alcoholic, I was always lying about drinking, and this concerned my wife as much as the drinking. But at least for me, clearing up the drinking also cleared up the lying. Good luck...

MissFixit

Hey there,

Hugs to you!

Congratulations on being honest with your AH. I know talking about alcohol and its consequences can be a scary thing to do with an addict. I heard similar responses at various times in my relationship with my exabf. I remember the shock and guilt that I felt. I feel for you.

I was told to stay strong and it will get easier to do that...with time. Focus on you and what you need from this life. He is the only one who can help himself no matter how much you want to help him.

HUgs

skid650

be strong . . . you are smart and learning a lot.

love yourself and take care of yourself.

his alcohol problem and other problems are not a reflection on you.

he has issues which precipitate his drinking. it's the issues he needs to solve, but he sounds unwilling/afraid to face his demons.

he cannot truly love you yet, because he does not love himself . . . if he did, he would do anything to exorcise the demons that drive him to drink.

maybe someday he will be brave enough, fed up enough, desperate enough to decide to get help, but it is something only he can decide.

good luck to you, and good strength.

skid

honoryourself

Hang in there wife, it is good you knew what to expect after reading on here.
Take it one day at a time for now, and do something for yourself!
You should start thinking about your choices and what you want and need in your life. You don't need to make a decision immediately but you can if you want. It just helps to start the thought process.. I know for me it took a LOT of reading and thinking to start wrapping my head around the idea that this may not be a 'forever' marriage. I'm still not ready to make my decision but at least I have more information and am not as afraid as before, which means my decisions are more rational and less reactive. Good luck to you!!

nodaybut2day

wow, you did wonderfully. It sounds like you didn't lose your cool and saw through the quacking.

As MissFixit suggested, now it the time to focus on yourself. What do you want? How do you feel? What would you like to do? Are you taking the time to sleep, eat and hydrate yourself well?

It'll be tough because you'll want to worry about him, what he's doing, where he's going to be, what he'll say, when he's coming home, etc etc. Don't. Turn that hyperfocus WAAAAY back around and point it at you. It's THE MOST liberating thing ever.

I still fight to do it everyday, because my bad codie habits tend to make me obssess about my STBX, but when I realize what I'm doing and just focus on ME, there's this audible easing inside my body, like a breath I'd been holding, that lets go and suddenly I'm significantly lighter (like, 180-190 lbs lighter!).

Congrats!

Still Waters

You're light years ahead of where I was at that point wifeofadrinker. I didn't know about the script, so I just thought I sucked and that I was the problem, and that I was insane.

transformyself

Amazing! I"ve had that conversation hundreds of times with my AH. For me, unfortunatly, he would pull out the "I"m leaving/this is the end/this is over/I'm divorcing you" rage and I would cry. But I think that's because he had a 5 month affair, living with the woman down the street and then came home. I rolled all my fear into him going back to her.

But you didn't budge or take the bait. That's amazing and wonderful. I'm sure you're exhausted, but you've done all you can. Spoke your truth without taking the bait.

I hope you're doing well today.

naive

hi wife of a drinker-

your half of the conversation sounds sane, caring and honest.

he is doing exactly what addicts do...they protect their first love, the drink.

they really are skilled at turning everything around to be your fault. i'm glad you are not buying into it. mine said i drove him to the drink (he had been drinking heavy for 15 years before he even met me)...he said the loss of his children made him drink (he drank before they were even born)...

i left him 8 months ago.

for myself, i had to face my own denial of the extent of the problem. of course, how can we know the extent when they lie and hide so well?

i think you are in for a ride in the next few days/weeks.

here's what normally happens:

1. the alcoholic does what they do when they are upset: they go on a drinking binge.

2. then, they start calling their enabler, scared to loose them.

3. they begin to point out all of your faults, blaming you for the drinking.

4. if this doesn't work in re-securing their enabler, they shift tactics and pledge undying love.

5. when this doesn't work, they huff off and drink heavily

6. then starts the incessant phone calls, texting, emailing

7. depending on how the enabler responds to this, the addict will perhaps quit drinking for a while, to prove that they do not have a problem

8. once things settle down and they have re-secured their enabler by abstaining, they start drinking again. this time, though, they hide it even more. more lies but more covert this time, as they know that we are going to leave

9. more blame, more quacking, more emotional unavailablity. we call this a dry drunk, one who is not drinking but not in recovery.

10. depending on how we behave, they might take a lover at this stage, as they are not getting enabled by us any longer and need to have a new person who doesn't yet know they are an addict.

11. as we enter our recovery, the addict becomes more and more threatened. normally how they deal with this is more drinking. we, no longer having the wool pulled over our eyes, stand our new found ground.

12. addict becomes more threatened, their behavior becomes more volatile, they leave or we leave and then starts the incessant phone calls, begging, pleading.

alcoholism is a progressive disease. it gets worse. in my opinion, the only solution is if the alcoholic admits they have a problem and seeks help. if he seeks help only to keep you, he won't make it. he has to be truly finished with alcohol himself, for himself. this means he has to hit his bottom, whatever that is for him.

the best way for you to love him is to get out of the way. all your love in your heart cannot save him from alcoholism. in fact, all we do is enable them to keep drinking by giving them a safe place to land. remove this, and they might see that they have a problem, and then seek help.

you are wise to seek help here for yourself. your job now is to focus on you, to recover from the lies and abuse of trust.

i am in the same situation, as there is no alanon in my small town. the good people here recommended that i go to the AA group as a substitute. there, i found people who understood alcoholism and could help me to understand also. perhaps there is an AA group in your town too?

naive

transformyself

Well that pretty much sums or my life with my AH. Thanks Naive. It almost made me sad, miss the stage where he is pursuing me, afraid to be left alone. That's the tricky part, how I stayed in denial. "See? He loves me after all." Crumbs. Only crumbs.

FindingPeace1

I'll tell you what - I NEVER would have believed it if I hadn't read it here.
Shock and dismay. Reeling. Sad. Confused.
Bargaining.
Thanks, everyone, and thanks for the heads up, naive!!
I ate dinner last night, that's a plus.
Not enough sleep or water. I'll work on those things today.
When he started to pack, I was able to see it for the melodrama that it was. I knew my part was on my knees, in tears, begging him to stay. Nope, I said. You can't control him. Your job is to breath. Like on board said that I read last night: you can't set a boundary and comfort, too. So I just sat and breathed in. Then out.
I could see it was out of my hands, but also his, you know. He was so scared and confronted all he could do was all this.
That gave me deep compassion for him and me.
The thing is, I don't belong here without him. I have no job. His job is here...so I recognize I can't stay if he *REALLY* isn't going to deal with all this.
I have lots of loving friends and family I could stay with, so that's not a problem. I could be working next week. No problem. I have a little, but enough, money in savings to get by for now.
I don't want to leave now, if he is returning. But if he refuses to return (he muttered something about paying 6 months rent for me remotely as he left), I want to let him have his space. (The bag he packed wasn't that big) I can hear y'all saying not to take care of him, but I will - not to the detriment of me - because he is my husband and I love him. Really just because I love him.
So, I guess I will self nurture and journal till Monday and then pack for a friend's house for awhile to sort myself. I'll have to figure out where...there's a number that would love to see me. I'm just not sure the best place for me to process myself. I'll work on that.
All along we have known there is an amazing life with kids, just as there could be without. I know that is the same for singleness, although I don't have that knowledge in my gut the way I do for the other. I can build that.
I was a park ranger before this. Naturalist. With nature as your HP, that's a good place to go to. So that part of a maybe future gives me a little sparkle.
We were working towards permanent work in the parks together, but I still get to have my dream, regardless of what happens, so that's nice.
I am not yet in grief. Maybe because he might come back and I need to be ready. It took something to stay, as a friend said once, with one foot outside (meaning you are listening and speaking but trying to stay enough objective and grounded not to get sucked in). I did a good job, but I fear if I lose it and he comes back, I'd be in a pickle.
Maybe because its so vulnerable and I don't want to be so raw if he could come back. I don't want to share that with him right now. I don't feel safe (emotionally).
WTF! Know what I mean???? WTF!
Again, I wouldn't have believed it if not for this board.

naive

you're welcome, transform myself.

and yes, it is indeed the tricky part when they say everything that we long to hear. for myself, i just play it all the way through.

is it love to lie to a loyal partner?
is it love to take a lover behind my back?
is it love to nitpick about my defects of character, when i am very willing to have such exposed to me, but in a healthy way?
is it love to loose our home due to financial irresponsibility?
is it love to call me at 3am, drunk, when i am sleeping?
is it love to put me in danger?

transformyself

Girl, I LOVE your way of dealing with this. So often I resort to anger when detaching. I am at my best when I'm detached with compassion.

Ultimatley, it is out of our hands. They are. Their recovery, their pain and terrorized fleeing from confronting denial. My AH cheated over and over again and verbally and emotionally abused me, so my compassion is hard to find. First and foremost I have to protect myself.

But you've got it down. You're a shining example to me.